Digital nomad, online workers.. Permission !

[Soutpeel]

And I am sure if there was a system in place that was crystal clear with a visa to boot, many people would not mind paying the tax

even at 30-35% tax ?

lets face facts shall we, Thailand will never offer an "on liner" type visa without it being attached to some form of legal entity/person, but let say hypothetically they did do you really think they would start handing out visa's just because someone has a laptop, the current push is to close visa loop holes, and creating an "on liner" visa would create another loop hole, the fact is without some form of legal structure/entity in place here would be no control over running an on line business, therefore it will never happen.

[Soutpeel]

(though stay for 7 years and you can become one - that's international law).

My taxes are not a "meagre contribution"; based on Thailand's tax rates - I'd be kicking in 100-200K Baht a month in income tax. That's more than most Thais will contribute in their whole lives in tax. You can bet I want something back for my investment in Thailand at that point.

Whats international law ?

I am still waiting for you to answer my previous question as to what the gross or net salaries are for senior farang managers at at MNC's in Thailand ?

if by your calculations you would be kicking in THB 200k/m in income tax in Thailand then your a fool and need to get a better accountant...

[monk213]

And I am sure if there was a system in place that was crystal clear with a visa to boot, many people would not mind paying the tax

even at 30-35% tax ?

lets face facts shall we, Thailand will never offer an "on liner" type visa without it being attached to some form of legal entity/person, but let say hypothetically they did do you really think they would start handing out visa's just because someone has a laptop, the current push is to close visa loop holes, and creating an "on liner" visa would create another loop hole, the fact is without some form of legal structure/entity in place here would be no control over running an on line business, therefore it will never happen.

I would suggest proof of experience in actual work, a degree in relevant industry and some form of contract. There has to be a middle way, maybe the Thai gov knows all about this and has decided to leave it be because they know how much income it brings to their economy, and the tax etc may scare some off, who knows. But in reality, even with your all o mighty Junta leader now PM, you aren't going to catch people working online who know what they are doing.

[Soutpeel]

Since when have farang ever had a say in the laws and haggled with the powers that be?

and why should a farang have a say in the laws of Thailand, if one is not a citizen or PR of Thailand ?

oh I forgot your a lilly white farang and you demand your rights,

"haggled with he powers that be" ... ....who do you actually think you are ?

[Time Traveller]

I don't think the opinion from one immigration department official means anything. It's the Labor Depart that determines what work is and whether work permit is required.

[Time Traveller]

I don't think the opinion from one immigration department official means anything. It's the Labor Depart that determines what work is and whether work permit is required.

[Soutpeel]

maybe the Thai gov knows all about this and has decided to leave it be because they know how much income it brings to their economy, and the tax etc may scare some off, who knows. But in reality, even with your all o mighty Junta leader now PM, you aren't going to catch people working online who know what they are doing.

or maybe thay have decided to leave it alone as it wastes man power/resources investigating and its much easier catching people who dont have the right visa's/ visa run all time at the borders and not letting them back into the country, granted it will not get all of them, but ones suspects it catch many out...

"There has to be a middle way"....why should there be? the farang on liners in Thailand are not in position to negotiate anything, "a middle way" infers give and take, the Thai goverment doesn have to give anything, its their country, they dictate how the rules will be written

Edited August 21, 2014 by Soutpeel

[anon676545345]

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can you please explain for me how anybody participating in any of the above examples will be contributing to Thailand?

Are you being serious? They live in Thailand, ok, following so far? They have custom from across the world via the internetz, often Western who pay them money AKA currency. They then go out and dispose of said currency into the economy, the money has come from abroad and was used to buy a service online, and ends up in the hands of the Thai's, khao jai na krup?

Ah, I see. The only contribution to Thailand is spending money on themselves. A little contribution to the local market. Regardless of how many customers around the world had, they would contribute no more than a regular tourist.

Otherwise, why don't they start a business in the first place?

Yet they would expect a visa for doing this? Methinks you overvalue the digital nomad. By lots....................

Mi khao jai krup

This is really a mute point most westerners who reside here weather retired, married or working online contribute in the same way by bringing income in from abroad and using it to finance their lifestyle in Thailand, pay rent, support their families or parteners etc.

I don't think it is a moot point at all.

My question is what makes them any different than a normal person under 50 who wants to stay in Thailand for a long period?

