1400 children sexually exploited in UK town Rotherham: report

[jacky54]

Some are starting to tell it like it is.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-28952044

And finally the board's resident apologists for Islam seem to have given up the ghost. No one can argue against the huge amount of evidence and public opinion for long.

I have constantly been accused of being an apologist. Nothing I have said contradicts the article and interview in the URL. If you listen to what the guy has to say, I agree with his observations.

Really but he is an apologist!

[for real]

Re Pakistani men's treatment of women.

There was a program on Thai television a couple of years back.

It was about middle class ladies who wanted to marry with Pakistan men who were working in America and had green cards or citizenship.These men [many] claimed they wanted to marry with brides from the home country.and take to America.The respectable ladies married these men in Pakistan and after the honeymoon were taken into the husband's home to 'help' the mothers' while the men went back to America to 'arrange passports and travel'.

The women were treated as slaves in the household but the men never intended to take them to America.The women remained in the households or had to leave and become homeless. They could not return to their own homes as they were now worthless used women .

I believe some of these men 'married' in Pakistan a few times

[Steely Dan]

A word from Pat Condell.

This is indeed right on the money, progressive leftists have infiltrated the executive branch of government as well as education where they gnaw away at the fabric of society like termites. Their alliance with stealth jihadists is nauseating beyond most people's comprehension. Alas the MSM have been totally absent in exposing this problem.

[simple1]

Some are starting to tell it like it is.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-28952044

And finally the board's resident apologists for Islam seem to have given up the ghost. No one can argue against the huge amount of evidence and public opinion for long.

I have constantly been accused of being an apologist. Nothing I have said contradicts the article and interview in the URL. If you listen to what the guy has to say, I agree with his observations.

Really but he is an apologist!

You can disagree, with his POV that Islam does not condone sexual abuse and in fact against Islamic principles. More to the point...

He comes across as being appalled at what has happened and the crimes committed by Muslims in Rotherham. I do not see how he can be described as being an 'apologist'.

[jacky54]

Pat is spot on and having worked in local authority I can testify to the multicultural, celebrating diversity no blame culture that goes on, and we can see the results in Rotherham. We need to hear the Police, social workers and 'community' leaders coming out with the same opinions as Pat ie the truth. Instead all I have heard is weasel words, ignoring the real causes and the good old it's not just Muslims doing this/nothing in Islamic culture that condones it nonsense.

[jacky54]

You can disagree, with his POV that Islam does not condone sexual abuse and in fact against Islamic principles.

But it does so he is wrong, or just lying. lets start at the beginning shall we and we could take it on from there. Mohammed (the perfect man) set an example in Marrying Ayisha when she was 6 and raping her when she was nine, that not my opinion it's Islamic scripture. The koran is full of suras denigrating women and condoning wife beating and stating that a woman's word is worth half that of a man. The Koran also gives the OK for the rape of slaves and unbelievers. So what could possibly motivate people still living in the 7th century in Rotherham that has had this stuffed into them at madrasas and Mosques their wholes lives? mm not hard is it.

Edited September 4, 2014 by jacky54

[MJP]

Some are starting to tell it like it is.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-28952044

Brave lad.

[thaibeachlovers]

Now we have Barry Shearman Labour MP for Huddersfield telling an online Dewsbury newspaper. He was concerned this was going on in Dewsbury and Huddersfield 6 years ago. But Barry you chose to protect your backside instead of publicly expressing those concerns. West Yorks police are investigating 36 crimes.

Barry has been quite frank and open about his own failings on this. He was on Channel 4 News tonight.

He's an old family friend and I know he is a genuine decent bloke . . . even if he is Labour.

http://www.channel4.com/news/catch-up/display/playlistref/020914/clipid/020914_4ON_ROTHERDISCO_02

I wish she hadn't kept interrupting him, and let him finish what he tried to say.

Yes, it's almost impossible to watch news interviews these days. The interviewers are more interested in broadcasting their own rhetorical views than doing their jobs.

Quite right too. I hate it when they interpose their ugly mugs into a tv interview, even if not saying anything- narcistic morons.

[thaibeachlovers]

You can disagree, with his POV that Islam does not condone sexual abuse and in fact against Islamic principles.

