Retirees, are you worried that the rules might change?

[joshstiles]

"I'm not scare-mongering, "

oh really....then you are a troll.....but of course since you have zillions of post....your are favored on this site.

[larsjohnsson]

I'm not retired yet but I'm not too concerned if I were on a retirement visa. I can always go back to the free healthcare system in my home country if I get too old to take care of myself. And I wouldnt want to die in Thailand anyway, my bones would not be happy about that.

Under government retirement age, and you will have to wait 6 months to get free healthcare in England, upon your return.

But 95% of the retired people here are not from England

[larsjohnsson]

The bigger worry might be from your own Governments. They may decide to cut the pension off for non-residents.

Can't happen you say?

Australia has done it.

6 weeks overseas and that's it. Plus a few other conditions - must have been in country for the 2 years prior to applying and then the level is tested on how long you were actually in country overall. Less time in country then the less the OAP.

They are even looking at cutting off the disability pension to some of our people currently chopping peoples heads off in the Middle East. Wow, what a concept!!

Lets think about the pension rationally. The Government pays the pension with (current) taxpayers money. They would rather keep this money in the local economy.

Forget the nonsense about "I worked for a hundred years and I'm entitled to it". That is irrelevant. When you worked you were paying taxes to support the people already on the pension.

Same same.

Maybe true in your home country but not in mine. In my country they employer pay 18,5% of your monthly salary to the government pension. You get your own pension account that you can login at. And also invest some of those moneys in stocks or pension fonds. You can decide when and how much you like to withdraw within certain limits every year when starting your retirement.

[biplanebluey]

you cant change the requirements what are already set up

If by 'you', you mean 'me', then I never suggested that I could.

If by 'you', you mean 'one', (which could imply the government in power), then the requirements that are already set up could certainly be changed.

My intention is not to scaremonger, but to sensibly discuss what changes might occur in the future which could affect the 'security' of foreign retirees in Thailand, whether that be due to changes in the visa rules or perhaps changes in the requirements that all retirees have medical insurance etc

From the responses in this thread, I understand that many of you feel that nothing can go wrong with your retirement in Thailand as far as visa/rules are concerned. I very much hope that your optimism is well-founded.

....

Simon, everything you've said makes sense. I think the changes you've listed could easily be implemented and some of them probably will be, the most likely being the 800,000 baht funding or the monthly income equivalent. But timing of the changes is hard to guess. They could happen next month or it may take years. If and when they are implemented the rug will be pulled out from under the feet of quite a few retirees.

Meanwhile, do you really expect to receive a set of civil and logical responses on this forum? Just read the responses, most of the posters wouldn't know a reasoned response if it was stuck up their behind and most are borderline illiterates. To these people there is no difference between maybe can happen and will happen, they can't understand the concept of probability or the hypothetical. And if it hasn't happened yet they can't imagine it can happen. By proposing something as a possibility they think you are claiming it is about to happen right now, or that you yourself are going to do it. There is no nuance to their thinking, they just don't possess the intellectual machinery to think through possibilities about the future, to weigh up risks and concepts of change. If it isn't happening right this second, right in their faces, they just think, no worries, time for another beer Chang. Or to them its like you've claimed the sun won't rise tomorrow, or it will sink into the sea. You'd be better off trying to converse with a monkey or just beat you head against a brick wall.

Sorry----what was that again??????

[Beetlejuice]

A lot of, if`s, buts or maybes posed by the OP.

Those considering moving to Thailand for the long term should realise that ex-pats have virtually no statutory rights here and rules can be changed within a moment’s notice at the stroke of a pen.

The answers to the OP`s questions is that regarding ex-pats there are no guarantees of anything for us in Thailand, the goal posts can be shifted at any time. Anyone who completely packs up in their own countries and moves to Thailand, do so at their own discretion.

[Sealbash]

Why would you worry about something you have no control over? Do you worry every time you get on an airplane? Plan for the worst and hope for the best.

[simon43]

Why would you worry about something you have no control over? Do you worry every time you get on an airplane? Plan for the worst and hope for the best.

But you do have (some) control over this, by preparing for either PR or Thai citizenship now, which if you meet the criteria, should be granted before 10 years is up. You can then minimise your exposure to these (as yet) unknown changes in visa rules, political situation etc.

your are favored on this site.

Ask George when was the last time I bought him a beer....

Edited August 24, 2014 by simon43

[kurnell]

How is a som tam vendor and a motorcycle taxi driver gonna give you a receipt?

Huh? Retirement? Rules?

Huh? Did you read the thread?