This is what I don't get. All you would be doing is creating another loophole for whoever wanted to class themselves as a digital nomad.

You all need to join the real world for a while, IMHO.

I'm not sure anyone implied there was any difference to someone under 50 who wants to reside in Thailand, I'm under 50 and reside here so that covers me. I'm quite happy using tourist and ED visas. I chose to move here for pretty much the same reasons everyone else did where I draw my income from is irrelevant I cover my costs have a visa and am not breaking any laws by plugging my laptop in for a few hours a day. I have absolutely no interest in how anyone else conducts their affairs or earns a living.

[Christie Paul]

The Thai oligarchy have so far been unable to modify their business model, which is best described as something between feudalism, nepotism and protection of the status quo. To their credit they have protected the country from colonial invaders and banker warmongers. So their not all bad.

But...

Their system has relied upon a seriously dumbed down and stratified population. Rote learning, the abhorrence of critical thought and creativity are the parameters of the educational and social system. Which is rather lovely for those who can enjoy it - and through honour, obligation, fealty and a very refined code of behaviour has produced a charming society, from certain perspectives. It has also produced an underbelly of poverty, ignorance and growing discontent for those who don't even understand how they are being disadvantaged.

The oligarchs employ managers/authorities and give them rent seeking powers, thus creating a nightmarish bureaucracy which stifles development, innovation and wealth creation. The over reliance on tourism reflects the poor state of affairs, whereby there is an over emphasis on the import of wealth in exchange for domestic service, instead of creating an environment which cultivates wealth.

The answer is trade. Business. Moving things around. Allowing people from anywhere, everywhere to come here and create wealth. That's what people do when they are left alone. And on the whole everyone benefits. Opportunities for locals develop along with a thriving community of entrepreneurs and business people. The alternative is to hope on the next plane load of tourists who want massages and food.

[monk213]

Since when have farang ever had a say in the laws and haggled with the powers that be?

and why should a farang have a say in the laws of Thailand, if one is not a citizen or PR of Thailand ?

oh I forgot your a lilly white farang and you demand your rights,

"haggled with he powers that be" ... ....who do you actually think you are ?

That is what I said you doofus, farang get a say in nothing with regards to laws and regulations. Anyway you are a minority within this entire thread who has not realised the potential of this, you are a stick in the mud, a sauerkraut and quite frankly your opinion doesn't matter, change or no change to this law makes no difference really. Online workers gunna work

[antsrule]

What happens if a digital nomad marries a virtual programmer? Clever code fragments floating in the silicon clouds spewing byte-sized bitcoins into a sea of salivating smart phones. Then one day an accountant will go accounting and when he/she adds it up he/she gets the root of minus one, oh dear! Imaginary that ;>)

Good luck taxman, something evil comes your way. BE PREPARED! (To find a new job). Here's another number for ya - 555

[Oceanbat]

I am happy to pay tax anywhere as long as my taxes entitle me to all the rights and privileges of any ordinary citizen of that nation - excluding a vote (not that it turns out that voting is very useful in Thailand any way). Thailand does not provide that environment and I won't pay taxes there until does.

And so goes the ever moving goalposts..

First its if only there was a way.. Then iglu and umbrella companies came along..

Then its but thats got restrictions.. I want..

then its but thats 30% why should I..

and now we get only if I have full citizenship rights for my meagre contribution...

No moving goalposts at all. If you come to my country and pay tax - you get all the same rights as I do. That's fair; it's why you pay tax - to be treated equally under law with all the same benefits as other taxpayers. You don't get to vote because you're not a citizen (though stay for 7 years and you can become one - that's international law).

My taxes are not a "meagre contribution"; based on Thailand's tax rates - I'd be kicking in 100-200K Baht a month in income tax. That's more than most Thais will contribute in their whole lives in tax. You can bet I want something back for my investment in Thailand at that point.

What country gives you the same rights as citizens if you are not?

OB

[Soutpeel]

quite frankly your opinion doesn't matter, change or no change to this law makes no difference really. Online workers gunna work

and neither does your opinion to the people who actually enact the laws, you can stamp your little feet, and hold your breath till you turn blue dear boy, Thailand aint getting an "on line" visa in the form some are hoping for, and yes people are going to work on line, and will continue to do so until they are not allowed back into Thailand as they dont have the right visa, or too many tourists visa's, or too many visa runs or get sprung for working illegally.

