Thailand Bashers

[Axel]

Thailand is ok for me but I do not expect to live in paradise. To point out the negative things, however, is often taken by others as bashing. It is not, it's just pointing out what could be made different.

One example, during the world cup final game last Sunday, police apparently ordered some pubs on Sukhumvit to close at 1:00 am, i.e. when the game started. I think that's wrong. Am I bashing?

[Donz]

Well i believe anywhere I go I will be happy. It depends on the person IMO, im a very laid back type and rarely ever depressed about anything. But people do mistake it as a "i dont give a shit" attitude. which isnt true

[mrbojangles]

When does having and airing an "opinion" be deemed or perceived as moaning, complaining, bashing etc. The trouble with communicating on a forum via a few word and sentences, is that peoples writing skills differ and so you end up with a typical "intent versus impact" situation.

In other words, on the board i'm sure many posters meant to just give their opinion on something (intent) but some readers take it as the poster was complaining (impact).

Caviat, this applies to some, not all

Personally, i don't mind people who complain too much. Many a time, huge progress has been made through the efforts of people complaining, bashing, moaning demonstrating........................................................ and even burning their bra's

[tourleadersi]

Thailand is ok for me but I do not expect to live in paradise. To point out the negative things, however, is often taken by others as bashing. It is not, it's just pointing out what could be made different.

One example, during the world cup final game last Sunday, police apparently ordered some pubs on Sukhumvit to close at 1:00 am, i.e. when the game started. I think that's wrong. Am I bashing?

IMHO that isn't bashing Axel, thats just stating a point that is irritating about Thailand. This place is not perfect for me, but it certainly seems to be a lot better than anywhere else I have been.

Bashers are the one's who seem to attack just for the sake of it. You kind of get the feeling that they feel that way until Friday night when they get hammered and fall inlove with the country all over again, the effect wearing off by Tuesday....

[Ladphrao]

The Thai bashers have really been getting to me lately. Actually, I have found I am shying away from talking with foreigners who live here, mostly prefer tourist or Thais. Yeah, sure Thailand isn't perfect, but what good does it to go on and on and on about how terrible it is. Pack up, go home, what ever. Maybe I am stupid, but I enjoy my life and love living in this country, I might leave someday or I might not. It gets so old trying to defend one's positive attitude from the moaners, I try to avoid them, but seems to me there are so many it means I have to avoid almost all Farangs living here. I don't remember such a high percentage of miserable people back home, maybe it was the same but maybe I have gone native and developed a mai pen rai mindset and all the Farang negativity is just more obvious. frankly the longer I live here I think most of the biching is nothing but ingrained racism in our culture and people seem to have a need to put down others in order to try to elavate themselves or some such thing, which I have no time for.

Unhappiness or happiness primarily comes from within, complaining that the environment or one's surroundings is making one unhappy is a waste of time. If your surroundings are making you unhappy, change your surroundings (move). If the unhappiness comes from within, change yourself and your attitudes. But, please. stop trying to make everyone else see the world through sh*t-colored glasses and wasting people's time with constant unproductive attempts to change the world to fit your ideal.

[Donz]

bashing is more about people saying that a person did this or that then they blame the whole country to be stupid, rude etc, or someone who posts everything they can negative and blame it all on Thai people.

Read alot of Moonchasers posts and you will know the meaning of bashing.

[Charma]

There is a difference between telling someone of an experience you've had or a situation you've been in and just saying a place or a group of people are s**t. The first is objective the second is subjective. Objectivity is always gonna help people more.

I'll have to read some of Moonchaser's posts to get your meaning.

[GuestHouse]

Someone is going to have to start highlighting 'Thailand Bashers' because I seem to be missing them.

Most complaints I read of Thailand seem pretty well thought out.

Perhaps we should conside that the accusation of 'Thailand Basher' might be just a bit of name calling, leveled against those who hold a different opinion from someone who for whatever reason feels the need to defend Thailand and everything about Thailand (Good/Bad or indifferent).

People have different opinions, moving to Thailand is not a reason to give up having opinions. Nor is it a reason to deny other's their views - Which I think is actually what is at the root of this and other posts berating those who don't find everything Thai to their liking.

[farangsay]

If people want to complain let them complain. Let them exercise their right to free speech in a "democratic" country.

What's more annoying is seeing people whinge about the whingers. Now they must have a lot of spare time!!!!

Sorry , did I read that right ?

You are whingeing about the people who whinge about the whingers ?

Wow

[Charma]

What is a whinger? Cambridge online suggests:

whinge

verb whingeing or whinging UK INFORMAL DISAPPROVING

to complain, especially about something which does not seem important:

Oh stop whinging, for heaven's sake!

