Digital nomad, online workers.. Permission !

[Tuskfish]

How about that. Allow the funding of a special type of company which only allows incoming transactions of foreign companies and only allows 1 foreign worker with work permit. Easy...!

there is a vehicle already similar to this already its called a representive office.... dont need 4 Thai employees and will allow a a foreigner a WP....so yes easy as its already there

Representative office of a foreign corporation

A foreign entity may establish a representative office in Thailand to engage in limited non-revenue-earning activities. These activities are restricted to:

• Searching for local sources of goods or services for its head office.
• Inspecting and controlling the quality and quantity of goods procured by its head office.
• Providing advice in various fields relating to products directly sold by its head office to local distributors or consumers.
• Disseminating information about new products and services of its head office.
• Reporting to its head office on local business developments and activities

Sorry, but while you're right to say a foreigner can get a WP, I don't really think that's what "SoFarAndNear" is referring to - I think he/she is referring to working in Thailand as normal and receiving money from international clients

Edited August 21, 2014 by Tuskfish

[gk10002000]

If I live in California and consult for a company in NYC, am I cheating NYC out of taxes because I pay my taxes in California? If I live in California and work for a company in NYC, but I spend three months in Vermont, should I be filing taxes in all three states? Ridiculous. The question isn't where the work is performed, but where the money (salary) is paid.

Well....

State tax codes in the US are very clear on this. You owe non-resident taxes in any state where you perform work REGARDLESS of how (where) you actually collect it.

The best example to demonstrate this is the case of pro athletes who show up for 24 hours to play a sports event. Their accountants have to file pro-rated salaries based upon the percent of the season they play games in each respective state. (For a fun example, review Payton Manning's tax obligations to New Jersey since the Super Bowl was played there: http://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenhausen/2014/01/27/new-jersey-taxes-could-eat-up-all-of-peyton-mannings-super-bowl-earnings/)

Now the astronomical size of their salaries generally make it worth the effort of the states to make an issue of pursuing it.

Of course, it is quite easy for consultants who fit the scenario you describe to go about things quietly and keep below the radar of the various states. So if your employers and/or clients don't show payments going to multiple states it is virtually impossible to get caught. (Some states will only audit an individual tax payer after the are alerted by the IRS of anomalies found during a Federal audit.)

But technically, they are breaking the law. I understand your reaction to this ("Ridiculous") But as the article on Payton's situation summarizes, "Unfortunately, we are dealing with tax laws, not logic."

What you wrote about non-resident taxes in any state is not entirely correct. Many states specifically say WAGES, i,.e. labor monies earned in a state as a non-resident are taxable. Other states say things like "income that is directly attributable" to the work performed INSIDE that state. I am an engineering contractor and I often am working outside my home state of Florida. Right now I am staying and working in California. I report, and California taxes my wages I earn in California. I am paid on a W-2 basis by my employer so it is pretty black and white. In some years, I worked in 3 states, and each state taxed my income directly earned in that particular state.

[CNXTim]

There goes the retial bandwidth in the LoS time to upgrade my ISP

[CNXTim]

The USA taxes its people for monies earned whilst OS while of course companies like the fruit factory avoid by going offshore. i just posted this on Facebook - (dunno why only relatives and friends ever read it.)

The real reason Jobs moved the fruit company's manufacture to China HINT it had nothing to do with engineering skill shortages in the USA
"companies owe U.S. tax on profits they make in the United States and abroad, minus whatever foreign tax they've paid. But a company can put off paying U.S. tax on foreign profits indefinitely, so long as it doesn't bring those profits back to U.S. shores and reinvest them in the business"

[Delphis]

re this thread, yes I can't see how Thailand can produce a separate "work permit" for people working online for their foreign businesses. But they could mount a clarification that such activity need not be rumored "illegal" or a "grey area," on a retirement visa, for instance.