The fact is, the on liners are demanding more "freedom" in Thailand and reality is the opposite is actually occurring, they are closing the loop holes...

[Bender]

and people( i mean scammers) were advising here to get an elite card

[monk213]

quite frankly your opinion doesn't matter, change or no change to this law makes no difference really. Online workers gunna work

and neither does your opinion to the people who actually enact the laws, you can stamp your little feet, and hold your breath till you turn blue dear boy, Thailand aint getting an "on line" visa in the form some are hoping for, and yes people are going to work on line, and will continue to do so until they are not allowed back into Thailand as they dont have the right visa, or too many tourists visa's, or too many visa runs or get sprung for working illegally.

The fact is, the on liners are demanding more "freedom" in Thailand and reality is the opposite is actually occurring, they are closing the loop holes...

and you will be dead in a few years

Well I am all legal here sir, and I am actually moving to a more quiet and peaceful location AKA Laos soon, so farewell to LOS and it's ever increasing crime rate and endless supply of laughs it supplies the rest of the world, the laughing stock of the world, LSOW should be the correct terminology. Enjoy old man, and don't get too angry like you do on the internet with Thai locals at your age on the street, you will become a statistic

[Oceanbat]

quite frankly your opinion doesn't matter, change or no change to this law makes no difference really. Online workers gunna work

and neither does your opinion to the people who actually enact the laws, you can stamp your little feet, and hold your breath till you turn blue dear boy, Thailand aint getting an "on line" visa in the form some are hoping for, and yes people are going to work on line, and will continue to do so until they are not allowed back into Thailand as they dont have the right visa, or too many tourists visa's, or too many visa runs or get sprung for working illegally.

The fact is, the on liners are demanding more "freedom" in Thailand and reality is the opposite is actually occurring, they are closing the loop holes...

and you will be dead in a few years

Well I am all legal here sir, and I am actually moving to a more quiet and peaceful location AKA Laos soon, so farewell to LOS and it's ever increasing crime rate and endless supply of laughs it supplies the rest of the world, the laughing stock of the world, LSOW should be the correct terminology. Enjoy old man, and don't get too angry like you do on the internet with Thai locals at your age on the street, you will become a statistic

FAIL

OB

[anon676545345]

quite frankly your opinion doesn't matter, change or no change to this law makes no difference really. Online workers gunna work

and neither does your opinion to the people who actually enact the laws, you can stamp your little feet, and hold your breath till you turn blue dear boy, Thailand aint getting an "on line" visa in the form some are hoping for, and yes people are going to work on line, and will continue to do so until they are not allowed back into Thailand as they dont have the right visa, or too many tourists visa's, or too many visa runs or get sprung for working illegally.

The fact is, the on liners are demanding more "freedom" in Thailand and reality is the opposite is actually occurring, they are closing the loop holes...

Haha yea it seems the doom and gloomers celebrated a bit early, I'm certainly not stamping my feet I'm enjoying living legally in this great country I've got all the "freedom" I desire. The freedom to stay here legally, work here legally doing something I enjoy doing in the place that I want to be and it only adds to my enjoyment that me doing this upsets the wingers.

[AYJAYDEE]

And I am sure if there was a system in place that was crystal clear with a visa to boot, many people would not mind paying the tax

even at 30-35% tax ?

lets face facts shall we, Thailand will never offer an "on liner" type visa without it being attached to some form of legal entity/person, but let say hypothetically they did do you really think they would start handing out visa's just because someone has a laptop, the current push is to close visa loop holes, and creating an "on liner" visa would create another loop hole, the fact is without some form of legal structure/entity in place here would be no control over running an on line business, therefore it will never happen.

I would suggest proof of experience in actual work, a degree in relevant industry and some form of contract. There has to be a middle way, maybe the Thai gov knows all about this and has decided to leave it be because they know how much income it brings to their economy, and the tax etc may scare some off, who knows. But in reality, even with your all o mighty Junta leader now PM, you aren't going to catch people working online who know what they are doing.

no need, they will run out of visas

[Soutpeel]

quite frankly your opinion doesn't matter, change or no change to this law makes no difference really. Online workers gunna work

and neither does your opinion to the people who actually enact the laws, you can stamp your little feet, and hold your breath till you turn blue dear boy, Thailand aint getting an "on line" visa in the form some are hoping for, and yes people are going to work on line, and will continue to do so until they are not allowed back into Thailand as they dont have the right visa, or too many tourists visa's, or too many visa runs or get sprung for working illegally.

