Does Britain have a jihadi problem?

[arjunadawn]

May I make some comments on your thinking?

The enemy of my enemy is not necessarily my friend, and thus those that oppose your position may not support what you oppose; You are correct to say you would be sliding into false logic and (possibly) wrong conclusions if you thought otherwise.

I think it important that if you are going to maintain that you have no problem with Muslims then you should make the distinction of "some" Muslims when talking about "the underlying ideology that motivates (them) to antithetical actions.....", and "Therefore..the actions of (some) Muslims are fair game..." etc. Without the distinction, you do lump all Muslims together and it is simply not true that the majority of Muslims perform actions antithetical with civilised life.

You make an understandable argument that the silent majority show tacit endorsement for the terrorism, but it is not a conclusive argument at all. There may be many reasons you do not hear much outcry. Ennui, fear of reprisal, lack of opportunity, lack of cohesive society are some possibilities that do not imply tacit agreement. Lack of media coverage (because it's not as sensational a story as a beheading) could be another. The deafening silence is most certainly NOT a declaration of approval.

It may be contrary to your intuition, but others have intuition of their own, based on their own experiences and knowledge. What you have is an unsubstantiated belief, albeit with some things that compel you. Thus alternate (and also unsubstantiated) views are no more fantasy than your own.

" the many and varied polls taken from muslims throughout the world suggesting an alarming passive support for jihadi actions. ", Are you sure this is statistics presented in a genuine way? Can you provide a few of the many?

Yes, you could be correct. I know. It is possible my fears discriminate what I process, finally. I wont go into polls as someone else just covered that. But I can only state that when all the noise of arguments are set aside and I just sit with my gut I am keenly aware that a growing darkness is spreading throughout the western world. I cannot escape that, but I can qualify my positions in regard to muslims in the future.

You said you have no problem with Muslims. I get the sense that you write the word, a proper noun, deliberately with a lower case initial. Or perhaps my sense is completely off on this, I know it could be.

Back to your unease. Has anyone asked the question of "Why is a dark and hateful ideology gaining recruits?" I mean, there's cults everywhere, and there's something for everyone, but why this one? What is attractive about it.

<What is attractive about it.>

Islam means submission. It is attractive to those that want to be told what to do and not have to make any decisions for themselves, like thinking about the morality of what they do.

Yes, and along the way to the inevitable theocratic despot that will percolate to the top of a caliphate or such, joiners attracted get to exercise an authority disproportionate to their station in life. Whereas authority may come from either inherent leadership or assigned leadership (like a mall security cop who flunked the police academy), Islam enables even the dolt to have a place, to join, and to employ powers "In the name of..."

[arjunadawn]

I rather had in mind a longer period of analysis than just one month, I was thinking in terms of a profile and comparison covering say, the past two hundred years!

Why 200 years?

We are debating the here and now.

If somebody wants to put up a list of things that happened in a particular month, that's fine, just don't point to that list and try to tell us that the list is evidence of anything other than what happened in that timeframe, statistically it is irrelevant and doesn't make as case for anything. If on the other hand, a person wanted to try and compare the behavior of entire religions globally, a longer time frame is required in order to derive a meaningful conclusion, 200 years, 300 years, 500 years, they're all fine, one month is not.

Ok. Look at the first two jihads over the past 1300+ years! Countless millions murdered in the name of Islam, eclipsing all other depraved genocides.

[canman]

I have read this fatwa again and it will ultimately be useless. I suspect within the next week you will see increasingly more critique of this fatwa by jihadi watch groups. A lot of observers (IMO) will reject this fatwa. This fatwa contained two religious citations, both of which are equvicol.

In the first citation an early verse in the koran is cited: 5:1, and the second fairly close in Islamic history- 8:72. The koran is based on "abrogation." This means that for every part of the koran any later part that addresses even remotely the same issue supersedes the former. There are 114 suras in the koran- a lot of wiggle room here and the jihadis will see this immediately.