But it does so he is wrong, or just lying. lets start at the beginning shall we and we could take it on from there. Mohammed (the perfect man) set an example in Marrying Ayisha when she was 6 and raping her when she was nine, that not my opinion it's Islamic scripture. The koran is full of suras denigrating women and condoning wife beating and stating that a woman's word is worth half that of a man. The Koran also gives the OK for the rape of slaves and unbelievers. So what could possibly motivate people still living in the 7th century in Rotherham that has had this stuffed into them at madrasas and Mosques their wholes lives? mm not hard is it.

Plus a female child inherits less than a male child in a father's will.

[thaibeachlovers]

Some are starting to tell it like it is.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-28952044

Not really as the first thing reported the guy says is a lie, it was not many but all, and there clearly is something in Muslim culture that encourages these sort of terrible crimes. It's rather like climing there is nothing in the culture that condones stoning, 'honour' killings, child brides or genital mutilation, it's all to do with the way Islam looks on and treats women,they just treat kaffir women worse.

Muhbeen Hussain told BBC News that he accepted that many of the perpetrators were from the Pakistani community, but insisted that there was nothing in the Muslim culture that condoned the abuse.

To be fair, I do not believe that 'honour' killings or genital mutilation are in the Koran. Such things are customary in societies that happen to be Muslim, not because they are Muslim. In Saudi, girls do not have to cover themselves till their first menstruation, so it astounds me to see very young girls being covered in western countries. Obviously they do not know their own religion.

Also, it is NOT a requirement of Islam to cover up, only to dress modestly. I know Muslim women that do not cover their hair. The extreme covering is a cultural thing, not a Muslim requirement. Therefore I laugh derisivly at western female converts to Islam that start covering, as they don't know the religion they are adopting.

[jacky54]

Some are starting to tell it like it is.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-28952044

Not really as the first thing reported the guy says is a lie, it was not many but all, and there clearly is something in Muslim culture that encourages these sort of terrible crimes. It's rather like climing there is nothing in the culture that condones stoning, 'honour' killings, child brides or genital mutilation, it's all to do with the way Islam looks on and treats women,they just treat kaffir women worse.

Muhbeen Hussain told BBC News that he accepted that many of the perpetrators were from the Pakistani community, but insisted that there was nothing in the Muslim culture that condoned the abuse.

To be fair, I do not believe that 'honour' killings or genital mutilation are in the Koran. Such things are customary in societies that happen to be Muslim, not because they are Muslim. In Saudi, girls do not have to cover themselves till their first menstruation, so it astounds me to see very young girls being covered in western countries. Obviously they do not know their own religion.

Also, it is NOT a requirement of Islam to cover up, only to dress modestly. I know Muslim women that do not cover their hair. The extreme covering is a cultural thing, not a Muslim requirement. Therefore I laugh derisivly at western female converts to Islam that start covering, as they don't know the religion they are adopting.

Ok so what is in the Koran and haddith, covering of hair and genital mutilation are side issues. They tell us that the Prophet of 53 married a six year old and raped her at nine year old, that was not cultural at the time. The koran has many suras permitting sex with slaves and unbeliever captives as well as sanctioning wife beating and woman's word only being worth half of a man. The list of denigrating woman goes on, multiple wife's who are property and so on. It's pretty pointless to post all the suras and hadith quotes as the apologists always cry out of context or that was meant for the time of the phrophet.

The issue is what drives hundreds of Muslim Pakistani men to rape children of another race and religion, why have they not targeted Muslim kids if it has nothing to do with religion? and if they have not been conditioned by that religion to see children of another religion as worthless trash whose lives they can destroy at will, then what did motivate them? Blaming the culture as if it had nothing to do with religion is not going to be enough any longer, their culture is their religion.