Edited August 21, 2014 by Delphis

[AYJAYDEE]

re this thread, yes I can't see how Thailand can produce a separate "work permit" for people working online for their foreign businesses. But they could mount a clarification that such activity need not be rumored "illegal" or a "grey area," on a retirement visa, for instance.

maybe they dont see it as a grey area. perhaps they see the "thou shalt not work" on a retirement visa as sufficient

[CNXTim]

Ahh a co-ordinated approach to match bandwidth with demand - this would never fly in the LoS

Singapore smartphone users will soon be able to enjoy 300Mbps 4G LTE-Advanced service, which will be provided by Singapore telco SingTel. The service will be available from this Saturday (23 August 2014), in line with the launch of the Samsung GALAXY S5 4G+ in the republic. According to the telco, the Samsung GALAXY S5 4G+ is the first handset globally to be compatible with 4G LTE-Advanced networks. Another compatible smartphone, the Samsung GALAXY Alpha 4G+, will be available from SingTel in September 2014. Customers interested in purchasing either phone with a mobile plan can do so from SingTel's retail outlets or online shop - See more at: http://www.computerworld.com.sg/tech/industries/singtel-to-offer-300mbps-4g-lte-advanced-service-from-this-saturday/#sthash.0qsF1F2O.dpuf

But who wants to live in the most expensive Asian city on earth??

[Delphis]

re this thread, yes I can't see how Thailand can produce a separate "work permit" for people working online for their foreign businesses. But they could mount a clarification that such activity need not be rumored "illegal" or a "grey area," on a retirement visa, for instance.

maybe they dont see it as a grey area. perhaps they see the "thou shalt not work" on a retirement visa as sufficient

It IS sufficient with respect to work economically rooted in Thailand.

Imagine what a work permit would actually say for such (foreign, online) work:

"Yes, we, Thailand give you permission to carry out this work, which in fact has its economic basis entirely in France."

Heh. I don't think so.

Edited August 21, 2014 by Delphis

[duanebigsby]

Ultimately the powers that be will decide the way forward.

Will they stand firm with the present semi feudal, rent seeking model or will they embrace new economic realities?

Will Thailand become a hub for innovation, new business and trade?

Or will it cling to its preeminent position as the worlds leading supplier of massage and related entertainment.

Policies around visas, business and taxation would indicate the latter.

I don't see how people working online, individuals who engage no one , no interaction with Thais, no business with Thais, selling services and goods outside of the country, will bring Thailand out of the 'feudal" era. The whole argument as to why digital nomads should be allowed to stay is that they don't take jobs away from Thais, don't earn money here, don't have customers here, etc.

So how are they going to make Thailand a hub of innovation and new business and trade when they don't have anything to do with the country?

[AYJAYDEE]

re this thread, yes I can't see how Thailand can produce a separate "work permit" for people working online for their foreign businesses. But they could mount a clarification that such activity need not be rumored "illegal" or a "grey area," on a retirement visa, for instance.

maybe they dont see it as a grey area. perhaps they see the "thou shalt not work" on a retirement visa as sufficient

It IS sufficient with respect to work economically rooted in Thailand.

Imagine what a work permit would actually say for such (foreign, online) work:

"Yes, we, Thailand give you permission to carry out this work, which in fact has its economic basis entirely in France."

Heh. I don't think so.

i was speaking of your clarification. they see no need for one as they consider the ban on working sufficent

[duanebigsby]

Ultimately the powers that be will decide the way forward.

Will they stand firm with the present semi feudal, rent seeking model or will they embrace new economic realities?

Will Thailand become a hub for innovation, new business and trade?

Or will it cling to its preeminent position as the worlds leading supplier of massage and related entertainment.

Policies around visas, business and taxation would indicate the latter.

How will digital nomads bring Thailand out of the feudal era?

By your own claims, you don't have Thai customers, all your business is outside of the country, all the money is paid outside.

You don't engage Thailand in any way, so how are you contributing to making Thailand a hub of innovation, new business, and trade?

A bunch of people sitting on the beach, working for themselves on laptops, without engaging anyone Thai won't bring Thailand out of the "dark ages"

[Delphis]

Ultimately the powers that be will decide the way forward.

Will they stand firm with the present semi feudal, rent seeking model or will they embrace new economic realities?

Will Thailand become a hub for innovation, new business and trade?