Also, it contains a flagrant lie, one which reveals who the intended audience really is. "Muslims" have no capacity to be signatories to the Geneva Convention, etc. This fatwa cannot withstand the scrutiny of even cursory review.

https://makkah.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/fatwa-against-isis.jpg

http://www.islam-watch.org/authors/165-jon-mc/1564-uk-imams-fatwa-against-british-muslims-joining-the-islamic-state.html

I think your interpretation of the Geneva Convention part of the fatwa is quite wrong and portrays the fatwa incorrectly.

It speaks in the context of international agreements that everyone has signed up to, including Muslims. I would be quite correct to say that Christians have signed the Convention too. Look at the 196 signatory countries. There are many Muslim countries on that list.

This is quite clear to all but those that prefer the fatwa to not be an example of how there is NOT a deafening silence that condones IS. There is no flagrant lie unless the lie is when an Islamaphobe deliberately tries to misinterpret the fatwa.

Fatwa, shatwa, plotwa. It's just words. People can spill out words as easy as a frog can croak. Ayotollay Komeini, while leader of Iran, wrote his interpretation of Islamic laws. One of his inserts (pun intended) was, in effect: 'it's ok for a man to stick his dong in to a young girl, as long as it doesn't go farther than the crown of his dong.' It's also OK, according to the revered Ayotollay, to rub your hard on a little boy's leg while the kid is sitting on your lap. Big question: would you hire a Muslim man to baby-sit your kids?

Also: even if there's a Mumbai-style outbreak in England (armed Muslim bad guys creating havoc), there will be a reaction by police, but it won't be a blanket response - such as forced expulsion of sectors of Muslims. It won't happen. Neither UK, nor any other European country can put the toothpaste back in the tube. Even if confronted, the baddest of the bad boys can simple say the right words, "It wasn't me. I'm a British citizen and I love my country" ...and he'll be let off. He can even say "Oh those extremists, I hate 'em. They cause so much trouble." Again, it's words. Words are cheap. Words can change as easily as the mind, and thoughts can change 10 times a second.

Some more recent fatwas:

The Fatwa: Grand Mufti Sheikh Ibn Baaz: The Sun Revolves Around the Earth

In a 2000 Fatwa titled “The Transmitted and Sensory Proofs of the Rotation of the Sun and Stillness of the Earth”, Saudi Arabian Grand Mufti Sheikh Ibn Baaz asserted that the earth was flat and disk-like and that the sun revolved around it. He had insisted that satellite images to the contrary were nothing but a Western conspiracy against the Islamic world.

Source: Al-Ahram Weekly Issue 477, 13-19 April, 2000.

The Fatwa: Malaysian National Fatwa Council: Tomboy fatwa

A University of Massachusetts study recently reported that girls who play sports have higher self esteem, and are less likely to enter (or remain in) abusive relationships. Could this fact have threatened the he-men at the Malaysia National Fatwa Council? Maybe. Perhaps that’s why Kuala Lumpur had a near riot on their hands when the Sisters in Islam marched against a Malaysian fatwa banning tomboys, which branded any girls who act un-ladylike as violating Islamic tenets. Fortunately, the as-yet undefined punishment for Malaysian girls in t-shirts and jeans hasn’t been incorporated into Sharia law yet.

Source: The Malaysian Insider

The Fatwa: Muhammad Al-Munajid: Bring Me the Head of Mickey Mouse

That’s right, somebody put on hit on Mickey Mouse. Calling Mickey “one of Satan’s soldiers,” Sheikh Muhammad Al-Munajid decreed that household mice and their cartoon cousins must be “killed in all cases”, according to the U.K.’s Daily Telegraph.

And get this—the guy’s not your average nutjob, either—Munajid used to be a former diplomat at the Saudi embassy in Washington D.C. He made the remarks on Arab television network al-Majd TV after he was asked to give Islam’s teaching on mice.

But don’t worry, Mickey won’t be alone. Munajid also put a hit on Jerry from “Tom and Jerry”. Maybe they could rent a flat with Salman Rushdie (above).

