Retirees, are you worried that the rules might change?

[biplanebluey]

Ubonjoe, I am optimistic but also realistic. I am not talking about possible changes to the visa rules in the next year or so, but perhaps 20 years in the future, and none of us can know what will happen.

But based on the history of 'retirement' visas, and the general rules regarding issue of visas to foreigners, do you really think it is likely that there will be no changes to the rules, or that the requirements will be eased?

IMHO,, I do not think for 1 second that the visa rules will remain unchanged or will be eased.in the future. The logical assumption is that they will be made stricter, to what degree or how is unknown.

I,m sorry Simon but that is exactly what you are doing----Scaremongering.You are putting assumptions forward without a scrap of evidence to back any of it up.I am on a retirement Visa ,I am happy with all the requirements and if anything changes I will face that when it comes.Until then I will carry on getting heaps of enjoyment from my new life for the last7 yrs------ and I suggest you do the same !!!!!!!!!!!!

[Johnniey]

In all my years here, one thing has remained constant. As long as Immigration Police remain corrupt, there will always be an easy way to get a visa. I'm shocked to hear a longtime hotel owner and tourist police volunteer, who once earned 1 million baht a month worry about not getting a visa.

[khunerik]

The only thing that would worry me are health issues. Even if I have an Insurance.

[Jip99]

I can understand your concerns, especialy with a new PM, who wants to impress, but i do think that Thailand prefers old uns like me

Ubonjoe, I a

In 2 years i will be 65, so i only have to show my government pension, and nothing else, a bit silly, i know,so i will not need an extension for retirement, and show 800,000 baht

does that mean your government pension is 65,000 Baht (USD 2,040, GBP 1,230, €UR 1,540, AUD 2,200, NZD 2,440)?

BF is talking about visas not extensions.

4) Visiting Thailand as Pensioner aged 65 and over.

Evidence required:

a) Current “DWP Pension Statement” showing receipt of UK State Pension (no minimum

necessary).

Either a single or multiple entry visa may be granted in these circumstances.

---------------->

That is not a one year visa/extension - which is what this thread is about. What you get from Hull is a visa for 60days - maybe x2.

this is a 1 year single or multiple 0 based on being 65 years or older

read again

Visiting Thailand as Pensioner aged 65 and over

this thread is about living in Thailand and not temporarily visiting with a visa that requires visa runs.

Now you are compounding your ignorance.

Many people live in Thailand on 'O' visas. It is not a case of visa runs but simply leaving the kingdom every 90 days. I did that for 7 years and took the opportunity to visit neighbouring countries.

Offshore workers and contract workers are typical of examples of where a Non 'O' visa has suited them well.

Edited August 24, 2014 by Jip99

[Tchooptip]

I see no point in this thread

Not sure I see much more in your answer

[bangkoklasse]

Ubonjoe, I am optimistic but also realistic. I am not talking about possible changes to the visa rules in the next year or so, but perhaps 20 years in the future, and none of us can know what will happen.

But based on the history of 'retirement' visas, and the general rules regarding issue of visas to foreigners, do you really think it is likely that there will be no changes to the rules, or that the requirements will be eased?

IMHO,, I do not think for 1 second that the visa rules will remain unchanged or will be eased.in the future. The logical assumption is that they will be made stricter, to what degree or how is unknown.

I can understand your concerns, especialy with a new PM, who wants to impress, but i do think that Thailand prefers old uns like me

In 2 years i will be 65, so i only have to show my government pension, and nothing else, a bit silly, i know,so i will not need an extension for retirement, and show 800,000 baht

does that mean your government pension is 65,000 Baht (USD 2,040, GBP 1,230, €UR 1,540, AUD 2,200, NZD 2,440)?

Nearly all people that have been working in my home country (Sweden) will have that or more in a Government pension

[Jip99]

Where does all the money in Thailand come from ?

We are told retirees contribute next to nothing.

Tourist contribute next to nothing.

Expat business contribute next to nothing.

