Prayuth must not forget what Thais want

[thhMan]

The question is wrong.

Its not what Thais want that should be addressed.

Its, what does Thailand need that needs that is the question.

Thais need to maintain their status quo. Live in a bubble ignoring the world and taking full advantage of what that bubble entails, such as politics, law, education and so on.

What Thailand needs is a little bit different, so as the world progresses, human rights are maintained and justice prevails, then Thailand can have the chance to become a nation that very slowly changes with the world and drops the shackles of "done to a minimum" to a "done with excellence".....

Thats my opinion and as much as I love Thailand, the same cannot be said for its native inhabitants...

[Thanet]

What do Thai's want, that is a good question , because I have not seen anyone from this present junta ask any genuine Thai, what do you want, all I have noticed so far, the military have bulldozed the freedom factor and lets face it most wouldn't know about Democracy and what they do know you could print on the back of a postage stamp, the out look for Thailand , Business as usual

It's not up to the junta or even the NCPO, it's up to the NRC and CDC.

But doesn't the NCPO control the NRC and CDC. You talk of them as if they were autonomous.

[Thanet]

What do Thai's want, that is a good question , because I have not seen anyone from this present junta ask any genuine Thai, what do you want, all I have noticed so far, the military have bulldozed the freedom factor and lets face it most wouldn't know about Democracy and what they do know you could print on the back of a postage stamp, the out look for Thailand , Business as usual

All I want is for them to respect my vote.

I think that a lot of Thais want only that.

"respect my vote even after it has been counted and even if I voted for another party"

Anyway, let PM Prayuth with the NLA take care of the day-to-day administration to keep the country running. At the same time help the NRC / CDC to define a broader base for a real democracy in Thailand.

Mere semantics, based on a false interpretation of the word democracy.

How would you define the word democracy?

By definition, democracy depends on the vote of the majority of the citizenry.

Anything else needs another word to describe it.

[tonbridgebrit]

Increasing social awareness and behavior in Thai society would have to be a top priority. Start with the education system. Thais act according to what they have learned and from examples of authorities. Greed, materialism, lack of empathy are characteristics for Thai society today. Just see how they behave on the streets, no respect for each other and definitely not for the law.

"Greed, materialism, lack of empathy are characteristics for Thai society today. Just see how they behave on the streets, no respect for each other and definitely not for the law."

You might as well be talking about England ! And how many Australians feel this same way about Australia ?

[rubl]

What do Thai's want, that is a good question , because I have not seen anyone from this present junta ask any genuine Thai, what do you want, all I have noticed so far, the military have bulldozed the freedom factor and lets face it most wouldn't know about Democracy and what they do know you could print on the back of a postage stamp, the out look for Thailand , Business as usual

All I want is for them to respect my vote.

I think that a lot of Thais want only that.

"respect my vote even after it has been counted and even if I voted for another party"

Anyway, let PM Prayuth with the NLA take care of the day-to-day administration to keep the country running. At the same time help the NRC / CDC to define a broader base for a real democracy in Thailand.

Mere semantics, based on a false interpretation of the word democracy.

How would you define the word democracy?

By definition, democracy depends on the vote of the majority of the citizenry.

Anything else needs another word to describe it.

Only voting doesn't a democracy make, it's just part of it. Some elections see less than half of the electorate (and therefor even less of the citizenry) voting and still those democracies are not in danger.

Anyway, Gen. Prayuth must not forget what Thai want and Thai should not forget to tell the general.

It's only to be hoped that the general will be able to sort out conflicting desires. Luckily the NRC will do that for him.

[tonbridgebrit]

#35, "conflicting desires" ?

Well surely, if more than half of all people are supporting whatever desire, well, that desire should go ahead ?
And if less than half the people desire whatever, then, that particular desire must not go ahead ?

[Robby nz]

#35, "conflicting desires" ?

Well surely, if more than half of all people are supporting whatever desire, well, that desire should go ahead ?

And if less than half the people desire whatever, then, that particular desire must not go ahead ?

That need not be so, the overall good must also be factored in.

If what the majority want will stuff up the economy or international exports then should that want go ahead regardless ? (think of a recent example)

The majority may want the minority kept poor or uneducated so they can be exploited, should that be done ?