Or will it cling to its preeminent position as the worlds leading supplier of massage and related entertainment.

Policies around visas, business and taxation would indicate the latter.

I don't see how people working online, individuals who engage no one , no interaction with Thais, no business with Thais, selling services and goods outside of the country, will bring Thailand out of the 'feudal" era. The whole argument as to why digital nomads should be allowed to stay is that they don't take jobs away from Thais, don't earn money here, don't have customers here, etc.

So how are they going to make Thailand a hub of innovation and new business and trade when they don't have anything to do with the country?

Au contraire. Their presence is a free moneypot for the country because there is a simple flow of money INTO the Thailand system from online workers whose businesses are economically sourced outside of Thailand. Exactly the same as retirement visa situation. "Thank you very much. We understand that you make a lot of money elsewhere. Please spend it in Thailand, for which we'd be very grateful."

[underthebridge]

It boils down to

"We're not interested in pursuing tourists that work online.

We are interested in pursuing people that attempt to live in Thailand on continuous tourist and visa-exempt entries."

Simple - and common sense.

...from reading the comments it seems that common sense is not that common anymore. Or could it be that people with their common sense intact keep their mouth shut and stay under the radar?

[AYJAYDEE]

Ultimately the powers that be will decide the way forward.

Will they stand firm with the present semi feudal, rent seeking model or will they embrace new economic realities?

Will Thailand become a hub for innovation, new business and trade?

Or will it cling to its preeminent position as the worlds leading supplier of massage and related entertainment.

Policies around visas, business and taxation would indicate the latter.

I don't see how people working online, individuals who engage no one , no interaction with Thais, no business with Thais, selling services and goods outside of the country, will bring Thailand out of the 'feudal" era. The whole argument as to why digital nomads should be allowed to stay is that they don't take jobs away from Thais, don't earn money here, don't have customers here, etc.

So how are they going to make Thailand a hub of innovation and new business and trade when they don't have anything to do with the country?

Au contraire. Their presence is a free moneypot for the country because there is a simple flow of money INTO the Thailand system from online workers whose businesses are economically sourced outside of Thailand. Exactly the same as retirement visa situation. "Thank you very much. We understand that you make a lot of money elsewhere. Please spend it in Thailand, for which we'd be very grateful."

they obviously disagree

[Delphis]

Ultimately the powers that be will decide the way forward.

Will they stand firm with the present semi feudal, rent seeking model or will they embrace new economic realities?

Will Thailand become a hub for innovation, new business and trade?

Or will it cling to its preeminent position as the worlds leading supplier of massage and related entertainment.

Policies around visas, business and taxation would indicate the latter.

I don't see how people working online, individuals who engage no one , no interaction with Thais, no business with Thais, selling services and goods outside of the country, will bring Thailand out of the 'feudal" era. The whole argument as to why digital nomads should be allowed to stay is that they don't take jobs away from Thais, don't earn money here, don't have customers here, etc.

So how are they going to make Thailand a hub of innovation and new business and trade when they don't have anything to do with the country?

Au contraire. Their presence is a free moneypot for the country because there is a simple flow of money INTO the Thailand system from online workers whose businesses are economically sourced outside of Thailand. Exactly the same as retirement visa situation. "Thank you very much. We understand that you make a lot of money elsewhere. Please spend it in Thailand, for which we'd be very grateful."

they obviously disagree

I don't think so. That's why the retirement visa exists.

[duanebigsby]

Ultimately the powers that be will decide the way forward.

Will they stand firm with the present semi feudal, rent seeking model or will they embrace new economic realities?

Will Thailand become a hub for innovation, new business and trade?

Or will it cling to its preeminent position as the worlds leading supplier of massage and related entertainment.

Policies around visas, business and taxation would indicate the latter.

I don't see how people working online, individuals who engage no one , no interaction with Thais, no business with Thais, selling services and goods outside of the country, will bring Thailand out of the 'feudal" era. The whole argument as to why digital nomads should be allowed to stay is that they don't take jobs away from Thais, don't earn money here, don't have customers here, etc.

So how are they going to make Thailand a hub of innovation and new business and trade when they don't have anything to do with the country?

