Immigration Bureau told to be flexible with 'visa runners'

[Friendly Stranger]

Confusing as only Thais can be legal tour guides, no?

Also, now they'll be an influx of ppl (guys) wanting to teach?

[Friendly Stranger]

Dupe post.

Edited August 23, 2014 by Friendly Stranger

[BKKSnowBird]

Good news! I knew this wouldn't come to anything.

Good news for illegally working English teachers, you mean?

Like I said before, Thailand does not want or need anymore western dropout who come here to teach.

Sure they may lose a few good teachers who had no degree but not many. Most with no degree are not as great as they think they are. There are good and bad teachers with and without degrees, but you need to have a minimum of qualifications.

The teachers I met always running to the border will be of no loss.

[John1thru10]

2. 1. a restaurant worker

How many farang have you seen working in restaurants apart from owning or co owning them? How many farang work in 7/11? Literally all jobs apart from a very few and also companies who have outsourced here are closed to foreigners. It's kind of racist when you think about it, not many countries do this but it is their country and they make the rules

It's not racist in the least.

Thailand, like most countries, have protections for their own workforce.

Many countries do this.

It's difficult for many Canadians to get US green cards for that reason.

You might not be aware of how many people you assume to be Thai, are not. Many (many) restaurant workers in Thailand are Burmese, Chinese, etc. Being Asian doesn't mean a person is Thai in Thailand, at all.

[ScotBkk]

Good news! I knew this wouldn't come to anything.

Good news for illegally working English teachers, you mean?

Like I said before, Thailand does not want or need anymore western dropout who come here to teach.

Sure they may lose a few good teachers who had no degree but not many. Most with no degree are not as great as they think they are. There are good and bad teachers with and without degrees, but you need to have a minimum of qualifications.

The teachers I met always running to the border will be of no loss.

You make your speech with so much Clarity as if your the mouthpiece for the entire Teachng profession..... tell me where you get ALL your inside information to predict the outcome for Thailand ...... If ALL you say is bona-fide ship shape and correct ...

We might be anytime seeing another FARANG running the country ... namely: YOU ............

Edited August 23, 2014 by ScotBkk

[poostick]

Nice to see so many people with so much hate for others less less fortunate than themselves. The big "I'm allright Jack and the rest of you should go back to your cold miserable home country".

Sad people.

[ericthai]

The damage to the Tourist Industry, real tourism and/or fake tourism, has been done already.

This whole crackdown was so poorly announced and handled that it is a shame.

How did this damage the tourism industry? The crack down did not effect tourists. The tourism

industry took a hit from the political unrest and military take over. People see this and get

scared and go somewhere else. Has nothing to do with tourist visas as most come here under

visa exempt. Some of you guys just make s!#t up.

[neverdie]

Nice to see so many people with so much hate for others less less fortunate than themselves. The big "I'm allright Jack and the rest of you should go back to your cold miserable home country".

Sad people.

Just what TVF needs is another poo stick. What a name !?

[neverdie]

csabo

Could you quote some sources for your assuptions? Especially about all the criminals. And the rules for retirees already exist and are complied with by many retirees over 50 who get appropriate visas and report as required. The only "complaint" you replied to was about the age requirement of a retiree. I am curious why your feathers got so ruffled by this simple request that would have no impact on other retirees or younger people working legally in Thailand as these younger retirees don't seek employment. So is it jealousy that some people were able to retire from their home country under the age of fifty that has you so upset about something that could not possibly impact your situation?? Do tell.

Personally, I've noticed more verbal attacks going back at these retirees, that seemingly, have this preconceived idea they somehow rule the roost and control ALL us Farangs in Thailand through their dedicated and loyal affair with fellow -Coffin Dodgers.

They are a special crew I must admit. Never in my entire life have I read such toxic verbiage from so many who hate to see anyone do better, making out that their past fellow citizens are nothing more than uneducated peasants trying to infiltrate their patch now theyve gave up their countries birthplace and seemingly became a self-appointed Farang/Thai or maybe even no longer call themselves a Farang.

Its a total and utter disgrace and the amount of abuse is sickening beyond belief.

Anyway, it will never stop for some until they pass away. Unfortunately, more more pop-up as if made in the Morbid Factory for the seriously deranged..

TRUTH HURTS ..

I agee, so whole heartedly. I've lived all over the world, and have never encountered a more hostile group than those you describe here...the reitiree crowd at TV. The angry entitlement and fear they hope to spread as a way to justify themselves is a real phenomenon here, completely unproductive, and long overdue to be put out to pasture.