Source: Report: Saudi Cleric Says Mickey Mouse ‘Must Die’

The Fatwa: Football fatwa

No, not even the beautiful game is safe from stupid fatwas. As part of a government drive to eliminate frivolous fatwas, the Saudi newspaper Al Watan lampooned one very real edict setting out new rules for football. Ridiculous demands included “do not play with 11 people like the heretics, Jews, and Christians”, and “play in your pyjamas or regular clothes (because) colored shorts and numbered T-shirts are not Muslim clothing”. Especially ridiculous is the edict to “remove the crossbar in order not to imitate the heretics and in order to be entirely distinct from the soccer system’s despotic international rules.”

Source: “A Fatwa on Football”, The Guardian, Monday 31 October 2005.

The Fatwa: Infidel Vaccine

Polio is actually increasing in India, Nigeria, Afghanistan and Pakistan. Why? Because an anti-polio fatwa by anti-Western clerics forbid Pakistani children from immunizations, because the clerics are saying the vaccine is a conspiracy to make Muslims sterile. Ironically, it’s the clerics’ plans that would produce this result, as dead/paralytic kids don’t breed all that much.

Source: “POLIO ERADICATION: Looking for a Little Luck”, Roberts Science 6 February 2009

And on and on it goes. Anyone how believes a fatwa issued in the UK has any real world effect is not living on the same planet as I am.

[arjunadawn]

Some more recent fatwas:

The Fatwa: Grand Mufti Sheikh Ibn Baaz: The Sun Revolves Around the Earth

In a 2000 Fatwa titled “The Transmitted and Sensory Proofs of the Rotation of the Sun and Stillness of the Earth”, Saudi Arabian Grand Mufti Sheikh Ibn Baaz asserted that the earth was flat and disk-like and that the sun revolved around it. He had insisted that satellite images to the contrary were nothing but a Western conspiracy against the Islamic world.

Source: Al-Ahram Weekly Issue 477, 13-19 April, 2000.

The Fatwa: Malaysian National Fatwa Council: Tomboy fatwa

A University of Massachusetts study recently reported that girls who play sports have higher self esteem, and are less likely to enter (or remain in) abusive relationships. Could this fact have threatened the he-men at the Malaysia National Fatwa Council? Maybe. Perhaps that’s why Kuala Lumpur had a near riot on their hands when the Sisters in Islam marched against a Malaysian fatwa banning tomboys, which branded any girls who act un-ladylike as violating Islamic tenets. Fortunately, the as-yet undefined punishment for Malaysian girls in t-shirts and jeans hasn’t been incorporated into Sharia law yet.

Source: The Malaysian Insider

The Fatwa: Muhammad Al-Munajid: Bring Me the Head of Mickey Mouse

That’s right, somebody put on hit on Mickey Mouse. Calling Mickey “one of Satan’s soldiers,” Sheikh Muhammad Al-Munajid decreed that household mice and their cartoon cousins must be “killed in all cases”, according to the U.K.’s Daily Telegraph.

And get this—the guy’s not your average nutjob, either—Munajid used to be a former diplomat at the Saudi embassy in Washington D.C. He made the remarks on Arab television network al-Majd TV after he was asked to give Islam’s teaching on mice.

But don’t worry, Mickey won’t be alone. Munajid also put a hit on Jerry from “Tom and Jerry”. Maybe they could rent a flat with Salman Rushdie (above).

Source: Report: Saudi Cleric Says Mickey Mouse ‘Must Die’

The Fatwa: Football fatwa

No, not even the beautiful game is safe from stupid fatwas. As part of a government drive to eliminate frivolous fatwas, the Saudi newspaper Al Watan lampooned one very real edict setting out new rules for football. Ridiculous demands included “do not play with 11 people like the heretics, Jews, and Christians”, and “play in your pyjamas or regular clothes (because) colored shorts and numbered T-shirts are not Muslim clothing”. Especially ridiculous is the edict to “remove the crossbar in order not to imitate the heretics and in order to be entirely distinct from the soccer system’s despotic international rules.”

Source: “A Fatwa on Football”, The Guardian, Monday 31 October 2005.