Au contraire. Their presence is a free moneypot for the country because there is a simple flow of money INTO the Thailand system from online workers whose businesses are economically sourced outside of Thailand. Exactly the same as retirement visa situation. "Thank you very much. We understand that you make a lot of money elsewhere. Please spend it in Thailand, for which we'd be very grateful."

That's just spending money on rent and food etc. That isn't making Thailand a "hub of innovation, business and trade."

[Delphis]

That's just spending money on rent and food etc. That isn't making Thailand a "hub of innovation, business and trade."

Rent / food / products / transport / entertainment / real estate / medical / dental ...and a number of other things you left out.

And yes, it is helping to do that. All of the above are forms of business and trade.

Edited August 21, 2014 by Delphis

[AYJAYDEE]

they obviously disagree

I don't think so. That's why the retirement visa exists.

yeah, they want the retired folks but they obviously dont want you

[squarethecircle]

"yeah, they want the retired folks but they obviously dont want you"

Correction: they don't want, and they don't not want. If they not wanted it they'd come out with something saying "this is illegal here, go somewhere else". If wanted there would be a visa category for it. Not to knock the retirees but they are a funny lot.

[AYJAYDEE]

"yeah, they want the retired folks but they obviously dont want you"

Correction: they don't want, and they don't not want. If they not wanted it they'd come out with something saying "this is illegal here, go somewhere else". If wanted there would be a visa category for it. Not to knock the retirees but they are a funny lot.

they did. they said working on a retirement visa is not allowed. period.

[JLCrab]

The reason this same discussion goes on no matter the topic heading may be simple:

Guys repeatedly say that they can do their online work all by themselves and they do not need the help of anyone especially a Thai citizen and that they are not taking any job away from a Thai citizen.

Thai officialdom may believe (rightly or wrongly) that when you come to Thailand and do your online work all by yourself without the assistance of anyone especially a Thai citizen you ARE taking a potential job away from a Thai citizen.

Note: From the screenplay for My Cousin Vinny:

Judge Haller: Mr. Gambini?

Vinny Gambini: Yes, sir?

Judge Haller: That is a lucid, intelligent, well thought-out objection.

Vinny Gambini: Thank you, Your Honor.

Judge Haller: [firm tone] Overruled.

[INV]

The reason this same discussion goes on no matter the topic heading may be simple:

Guys repeatedly say that they can do their online work all by themselves and they do not need the help of anyone especially a Thai citizen and that they are not taking any job away from a Thai citizen.

Thai officialdom may believe (rightly or wrongly) that when you come to Thailand and do your online work all by yourself without the assistance of anyone especially a Thai citizen you ARE taking a potential job away from a Thai citizen.

Note: From the screenplay for My Cousin Vinny:

Judge Haller: Mr. Gambini?

Vinny Gambini: Yes, sir?

Judge Haller: That is a lucid, intelligent, well thought-out objection.

Vinny Gambini: Thank you, Your Honor.

Judge Haller: [firm tone] Overruled.

Thai official or any else that believe that are soooo wrong. I cant see how I can take job from a Thai that have no idea what coding or SEO or anything else o internet as there language skills in general sucks.They hardly know any English and in my case any Scandinavian or German language.So what kind of work skills could they ever offer me?.Sorry i dont need any Thai to make me coffee.

[AYJAYDEE]

The reason this same discussion goes on no matter the topic heading may be simple:

Guys repeatedly say that they can do their online work all by themselves and they do not need the help of anyone especially a Thai citizen and that they are not taking any job away from a Thai citizen.

Thai officialdom may believe (rightly or wrongly) that when you come to Thailand and do your online work all by yourself without the assistance of anyone especially a Thai citizen you ARE taking a potential job away from a Thai citizen.

Note: From the screenplay for My Cousin Vinny:

Judge Haller: Mr. Gambini?

Vinny Gambini: Yes, sir?

Judge Haller: That is a lucid, intelligent, well thought-out objection.

Vinny Gambini: Thank you, Your Honor.

Judge Haller: [firm tone] Overruled.

