Netanyahu declares 'victory' in Gaza

[metisdead]

Removed a post that claimed others were paid to post. If you have any actual evidence please forward it to support. If it's just a lame debating tactic, further references like that may find you without posting rights.

[konying]

Netanyahu showing his true agenda; Do not concede to any demands, even the reasonable, legitimate and fair ones.

This is why peace talks always fail.

May be you can explain to me the "reasonable ' in demanding from Israel to open Egyptian border and to have full control of it??

Did anyone say all of Hamas's demands were reasonable?

But that aside, an open border with Egypt sounds reasonable. Dual control would be more reasonable.

I realize the pain you feel knowing Israel did not give in to terrorists and stood strong,

I also realize no matter what the truth is, you would twist it and manipulate it and if you can not, just ignore or change the subject.

In the end of the day, Israel exists and will do so. Israel will not bend over backwards.

The sooner you come to realize it, the sooner your pain will be gone.

I am also sad to tell you, nobody really cares what you think is reasonable. Egyptians spoke out already and it will never happen.

Not only Hamas suffered a terrible defeat, but it also lost all its support and credibility in the Arab world.

Hamas got too cocky and sloppy, it is now recorded evidence that Hamas uses civilians as human shields, that Hamas kills its own people but covers it up and much more.

The fact that during the war, Hamas leader stayed in luxury and enjoyed his life, while his people were being killed, also did not help.

None of Hamas demands were reasonable, not even 1, considering its stance on Israel existence and proven track record.

The nonsense of blockade being tight is exactly that a nonsense. As i said earlier, Hamas has enough building materials to build kilometers long tunnels.

Hamas has enough money to stock up on thousands of rockets.

Any grievances Gazans have, they should take it up with its leadership Hamas

Hamas is well aware if they were to put their demands to Egyptians about the border, they would be told to go get ffffed.

Hamas also knows if they were to shoot a rocket into Egypt, Egypt would come and wipe out half of Gaza with little care of civilian casualties and little words from the rest of the world.

Recent coup in Egypt was a perfect example of that, hundreds were killed and thousands were jailed and hardly any noise from the rest of the world.

So, in the end of the day, get over your hatred, and if you can not, can always go see good Jewish doctor.

[CBR250]

Here is the TRUTH for those that can handle it!

NS

People like Ilan Peppe and Gidon Levy are fifth column in Israel and they're allowed and some time

encouraged to speak tier minds even though they are hurting Israel's image and are bordering

on civil unrest incitement, and yet, they are allowed to speak freely, try that in Gaza or Egypt

or any other Arab country I dare you, you will not last a day alive, and that's the different between

Israel and the so called Arab/Muslims centuries around Israel...

You make it sound like Israel is some kind of open minded democracy instead of the close-minded fascist state it has become. So why were Peppe's books withdrawn from schools? Why did he flee the country? Why was he sent death threats? Why did MPs insist on his being fired?

And you infer he has no right to speak, but is "allowed". Most democracies actually accord a right to speak from diverse viewpoints. And you also claim his writings / talks are "bordering on civil unrest incitement" - well, only if what he says has the ring of truth. If you disagree with his claims, you can always provide evidence to dispute them, and not fall back onto the lame avoidance tactics of the ill-informed and prejudiced. What aspects of his claims do you dispute? The massacres of Palestinians in 1948? The agenda of ethnic cleansing revealed by documents of the Israeli terrorists of the day?

[Jingthing]

The topic here is not yet again needing to defend the right of Israel to exist in the first place against rabid anti-Zionists.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[konying]

Here is the TRUTH for those that can handle it!

NS

People like Ilan Peppe and Gidon Levy are fifth column in Israel and they're allowed and some time

encouraged to speak tier minds even though they are hurting Israel's image and are bordering

on civil unrest incitement, and yet, they are allowed to speak freely, try that in Gaza or Egypt

or any other Arab country I dare you, you will not last a day alive, and that's the different between

Israel and the so called Arab/Muslims centuries around Israel...