How do you know who's in the retiree crowd John?

[harrry]

I quite accept that a degree in Education is probably a help to people wishing to teach English as a foreign language though it is not a requirement for those teaching EFL in many foreign countries.

I think however that if that is the case it is fraudulent of the Thai Government to permit people to purport to teach Thai to foreigners in this country. What is good enough for the goose is good enough for the gander.

[martinhp]

I bet the general noticed the empty spots already.

Better the foul go home he obviously don't have a clue

[John1thru10]

csabo

Could you quote some sources for your assuptions? Especially about all the criminals. And the rules for retirees already exist and are complied with by many retirees over 50 who get appropriate visas and report as required. The only "complaint" you replied to was about the age requirement of a retiree. I am curious why your feathers got so ruffled by this simple request that would have no impact on other retirees or younger people working legally in Thailand as these younger retirees don't seek employment. So is it jealousy that some people were able to retire from their home country under the age of fifty that has you so upset about something that could not possibly impact your situation?? Do tell.

Personally, I've noticed more verbal attacks going back at these retirees, that seemingly, have this preconceived idea they somehow rule the roost and control ALL us Farangs in Thailand through their dedicated and loyal affair with fellow -Coffin Dodgers.

They are a special crew I must admit. Never in my entire life have I read such toxic verbiage from so many who hate to see anyone do better, making out that their past fellow citizens are nothing more than uneducated peasants trying to infiltrate their patch now theyve gave up their countries birthplace and seemingly became a self-appointed Farang/Thai or maybe even no longer call themselves a Farang.

Its a total and utter disgrace and the amount of abuse is sickening beyond belief.

Anyway, it will never stop for some until they pass away. Unfortunately, more more pop-up as if made in the Morbid Factory for the seriously deranged..

TRUTH HURTS ..

I agee, so whole heartedly. I've lived all over the world, and have never encountered a more hostile group than those you describe here...the reitiree crowd at TV. The angry entitlement and fear they hope to spread as a way to justify themselves is a real phenomenon here, completely unproductive, and long overdue to be put out to pasture.

How do you know who's in the retiree crowd John?

I'll never interact with you again after what I've seen you send my direction before, frankly. Take care of yourself.

[kannot]

Visa rules to be relaxed

The Nation

BANGKOK: -- The Immigration Bureau has been told to be flexible with "visa runners", junta chief General Prayuth Chan-ocha said yesterday.

In his weekly televised address yesterday, Prayuth said those going on visa runs can register with the bureau, which will then find a way to resolve the problem.

Foreigners have been exploiting tourist visas and visas on arrival to work illegally in Thailand, mostly as English teachers. When their visa is about to expire, they go to a neighbouring country for a new visa and return to continue with their illegal jobs.

Upon taking over, the junta decided to tighten the rules, deciding not to re-issue visas and threatening those who overstay their visa with deportation. However, Prayuth admitted that this crackdown had considerably affected certain groups.

"This is a problem that needs to be resolved, as it can lead to a shortage of English teachers and tour guides," he said

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Visa-rules-to-be-relaxed-30241597.html

-- The Nation 2014-08-23

So Border runs are back on the or is it just for illegal English teachers and tour guides? The crackdown didn't even last a week. Who was the numbskull who thought up this plan in the 1st place?

It doesnt matter who thought it up, someone has had the common sense to see it was unworkable and say so.

[itsuptome]

I'm starting to like this Prayuth guy. There's no doubt that if you'd put the guns in the hands of a certain cadre of Thaivisa forum posters and told them to stage a coup, the corpses would have piled up in the streets while those manly keyboard jockeys executed anyone who had come back from an in-out visa run, studied the Thai language for less than 25 hours a week, or leased a condo and gone on a date with a Thai girl before turning 50 and getting the proper visa.

The Thai way, or so I've heard, is softer, and Prayuth's statement seems like supporting evidence. No, law enforcement here isn't very strict or consistent. Thais seem to prefer working things out instead of throwing the book at people. If that's important to you, there are many other countries which offer it. The Stasi were great at it. Many coups have been led by generals which took a hard line when they came into power. Mao's Cultural Revolution comes to mind.

The world is your oyster gentlemen, now's the time: if Prayuth is too soft for you, leave Thailand and move to Ferguson!

[Hawkman]

It will be interesting to know what triggered this speech.

How did they become aware that it was affecting schools and teachers etc? As, I'm pretty sure no school is going to admit to hiring illegal ones to the authorities.