The fact is, the on liners are demanding more "freedom" in Thailand and reality is the opposite is actually occurring, they are closing the loop holes...

and you will be dead in a few years

Well I am all legal here sir, and I am actually moving to a more quiet and peaceful location AKA Laos soon, so farewell to LOS and it's ever increasing crime rate and endless supply of laughs it supplies the rest of the world, the laughing stock of the world, LSOW should be the correct terminology. Enjoy old man, and don't get too angry like you do on the internet with Thai locals at your age on the street, you will become a statistic

Will I really ? from what ?... not old age certainly, I still have a good few years before I an even elible for a retirement visa, not angry at all just get fed up listening to delusional little turds, full of self entitlement thats all...

[tpazzi]

If I live in California and consult for a company in NYC, am I cheating NYC out of taxes because I pay my taxes in California? If I live in California and work for a company in NYC, but I spend three months in Vermont, should I be filing taxes in all three states? Ridiculous. The question isn't where the work is performed, but where the money (salary) is paid.

Well....

State tax codes in the US are very clear on this. You owe non-resident taxes in any state where you perform work REGARDLESS of how (where) you actually collect it.

The best example to demonstrate this is the case of pro athletes who show up for 24 hours to play a sports event. Their accountants have to file pro-rated salaries based upon the percent of the season they play games in each respective state. (For a fun example, review Payton Manning's tax obligations to New Jersey since the Super Bowl was played there: http://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenhausen/2014/01/27/new-jersey-taxes-could-eat-up-all-of-peyton-mannings-super-bowl-earnings/)

Now the astronomical size of their salaries generally make it worth the effort of the states to make an issue of pursuing it.

Of course, it is quite easy for consultants who fit the scenario you describe to go about things quietly and keep below the radar of the various states. So if your employers and/or clients don't show payments going to multiple states it is virtually impossible to get caught. (Some states will only audit an individual tax payer after the are alerted by the IRS of anomalies found during a Federal audit.)

But technically, they are breaking the law. I understand your reaction to this ("Ridiculous") But as the article on Payton's situation summarizes, "Unfortunately, we are dealing with tax laws, not logic."

[tpazzi]

Looking specifically at the Thai tax code, I find this:

"Under section 41 of the Revenue Code an individual Thai citizen or foreigner who lives in Thailand for one or more periods totaling at least 180 days in any tax (calendar) year is, for tax purposes, deemed a resident of Thailand and subject to tax on all assessable income derived from sources within the country, whether paid within or outside Thailand, and on assessable income derived from foreign sources to the extent that it is brought into Thailand in a year in which income is received. A non-resident individual is subject to tax only on assessable income from Thai sources, regardless of payment location."

The first suggestion for a true digital nomad would be to stay in Thailand less than 180 days in any calendar year. That would mean no income from any foreign source would be subject to taxes in Thailand. (And this explains why this is of no concern to a short term tourist who logs in to manage an on-line business.)

Stay over 180 days (doesn't have to be consecutive), and it gets a bit cloudy as the argument becomes whether any of the foreign earned income is being brought into Thailand. It seems fair to argue that only money actually converted to Thai Baht (in any form - cash, credit card transaction, bank transfers, etc. ) would be subject to tax reporting.

Of course, you'd have to convince a Thai tax auditor, not me.

[khaowong1]

>Thats from the horses mouth, but in direct contradiction of every other immigration and labor office spokesperson or official statement.

No doubt it will soon be corrected in another statement saying that technically this kind of working is actually not allowed.

What they're really want to say is that this rule is not being enforced, and they are trying to rid the country of criminals and those working in jobs that Thai's could do.

If you're a digital nomad (or a millionaire playboy) it's interesting to know what the immigration and police departments deem worthy of enforcement.

The sanctimonious old codgers will continue to shout (where their ailing lungs allow) about their strict interpretation of the law and resentfully wish for the days of the 1900's when they were the only white man in town, and treated like the rare birds that they know themselves to be.

I do respectfully and humble; while doing so genuily, dare to ask an exact definition of a digital nomad?

Is it some random snipets of code who wander in the network, the so called 'angels' back in the 70' (term used in some Phd thesis at that time)?????