Thai official or any else that believe that are soooo wrong. I cant see how I can take job from a Thai that have no idea what coding or SEO or anything else o internet as there language skills in general sucks.They hardly know any English and in my case any Scandinavian or German language.So what kind of work skills could they ever offer me?.Sorry i dont need any Thai to make me coffee.

you wont be getting the opportunity to get a visa to allow long stay in that case

Edited August 22, 2014 by AYJAYDEE

[JLCrab]

From above: Thai official or any else that believe that are soooo wrong. Maybe. But they are the officials and you are not.

[chrisinth]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

That's just spending money on rent and food etc. That isn't making Thailand a "hub of innovation, business and trade."

Rent / food / products / transport / entertainment / real estate / medical / dental ...and a number of other things you left out.

And yes, it is helping to do that. All of the above are forms of business and trade.

You mean like a tourist would?

Please stop trying to over-value the digital nomad...........................

[ATF]

I'm not surprised that the Digital Nomads have a problem paying 25k for an ED Visa and Heaven forbid the cost of opening a real company when there are millions of Indians and Russians tapping away on their keyboards making fortunes.

[NanLaew]

Thai official or any else that believe that are soooo wrong. I cant see how I can take job from a Thai that have no idea what coding or SEO or anything else o internet as there language skills in general sucks.They hardly know any English and in my case any Scandinavian or German language.So what kind of work skills could they ever offer me?. Sorry i dont need any Thai to make me coffee.

Take it easy on the humility there.

And how's your Thai lessons going? Learning much? Beyond the language I mean.

[NanLaew]

It boils down to

"We're not interested in pursuing tourists that work online.

We are interested in pursuing people that attempt to live in Thailand on continuous tourist and visa-exempt entries."

Simple - and common sense.

...from reading the comments it seems that common sense is not that common anymore. Or could it be that people with their common sense intact keep their mouth shut and stay under the radar?

Tell me about it! Last night was the first time ever I have been asked how can I afford my Aston Martin by a cop at a routine traffic stop. I had to quickly come up with ridiculous story about being retired from the oil patch with a Thai wife and huge investments in TGAU, etc.. Fairly raised the hackles on the back of my neck I can tell you. I reckon I could have been in trouble if they had searched the car and found... my laptop! Edited August 22, 2014 by NanLaew

[jenk4lyf]

quite frankly your opinion doesn't matter, change or no change to this law makes no difference really. Online workers gunna work

and neither does your opinion to the people who actually enact the laws, you can stamp your little feet, and hold your breath till you turn blue dear boy, Thailand aint getting an "on line" visa in the form some are hoping for, and yes people are going to work on line, and will continue to do so until they are not allowed back into Thailand as they dont have the right visa, or too many tourists visa's, or too many visa runs or get sprung for working illegally.

The fact is, the on liners are demanding more "freedom" in Thailand and reality is the opposite is actually occurring, they are closing the loop holes...

and you will be dead in a few years

Well I am all legal here sir, and I am actually moving to a more quiet and peaceful location AKA Laos soon, so farewell to LOS and it's ever increasing crime rate and endless supply of laughs it supplies the rest of the world, the laughing stock of the world, LSOW should be the correct terminology. Enjoy old man, and don't get too angry like you do on the internet with Thai locals at your age on the street, you will become a statistic

Will I really ? from what ?... not old age certainly, I still have a good few years before I an even elible for a retirement visa, not angry at all just get fed up listening to delusional little turds, full of self entitlement thats all...

You don't have too many miles left on the clock old timer, watch your mouth and your blood pressure

[CWMcMurray]

Maybe this only means it is ok to work online on a tourist visa, as he said...

And as immigration is cracking down on use of tourist visa for those who are not actual tourists, then this does not apply to those living in Thailand long term, but just to tourists...

Who knows how they will come back to clarify or if they even will, but they very well could say...

If some one is an actual tourist and on vacation in Thailand and need to work on line during their vacation, we do not expect them to get a work permit

But if someone is living in Thailand long term on non-im visa or extension, then of course they should comply with all relevant labor laws and have necessary visa and work permit documents...

If they say the above, then no need to back track or contradict anyone or any agency...