Dill - pronunciation

[Kanga Japan]

How is the word DILL ดิล actually pronounced?

One site pronounces it as DIL and another as DIN.

Which is correct? I realize that it is written as DIN.

Thanks for your help.

[Mole]

It's written as dil, but pronounced as din, because in Thai language, "l" at the end of words will be pronounced as "n".

[Ohng]

I found the interesting site here http://www.pharmacy.cmu.ac.th/web2553/n26.php

In Thai, it's called ผักชีลาว or ผักดิลล์ or หญ้าดิลล์

If you use Dill word, you better pronounce it in the english way since it is not Thai word even 'l' = 'ล' and pronounce as 'n' = 'น' in thai.

[Kanga Japan]

Dear Mole and Ohng,

Firstly Mole. Thank you for your reply. I was aware that ล should be pronounced as N if at the end of a word, but Thai-Language.com pronounced it as DIL, so I was somewhat confused. Thank you for the confirmation.

Ohng,

Thank you for your reply. I note that you recommend pronouncing it with an L at the end. I guess that Mole's pronunciation as DIN is the correct pronunciation and yours (DIL) is perhaps the common pronunciation. I will include both. Thank you for the site link. I now have the following Thai words to describe Dill:

PHAK CHI LAO (ผักชีลาว)

DIN (ดิล) (is this script correct? it is different from the 2 dins below)

THIAN KHAO PLUEAK (เทียนข้าวเปลือก)

THIAN TATAK TAEN (เทียนตาตั๊กแตน)

PHAK DIN (ผักดิลล์)

YA DIN (หญ้าดิลล์)

My Thai reading ability is not too good, but I noticed in the link you sent that they referred to PHAK CHI LAO FARANG (ผักชีลาวฝรั่ง) as being European dill, so I guess that is also another word which can be used to describe dill.

Thank you both for your help. If you could confirm the Thai script shown above for DIN, I would appreciate it.

[tifino]

apple vs. app'n แอปเปิ้ล

- comes to mind

[Mole]

There are several words on thai-language.com which are erroneous and also several inconsistencies (this being yet another one), so I wouldn't really use it as some kind of benchmark or authority on Thai language.

ดิลล์ should be more correct, since it is a phonetic rendition of English "Dill". The mark on top of the second ล "ล์" means this letter is not pronounced.

Thai people will be totally incapable to pronounce the "l" sound at the end of words. It will always be pronounced as "n".

[Kanga Japan]

Dear Mole,

Thank you so much for that information.

I appreciate your help and kind explanation.

[Ohng]

Dear Mole and Ohng,

Firstly Mole. Thank you for your reply. I was aware that ล should be pronounced as N if at the end of a word, but Thai-Language.com pronounced it as DIL, so I was somewhat confused. Thank you for the confirmation.

Ohng,

Thank you for your reply. I note that you recommend pronouncing it with an L at the end. I guess that Mole's pronunciation as DIN is the correct pronunciation and yours (DIL) is perhaps the common pronunciation. I will include both. Thank you for the site link. I now have the following Thai words to describe Dill:

PHAK CHI LAO (ผักชีลาว)

DIN (ดิล) (is this script correct? it is different from the 2 dins below)

THIAN KHAO PLUEAK (เทียนข้าวเปลือก)

THIAN TATAK TAEN (เทียนตาตั๊กแตน)

PHAK DIN (ผักดิลล์)

YA DIN (หญ้าดิลล์)

My Thai reading ability is not too good, but I noticed in the link you sent that they referred to PHAK CHI LAO FARANG (ผักชีลาวฝรั่ง) as being European dill, so I guess that is also another word which can be used to describe dill.

Thank you both for your help. If you could confirm the Thai script shown above for DIN, I would appreciate it.

From the Chiang Mai University site here, http://www.pharmacy.cmu.ac.th/web2553/n26.php , DILL is the english word and it's originated from the southern europe. And in Thai is "ผักชีลาวฝรั่ง" or "หญ้าดิลล์" or "ดิลล์หวีด (Dill weed)" since it is Thai food then I think the Autor used DILL because it is familiar to ผักชีลาว that commonly used in Thai food.

So, if you write it as DILL then the Thai script would be "ดิลล์" since it is not Thai word and I'm pretty sure no one knows "ดิลล์" "ผักดิลล์" "หญิงดิลล์" in Thailand. In Thailand as describe in http://www.weherb.net/wizContent.asp?wizConID=123&txtmMenu_ID=7 , it's known as "เทียนข้าวเปลือก" "เทียนตาตั๊กแตน(Central provinces)" "ผักชี(ขอนแก่น เลย, Khon Kaen, Loei provinces)" "ผักชีตั๊กแตนผักชีเทียน(Phichit province)" "ผักชีเมือง(Nan province)"

Btw, even I am Thai but I only know ผักชี, ผักชีฝรั่ง and ผักชีลาว!

[DavidHouston]

I see the pronunciation of ดิล in Thai-language.com as "ดิล dinM" Where do you see "DIL"?

ต้นดิลใช้เป็นเครื่องเทศ dtohnF dinM chaiH bpenM khreuuangF thaehtF

Dear Mole and Ohng,

Firstly Mole. Thank you for your reply. I was aware that ล should be pronounced as N if at the end of a word, but Thai-Language.com pronounced it as DIL, so I was somewhat confused. Thank you for the confirmation.