Or is a 'catch-all' word, used to easily define a group of human being unable to find a decent employment in their own country (too many candidates, so only the top best are selected) or in this country (too many candidates, even with top best out, so only the very best can compete)?

I do understand people such as Steve Jobs, Mark Zuckenberg or Bill Gates can, is they so choose, became digital nomads and earn billions a day working remotly; what I do not grasp is the same naming being used by Joe Smith, Mr Allcome, or a noboddy who barely get enought to buy a Chang in 7/11?

You may, if you please, P.M. and decline your qualities on the related field. Being who I am, with the qualifications I have, I rarely got any trouble to land a decent job with decent salary (6 digits a bare minimum in tbh) in the related field. Most of the so called digital nomad, SEO expert, coding guru, or whatever name; are usualy OR incompetent (at best not at the level they claim) OR lazy (unable to provide the amount of work a decent employer expect from employees) OR total fraud (sometimes the 3 at the same time).

LAst, being an old codger myself (or about, I prefer to define myself as old french fart), I found both pathetic and humoristic kids trying to explain me what life is about (they certainly did not pee where I did, and will never do so) , while on the same time trying to explain me what my work is about (digital nomad is anathema to most the specialities they claim to master). There are works that can be done remote (Sun promoted it, I believe Apple did it also at one time); but there are others that are not possible, depending too much of the local conditions of the network (and that is starter , easy to understand by layman people; obviously there is more to say about it, but it will become too much tech blahblah for that place).

So, in Thailand, the real Digital Nomad must be very very little, I would guess less than a hundred; and yes Immigration will turn a blind eye on them, because they make LOT of money to come here (and I do know it well, having the firt experience in 2003/2005 in Lopburi); here we are talking about well over 6 digits a month on a regulary basis. All the others, fighting to get a living at best in Thai standard (mean earning about 20 000) have no right , legaly AND moraly to claim for anything but the same as everyone. They get a visa allowing to do so, if there is not, then they shall move on; if they are high end residents I am quite sure LOT OF COUNTRIES will accept them .... In fact I do not even understand while they are still here, other expats do not love them, locals do not provide them with legal documentation, police want to expel them. Why are they still here??????????????

You may want to recount that figure my old codger of a friend, and also redefine what it means to be a digital nomad. You don't have to be a millionaire to be one, to sustain a house, food, a few luxuries is sufficient, I know of 4 such people myself here, and that's just who I know, so go back to the drawing board or take a nap

Nap? Wish I could, but I am at office working!

Anyway you made my point :

digital nomad , in your words, are people fighting to sustain survival (so barely a living by thai standard). Housing, few luxuries ...

Nothing here that will interest any countries in the world!

Furthermore, I am sure those people came here at first place because they were having the same kind of life at home (mean barely survival while being to lazy to improve their skills); am I right?

Last , I am still waiting for P.M. coming from one of those famed Digital Nomad, PM having his qualifications, said qualifications we would then compare with mines ...

Anyway, while it is normal to want the very best, One shall remember there is no such law written in stone; worst the only laws we all know (and in every countries, allow me to stress it out once more) seems to forbid such migration.

Why? Simply those are people looking to leave OUT THE GRID (mean pay no taxes, fully no national duty, break laws with regards to drugs, .... etc ... und so weiter ...) while searching to abuse said grid with regards to potential benefits (example, being digital nomad abroad until 65 y old, and then claim retirement benefit ) !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

On the other hand, well know, successful , well pay IT freelancers will not have any problems with Immigration and Police (under some conditions, such as having at least a tourist visa, doing some active and real support to locals communities such as doting a primary school with old computers ... be aware I am NOT talking tea money) ... But how many of your famed 25 y old (example) digital nomads so called big spenders are in fact fitting that bill?

One high level specialist may decide to find peace here, and so work remote from the jungle; but that high level specialist will do work in the range of 100 bucks an hour (that is the usual rate in rentacoder.com website for such an individual). Others are only drifters or tramps to use an old word from USA back in the 30'.

Being in that Industry long before they were born, or even long before their parents were born, I can swear the topic is far to be a new one. But everytime it goes to the same bottom line : Some fews are genuine, who need specific conditions to express their genius; most are lazy fraud trying to avoid their duty , duty to own country, resident country, fellow citizens, duty to their employers. The genuine ones will never ever (unless crazed governement, but it is not the case here) be bothered, they provide more than they cost; the others will be a plague for both their own country and the resident country; they will support nothing but their own 'alternate life style'.