She's always whingeing (on) about something.

whinge

noun [C usually singular] UK INFORMAL DISAPPROVING

We were just having a whinge about our boss - nothing new.

whinger

noun [C] UK INFORMAL DISAPPROVING

a person who complains continually

[jamman]

I like to complain because I'm a cranky bastard. And also because hyperbole can put things into sharper focus. I have an unbreakable habit of wanting to see patterns in things, and what grabs my attention is sometimes the irksome things.

[longway]

why do you think that if a person likes thailand they must have been unhappy before? isnt that rather pretentious? arnt u just looking for a way to look down on those who are happy here; as a way of justifying your own bitter experiences.

Perhaps you need to read what I said again.

I do not say that because a person likes Thailand, they must have been unhappy before. I certainly like Thailand and I have been privalaged to have a great life before going to Thailand, while living in Thailand and after moving on from Thailand.

What I actually say is

Too often those that defend Thailand as Ambrosia are the self same people who rant about the life they had elsewhere.

There is a subtle difference.

As for justifying my own bitter experiences you'll have to remind me exactly what bitter experiences those are.

ur right....there is a subtle difference

am glad you like it here, its no so bad esp. with the privelige of a bit of money behind u, what is really sad is the people here with priveliges who dont seem to be able to wake up to the fact they are probably in a very lucky situation.

the way i read your post it sounded as if a bitter person was trying to feel superior to those who like it here. my mistake.

[Heng]

What's perplexing (just a bit anyway) are those who have long since moved on physically from Thailand, but still haunt Thailand web forums and newsgroups complaining about Thailand and attacking those, both locals and foreigners, who enjoy life -with all the positives and negatives- here.

[longway]

Someone is going to have to start highlighting 'Thailand Bashers' because I seem to be missing them.

Most complaints I read of Thailand seem pretty well thought out. 1st

Perhaps we should conside that the accusation of 'Thailand Basher' might be just a bit of name calling, leveled against those who hold a different opinion from someone who for whatever reason feels the need to defend Thailand and everything about Thailand (Good/Bad or indifferent). 2nd

People have different opinions, moving to Thailand is not a reason to give up having opinions. Nor is it a reason to deny other's their views - Which I think is actually what is at the root of this and other posts berating those who don't find everything Thai to their liking. 3rd

so ur whinge is about those that whinge about people whinging about thailand.

u rarely see the 1st. i rarely see the 2nd. and i dont agreee with the 3rd.

it is mainly attitude i think, as other posters have said, no matter how objective we try to be there in an inevitable subjective element to any assesment.

[creation2474]

I don't see anything wrong in canplaining.

[swissie]

There actually might be a few reasons for "Thailand-Bashing".

Like: Corruption, a "Mickey-Mouse" judicial system, endless visa hassles, the unwillingness of Thais do "do business with a Farang", plenty of smiling faces, that are not really smiling at you, but at your wallet, a law that allowes a divorce if the husband/wife gets terminally ill (to relieve the "healthy" party of any "burdens" arising from the "sick" party) etc. etc. etc.

But things like this might well be encountered in other "tropical developping countries".

So why Thailand??

At this point, I would like to inject a revolutionary thought:

Could it be, that a Farang is willing to put up with all of this because of "the ladies of Thailand?"

Heaven forbid, coulden't be!!!!!!! Or could it?

Cheers!

[GuestHouse]

ur right....there is a subtle difference

am glad you like it here, its no so bad esp. with the privelige of a bit of money behind u, what is really sad is the people here with priveliges who dont seem to be able to wake up to the fact they are probably in a very lucky situation.

the way i read your post it sounded as if a bitter person was trying to feel superior to those who like it here. my mistake.

Perhaps then since we agree that the perspective on life in Thailand is personal we could agree to replace the thread with a rant against those who, for what ever reason, enjoy a bit more privilege and wealth.

We could perhaps invent ways by which people in more fortunate positions could be woken up and made to feel guilty for their good fortune (no matter how they came by it).

There’s nothing like a bit of envy to bring back memories of home, sad that some can't leave it there.

Grammar corrected during edit.

Edited July 11, 2006 by GuestHouse

[Eastender]

Couldn't be bothered to trawl through the replies. Just wanted to add my thoughts to the original question. It's not so much the people as the medium. People vent their feelings on forums and if you met them in a bar would probably say they loved Thailand.

[diddlysquat]

There is a certain type of "Expat". They are the ones who are"getting away" from all their troubles back home. Financial problems, relationships gone bad, run in with the law or the taxman, whatever. Suddenly that place in the sun seems like a great place to be. It's the other side of the fence where the grass will be greener and their lives will be better. It's almost like being on the run.

They will arrive at their new home, maybe start a business (usually a bar) meet new people and start new relationships. All is well. Then they suddenly find out that, for all the reasons their lives were f***ed up back home, things are going wrong in their new country. It's not the country they were liviing in that's the problem - it's them!

I agree.

Also there are those who were running away from nothing but simply thought life here would be wonderful. For a number of years it was but as they get older they become homesick. The problem is they have burnt their boats and do not have the financial resources to return home. They then feel trapped here and slowly begin to resent Thailand.