Ohng,

Thank you for your reply. I note that you recommend pronouncing it with an L at the end. I guess that Mole's pronunciation as DIN is the correct pronunciation and yours (DIL) is perhaps the common pronunciation. I will include both. Thank you for the site link. I now have the following Thai words to describe Dill:

PHAK CHI LAO (ผักชีลาว)

DIN (ดิล) (is this script correct? it is different from the 2 dins below)

THIAN KHAO PLUEAK (เทียนข้าวเปลือก)

THIAN TATAK TAEN (เทียนตาตั๊กแตน)

PHAK DIN (ผักดิลล์)

YA DIN (หญ้าดิลล์)

My Thai reading ability is not too good, but I noticed in the link you sent that they referred to PHAK CHI LAO FARANG (ผักชีลาวฝรั่ง) as being European dill, so I guess that is also another word which can be used to describe dill.

Thank you both for your help. If you could confirm the Thai script shown above for DIN, I would appreciate it.

[Kanga Japan]

Dear Ohng,

Thank you for all those details. I think I will stick to just a couple of basic words for DILL.

I appreciate your help.

[Kanga Japan]

Dear DavidHouston,

It was not written as DIL in Thai-language.com, but I listened to the pronunciation and it came out as DIL.

[DavidHouston]

I heard "ดิว" or "diew" which is a spoken compromise between the English "dill" and the pronunciation implied by the Thai orthography "din".

[Richard W]

I actually heard [l] the first time, and after many replays I think it is [l] relaxing into [w]. The teaching of English is affecting how Thais say English loanwords, with many striving to pronounce English /l/ as [l]. The site seems to make the assumption that Thais can pronounce Thai, rather than having an editorial policy on how Thai words are to be pronounced.

[rhythmworx]

If you ever need dil dough for your recipe book it's commonly known as copy cock.

[Kanga Japan]

Dear DavidHouston and Richard W,

Thanks for your comments. It is interesting how we hear things. It does indeed sound like DIL when you first listen to it, but after listening to it over and over, it gradually changes. The ending is quite unclear.

Richard W's perceptions are interesting and probably form the basis of these sites.

I appreciate both of your comments.

[Mole]

Normally, according to Thai orthography, ล at the end of words will always be pronounced as "n". This is always the case for traditional loan-words which originates from languages such as Sanskrit or Pali.

However, for English loanwords where some Thai people may already be familiar with it's English pronunciation, they will try to pronounce the l at the end. But since this phoneme doesn't exist natively in Thai, they end up pronouncing something sounding more like w sound.

For instance, dill will sound something like dio or diw.

However, somebody who is not familiar with the English pronunciation of dill will always read the word ดิล as "din".

This is yet another example of thai-language inconsistencies and can confuse people who are learning Thai.

They write that it's pronounced like "din", but then in the audio, it's clearly NOT pronounced as "din".

[Kanga Japan]

Dear Mole,

Thank you for that excellent explanation.

It covers a situation which I (and probably many others) are not too familiar with and helps to widen our understanding of Thai.

[AyG]

Pronunciation will depend upon the level of education of the individual saying the word and their familiarity with English.

With a word such as "icecream", children and the less educated will pronounce it AI-TIM. The better educated will say AI-SA-KREM.

Similarly with dill. Those who can say "DIL" will do so. Others will say DIN.

[Mole]

Actually, when it comes to the word "ai-tim". This is so ingrained in Thai language that "ai-tim" is the norm.

Anyone saying "ai-sa-kim" or to that extent will just be considered trying to be snobbish or trying to hard to sound educated or "hi-so".

Also, I beg to differ about the statement regarding level of education. I often hear for example bar girls trying too hard to pronounce English loan words, so it's evident pronunciation really has no connection with their level of education. Some people may even be highly educated, but in subject where little English is used.

Exactly how Thais decides to pronounce certain English loan words, also depends on social aspect, like how hard they are trying to portray themselves. Most of the time, we Thais are able to notice this on the subtle ways they are trying to pronounce a particular word and also what word they chose to pronounce more "inter". (such as ice cream)

[tifino]

I've just tried out the malay (Bahasa) pronouncing way on the Missus:

"aiskrim"

she felt comfortable with it, and it sounded 'normal' to what I expected...

It came out as aisklim - but at least the 'k' was presented from madam thai's lips

[Ohng]

"Ai-Tim" is more common pronounced among Thais people, regardless the level of education.

As I am Thai, I am sure if someone who is Thai pronounced it as "Ai-Sa-Krem" in the wrong places, people will look down at you for sure!

[AyG]

I often hear for example bar girls trying too hard to pronounce English loan words

I bow to your superior familiarity with bar girls and their pronunciation of English loan words.

[Mole]

Yes, maybe you too should also get more out and actually get to know how Thai people of all aspect of society speak???

If that's the perception you have of pronunciation of "ice-cream", seems to me you've been mingling with mostly wannabe hi-so.

[Kanga Japan]

Thanks for all your comments on how Thais pronounce foreign loanwords.

Interesting aspect of Thai society.