Not believe me? Check that one, the website is owned (and being the only earned money of a digital nomad based in Bkk since 2001 ... very nomadic) http://lb-69.com.w3snoop.com/

expected earning are 35 us$ (thirty five) ???????????? Does it qualify for anything, but the name of drifter? Want any other example of those 'valued' digital nomads? I have tons ...

On the other hand, my boss (he weight millions in dollars) is always in and out of Thailand, never heard of him being bothered by Immigration.

My guess is that this the type of "digital nomad" they are talking about.. at least one of them.. this type of person could not possible take money away from the Thai's. and it wouldn't matter if they were on a tourist visa, O, married, retired, what ever.

[khaowong1]

If I live in California and consult for a company in NYC, am I cheating NYC out of taxes because I pay my taxes in California? If I live in California and work for a company in NYC, but I spend three months in Vermont, should I be filing taxes in all three states? Ridiculous. The question isn't where the work is performed, but where the money (salary) is paid.

Well....

State tax codes in the US are very clear on this. You owe non-resident taxes in any state where you perform work REGARDLESS of how (where) you actually collect it.

The best example to demonstrate this is the case of pro athletes who show up for 24 hours to play a sports event. Their accountants have to file pro-rated salaries based upon the percent of the season they play games in each respective state. (For a fun example, review Payton Manning's tax obligations to New Jersey since the Super Bowl was played there: http://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenhausen/2014/01/27/new-jersey-taxes-could-eat-up-all-of-peyton-mannings-super-bowl-earnings/)

Now the astronomical size of their salaries generally make it worth the effort of the states to make an issue of pursuing it.

Of course, it is quite easy for consultants who fit the scenario you describe to go about things quietly and keep below the radar of the various states. So if your employers and/or clients don't show payments going to multiple states it is virtually impossible to get caught. (Some states will only audit an individual tax payer after the are alerted by the IRS of anomalies found during a Federal audit.)

But technically, they are breaking the law. I understand your reaction to this ("Ridiculous") But as the article on Payton's situation summarizes, "Unfortunately, we are dealing with tax laws, not logic."

Great article and insight... thanks..

[Christie Paul]

Ultimately the powers that be will decide the way forward.

Will they stand firm with the present semi feudal, rent seeking model or will they embrace new economic realities?

Will Thailand become a hub for innovation, new business and trade?

Or will it cling to its preeminent position as the worlds leading supplier of massage and related entertainment.

Policies around visas, business and taxation would indicate the latter.

[AYJAYDEE]

Ultimately the powers that be will decide the way forward.

Will they stand firm with the present semi feudal, rent seeking model or will they embrace new economic realities?

Will Thailand become a hub for innovation, new business and trade?

Or will it cling to its preeminent position as the worlds leading supplier of massage and related entertainment.

Policies around visas, business and taxation would indicate the latter.

does america allow anyone that wants to live full time in their country as a digital nomad to do so?

[Christie Paul]

Ultimately the powers that be will decide the way forward.

Will they stand firm with the present semi feudal, rent seeking model or will they embrace new economic realities?

Will Thailand become a hub for innovation, new business and trade?

Or will it cling to its preeminent position as the worlds leading supplier of massage and related entertainment.

Policies around visas, business and taxation would indicate the latter.

does america allow anyone that wants to live full time in their country as a digital nomad to do so?

A very good example.

Americas great economic expansion occurred when there was no taxation on labor (as per the constitution) , the market was open to the world and government intervention in business was negligible. Economic growth from the early to mid 1800's was so extreme that the British and European Empires feared that it would destroy all the world all monarchies as it would attract all capital and manpower.

Since that time it has been downhill, apart from nominal growth achieved through warmongering. Now the economy is highly regulated and virtually catatonic.

To answer your question: Probably the US would not make it easy for small foreign start ups, which is more indicative of their malaise than sound policy. Although I hear that tens of thousands cross the border without restriction of late, probably because local labor is expensive, incapable of hard work and increasingly reluctant to join the military.

[TheSpade]

I don't think this changes anything.

If you were to be caught working online I don't think using this as your evidence of it being OK to do so would work out too well for you.

These nomads want to dodge taxes. That's all there is to it.

I'm sure some do but many pay taxes in their home country.

In some countries if you're out the country for more than 'x' months of the year you don't have to pay taxes anyway.