My guess would be either some schools have started to voice their discontent with MOE's requirements and that's been noticed or people in high places have seen teachers disappear from their or their acquaintances' children's schools.

I know of two teachers who weren't let back into the country which caused their schools to be without anyone to teach their students.

For most schools, they don't care if you're a good teacher or not or have the right qualifications, it's more of a case, can they rely on you, will you turn up and will the students like you. When that teacher is gone, the school panic and don't know what to do.

While the clampdown was/is necessary, you need to look at the whole picture first, identify the problems that could arise and what can be done to prevent them, let all the interested parties know exactly what's going on (hence the confusion and irregularity in following the rules at the borders) and plan it all well. This clearly hasn't happened.

As the saying goes - if you fail to plan, plan to fail. This is something that Thai culture could learn a lot from Western culture.

[balo]

Welcome to 'Thai style' democracy......

[RHerberth]

So from now on the visa run and back to back tourist visas are allowed ?

[BKKSnowBird]

It will be interesting to know what triggered this speech.

How did they become aware that it was affecting schools and teachers etc? As, I'm pretty sure no school is going to admit to hiring illegal ones to the authorities.

My guess would be either some schools have started to voice their discontent with MOE's requirements and that's been noticed or people in high places have seen teachers disappear from their or their acquaintances' children's schools.

I know of two teachers who weren't let back into the country which caused their schools to be without anyone to teach their students.

For most schools, they don't care if you're a good teacher or not or have the right qualifications, it's more of a case, can they rely on you, will you turn up and will the students like you. When that teacher is gone, the school panic and don't know what to do.

While the clampdown was/is necessary, you need to look at the whole picture first, identify the problems that could arise and what can be done to prevent them, let all the interested parties know exactly what's going on (hence the confusion and irregularity in following the rules at the borders) and plan it all well. This clearly hasn't happened.

As the saying goes - if you fail to plan, plan to fail. This is something that Thai culture could learn a lot from Western culture.

How did they know? I am sure they read Thai Visa!! Lol

[DP25]

Not a surprise.

Even people who are qualified to teach in Thailand legally, and have had work permits in the past, some times need to do a couple border runs or get a tourist visa or two. That's just reality. Many schools only give a work permit for the time when school is in session, people change jobs, schools mess up paperwork and the non imm B expires before the work permit finishes, etc.

The draconian measures were causing lots of people to just leave. Which is a good thing for those that are still here, maybe salaries will go up for them, but it is bad for Thailand as a whole as qualified and experienced people are being pushed out.

[GoonDizzy]

Register with the bureau? For what, exactly? A visa runner visa? A tefl runner visa? To get deported? Hopefully, some clarification will be on its way.

[a99az]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

"So, this is an ongoing problem that needs to be resolved, as it can lead to a shortage of English teachers and guides," he said during his weekly TV programme.

How about enforcing the schools to adhere to the law and providing work permits instead of keeping teachers semi-illegal.

Couldn't agree more, however, the problem is the current requirements prevent good teachers from being employed legally. A degree in Psychology doesn't make someone a good teacher.

Someone who is passionate about teaching, does preparation, knows how to get the best out of their students, has done a teaching course, how to correct and make their students better and knows how to teach is what makes a good teacher.

I wish for the day they scrap the degree requirement and do a teaching observation and screening instead. Then, everyone wins, bar the bad teachers.

Unfortunately, it's the MOE I believe that needs to wake up to this.


Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

Being a native English speaker, who majored in English, minored in German and who is in his 2nd work permit - that's the experience of a friend who taught at our local secondary school for a year before taking a slot at a bigger school in a city. He visited again and news of his visit brought a buzz of excitement among the teachers. He was liked by staff an students alike, and is missed. He was one who did prepare for classes... and made it interesting. alt=thumbsup.gif>
Observing teachers and certifying their effectiveness sounds to me like one interim step to keep him and others - longer..
The thing is, he's not sure he'll be allowed another work permit. As he's seeing the rules, he's only allowed two work permits before he either takes teacher courses or needs to cease teaching. (Currently, his only teacher's course is TEFL.)
The confusion as to what is required or not - that alone may force him to plan to leave the country. How many others are also caught in this? alt=unsure.png>

I was caught in this situation after two years in a big government school. The school said they very much wanted me to remain and begged me to do the Thai teacher course so that they could keep me. I said that it was not worth the time invested at my age or the fee. They found a way to keep me on and renewed my WP. So it can be done if you are a good teacher, they can do it.