Edited September 4, 2014 by jacky54

[i claudius]

Apparently there were 100 babies born as a result of the Rotherham rape gangs, one wonders what the total is nationwide. The tax bill brought to you by politically correct leftists, who will call names at anyone who complains.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/rotherham-child-sex-scandal-resulted-4137542

Made me feel sick just reading this and I do wish the posters who can only point the finger at other abusers could come up with an explanation for this, and some idea how it should be stamped out. This is a particular problem with one nationality and followers one religion in many towns. A Muslim woman in the article said:

'What we need is Asian women in Rotherham, and Rochdale, Oxford and Luton, to march with white mums and shout: “These are our daughters.” Human rights are for all, black, brown and white.'

Unfortunately there is about as much chance of this happening as there is of pigs flying, no offence!

Actually there is far more chance that pigs will fly

[i claudius]

Some are starting to tell it like it is.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-28952044

Not really as the first thing reported the guy says is a lie, it was not many but all, and there clearly is something in Muslim culture that encourages these sort of terrible crimes. It's rather like climing there is nothing in the culture that condones stoning, 'honour' killings, child brides or genital mutilation, it's all to do with the way Islam looks on and treats women,they just treat kaffir women worse.

Muhbeen Hussain told BBC News that he accepted that many of the perpetrators were from the Pakistani community, but insisted that there was nothing in the Muslim culture that condoned the abuse.

To be fair, I do not believe that 'honour' killings or genital mutilation are in the Koran. Such things are customary in societies that happen to be Muslim, not because they are Muslim. In Saudi, girls do not have to cover themselves till their first menstruation, so it astounds me to see very young girls being covered in western countries. Obviously they do not know their own religion.

Also, it is NOT a requirement of Islam to cover up, only to dress modestly. I know Muslim women that do not cover their hair. The extreme covering is a cultural thing, not a Muslim requirement. Therefore I laugh derisivly at western female converts to Islam that start covering, as they don't know the religion they are adopting.

Ok so what is in the Koran and haddith, covering of hair and genital mutilation are side issues. They tell us that the Prophet of 53 married a six year old and raped her at nine year old, that was not cultural at the time. The koran has many suras permitting sex with slaves and unbeliever captives as well as sanctioning wife beating and woman's word only being worth half of a man. The list of denigrating woman goes on, multiple wife's who are property and so on. It's pretty pointless to post all the suras and hadith quotes as the apologists always cry out of context or that was meant for the time of the phrophet.

The issue is what drives hundreds of Muslim Pakistani men to rape children of another race and religion, why have they not targeted Muslim kids if it has nothing to do with religion? and if they have not been conditioned by that religion to see children of another religion as worthless trash whose lives they can destroy at will, then what did motivate them? Blaming the culture as if it had nothing to do with religion is not going to be enough any longer, their culture is their religion.

In my old home town 2 Pakistani men raped a 14 year old Asian girl they were beaten within an inch of their lives by the local community that is why they do not target Asian girls white girls do not count

[jacky54]

In my old home town 2 Pakistani men raped a 14 year old Asian girl they were beaten within an inch of their lives by the local community that is why they do not target Asian girls white girls do not count

Was she a Muslim, Hindu or a Sikh? Sikh's do not stand for any nonsense and in fact only became militarised due to Muslim violence.

[i claudius]

Muslim

[Scott]

A post with the comment inside the quote has been removed. Please make sure your comments are not inside someone's quote.

[simple1]

The issue is what drives hundreds of Muslim Pakistani men to rape children of another race and religion, why have they not targeted Muslim kids if it has nothing to do with religion?

In my old home town 2 Pakistani men raped a 14 year old Asian girl they were beaten within an inch of their lives by the local community that is why they do not target Asian girls white girls do not count

It would seem that some people have not read the Rotherham report. Although the report does not mention the estimated numbers, the report does state Muslim children were also sexual abuse victims.

Edited September 7, 2014 by simple1

[jacky54]

It would seem that some people have not read the Rotherham report. Although the report does not mention the estimated numbers, the report does state Muslim children were also sexual abuse victims.

How many out of the 1400? and how many by the gang convicted? The fact remains that these criminals are conditioned and encouraged by their faith which denigrates women and sanctions rape. Anyone who cannot admit this is deluded or in denial.

[Albertosez]

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com

An interesting read and kind of puts things in perspective. Almost 24,000 deadly terror attacks SINCE 9/11!!

Still, I am sure they will find a way to deflect and justify this!