[chiang mai]

One suspects that Simon has these things mostly worked out and is not seriously looking for answers, the fact that he's making everyone else think about the issue seems to be the real objective, a worthwhile exercise I reckon.

[larsjohnsson]

Why would you worry about something you have no control over? Do you worry every time you get on an airplane? Plan for the worst and hope for the best.

But you do have (some) control over this, by preparing for either PR or Thai citizenship now, which if you meet the criteria, should be granted before 10 years is up. You can then minimise your exposure to these (as yet) unknown changes in visa rules, political situation etc.

your are favored on this site.

Ask George when was the last time I bought him a beer....

You don't have more control over PR or citizenship.

[ableguy]

No go back to sleep before you start to think about maybe dying from leprosy.

[Torrens54]

Simon, I just hope that you haven't given them any BRIGHT Ideas.

They've already ditched the Health Care Insurance Scheme, that was introduced just last year and who knows what could be next?

I think you are quite right to be concerned about the future,your future, our futures, which can change dramatically on a whim and the stroke of a pen.

[Bender]

yeah i hope the General is reading this thread... that might give him some good idea

[Hedghog]

I think things stay as it is now but all retirees should have medical insurance before the extension is given.

Went last week to a hospital and saw an old Australian chap with serious hard conditions. When I asked him if he has any savings to get in to a private hospital he told the Mrs from Pattaya took all his money.

Many people can't obtain medical insurance due to pre existing medical conditions.

I am one such person and only 54.

What do you suggest for people in my position?

[larsjohnsson]

I think things stay as it is now but all retirees should have medical insurance before the extension is given.

Went last week to a hospital and saw an old Australian chap with serious hard conditions. When I asked him if he has any savings to get in to a private hospital he told the Mrs from Pattaya took all his money.

Many people can't obtain medical insurance due to pre existing medical conditions.

I am one such person and only 54.

What do you suggest for people in my position?

Travel insurance

[HerbalEd]

In spite of the sky-is-falling pessimism of many tv.com members, I don't think the Thai government wants to discourage tourists, retirees, etc. from coming to Thailand. Yes, they do some strange things sometimes, but that's just ting-tong Thai stuff and not a deliberate scheme to make trouble for baht-spending farangs. Since the coup there's lots of upheaval and shake-up going on, so there's bound to be some errors in the process, but later down the road I'm confident all will work out well. In fact, don't be too surprised if the immigration things actually gets better.

[TheSpade]

It has many economic advantages for Thailand and no obvious disadvantages

Disadvantages include...

• Many of the retirees regularly break the law by using prostitutes which is illegal in Thailand and very bad for Thailand's image on the world stage.

• Dwindling amount of money or limited pensions which aren't worth quite as much as they used to be causing people to get into financial trouble they can't get out of - can lead to homelessness etc.

• Old people tend to need more medical treatment than younger people and might not be able to afford to pay for it.

[mrfaroukh]

What they are doing at present is to improve the situation and not to make it worse. If they stop visa run is because they need tourist or retiree to come to Thailand and spend money, not to work illegally and pay no tax and in the end the do the visa run. It is also to reduce crime. Why should they increase the money, they know if they do so there may be many who will leave the country. And if they want to make sure you actually spend the money how will they do it? When you have a piece of fruit for 10 Baht will ask him to give you the bill? Don't worry and be happy. If they do change the law there are many countries in that area who would happily receive you.

[sgiandubh69]

You raise an interesting point and given the very recent 'tinkering' of tourist visas, one can only speculate about possible future changes.

One thing I have learned from living here is that there is always some Thai official ready to alter or amend a decent system, generally to the detriment of we foreigners.

Sure, there are many sanctimonious so called 'experts' on here that will either berate or rubbish your thoughts but I believe that as foreigners we should never take anything for granted. Experience shows that officials here are never happier than when diluting the enjoyment if living here in our senior years.

[SGD]

The rules have changed in the past and people have always been grandfathered.

I believe that Bt800k is a fairly recent development and if you look at the Thai law on this, which is issued periodically when changes are made, there are notes on figures much lower than Bt800k, certainly Bt400k and perhaps down to Bt200k or Bt100k.

There is no reason to scaremonger when all evidence points to the current situation being maintained.

[JLCrab]

I think things stay as it is now but all retirees should have medical insurance before the extension is given.

Went last week to a hospital and saw an old Australian chap with serious hard conditions. When I asked him if he has any savings to get in to a private hospital he told the Mrs from Pattaya took all his money.

Many people can't obtain medical insurance due to pre existing medical conditions.