We don't make the rules. It is how it is.

Or is a 'catch-all' word, used to easily define a group of human being unable to find a decent employment in their own country (too many candidates, so only the top best are selected) or in this country (too many candidates, even with top best out, so only the very best can compete)?

I do understand people such as Steve Jobs, Mark Zuckenberg or Bill Gates can, is they so choose, became digital nomads and earn billions a day working remotly; what I do not grasp is the same naming being used by Joe Smith, Mr Allcome, or a noboddy who barely get enought to buy a Chang in 7/11?

Remind me why anyone would want to be employed and have a boss when they could work for themselves from anywhere in the world?

Where do you get the idea they struggle to pay for a Chang in 7/11.

The only guys I know living in Thailand who are broke are the old guys. All the young guys I know have plenty of spare cash to spend. None of them drink that trampjuice Chang either. Again that's mostly the old broke guys.

Nap? Wish I could, but I am at office working!

Unlucky!

A few people talking about tax in this thread.

Remember, tax avoidance is a legal and logical exercise. Tax dodging is not.

Most digital nomads (and I still hate that term) that I know, the ones that have been at it many years, do pay tax, they simply make sure they pay as little as necessary, nothing wrong with that. Sure, the ones I know living in Thailand don't pay tax locally, but I am darn sure they would if they could, especially if it were at standard Thai income tax rates.

Indeed.

People assume digital nomads aren't paying tax. Many are.

Or if they aren't it's because they are out of their home country for a set period of the year which means they don't have to or have set up their business in a way they don't have to.

Whether that's right or wrong is not for anyone else to decide.

[Tuskfish]

I share the opinion that others have experessed, that the statement made in Chiang Mai today simply refers to people visitng Thailand short term and doing some work while they are here. I don't think this statement makes any difference to the long termers at all.

For long-termers wishing to work online, have a relationship here, legally and relatively cheaply, I would like to offer a suggestion.

1) Register a Business in your home country with yourself as the Sole Director

2) Register a Thai Business with your Partner as the 51% shareholder as required + one of her family members as a 10% shareholder (or a real business partner if you actually have one and it suits your style of business) and keep 39% for yourself

3) Employ 4 people - Minimum salary is only 9000 per month. You can hire a cleaner/gardener if you want. Or you can offer some form of traineeship style arrangement. If you can't afford full-time employees, employ them full-time but only make them work part-time.

4) Perform your online work under your home countries business (i.e. invoice from that business)

5) Pay the Thai business a service fee from your home countries business

(i.e. invoice your home countries business as a client - ideally an amount which is only enough to pay your minimum 50,000 salary + the social security and 9000 per month for your 4 employees - i.e. around 100,000 per month) - remember that you only pay tax on profit plus % of a business mean very little if there is no profit or assets owned by the entity.

This minimises tax, creates a long term legal situation for you to stay in Thailand with your girl and gives back to Thailand at the same time. If you're in a serious relationship then the idea of her having 51% and her sister/brother/mother having 10% shouldn't really be an issue. However relationship do fail, even with good people. Therefore under the above arrangement, by paying the Thai Business from your foreign business only the minimum amount required to operate legally you are reducing that risk significantly. One additional step you could also consider is a prenuptial agreement which clearly states that your foreign business will always remain 100% yours.

If you're married you can register a business for as cheap as 250,000 baht (which for many online business owners and even freelancers that shouldn't be more than one or two months work). Then all you need to do is generate 100,000 worth of business per month with your foreign clients (more if you want to live on more than 50,000 per month).

The rest of your time you can enjoy time with your beautiful lady, going fishing, sinking a few singha beers or watching Arsenal beat United without stressing about immigration.

Atta Hi Attano Natho

[Christie Paul]

Personal income tax in the US does not pay for roads, schools or hospitals. It barely pays the interest levied on the creation of debt instruments issues by a privately owned bank (The FED). Excise, duties, licenses and value added taxes pay for these services. Corporate tax pays for the military, which defends the petro dollar and kills millions of civilians local and foreign.

To as much as possible avoid paying tax and thus funding a giant ponzi scheme of death is a duty to humanity and not a crime.

[Pattszero]

It boils down to

"We're not interested in pursuing tourists that work online.

We are interested in pursuing people that attempt to live in Thailand on continuous tourist and visa-exempt entries."

Simple - and common sense.