[simple1]

It would seem that some people have not read the Rotherham report. Although the report does not mention the estimated numbers, the report does state Muslim children were also sexual abuse victims.

How many out of the 1400? and how many by the gang convicted? The fact remains that these criminals are conditioned and encouraged by their faith which denigrates women and sanctions rape. Anyone who cannot admit this is deluded or in denial.

"the report does not mention the estimated numbers". BTW have you read the report?

Edited September 7, 2014 by simple1

[nontabury]

The issue is what drives hundreds of Muslim Pakistani men to rape children of another race and religion, why have they not targeted Muslim kids if it has nothing to do with religion?

In my old home town 2 Pakistani men raped a 14 year old Asian girl they were beaten within an inch of their lives by the local community that is why they do not target Asian girls white girls do not count

It would seem that some people have not read the Rotherham report. Although the report does not mention the estimated numbers, the report does state Muslim children were also sexual abuse victims.

Have you read this report?, if so perhaps you could share with us the relevant part. Where it states that Muslim children were involved in this particular case.

[simple1]

The issue is what drives hundreds of Muslim Pakistani men to rape children of another race and religion, why have they not targeted Muslim kids if it has nothing to do with religion?

In my old home town 2 Pakistani men raped a 14 year old Asian girl they were beaten within an inch of their lives by the local community that is why they do not target Asian girls white girls do not count

It would seem that some people have not read the Rotherham report. Although the report does not mention the estimated numbers, the report does state Muslim children were also sexual abuse victims.

Have you read this report?, if so perhaps you could share with us the relevant part. Where it states that Muslim children were involved in this particular case.

Yes; an example...

Pakistani-heritage Women and Girls

11.14 One of the local Pakistani women's groups described how Pakistani-heritage girls were targeted by taxi drivers and on occasion by older men lying in wait outside school gates at dinner times and after school. They also cited cases in Rotherham where Pakistani landlords had befriended Pakistani women and girls on their own for purposes of sex, then passed on their name to other men who had then contacted them for sex. The women and girls feared reporting such incidents to the Police because it would affect their future marriage prospects.

'

[nontabury]

The issue is what drives hundreds of Muslim Pakistani men to rape children of another race and religion, why have they not targeted Muslim kids if it has nothing to do with religion?

In my old home town 2 Pakistani men raped a 14 year old Asian girl they were beaten within an inch of their lives by the local community that is why they do not target Asian girls white girls do not count

It would seem that some people have not read the Rotherham report. Although the report does not mention the estimated numbers, the report does state Muslim children were also sexual abuse victims.

Have you read this report?, if so perhaps you could share with us the relevant part. Where it states that Muslim children were involved in this particular case.

Yes; an example...

Pakistani-heritage Women and Girls

11.14 One of the local Pakistani women's groups described how Pakistani-heritage girls were targeted by taxi drivers and on occasion by older men lying in wait outside school gates at dinner times and after school. They also cited cases in Rotherham where Pakistani landlords had befriended Pakistani women and girls on their own for purposes of sex, then passed on their name to other men who had then contacted them for sex. The women and girls feared reporting such incidents to the Police because it would affect their future marriage prospects.

'

Thank you for this link. as I said in an earlier post, I used to live in Rotherham and did in fact work for Rotherham council, admittedly many years ago, however I still have friends who until recently also worked for this same council. To day I have been in contact with them, and they say as far as they are aware,NO Pakistani girls were involved in these cases, this accusation came from a Pakistani woman's group (could they have been trying to deflect attention from the perpetrators) in fact 11.14 does not say any were.To be targeted and to actually abused is not exactly the same thing, That of course does not mean that no Pakistan girls were abused. Seemingly many people in Rotherham wonder why in this LATEST report the actual words Muslim and Pakistan are hardly mentioned yet the word Asian is. What the report does stress is that many officials were too afraid to mention the religion and the background of the perpetrators for fear of being classed as racialist, the suggestion being that perhaps the report from Alexis Jay is guilty of the same omission.

[Scott]

Off-topic post deleted.