I am one such person and only 54.

What do you suggest for people in my position?

Travel insurance

Travel insurance excludes pre-existing conditions so you are only covered for non-pre-existing conditions.

[chiang mai]

There are various types of medical travel insurance, in the UK at least there are products designed for the over 65 crowd where pre-existing conditions can be declared. The price of the insurance is higher than it would be for a 25 year old in perfect health but what do you expect, the cost is still not unduly onerous.

[jacko45k]

No problem.

I spend more than that already.

I am nearly that age already, but that would be an issue.

Why would I need to make a Visa Run when I live here on an extension?

[JLCrab]

There are various types of medical travel insurance, in the UK at least there are products designed for the over 65 crowd where pre-existing conditions can be declared. The price of the insurance is higher than it would be for a 25 year old in perfect health but what do you expect, the cost is still not unduly onerous.

Declared and covered or declared and excluded?

Note: There is an AXA/UK Travel Insurance policy that will only cover pre-existing conditions if they have agreed to do so in writing prior to your travel.

Edited August 24, 2014 by JLCrab

[chiang mai]

There are various types of medical travel insurance, in the UK at least there are products designed for the over 65 crowd where pre-existing conditions can be declared. The price of the insurance is higher than it would be for a 25 year old in perfect health but what do you expect, the cost is still not unduly onerous.

Declared and covered or declared and excluded?

Declared and covered:

http://www.money.co.uk/travel-insurance/travel-insurance-with-medical-conditions.htm

[simon43]

You don't have more control over PR or citizenship.

If you obtain citizenship, then apart from being eligible to run for Prime Minister, you are a Thai citizen, with the rights of any other Thai citizen. Your future is assured. If you obtain PR, then unless you commit some heinous act, it is very unlikely that your PR status will be revoked.

But in the case of retirement visa extensions, and any other type of visa extension, you are allowed to stay in Thailand on a temporary basis as a non-immigrant, for no more than 1 year. The conditions to allow you to stay for a further year could change, for better or for worse.

I suppose my question is why so few foreigners who intend to stay in Thailand for the long-term have not applied for PR or citizenship.

[Leung Falang]

I have seen nothing to make me think there is any impending changes. In fact the new police order that goes into effect on the 29th has no changes for retirement extensions.

In my opinion there will never be another change to the age to qualify. Nor a requirement to spend the money here.

I cannot see them raising the financial requirements any time soon. It is already well above what is needed to live here.

I prefer the retirement extension since income can be used, or income plus funds in the bank, or just funds in the bank. We find immigration in Mukdahan to be very friendly to us and all nationalities we see in the office, even the Lao. They are doing mobile outreach to some community groups and to foreign teachers. Since we own a home, B800,000 in the bank is not as appealing as income.

[JLCrab]

There are various types of medical travel insurance, in the UK at least there are products designed for the over 65 crowd where pre-existing conditions can be declared. The price of the insurance is higher than it would be for a 25 year old in perfect health but what do you expect, the cost is still not unduly onerous.

Declared and covered or declared and excluded?

Declared and covered:

http://www.money.co.uk/travel-insurance/travel-insurance-with-medical-conditions.htm

That is a list of brokers/packagers not underwriters and the few that I have viewed would require an acceptance of pre-existing conditions in advance. They probably all use AXA as an underwriter which required approval in writing.

Edited August 24, 2014 by JLCrab

[chiang mai]

There are various types of medical travel insurance, in the UK at least there are products designed for the over 65 crowd where pre-existing conditions can be declared. The price of the insurance is higher than it would be for a 25 year old in perfect health but what do you expect, the cost is still not unduly onerous.

Declared and covered or declared and excluded?

Declared and covered:

http://www.money.co.uk/travel-insurance/travel-insurance-with-medical-conditions.htm

That is a list of brokers/packagers not underwriters and the few that I have viewed would require an acceptance of pre-existing conditions in advance. They probably all use AXA as an underwriter which required approval in writing.

Yes possibly. The message however is that it is possible to get travel insurance, even with pre- existing conditions, years ago it was not. I did check one of those sites a couple of months ago, three months travel insurance for me was sensibly priced hence it's an option that should be considered by some,.

[JLCrab]

A clause typical of these policies -- if they agree in writing to a pre-existing condition and not just offer a quote -would be from the AXA Travel policy which excludes:

Any form of treatment or surgery which in the opinion of the medical practitioner in attendance and the Emergency Assistance Service can be delayed reasonably until your return to your home area.

Edited August 25, 2014 by JLCrab