You make it sound like Israel is some kind of open minded democracy instead of the close-minded fascist state it has become. So why were Peppe's books withdrawn from schools? Why did he flee the country? Why was he sent death threats? Why did MPs insist on his being fired?

And you infer he has no right to speak, but is "allowed". Most democracies actually accord a right to speak from diverse viewpoints. And you also claim his writings / talks are "bordering on civil unrest incitement" - well, only if what he says has the ring of truth. If you disagree with his claims, you can always provide evidence to dispute them, and not fall back onto the lame avoidance tactics of the ill-informed and prejudiced. What aspects of his claims do you dispute? The massacres of Palestinians in 1948? The agenda of ethnic cleansing revealed by documents of the Israeli terrorists of the day?

Are you comparing Israel's democracy to neighboring Arab states "democracy" or to US style democracy?

Because last time i checked Assange is still hiding out in embassy and seeking refuge and Snowden is still seeking asylum.

Aljazeera journalists are still jailed in Egypt, Journalists kidnapped and beheaded in Iraq, Libya, and few others, Journalists still arrested, beaten and shot at in Ukraine.

So which democracy are you referring to?

Edited August 28, 2014 by konying

[Jingthing]

Israel isn't the most perfect democracy in the world that's for sure but compared to her neighbors she ain't chopped liver!

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[konying]

Israel isn't the most perfect democracy in the world that's for sure but compared to her neighbors she ain't chopped liver!

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I would disagree with you there.

Israel is most perfect and the ONLY democracy in the middle east.

In much loved Gaza, they simply shoot people in public without a trial or jury.

[mikehock]

Here is the TRUTH for those that can handle it!

NS

People like Ilan Peppe and Gidon Levy are fifth column in Israel and they're allowed and some time

encouraged to speak tier minds even though they are hurting Israel's image and are bordering

on civil unrest incitement, and yet, they are allowed to speak freely, try that in Gaza or Egypt

or any other Arab country I dare you, you will not last a day alive, and that's the different between

Israel and the so called Arab/Muslims centuries around Israel...

You make it sound like Israel is some kind of open minded democracy instead of the close-minded fascist state it has become. So why were Peppe's books withdrawn from schools? Why did he flee the country? Why was he sent death threats? Why did MPs insist on his being fired?

And you infer he has no right to speak, but is "allowed". Most democracies actually accord a right to speak from diverse viewpoints. And you also claim his writings / talks are "bordering on civil unrest incitement" - well, only if what he says has the ring of truth. If you disagree with his claims, you can always provide evidence to dispute them, and not fall back onto the lame avoidance tactics of the ill-informed and prejudiced. What aspects of his claims do you dispute? The massacres of Palestinians in 1948? The agenda of ethnic cleansing revealed by documents of the Israeli terrorists of the day?

Fine words....now let us know which Arab country " accord a right to speak from diverse viewpoints"

Oh..... I notice the diverse viewpoints of the population of Gaza, or the West Bank....yes that is well chronicled NOT

....so which is the close minded fascist State

[Jingthing]

Israel is no fascist state but the right wing is strong there and the Israeli left has shrunk.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[oldsailor35]

Netanyahu showing his true agenda; Do not concede to any demands, even the reasonable, legitimate and fair ones.

This is why peace talks always fail.

And that is how he should have behaved. Seeing that he is surrounded by hostile nations who are declaring to annihilate the Israeli nation. He just cannot afford to give anything.

[CBR250]

The topic here is not yet again needing to defend the right of Israel to exist in the first place against rabid anti-Zionists.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

No, the topic is Israel, The State of Denial. Victory in Gaza? Another lie. There was no victory in Gaza - there are too many bodies to think there was a "victory". "Victory" is the web of deceit worn by the warmongers, the liars, the propagandists. The keyboard warriors. The old men who fantasise that they are soldiers.

And all of the defending in the world cannot wash the stench of inhumanity from the leaders of Israel. While I wholeheartedly support the continuing existence of Israel, I understand only too well why many people no longer do so. It is attitudes like yours that repel people, that reveal the extent of denial and the depths of immorality into which so many Israelis and Jews have descended.