[jacky54]

Thank you for this link. as I said in an earlier post, I used to live in Rotherham and did in fact work for Rotherham council, admittedly many years ago, however I still have friends who until recently also worked for this same council. To day I have been in contact with them, and they say as far as they are aware,NO Pakistani girls were involved in these cases, this accusation came from a Pakistani woman's group (could they have been trying to deflect attention from the perpetrators) in fact 11.14 does not say any were.To be targeted and to actually abused is not exactly the same thing,

Pretty much as expected, just some Muslim women trying the same tactics as some posters on here!

[simple1]

It would seem that some people have not read the Rotherham report. Although the report does not mention the estimated numbers, the report does state Muslim children were also sexual abuse victims.

Have you read this report?, if so perhaps you could share with us the relevant part. Where it states that Muslim children were involved in this particular case.

Yes; an example...

Pakistani-heritage Women and Girls

11.14 One of the local Pakistani women's groups described how Pakistani-heritage girls were targeted by taxi drivers and on occasion by older men lying in wait outside school gates at dinner times and after school. They also cited cases in Rotherham where Pakistani landlords had befriended Pakistani women and girls on their own for purposes of sex, then passed on their name to other men who had then contacted them for sex. The women and girls feared reporting such incidents to the Police because it would affect their future marriage prospects.

'

Thank you for this link. as I said in an earlier post, I used to live in Rotherham and did in fact work for Rotherham council, admittedly many years ago, however I still have friends who until recently also worked for this same council. To day I have been in contact with them, and they say as far as they are aware,NO Pakistani girls were involved in these cases, this accusation came from a Pakistani woman's group (could they have been trying to deflect attention from the perpetrators) in fact 11.14 does not say any were.To be targeted and to actually abused is not exactly the same thing, That of course does not mean that no Pakistan girls were abused. Seemingly many people in Rotherham wonder why in this LATEST report the actual words Muslim and Pakistan are hardly mentioned yet the word Asian is. What the report does stress is that many officials were too afraid to mention the religion and the background of the perpetrators for fear of being classed as racialist, the suggestion being that perhaps the report from Alexis Jay is guilty of the same omission.

Posts removed to enable reply.

The report does state "Pakistani" where there has been evidence of involvement. There is reference in the report to other nationalities of people alledgedly involved in the abuse. Do not believe I would be permitted to quote large tracts of text from the report (159 pages), but another example quote below.

11.17 With hindsight, it is clear that women and girls in the Pakistani community in Rotherham should have been encouraged and empowered by the authorities to speak out about perpetrators and their own experiences as victims of sexual exploitation, so often hidden from sight. The Safeguarding Board has recently received a presentation from a local Pakistani women's group about abuse within their community. The Board should address as a priority the under-reporting of exploitation and abuse in minority ethnic communities. We recommend that the relevant agencies immediately initiate dialogue about CSE with minority ethnic communities, and in particular with the Pakistani-heritage community. This should be done in consultation with local women's groups, and should develop strategies that support young women and girls from the community to participate without fear or threat.

From subject matter experts on CSE quoted within the report.

11.16 The Deputy Children's Commissioner’s report reached a similar conclusion to the Muslim Women's Network research, stating 'one of these myths was that only white girls are victims of sexual exploitation by Asian or Muslim males, as if these men only abuse outside of their own community, driven by hatred and contempt for white females. This belief flies in the face of evidence that shows that those who violate children are most likely to target those who are closest to them and most easily accessible.' The Home Affairs Select Committee quoted witnesses saying that cases of Asian men grooming Asian girls did not come to light because victims 'are often alienated and ostracised by their own families and by the whole community, if they go public with allegations of abuse.'

Again if people are truely interested in the detail of events, background and so on read the report. It is shocking to read the level of disfunctional families, breakdown of inter agency communication and follow up that enabled systematic abuse over many years, abuse of children in care etc etc and yes, the abuse mainly carried out by members of the Pakistani Muslim community

Edited September 8, 2014 by simple1

[nontabury]

It would seem that some people have not read the Rotherham report. Although the report does not mention the estimated numbers, the report does state Muslim children were also sexual abuse victims.

Have you read this report?, if so perhaps you could share with us the relevant part. Where it states that Muslim children were involved in this particular case.

Yes; an example...