Do these rice farmers really put so much into the economy that no outsider is needed?

P.S. What is the difference between a western and a Chinese retiree?

I have several friends come here twice a year on holiday, add the expenditure of all of them into a 12 month period wouldn't even be a fraction of what I spend and I am by no means any sort of big spender - probably about 50k baht per month x12 600k baht a year and that does not include my 2x a year trip home, I don't include that as it is not income to Thailand

I also know many other expats living here who must be spending the same or more than me, there are many businesses that rely on the expat community for survival

The message here is - do not underestimate the income Thailand earns from it's expat community - it is steady reliable and sizeable

.... and growing.

[gamini]

Most of the replies to this topic have overlooked the fact that retirees are worth far more to the country than tourists. I think the government realises this. Malaysia and other countries are trying very hard to get more people to retire to thier countries. If anything I think the conditions required for retirement will be made easier and more attractive.

There is also the humanitarean factor. I have been told that under certain circumstances the immigration department can be flexable when it comes to dealing with very old retirees who have problems. This is not something ordinary immigration officers can deal but a humanitarean appeal to the top immigration officer would probably be favourably dealt with.

[Tchooptip]

I personally think Thailand should require from all retirees proof of income of at least 65,000 baht/month (which is about 800,000 baht/year) and get rid of the 800,000 baht in a bank account rule. Right now, there are way too many people on a tiny pension who choose to live here and do not significantly contribute to the economy.

what's wrong with a retiree who spends his "tiny pension" in Thailand without being a burden on Thai public spending?

Because they are usually the ones you see either walking around in a wifebeater or glued to a barstool from 10AM til midnight. Not really the type of quality tourists/foreigners Thailand wants to attract.

You talk a load of nonsense, how can a retiree on a small pension afford to be glued to a barstool from 10am till midnight?

Because a retiree on a high pension would waste his time glued to a bar stool from 10am till midnight ? Not

Edited August 24, 2014 by Tchooptip

[Chicken George]

If you are concerned then perhaps you should hedge your bets, perhaps make a retirement visa your Plan A, just decide what your Plan B is. FWIW my plan A is continued retirement in Thailand but I've just bought a small flat in Somerset which I will use as a base for two or three months each year. The holding cost of the flat is negligible, community charge and lease/ground rent charges, about £140 a month which is offset by other gains - it offers a fallback in case the Thailand wheel falls off but also provides for new experiences and travel opportunities.

Yes I think its always good to have a plan B. Property in your home country is defo if you can afford it. But maybe we cannot afford not to. I myself Plan to stay here to the end but you never know. PS You are just over the border from me. I have my property in Wilts by the Somerset border.. I let mine and that would be my advise to most people. Don't buy here unless you have kids. But as they say its up to you.

[paddyjenkins]

all your questions are sorry but very stupid, as by law you cant change the requirements what are set up already,

you can change only for future retirements, people who are here cant be forced to make visa runs or have more money,

some of the retire people who came here in the 90´th or before they have only mto show 200000 Baht,

if your time is so bouring over weekend, may be you should start playing golf or online poker

and not ask something what cant happend

Simon, at first I thought your questions were excellent and quite sensible as consideration of future possible changes that may feasibly impact certain potential and existing retirees.

But after reading the wise and eloquent words of SiggiCM I have changed my mind. In fact, all your questions are sorry but very stupid, you cant change the requirements what are already set up, if your time is so bouring then play online poker, and not ask something what cant happened.

I may change my mind back again later.

Edited August 24, 2014 by paddyjenkins

[bertty]

Most of the replies to this topic have overlooked the fact that retirees are worth far more to the country than tourists. I think the government realises this. Malaysia and other countries are trying very hard to get more people to retire to thier countries. If anything I think the conditions required for retirement will be made easier and more attractive.

There is also the humanitarean factor. I have been told that under certain circumstances the immigration department can be flexable when it comes to dealing with very old retirees who have problems. This is not something ordinary immigration officers can deal but a humanitarean appeal to the top immigration officer would probably be favourably dealt with.