[Morch]

It is a victory for Hammas in one important respect. They have reestablished themselves as an important player in the Middle East, especially now that the Muslim Brotherhood etc., have been marginalized. Importantly, going forward, they have inserted themselves into any process with Israel regarding the Palestinians.

Actually this is not the case. On the regional level, Hamas definitely took a hit. It got little support from former backers, and very little by way of effective support from Arab and Muslim countries in general. Egypt managed to leave Turkey and Katar mostly out of the way and with its current unfavorable disposition toward Hamas, and while holding the keys to the Gaza Strip, things aren't going to be easy for Hamas.

As far as Palestinian domestic politics go, it is still a bit early to tell. Hamas got the expected surge in support during most of the fighting, but there were also other voices which saw its actions as futile, counterproductive and harmful for Gazans. On the same note, it is worth mentioning that despite consistent Hamas calls for Palestinians in the West Bank to stage an uprising, relatively little of this happened. While Abbas's position does not seem much improved at the moment, I would venture a guess that the gains in public opinion made by Hamas are temporary. That is not to say, of course, that they are irrelevant or that their power was diminished, far from it.

[CBR250]

As for the rest of the world and the US. Well Obama never liked Netanyahu anyway so who cares? The black golf player is leaving in a couple of years ....

(emphasis added in response)

This is the respect Israeli apologists have for their main supporter on the world stage?

No wonder they treat their enemies as less than human if this is how they view their friends.

[Morch]

No one should be surprised that Netanyahu is doing a victory dance atop the graves of innocent women and children.

But the most important thing that Israel lost in the war is unquestioned support from the White House. Future presidents (of both parties) aren't going to forget how Israel treated the US Secretary of State--both in person and in the media. To my knowledge this type of disrespect has never been displayed before by Israel, and I'm confident that meetings in Washington DC are being held to assure it doesn't happen again. Netanyahu overplayed his hand, and the repercussions will be felt in Tel Aviv for years to come. Uncle Sam doesn't forget, and payback is a bitch.

Well, its a mirror image of the Hamas leadership celebrations and decelerations of victory. Both sides do it mainly for domestic consumption, not much to read into it. Pretty standard for every leader after an iffy campaign.

The relationship between Netanyahu (yes, specifically) and the current administration were soured long ago, and came to a head with Netanyahu's clear support for Romney during the last election campaign. The recent clashes are definitely out of order, both in frequency and tone. Netanyahu and other ministers following his lead went way too far and there is, indeed, a lot of criticism within Israel regarding their conduct. Not a good way to treat your country's main patron and strategic asset.

Not sure how or if this will be translated into actual damage to USA support of Israel, beyond the current administration's term. Doubt there will be major changes even during the rest of Obama's term in office, but still a long time to go until it ends, very much so when considering how quickly things change in the Middle East. Guess that some things could be patched quite easily and some won't - depends on who was involved and on which level.

[Jingthing]

The topic here is not yet again needing to defend the right of Israel to exist in the first place against rabid anti-Zionists.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

No, the topic is Israel, The State of Denial. Victory in Gaza? Another lie. There was no victory in Gaza - there are too many bodies to think there was a "victory". "Victory" is the web of deceit worn by the warmongers, the liars, the propagandists. The keyboard warriors. The old men who fantasise that they are soldiers.

And all of the defending in the world cannot wash the stench of inhumanity from the leaders of Israel. While I wholeheartedly support the continuing existence of Israel, I understand only too well why many people no longer do so. It is attitudes like yours that repel people, that reveal the extent of denial and the depths of immorality into which so many Israelis and Jews have descended.

What an unpleasant and poisonous little rant that was.

To add if you describe yourself as anti-Zionist you can't possibly really support the existence of Israel.

Edited August 28, 2014 by Jingthing

[atyclb]

Here is an ad placed in the NY times by jewish holocaust survivors regarding the recent gaza conflict

http://mondoweiss.net/2014/08/holocaust-survivors-palestinians.html

[Jingthing]

As for the rest of the world and the US. Well Obama never liked Netanyahu anyway so who cares? The black golf player is leaving in a couple of years ....