Edited August 23, 2014 by Robby nz

[15Peter20]

What do Thai's want, that is a good question , because I have not seen anyone from this present junta ask any genuine Thai, what do you want, all I have noticed so far, the military have bulldozed the freedom factor and lets face it most wouldn't know about Democracy and what they do know you could print on the back of a postage stamp, the out look for Thailand , Business as usual

All I want is for them to respect my vote.

I think that a lot of Thais want only that.

As in all things, you earn respect, when you show me that you respect your own vote well enough to use it responsibly, i'll respect it. Voting for thugs, thieves and scoff laws isn't going to cut it.

Do you have to earn your human rights too? Or are we still knuckle-dragging jungle inhabitants?

[h90]

Okay, okay, raise the minimum wage a little bit. How many Thais will put their hand up for this ?

What about all those Cambodians here ? Some are legal, some are illegal. Okay, all of them, send them back home to Cambodia. This might jack up pay for the Thais who are doing jobs for under 300/400 baht a day. How many Thais will put their hands up for this ?

Now then, IF more Thais put their hands up for these ideas than those who have their hands down, well, surely, that's what the Thais want. Well, most of them, anyway.

Right, show of hands please !

Well direct democracy works very well in Switzerland. And people vote against lower taxes, or vote that the country saves money.

Trying to design a democracy where people can vote for some faces (like in Germany or UK or more extreme in USA) but have no influence on the politics is actually a backdoor to dictatorship.

[ramrod711]

What do Thai's want, that is a good question , because I have not seen anyone from this present junta ask any genuine Thai, what do you want, all I have noticed so far, the military have bulldozed the freedom factor and lets face it most wouldn't know about Democracy and what they do know you could print on the back of a postage stamp, the out look for Thailand , Business as usual

All I want is for them to respect my vote.

I think that a lot of Thais want only that.

As in all things, you earn respect, when you show me that you respect your own vote well enough to use it responsibly, i'll respect it. Voting for thugs, thieves and scoff laws isn't going to cut it.

Do you have to earn your human rights too? Or are we still knuckle-dragging jungle inhabitants?

Good question, bit complicated though. Are you talking about your right to cast a vote or my right to protest peacefully without being maimed and killed by grenades? What about the rights of people to rally for the political party of their choice? Not in the North where Democratic Party rallies were bombarded with sound from trucks, red shirts threw bottles, stones, potted plants, nuts bolts etc. Who was looking after respecting their votes, not Thanet that's for sure. Respect my vote, a red shirt slogan is all that is.

[Dogmatix]

What do Thai's want, that is a good question , because I have not seen anyone from this present junta ask any genuine Thai, what do you want, all I have noticed so far, the military have bulldozed the freedom factor and lets face it most wouldn't know about Democracy and what they do know you could print on the back of a postage stamp, the out look for Thailand , Business as usual

A large group of them want Thaksin and his family back to rule the country. Another large group of them wants to ensure that Thaksin and his family can never get back into the driving seat.

[fab4]

What do Thai's want, that is a good question , because I have not seen anyone from this present junta ask any genuine Thai, what do you want, all I have noticed so far, the military have bulldozed the freedom factor and lets face it most wouldn't know about Democracy and what they do know you could print on the back of a postage stamp, the out look for Thailand , Business as usual

A large group of them want Thaksin and his family back to rule the country. Another large group of them wants to ensure that Thaksin and his family can never get back into the driving seat.

And the largest group of all of them had no say at all on who is running the country now. That is what is being forgotten.

Edited August 23, 2014 by fab4

[MaxYakov]

The Thai people must want "Peace" and "Order". Why else would they name the NCPO thusly? Or were those the desires of the junta? In any event, I don't see the term "Prosperity" mentioned so are we to assume that the Thai people don't desire "Prosperity"?

Or is someone thinking for them? This would not be a totally unbelievable situation, in my view.

An afterthought: "Law" and "Order" and "Peace" and "Prosperity" are in my experience the most commonly seen combinatorial pairs w/r a desired state of affairs. Somehow both "Law" and "Prosperity" have not been mentioned. Do you suppose something might have been lost in the translation of NCPO from the Thai (assuming that its base name is in Thai)?

Edited August 23, 2014 by MaxYakov

[tonbridgebrit]

#35, "conflicting desires" ?

Well surely, if more than half of all people are supporting whatever desire, well, that desire should go ahead ?

And if less than half the people desire whatever, then, that particular desire must not go ahead ?