I agree with others here who would prefer to read a good whinge than someone saying how wonderful life is here. Like newspapers. If it was all good news they'd go out of business.

[jdinasia]

for the most part ... complaints by folks don't really affect me. Some ARE even legit <though most are being seen from a culturally biased perspective>

There are the folks that didn't have a clue .... they moved here and expected it to be like "home". Fortunately most of them end up in Pattaya/Patong/Suk/Silom or Chang Mai.

The rest seem to "get it" a bit easier and with less cultural bias ... they tend to live anywhere BUT the above places ...

The ones that complain the most also seem to be the ones that never bothered to learn to speak/read/write Thai .... no shock there at all!

Then there is that special sub-set of people ... those that couldn't make it in Thailand and have since moved on ....!

[TokyoT]

Whinging or constructive criticism? Where is the line? In the sand? Sand? Does Thailand have deserts? Oh, but they do have beaches.

[jbowman1993]

Whats up with the silent g in Whing. Silent G's should be banned.

In the place that I work, it is invariablly the Americans who do the most complaining, while the other nationalites seem to be more content with their lives. (Except the one Brit. He complains, but he is so charming, that nobody minds). (Our one aussie doesn't complain too much. He is usually to loaded to do more than slur a nice hello)

As an American myself, i feel frustrated that my countrymen have such a hard time getting along. Ugly american indeed.

Now that I have finished stereotyping, I would say that I still try to take each person as in individual, regardless of where they come from. It can be difficult to stop from slipping back into the comfortable stereotypes, but I try my best.

Peace

[longway]

ur right....there is a subtle difference

am glad you like it here, its no so bad esp. with the privelige of a bit of money behind u, what is really sad is the people here with priveliges who dont seem to be able to wake up to the fact they are probably in a very lucky situation.

the way i read your post it sounded as if a bitter person was trying to feel superior to those who like it here. my mistake.

Perhaps then since we agree that the perspective on life in Thailand is personal we could agree to replace the thread with a rant against those who, for what ever reason, enjoy a bit more privilege and wealth.

We could perhaps invent ways by which people in more fortunate positions could be woken up and made to feel guilty for their good fortune (no matter how they came by it).

There’s nothing like a bit of envy to bring back memories of home, sad that some can't leave it there.

Grammar corrected during edit.

this thread is getting to you somehow isnt it.

[longway]

There actually might be a few reasons for "Thailand-Bashing".

Like: Corruption, a "Mickey-Mouse" judicial system, endless visa hassles, the unwillingness of Thais do "do business with a Farang", plenty of smiling faces, that are not really smiling at you, but at your wallet, a law that allowes a divorce if the husband/wife gets terminally ill (to relieve the "healthy" party of any "burdens" arising from the "sick" party) etc. etc. etc.

But things like this might well be encountered in other "tropical developping countries".

So why Thailand??

At this point, I would like to inject a revolutionary thought:

Could it be, that a Farang is willing to put up with all of this because of "the ladies of Thailand?"

Heaven forbid, coulden't be!!!!!!! Or could it?

Cheers!

so u think the chicks here are so good that it makes up for everything else. what youre basically saying is that thai women are wonderful, as u can get women in many other tropical countries too, so why thailand.

nice to hear someone say something positive about thailand. so no complaints from u then.

Edited July 12, 2006 by longway

[simon43]

Whats up with the silent g in Whing. Silent G's should be banned.

?? It's not silent. We are taking about whing, not whine..

Simon

[Charma]

The Brits were so good at complaining about their new country that the aussies created a name for them - Whinging Poms!

[Donz]

The Brits were so good at complaining about their new country that the aussies created a name for them - Whinging Poms!

I thought thats what everyone calls them.

[Ijustwannateach]

There are extremes on both sides.... on the whinging side, there are clueless people who want Thailand to be some kind of paradise "like back home," only with cheap Thai stuff (of all sorts). On the whinging about the whinging side, there are the silly people who "defend" Thailand from all criticism, post stuff like "like it or leave it," "we are guests" and are pretty blind to the real faults and downsides of Thai culture/life. As long as you're somewhere in the middle, you're probably ok, and a heckuva lot more interesting to talk to.

"Steven"

[Charma]

The Brits were so good at complaining about their new country that the aussies created a name for them - Whinging Poms!

I thought thats what everyone calls them.

As a brit I could resent that remark - but on second thoughts it might be justified! Anyway Donz, I read somehwre that you are leaving oz for Thailand. Is that because of all the whinging poms arriving?

With so many around the world wanting to go to oz, why would you wanna leave? You got lots of sunshine, great beaches, beautiful scenery.....

[GuestHouse]

Pom, from POHM = Prisoner Of Her Majesty.

Nothing the do with modern Britons and everything to do with the early Convict Settlers of Australia