(emphasis added in response)

This is the respect Israeli apologists have for their main supporter on the world stage?

No wonder they treat their enemies as less than human if this is how they view their friends.

There it is again. The relentless demonization of Israel, the Jew of nations. Israel is a country. It doesn't need apology or no apology any more than any other established nation. If you're talking about specific Israeli policies or specific Israeli politicians, of course that's another matter. The Israel demonizers really go too far in trashing an entire nation of millions of people instead of focusing RATIONALLY on criticism of SPECIFIC POLICIES.

Edited August 28, 2014 by Jingthing

[Morch]

Netanyahu showing his true agenda; Do not concede to any demands, even the reasonable, legitimate and fair ones.

This is why peace talks always fail.

May be you can explain to me the "reasonable ' in demanding from Israel to open Egyptian border and to have full control of it??

Did anyone say all of Hamas's demands were reasonable?

But that aside, an open border with Egypt sounds reasonable. Dual control would be more reasonable.

Opening the border with Egypt would require Egypt's willingness to do so. Somehow they are not too keen on the notion.

[Morch]

-snip-

The World Public sympathy never was, is or will be for Israel.

And just who would "The World" be?

Which Western country supports Hamas over Israel?

Never Sure, the World is too big to unswer your question in details. Besides, I am also never sure.

But I can give just a few examples.

USA: when Obama compares Israel's self defence with Nazis... when USA gives Palestinian Arabs $3 Bn in 'humanitarian aid' knowing damn well where the money are going.

..........

......... feel free to fill the gaps here. Just leave Canada out of the list.

........

Thailand: when mad crowds are allowed to go rampant in front of Israeli Embassy at the time of declared Martial Law with total impunity.

...........

BBC: proudly 'breaking the World news' but quietly 'fixing the same news' by showing only death and destruction on one side.

In fact any country, any mass media agency, any Gov't or groups of individuals refusing to see that Israel's fight for survival is also the fight for the rest of the World.

And finally every poster here on TV refusing to acknowledge and differentiate the actions of selfdefence from acts of mad fanatical futile aggression.

Good enough for you?

You missed the point. Western countries do not support Hamas - but they are running out of patience with an Israel that constantly undermines the peace process to satisfy right-wing settlers (and win votes for more Zionist fanatics like Lieberman in the next election). The "self-defence" that slaughtered hundreds of innocent women and children as they killed off a few Hamas soldiers is also suspected by many people in western nations as another instance that Israel has sold out to fanatics. Many western nations now recognise Fatah as a voice of moderation in Palestine, but you just might see your fears fulfilled and western nations siding with Hamas one day - unless Israel gives up its war-mongering and land thefts.

as they killed off a few Hamas soldiers

And you would know that piece of information from where, exactly?

Most figures making the rounds in the media are re-hashes of various UN statements. These statements, in turn, rely on

figures supplied by the Hamas (through the Ministry of Health in Gaza) and local NGOs, which even when discounting for

possible bias, are also operating in Hamas controlled area. Most original reports (as opposed to further quoting in media

and websites supporting a side, include cautionary notes and explanations on sources). Age and gender statistics provided

with the some of the data, seem to indicate that the disproportionate representation on casualty lists of men in relevant age

groups might be indicative of Hamas attempt to hide actual numbers of militants killed. Hamas, as a rule, does not admit to

militant casualties during fighting, unless impossible to conceal.

Before you go on to denounce this post - yes, many civilians were killed, among them way too many kids. The kids are

not terrorists, combatants or militants. My comment referred specifically to the issue of Hamas militants hit.

[arjunadawn]

It is a victory for Hammas in one important respect. They have reestablished themselves as an important player in the Middle East, especially now that the Muslim Brotherhood etc., have been marginalized. Importantly, going forward, they have inserted themselves into any process with Israel regarding the Palestinians.