That need not be so, the overall good must also be factored in.

If what the majority want will stuff up the economy or international exports then should that want go ahead regardless ? (think of a recent example)

The majority may want the minority kept poor or uneducated so they can be exploited, should that be done ?

Wait a minute.

"The majority may want the minority kept poor or uneducated so they can be exploited".

How about the minority may want the majority kept poor or poorly educated so they can be exploited ?

Who are the majority, and who are the minority ? Who are the bigger group, and who are the smaller group ?

Are there more 'peasants' than rich people ? Are there more working-class people than middle-class people ? Are there more people who are un-skilled and semi-skilled workers than those who are highly skilled and highly paid ?

[Thanet]

Good question, bit complicated though. Are you talking about your right to cast a vote or my right to protest peacefully without being maimed and killed by grenades? What about the rights of people to rally for the political party of their choice? Not in the North where Democratic Party rallies were bombarded with sound from trucks, red shirts threw bottles, stones, potted plants, nuts bolts etc. Who was looking after respecting their votes, not Thanet that's for sure. Respect my vote, a red shirt slogan is all that is.

Nobody should be allowed to protest violently. All sides were just as guilty as each other in that regard. The police should have been allowed to enforce the law and arrest violent protesters on both sides, bit the army didn't allow them to do that.

It's interesting that you would see this as a just reason to deny the citizenry their constitutional right to vote though. I don't see how one justifies the other. By his own boasting admission, this course of action was what Suthep agreed with the general before this latest insurrection started.

[Thanet]

"respect my vote even after it has been counted and even if I voted for another party"

Anyway, let PM Prayuth with the NLA take care of the day-to-day administration to keep the country running. At the same time help the NRC / CDC to define a broader base for a real democracy in Thailand.

Mere semantics, based on a false interpretation of the word democracy.

How would you define the word democracy?

By definition, democracy depends on the vote of the majority of the citizenry.

Anything else needs another word to describe it.

Only voting doesn't a democracy make, it's just part of it. Some elections see less than half of the electorate (and therefor even less of the citizenry) voting and still those democracies are not in danger.

Anyway, Gen. Prayuth must not forget what Thai want and Thai should not forget to tell the general.

It's only to be hoped that the general will be able to sort out conflicting desires. Luckily the NRC will do that for him.

True, a democracy entails freedom of opinion expression too. All the more reason why it's a poor choice of a word to describe the present set of circumstances.

[Halion]

I think that it is ludicrous to ask what the Thai people want. It is what the Thai people need in order to participate in a developing environment.

Critical to success is to give the people equality both socially and at work, uniform justice and an enforcement branch that is transparent,diligent and devoid of corruption.

The majority of Thai's that I know are only interested in the micro that impacts them personally and not the macro that emboldens the whole country..

Culture, greed, lack of education and indifference are the elements that would comprise what the people want and you can not form a democracy out of those.

[Thai at Heart]

#35, "conflicting desires" ?

Well surely, if more than half of all people are supporting whatever desire, well, that desire should go ahead ?

And if less than half the people desire whatever, then, that particular desire must not go ahead ?

That need not be so, the overall good must also be factored in.

If what the majority want will stuff up the economy or international exports then should that want go ahead regardless ? (think of a recent example)

The majority may want the minority kept poor or uneducated so they can be exploited, should that be done ?

Wait a minute.

"The majority may want the minority kept poor or uneducated so they can be exploited".

How about the minority may want the majority kept poor or poorly educated so they can be exploited ?

Who are the majority, and who are the minority ? Who are the bigger group, and who are the smaller group ?

Are there more 'peasants' than rich people ? Are there more working-class people than middle-class people ? Are there more people who are un-skilled and semi-skilled workers than those who are highly skilled and highly paid ?

No one voted for the government to stuff up the economy.

The argument that the army should step in every time it might happen that the economy is in trouble is ludicrous. Bush, blair and plenty others wouldn't have got past their first 6 months by that measure.

[mikemac]

I know a lot of Thai's across the community from fairly High So's to the dirt poorest people living in unsanitary old wooden homes in the sticks. I've not met one yet who is truly interested in what's best for the country; their main priority is what's best for them personally and/or their families. Getting enough money to improve lives is the main theme, and lets be honest, that's the main interest in just about any country. After all; when you lived in your own country did you spend much time thinking about 'what's best for the country ' ? I doubt it because personal survival always comes first.