I am afraid I don't agree, both sorts are needed in equal measure.

I would imagine most of the people who are retired in Thailand first came here as tourists, so without one you wouldn't get the other.

There is no need to try and be better.

[quandow]

The sky is falling!!! The sky is falling!!!

[larsjohnsson]

The main thing that would make me leave would be if Thailand started taxing me on my worldwide income as opposed to just my Thai income (which is zero). If that happened I would probably be gone long before the dust settled anyway.

Anyone who stays in Thailand more than 180 days in a calendar year is a tax resident in Thailand in that calendar year, and is eligible to pay tax on all his/her income, wherever it is generated. There may be double-taxation agreements that come into play, but that is the general rule.

You may be rather be referring to enforcement, which is a different matter.

But no tax on your pension. Which probably is the most common income for retired people

[JesseFrank]

- What if the sum required to show in the bank/monthly pension was increased by 20%

- What if you were required to actually spend your 800,000 baht every year, not just show the same amount in your bank account?

- What is the age of eligibility for this visa type were raised to 65 years old?

- What if you need to make a visa-run at 90 years old???

What if the sun sinks in the sea tomorrow.

[JLCrab]

all your questions are sorry but very stupid, as by law you cant change the requirements what are set up already,

you can change only for future retirements, people who are here cant be forced to make visa runs or have more money,

some of the retire people who came here in the 90´th or before they have only mto show 200000 Baht,

if your time is so bouring over weekend, may be you should start playing golf or online poker

and not ask something what cant happend

Simon, at first I thought your questions were excellent and quite sensible as consideration of future possible changes that may feasibly impact certain potential and existing retirees.

But after reading the wise and eloquent words of SiggiCM I have changed my mind. In fact, all your questions are sorry but very stupid, you cant change the requirements what are already set up, if your time is so bouring then play online poker, and not ask something what cant happened.

I may change my mind back again later.

Actually a government can make law revisions applicable to all. The fact that a government will often exempt those currently complying with and operating under the existing conditions is a courtesy; not an obligation.

[smedly]

- What if the sum required to show in the bank/monthly pension was increased by 20%

- What if you were required to actually spend your 800,000 baht every year, not just show the same amount in your bank account?

- What is the age of eligibility for this visa type were raised to 65 years old?

- What if you need to make a visa-run at 90 years old???

What if the sun sinks in the sea tomorrow.

I have to ask again what is the point of this thread

Listening to a few people that have no clue what they are talking about

Listening to people that are basically starting what amounts to rumours (what if my shit don't smell)

As far as I can tell this is one big trolling exorcise

Lets close this and get back to discussing facts that we know and not what people are dreaming up for effect - stupid nonsense

[Thakkar]

Simon,

Think of it this way: having the time to worry about something that may happen twenty years hence while not being in any sort of near term danger worth being concerned about is a tremendous luxury. Count your blessings and just enjoy this little harmless worrisome reverie.

T

[lucjoker]

The 800k in the bank, if you are not spending it already what money are you living on ?

He probably has more income than 800k /year,seems a strange situation to you?

[Ace of Pop]

Id like to know how not to spend 800K. P.A. short of Murdering Mrs Pop and 2 Kids.

[JLCrab]

There are facts that are of interest as to how the situation was handled the last time the requirements for retirement extension were made and how they have been addressed in the current revised Police Order.

Speculating as to when and if such revision might again occur is just that.

[larsjohnsson]

I have seen nothing to make me think there is any impending changes. In fact the new police order that goes into effect on the 29th has no changes for retirement extensions.

In my opinion there will never be another change to the age to qualify. Nor a requirement to spend the money here.

I cannot see them raising the financial requirements any time soon. It is already well above what is needed to live here.

I have a concern that the finacial qualifications might well change in line with inflation. The last time was quite a shock when it was raised from 200,000 to 800,000.. If a similar rise were to be enforced now, I and, I suspect many others would be in trouble.