Hamas is the Muslim Brotherhood. The MB is a real and viable threat currently and while its licking its wounds in Egypt, it is ascendent elsewhere. The MB have a number of very high profile US administration advisers and the US has been a big backer of the MB. It is yet to be seen how they will further enhance MB welfare. Hamas also needs its previous sponsor, Iran, but compromised that relationship with regard to the Syria issue (refused sunni on sunni actions). Though Qatar funds Hamas, it will be curious to see if they re court Iranian support, and how that would play out with Syria. Hamas most definitely is not just a local government battling Israel.

[arjunadawn]

And just who would "The World" be?

Which Western country supports Hamas over Israel?

Never Sure, the World is too big to unswer your question in details. Besides, I am also never sure.

But I can give just a few examples.

USA: when Obama compares Israel's self defence with Nazis... when USA gives Palestinian Arabs $3 Bn in 'humanitarian aid' knowing damn well where the money are going.

..........

......... feel free to fill the gaps here. Just leave Canada out of the list.

........

Thailand: when mad crowds are allowed to go rampant in front of Israeli Embassy at the time of declared Martial Law with total impunity.

...........

BBC: proudly 'breaking the World news' but quietly 'fixing the same news' by showing only death and destruction on one side.

In fact any country, any mass media agency, any Gov't or groups of individuals refusing to see that Israel's fight for survival is also the fight for the rest of the World.

And finally every poster here on TV refusing to acknowledge and differentiate the actions of selfdefence from acts of mad fanatical futile aggression.

Good enough for you?

You missed the point. Western countries do not support Hamas - but they are running out of patience with an Israel that constantly undermines the peace process to satisfy right-wing settlers (and win votes for more Zionist fanatics like Lieberman in the next election). The "self-defence" that slaughtered hundreds of innocent women and children as they killed off a few Hamas soldiers is also suspected by many people in western nations as another instance that Israel has sold out to fanatics. Many western nations now recognise Fatah as a voice of moderation in Palestine, but you just might see your fears fulfilled and western nations siding with Hamas one day - unless Israel gives up its war-mongering and land thefts.

as they killed off a few Hamas soldiers

And you would know that piece of information from where, exactly?

Most figures making the rounds in the media are re-hashes of various UN statements. These statements, in turn, rely on

figures supplied by the Hamas (through the Ministry of Health in Gaza) and local NGOs, which even when discounting for

possible bias, are also operating in Hamas controlled area. Most original reports (as opposed to further quoting in media

and websites supporting a side, include cautionary notes and explanations on sources). Age and gender statistics provided

with the some of the data, seem to indicate that the disproportionate representation on casualty lists of men in relevant age

groups might be indicative of Hamas attempt to hide actual numbers of militants killed. Hamas, as a rule, does not admit to

militant casualties during fighting, unless impossible to conceal.

Before you go on to denounce this post - yes, many civilians were killed, among them way too many kids. The kids are

not terrorists, combatants or militants. My comment referred specifically to the issue of Hamas militants hit.

It is my opinion the US (administration) does support Hamas. The US does support the muslim brotherhood. The two are inseparable. The only reason US support of Hamas is not more demonstrable (besides the fortunes we transfer to them) is that there is a significant pro Israeli body in the US combined house. This has always been the case and Obama navigates these waters but simply watching the results of his policy one sees who benefits. This is simply my opinion in regard to statements in the above post. (It should be noted that the country (Egypt) who most rejected the MB lately had public indictments of Obama and the US policy in supporting MB significantly. This is among the chief reasons Egypt and UAE did not consult the US when the recently launched a joint strike on islamist targets in Libya).

[atyclb]

fair use snippet Jewish survivors and descendants of survivors and victims of Nazi genocide unequivocally condemn the massacre of Palestinians in Gaza

http://ijsn.net/gaza/survivors-and-descendants-letter/

[arjunadawn]

fair use snippet Jewish survivors and descendants of survivors and victims of Nazi genocide unequivocally condemn the massacre of Palestinians in Gaza

http://ijsn.net/gaza/survivors-and-descendants-letter/

Should a Jew condemn a Jew their position is not made more valid because they have a star of david, terrible misfortune previously, or any other bona fides. A person's point of view is only valuable insofar as it actually meets standards of reason or other relevant value. Yet it is exactly the emotive to which they aim. They banded together to increase numbers to suggest a specific gravity regarding their point of view, and capitalize on previous, terrible, associations. This is evident. This fact alone does not constitute a valid voice, per se.