In short; people want more money in their pockets to do things that will improve their lifestyles and unless any Government can provide enough of it and the ways and means of getting it honestly, the cycle of corruption and general unhappiness will continue.

I took special notice of the bit - ........................."unless any Government can provide enough of it and the ways and means of getting it honestly"........................

I guess that rules out any party with any association at all to the Shinawatra regime.

And I don't agree with your thought that all Thais are only interested in themselves and not the good of the country. I have heard lots of Thais comment on the fact that some of the deeds done by the General are good for the country. There seems to be a lot of posters on TVF who don't have a very high opinion of the Thai people and it makes me wonder why these people want to live in Thailand if it is so bad. People are funny.

[rubl]

"respect my vote even after it has been counted and even if I voted for another party"

Anyway, let PM Prayuth with the NLA take care of the day-to-day administration to keep the country running. At the same time help the NRC / CDC to define a broader base for a real democracy in Thailand.

Mere semantics, based on a false interpretation of the word democracy.

How would you define the word democracy?

By definition, democracy depends on the vote of the majority of the citizenry.

Anything else needs another word to describe it.

Only voting doesn't a democracy make, it's just part of it. Some elections see less than half of the electorate (and therefor even less of the citizenry) voting and still those democracies are not in danger.

Anyway, Gen. Prayuth must not forget what Thai want and Thai should not forget to tell the general.

It's only to be hoped that the general will be able to sort out conflicting desires. Luckily the NRC will do that for him.

True, a democracy entails freedom of opinion expression too. All the more reason why it's a poor choice of a word to describe the present set of circumstances.

It would seem only those who want to go back to the failed democracy Thailand was consider to describe the current situation as 'democratic' only to allow them to point out that it isn't.

Well, let me help you, the current situation isn't like 'democratic'. It's full of restrictions to prevent the seven months chaos from continuing. To prevent politicians to continue the 'but the others' rhetoric. To help get Thailand restarted.

If you are Thai I would have thought you'd be happy that with the NRC and CDC Thais can voice there ideas on reforms and constitution. Can help informulation. Assuming most Thais can agree on something, Thailand can then move forward.

[Thai at Heart]

As someone mentioned, its not what they want that's important but what they need.

This really is a case of giving fish or teaching to fish.. Reform the law, reform the civil service, reform education etc etc.

Reality is, this takes 20 years not 20 months, because it needs to be watched and nurtured for years not weeks. Its like raising a child.

Thais have been spoilt and without any discipline for a long time. They have been free to make money anywhich way they want or how.

Now the teacher with the big stick is in town and rules are coming back to the game. They are waiting for the teacher to move on.

Edited August 23, 2014 by Thai at Heart

[lvr181]

I know a lot of Thai's across the community from fairly High So's to the dirt poorest people living in unsanitary old wooden homes in the sticks. I've not met one yet who is truly interested in what's best for the country; their main priority is what's best for them personally and/or their families. Getting enough money to improve lives is the main theme, and lets be honest, that's the main interest in just about any country. After all; when you lived in your own country did you spend much time thinking about 'what's best for the country ' ? I doubt it because personal survival always comes first.

In short; people want more money in their pockets to do things that will improve their lifestyles and unless any Government can provide enough of it and the ways and means of getting it honestly, the cycle of corruption and general unhappiness will continue.

Well Trainman, easy to see that your glass is half empty.. get a life mate..

The usual of crap about "half empty and half full glasses"! A glass is always full. Don't have a go at Trainman (and I don't know him from a bar of soap) - perhaps you need to improve your education?

But I do know many Thai who are truly interested in their country and not just themselves.

[rubl]

And the largest group of all of them had no say at all on who is running the country now. That is what is being forgotten.

With Pheu Thai having got 34% of the electorate voting for them in 2011, it would indeed seem that for a while already the largest group had no say in who would be running the country for them.

That seems to be forgotten.

[billd766]

What do Thai's want, that is a good question , because I have not seen anyone from this present junta ask any genuine Thai, what do you want, all I have noticed so far, the military have bulldozed the freedom factor and lets face it most wouldn't know about Democracy and what they do know you could print on the back of a postage stamp, the out look for Thailand , Business as usual

How many Thai people have you spoken with to come up with this opinion?