[Soutpeel]

Register with the bureau? For what, exactly? A visa runner visa? A tefl runner visa? To get deported? Hopefully, some clarification will be on its way.

maybe its a clever ploy to get all the dumb ar*ses to turn up and try to register thinking they are getting something for nothing and they will arrest the lot of them, then deport them

[MediaWatcher]

Ayjaydee..

My comment: "That story mentions ONE (1) person, not really enough for you to be correct, in fact the numbers, for ALL of Thailand, are low, so please, show us more realistic numbers, or are you once again trolling."

Your reply: "feel free to show us theyre low"

Thanks for taking the "bait" it is the reply I expected. You say what you want, in order to criticise but unable to substantiate your comment... there's words to describe you, but I fear I'd by banned/suspended. But now all readers know what you are like. A TROLL.

[RHerberth]

So the visa runs and back to back Tourist visas are allowed ?????????

[HooHaa]

sorry i didn't read about any resolution, merely an acknowledgement that there is an issue.

[Arkady]

Then, to stop illegal employment, the Labor Ministry must be responsible for policing schools and other employers, and impose fines and prosecute the owners ofcthose business who allow, and even deceive foreigners into working without a work permit.

I think this is an important point. If Thailand needs foreign English teachers to help boost the appalling standard of English across the whole country and improve its competitiveness for the AEC, it needs to make things much easier for the schools and the teachers to get documented. They already do this for millions of foreign labourers who are permitted to do jobs that are specifically prohibited to foreigners under the Royal Decree on Restricted Occupations. So why not do it for teachers who do a job that is actually permitted for foreigners.

As you say, the legislation needs to revert to targeting the employers more severely than the teachers. Most foreigners would rather be legal but the schools refuse to get them work permits because of the paperwork and expense and because they are not paying taxes properly in the case of private language schools.

The 2008 Working of Aliens Act introduced by the previous military government did absolutely nothing to liberalise the system fo work permits or ensure a free flow of foreign labour to where it was needed by the Thai economy. Its sole achievements were to force foreign labourers to fork out for a repatriation fund and to remove the threat of prison from employers of illegal labour. The previous Act of 1978 proscribed a penalty of up to 3 years in prison and a 60,000 baht fine for employers but this was changed to a fine of 100,000 baht only with no prison sentence in the 2008 Act. Meanwhile, the penalty for working without a WP was increased from 3 months in prison and 10,000 baht to 5 years in prison and 100,000 baht.

The result of this half arsed, protective piece of legislation is the situation we have today, where paperwork and requirements are too rigid for the economy's needs and the penalties against employers of illegal labour are too light and they can easily bribe their way out of trouble.

Let's hope the new military installed government will fix the problem bequeathed by their predecessors.

[Maroon Watcher]

I didn't wade through all replies but anybody changed the wording...

Foreigners (Thais) have been exploiting tourist visas and visas on arrival to (Get foreigners to) work illegally in Thailand,

mostly as English teachers. When their visa is about to expire, they (have to) go to a neighbouring country

for a new visa and return to continue with their illegal (ly operated) jobs.

And the rub is - it's mostly because of laziness, procrastination or...

I am speaking generally as both sides are culpable.

To be positive there is a need for "teacher assistants" who could (?) work with say a 120 hr TEFL

Perhaps earning their Degree (In English ?) through a Thai college or University (Whist working) -

Simple and good business for all.

(Most adults should find a Degree much easier than when they were young -

especially if the course was "adaptable" ...)

[GoonDizzy]

Many are getting the Ed degree or Master's they need. Malaysia has a decent system in place for workers. Two year visa to start and quite quickly you can get five or even ten year visas. However, it's just as difficult to get started out there. Perhaps even more so, but they are looking at their laws too to make things a little easier (atm you enter on a 3 month visitor visa and need to do a visa run to get a WP/Visa). I only know this from a mate out there atm, but he says they are trying do do away with the need for teachers (or any skilled foreign employee in Malaysia) to do the visa run part.

If Malaysia pull that off, then expect those thinking of returning to SE Asia to bypass LOS for KL or Penang. Oh, and in KL Bangkok's 30k becomes 90-120k with a degree in Education.

Phuket for 30k or Penang for 100k? Hmmmm

[animatic]

As to illegal guides, they exist to fill a void in the local system.

So, make it legal for a foreign speaker to pair with a thai guide.

2 benefits ;

the client groups get a leader that they can understand.

The thai partner can start learning the language and cultural ways of the clients.

This would be logical,

which means it will never happen.

[OJAS]

Maybe the Immigration Bureau should also be told to be less flexible in tolerating the imposition of local rules by various offices at extension of stay time!