Contrary to the value some might muse this means it demonstrates to me that Jews are not a "block." They represent any similarly constituted segment of society. They have a core, peripheral points of view, some radicals, and also outliers. This is a normal constitution of society. But the singular voice being contrived for this article has no more validity to me than my own observations.

Note: Their closing summation is correct of course. However, their naivete will not achieve the goal they aim for.

Edited August 28, 2014 by arjunadawn

[Halion]

Netanyahu showing his true agenda; Do not concede to any demands, even the reasonable, legitimate and fair ones.

This is why peace talks always fail.

Wake up and smell the roses, there is nothing reasonable or legitimate about Hamas

[keemapoot]

It is a victory for Hammas in one important respect. They have reestablished themselves as an important player in the Middle East, especially now that the Muslim Brotherhood etc., have been marginalized. Importantly, going forward, they have inserted themselves into any process with Israel regarding the Palestinians.

Actually this is not the case. On the regional level, Hamas definitely took a hit. It got little support from former backers, and very

little by way of effective support from Arab and Muslim countries in general. Egypt managed to leave Turkey and Katar mostly

out of the way and with its current unfavorable disposition toward Hamas, and while holding the keys to the Gaza Strip, things

aren't going to be easy for Hamas.

As far as Palestinian domestic politics go, it is still a bit early to tell. Hamas got the expected surge in support during most of the

fighting, but there were also other voices which saw its actions as futile, counterproductive and harmful for Gazans. On the same

note, it is worth mentioning that despite consistent Hamas calls for Palestinians in the West Bank to stage an uprising, relatively

little of this happened. While Abbas's position does not seem much improved at the moment, I would venture a guess that the

gains in public opinion made by Hamas are temporary. That is not to say, of course, that they are irrelevant or that their power

was diminished, far from it.

It is interesting to watch Saudi and Qatar flexing their sizable financial muscles and filling the vacuum left by the U.S. and general western disengagement in the region. And, in terms of influence in Egypt, Saudi seems to be winning with the decline of the Muslim Brotherhood. I wonder if Saudi will take an ever increasing role in broader Middle East influence, including Palestinian issues?

[Ulysses G.]

As for the rest of the world and the US. Well Obama never liked Netanyahu anyway so who cares? The black golf player is leaving in a couple of years ....

(emphasis added in response)

This is the respect Israeli apologists have for their main supporter on the world stage?

No wonder they treat their enemies as less than human if this is how they view their friends.

There it is again. The relentless demonization of Israel, the Jew of nations. Israel is a country. It doesn't need apology or no apology any more than any other established nation. If you're talking about specific Israeli policies or specific Israeli politicians, of course that's another matter. The Israel demonizers really go too far in trashing an entire nation of millions of people instead of focusing RATIONALLY on criticism of SPECIFIC POLICIES.

JT, I usually only check on your paranoia if I need some light relief.

JT is spot on as usual.

[loongdavid]

Israel, created by League of Nations, destroyed by Hamas and all in a matter of three generations. I think the USA and in particular the New York Jewish lobby, should rethink just where their money is going and what good it is doing. Israel is fast losing any friends it might have had and no-one wants to be on a losing side.

[Ulysses G.]

Israel, created by League of Nations, destroyed by Hamas and all in a matter of three generations.

Israel is thriving and Hamas just got their butts badly kicked, yet again. Delusional much?

[loongdavid]

Israel, created by League of Nations, destroyed by Hamas and all in a matter of three generations.

Israel is thriving and Hamas just got their butts badly kicked, yet again. Delusional much?

When Hamas sets off its first tactical nuclear device (made in North Korea), in down-town Tel Aviv then I guess you'll be doing more than laughing. Then I would bet that ALL Arab nations will join forces very quickly - quite a shift really.

[Ulysses G.]

Duh! It would destroy all the Palestinians too, but I guess that you are not bothered by that. Delusional indeed.

Edited August 29, 2014 by Ulysses G.