[billd766]

In short, the NCPO cannot let itself be corrupted. It cannot abuse its power. The reform process will certainly involve a lot of people and there will be things and ideas that even Prayuth cannot control. What he can control is the NCPO itself, and now his Cabinet. The coup-makers must set good examples, stay away from temptation, heed the calls for assets declaration - and never be mistaken about what the people truly want.

Agreed, surely it isn't too much to ask for this group to put personal gain on the back burner, to spend a few years, at a decent salary, trying to make their country a better place for all Thais.

How on earth will you know if the coup makers don't stay away from temptation?

You've heard what they say about power, and absolute power?

I have and I witnessed it under the TRT/PPP/TRT, all of them under Thaksin.

[billd766]

Good question, bit complicated though. Are you talking about your right to cast a vote or my right to protest peacefully without being maimed and killed by grenades? What about the rights of people to rally for the political party of their choice? Not in the North where Democratic Party rallies were bombarded with sound from trucks, red shirts threw bottles, stones, potted plants, nuts bolts etc. Who was looking after respecting their votes, not Thanet that's for sure. Respect my vote, a red shirt slogan is all that is.

Nobody should be allowed to protest violently. All sides were just as guilty as each other in that regard. The police should have been allowed to enforce the law and arrest violent protesters on both sides, bit the army didn't allow them to do that.

It's interesting that you would see this as a just reason to deny the citizenry their constitutional right to vote though. I don't see how one justifies the other. By his own boasting admission, this course of action was what Suthep agreed with the general before this latest insurrection started.

Where were the police in 2010? Where were the the police in 2013/4. They sure as hell weren't out on the streets enforcing the law against the demonstrators were they? While in both instances the demonstrators had the democratic rights to protestthey didn't have the rights to do what both sides did.

[lvr181]

Good question, bit complicated though. Are you talking about your right to cast a vote or my right to protest peacefully without being maimed and killed by grenades? What about the rights of people to rally for the political party of their choice? Not in the North where Democratic Party rallies were bombarded with sound from trucks, red shirts threw bottles, stones, potted plants, nuts bolts etc. Who was looking after respecting their votes, not Thanet that's for sure. Respect my vote, a red shirt slogan is all that is.

Nobody should be allowed to protest violently. All sides were just as guilty as each other in that regard. The police should have been allowed to enforce the law and arrest violent protesters on both sides, bit the army didn't allow them to do that.

It's interesting that you would see this as a just reason to deny the citizenry their constitutional right to vote though. I don't see how one justifies the other. By his own boasting admission, this course of action was what Suthep agreed with the general before this latest insurrection started.

Where were the police in 2010? Where were the the police in 2013/4. They sure as hell weren't out on the streets enforcing the law against the demonstrators were they? While in both instances the demonstrators had the democratic rights to protestthey didn't have the rights to do what both sides did.

\Were the Police not being paid by the demonstrators, hence the non involvement of Police?

And talking about demonstrators, what ever happened to Suthep and all the "donations" he received? Did he ever publicly declare what he did with the money? Maybe he is quietly spending it?

[Robby nz]

#35, "conflicting desires" ?

Well surely, if more than half of all people are supporting whatever desire, well, that desire should go ahead ?

And if less than half the people desire whatever, then, that particular desire must not go ahead ?

That need not be so, the overall good must also be factored in.

If what the majority want will stuff up the economy or international exports then should that want go ahead regardless ? (think of a recent example)

The majority may want the minority kept poor or uneducated so they can be exploited, should that be done ?

Wait a minute.

"The majority may want the minority kept poor or uneducated so they can be exploited".

How about the minority may want the majority kept poor or poorly educated so they can be exploited ?

Who are the majority, and who are the minority ? Who are the bigger group, and who are the smaller group ?

Are there more 'peasants' than rich people ? Are there more working-class people than middle-class people ? Are there more people who are un-skilled and semi-skilled workers than those who are highly skilled and highly paid ?

So you have just debunked your own post, things are not that simple are they.

[ggt]

Thainess demands that fault be found with every decision...I believe the PM has enough experience and self-confidence to work thru the malcontents and blowhards...quit spending all your time looking for a bogie-man...give the man a chance to make a difference before you pounce on his every word and decision...

[mikemac]

What is more important is that Prayuth must not forget what Thaksin wants, ie. to return to Thailand with his criminal record wiped clean and become #1 leader in all ways. The revenge he seeks will take years to fulfill.