If a similar rise and change as the last time, were to be enforced next month or next year. Nobody staying here on 800k would be in trouble

[simon43]

you cant change the requirements what are already set up

If by 'you', you mean 'me', then I never suggested that I could.

If by 'you', you mean 'one', (which could imply the government in power), then the requirements that are already set up could certainly be changed.

My intention is not to scaremonger, but to sensibly discuss what changes might occur in the future which could affect the 'security' of foreign retirees in Thailand, whether that be due to changes in the visa rules or perhaps changes in the requirements that all retirees have medical insurance etc

From the responses in this thread, I understand that many of you feel that nothing can go wrong with your retirement in Thailand as far as visa/rules are concerned. I very much hope that your optimism is well-founded.

Update:

My way of thinking is akin to obtaining a degree whilst you are a young student. You might not need it later on in life, but it is much easier to obtain whilst you are young with an active brain.

Same with living in Thailand. It is a lot easier to position yourself for PR or citizenship, (which virtually assures your security in Thailand) before you stop working, (of course, this doesn't apply if you are already retired and don't wish to work in Thailand). So one of my considerations is whether those of us who are not yet retired should actively seek PR or citizenship, rather than rely on 1-year visa extensions and the possibility of more stringent visa requirements.

Edited August 24, 2014 by simon43

[larsjohnsson]

The 800k in the bank, if you are not spending it already what money are you living on ?

I am sure there are some retirees who have 800k THB in a bank account but can't afford it too spend so much money. If they will start to add a new regulation that you have to show proof that you will send every year 800k THB from abroad to get another year extension this will probably break the neck of many old fellas.

They could buy the elite card and still have 300k left Edited August 24, 2014 by larsjohnsson

[JLCrab]

That might not be true that anyone today on extension via retirement are not affected -- only those who have been 'consecutively' on extensions of stay via retirement from say 3 years prior to the revision in financial requirements might be exempted from any changes.

Edited August 24, 2014 by JLCrab

[ZAKY]

This is a question for those foreigners who intend to live in Thailand until their dying day.

As I edge closer to 'mature' years, I am getting a little concerned about the long-term viability of a visa extension based on retirement, the visa type that most of us older expats use to legally stay in this country.

Right now, this type of visa extension allows a mere 365 days of stay, based on proof of finances/pension etc.

I don't think it is outside the realms of possibility that the regulations concerning this visa extension type may change in the future, and very likely not for the better.

- What if the sum required to show in the bank/monthly pension was increased by 20%

- What if you were required to actually spend your 800,000 baht every year, not just show the same amount in your bank account?

- What is the age of eligibility for this visa type were raised to 65 years old?

- What if you need to make a visa-run at 90 years old???

I'm not scare-mongering, but considering very possible situations, especially considering the fact that Thailand is a lot closer (socially/economically etc) to China and ASEAN. In the future years, being an old 'whitey' in Thailand might not carry much weight....

For myself, I would jump at the chance to obtain Thai citizenship, to assure my future in Thailand. Unfortunately, being divorced from my Thai wife seems to remove the opportunity to apply for citizenship, even though I have a Thai child born within wedlock. (Yes, PR is a route to citizenship for single male foreigners, but I think some who applied more than 6 years ago are still waiting......)

Does anyone share the same concerns about 'retirement visas' as I?

Im on my third year of visa extension and the total of days i spent in Thailand are about 60 yes aprroximately 2 months most of time my Thai girlfriend and myself we are away from Thailand and when i am here, i stay in my own condo or hotels not even her house to stay. For any medicals i go to Bangkok Hospital or Bumrungrad. I beleive that any change will not have any incidence on my life.

[NativeSon360]

In my 37 years living in Thailand I have gone through a variety of visa types and witnessed many changes along the way but experience has taught me that things work out and worry is a waste of time. I do remember worrying a bit during the first ten years or so, when I was still young and inexperienced, but I got over that phase.

37 years of living in the Land of 1000 Smiles? A commemorative monument ,in recognition of your ability to persevere "against all odds", should be built in your name. You must be as durable, as the Sphinx of Egypt.