Pakistani-heritage Women and Girls

11.14 One of the local Pakistani women's groups described how Pakistani-heritage girls were targeted by taxi drivers and on occasion by older men lying in wait outside school gates at dinner times and after school. They also cited cases in Rotherham where Pakistani landlords had befriended Pakistani women and girls on their own for purposes of sex, then passed on their name to other men who had then contacted them for sex. The women and girls feared reporting such incidents to the Police because it would affect their future marriage prospects.

'

Thank you for this link. as I said in an earlier post, I used to live in Rotherham and did in fact work for Rotherham council, admittedly many years ago, however I still have friends who until recently also worked for this same council. To day I have been in contact with them, and they say as far as they are aware,NO Pakistani girls were involved in these cases, this accusation came from a Pakistani woman's group (could they have been trying to deflect attention from the perpetrators) in fact 11.14 does not say any were.To be targeted and to actually abused is not exactly the same thing, That of course does not mean that no Pakistan girls were abused. Seemingly many people in Rotherham wonder why in this LATEST report the actual words Muslim and Pakistan are hardly mentioned yet the word Asian is. What the report does stress is that many officials were too afraid to mention the religion and the background of the perpetrators for fear of being classed as racialist, the suggestion being that perhaps the report from Alexis Jay is guilty of the same omission.

Posts removed to enable reply.

The report does state "Pakistani" where there has been evidence of involvement. There is reference in the report to other nationalities of people alledgedly involved in the abuse. Do not believe I would be permitted to quote large tracts of text from the report (159 pages), but another example quote below.

11.17 With hindsight, it is clear that women and girls in the Pakistani community in Rotherham should have been encouraged and empowered by the authorities to speak out about perpetrators and their own experiences as victims of sexual exploitation, so often hidden from sight. The Safeguarding Board has recently received a presentation from a local Pakistani women's group about abuse within their community. The Board should address as a priority the under-reporting of exploitation and abuse in minority ethnic communities. We recommend that the relevant agencies immediately initiate dialogue about CSE with minority ethnic communities, and in particular with the Pakistani-heritage community. This should be done in consultation with local women's groups, and should develop strategies that support young women and girls from the community to participate without fear or threat.

From subject matter experts on CSE quoted within the report.

11.16 The Deputy Children's Commissioner’s report reached a similar conclusion to the Muslim Women's Network research, stating 'one of these myths was that only white girls are victims of sexual exploitation by Asian or Muslim males, as if these men only abuse outside of their own community, driven by hatred and contempt for white females. This belief flies in the face of evidence that shows that those who violate children are most likely to target those who are closest to them and most easily accessible.' The Home Affairs Select Committee quoted witnesses saying that cases of Asian men grooming Asian girls did not come to light because victims 'are often alienated and ostracised by their own families and by the whole community, if they go public with allegations of abuse.'

Again if people are truely interested in the detail of events, background and so on read the report. It is shocking to read the level of disfunctional families, breakdown of inter agency communication and follow up that enabled systematic abuse over many years, abuse of children in care etc etc and yes, the abuse mainly carried out by members of the Pakistani Muslim community

Your twisting what I wrote. I never said or implied that the report did not mention Pakistani or Muslim, what I said was they are HARDLY mentioned, while the word Asian is more frequently used.

I also notice that you failed to answer the other points in my reply.

Agree everyone should read the report in full, easy to look up on Goggle, then they can decide amongst other things if this report is flawed, as many people are now thinking, due to what it does not say/mention.

[simple1]

@notabury. Sorry if you think I was twisting your words, not my intent.

[Mosha]

The deputy council leader has a credibility issue in Dewsbury, considering who she asked, and Barry Sheerman's comments.

http://www.examiner.co.uk/news/west-yorkshire-news/no-evidence-child-abuse-scale-7716296

[for real]

I wonder what can be the attraction for Pakistani muslims for them to come to Britain and raise families there?

Pork,ham and bacon are regularly seen on sale in shops.Women walk the streets unaccompanied by men and are 'uncovered'.

School boys and girls are [were] treated as equals and play together. The muslim religion does not wish to live side by side with any other religion. What can be the attraction for such people?