[SoFarAndNear]

The 800k in the bank, if you are not spending it already what money are you living on ?

I am sure there are some retirees who have 800k THB in a bank account but can't afford it too spend so much money. If they will start to add a new regulation that you have to show proof that you will send every year 800k THB from abroad to get another year extension this will probably break the neck of many old fellas.

Please explain how someone could prove spending 800,000 a year? Would I need to start asking for a receipt for the 2 baht pee or poo I took ?

I don't say proof of spending. I mean proof of bringing another 800k from abroad after the first year when you apply for the second year.

Just as easy. Send the 800,000 back to your home bank, then resubmit it when needed. No proof of spending, no proof of where it went.

Ever wire money outside Thailand or to Thailand. If other currency is envolved expect a good 10% loss.

[larsjohnsson]

you cant change the requirements what are already set up

If by 'you', you mean 'me', then I never suggested that I could.

If by 'you', you mean 'one', (which could imply the government in power), then the requirements that are already set up could certainly be changed.

My intention is not to scaremonger, but to sensibly discuss what changes might occur in the future which could affect the 'security' of foreign retirees in Thailand, whether that be due to changes in the visa rules or perhaps changes in the requirements that all retirees have medical insurance etc

From the responses in this thread, I understand that many of you feel that nothing can go wrong with your retirement in Thailand as far as visa/rules are concerned. I very much hope that your optimism is well-founded.

Update:

My way of thinking is akin to obtaining a degree whilst you are a young student. You might not need it later on in life, but it is much easier to obtain whilst you are young with an active brain.

Same with living in Thailand. It is a lot easier to position yourself for PR or citizenship, (which virtually assures your security in Thailand) before you stop working, (of course, this doesn't apply if you are already retired and don't wish to work in Thailand). So one of my considerations is whether those of us who are not yet retired should actively seek PR or citizenship, rather than rely on 1-year visa extensions and the possibility of more stringent visa requirements.

They could change the rules for PR or citizenship as easy as for retirement. You are very naive if you belive in those huge changes for the retirees. And at the same time belives that everything would stay the same for other people staying here

[paddyjenkins]

you cant change the requirements what are already set up

If by 'you', you mean 'me', then I never suggested that I could.

If by 'you', you mean 'one', (which could imply the government in power), then the requirements that are already set up could certainly be changed.

My intention is not to scaremonger, but to sensibly discuss what changes might occur in the future which could affect the 'security' of foreign retirees in Thailand, whether that be due to changes in the visa rules or perhaps changes in the requirements that all retirees have medical insurance etc

From the responses in this thread, I understand that many of you feel that nothing can go wrong with your retirement in Thailand as far as visa/rules are concerned. I very much hope that your optimism is well-founded.

....

Simon, everything you've said makes sense. I think the changes you've listed could easily be implemented and some of them probably will be, the most likely being the 800,000 baht funding or the monthly income equivalent. But timing of the changes is hard to guess. They could happen next month or it may take years. If and when they are implemented the rug will be pulled out from under the feet of quite a few retirees.

Meanwhile, do you really expect to receive a set of civil and logical responses on this forum? Just read the responses, most of the posters wouldn't know a reasoned response if it was stuck up their behind and most are borderline illiterates. To these people there is no difference between maybe can happen and will happen, they can't understand the concept of probability or the hypothetical. And if it hasn't happened yet they can't imagine it can happen. By proposing something as a possibility they think you are claiming it is about to happen right now, or that you yourself are going to do it. There is no nuance to their thinking, they just don't possess the intellectual machinery to think through possibilities about the future, to weigh up risks and concepts of change. If it isn't happening right this second, right in their faces, they just think, no worries, time for another beer Chang. Or to them its like you've claimed the sun won't rise tomorrow, or it will sink into the sea. You'd be better off trying to converse with a monkey or just beat you head against a brick wall.

Edited August 24, 2014 by paddyjenkins