The Fatwa: Infidel Vaccine

Polio is actually increasing in India, Nigeria, Afghanistan and Pakistan. Why? Because an anti-polio fatwa by anti-Western clerics forbid Pakistani children from immunizations, because the clerics are saying the vaccine is a conspiracy to make Muslims sterile. Ironically, it’s the clerics’ plans that would produce this result, as dead/paralytic kids don’t breed all that much.

Source: “POLIO ERADICATION: Looking for a Little Luck”, Roberts Science 6 February 2009

And on and on it goes. Anyone how believes a fatwa issued in the UK has any real world effect is not living on the same planet as I am.

However, some fatwas are meaningful and go the heart of decency and our shared concerns:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/12/10/the-fatwa-against-women-touching-bananas-and-other-stupid-islamic-orders.html

[bridge2bridge]

YES!!! Over the past several years in England the militants etc. have hidden behind the protection of the governments "politically correct" agenda. "Do not say anything to offend them", we are multicultural, why is it though that in their country there is no such thing as multicultural? well, it is too late, they have taken over I am sad to say.

p.s. It is a well known fact that by the year 2021 their will be enough muslims in the uk to vote in an islamic government....

TOTALLY AGREE.

[boomerangutang]

If somebody wants to put up a list of things that happened in a particular month, that's fine,

Just the first week of the month and yet:

Islam's Latest Contributions to Peace"Mohammed is God's apostle. Those who follow him are harsh

to the unbelievers but merciful to one another" Quran 48:29

2014.09.06 (Arsal, Lebanon) - Another captive is beheaded by caliphate terrorists. 2014.09.05 (Rawalpindi, Pakistan) - A female polio worker is shot to death in her home by suspected fundamentalists. 2014.09.05 (Ashara, Syria) - A youth is executed and crucified to punish other residents calling for an end to the caliphate. 2014.09.04 (Sulaiman Bek, Iraq) - The bodies of thirty-five truck drivers, kidnapped months earlier by Sunni militants are discovered in a mass grave. 2014.09.04 (Karrada, Iraq) - A half-dozen innocents are slain when fundamentalists set off a bomb near alcohol shops. 2014.09.04 (Ghazni, Afghanistan) - Fundamentalists set off a massive truck bomb outside a government office, killing eighteen.

.....and that's just in the dune countries. Doesn't mention organized idiocy in Asia or Africa or the Americas. Kudos to canman's post #798 for showing some examples. Ebola is a pathogen raging in western Africa, extremist Muslim insanity is a pathogen which is festering in many parts of the world. What to do about it? I don't know, but if I had kids, I'd sure try to keep them out of harm's way.

[chiang mai]

An interesting article:

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/after-the-atrocities-committed-against-muslims-in-bosnia-it-is-nowonder-todays-jihadis-have-set-out-on-the-path-to-war-in-syria-9717384.html

[7by7]

<snip>

It is a well known fact that by the year 2021 their will be enough muslims in the uk to vote in an islamic government....

TOTALLY AGREE.

Well known by whom?

According to the last, 2011, census, the Muslims made up 4.4% of the population of the UK (source); that's all Muslims, not just those of voting age.

Even if those Muslims under 18 in 2011 reach 18 by2021 and all UK Muslims breed like rabbits, so much so that the Muslim population passes 50%, the children born in those 10 years would not be old enough to vote in 2021; nor in 2025 when the next general election after 2021 would actually be.

"What about immigration?" I hear you ask. The present UK immigration and naturalisation rules mean that the likelihood of enough Muslims entering the UK and becoming British citizens, thus eligible to vote in Parliamentary elections, to bring the eligible to vote UK Muslim population above 50% is zero.

Not forgetting, of course, that Muslims cover all points of the mainstream political spectrum. All three main parties have Muslim members and Muslim local councillors; both the Conservatives and Labour have Muslim MPs; not to mention Muslim members of the House of Lords, MEPs etc. representing all parties.

Although I accept that parties like the BNP have very many Muslim members!

So, apart from your scenario being mathematically impossible, it would also require all those Muslims currently members and supporters of the mainstream parties to suddenly switch their allegiance!

Sorry to burst you bubble, guys; it aint going to happen.

[Ulysses G.]

Sorry to burst you bubble, guys; it aint going to happen.

I'm pretty sure that is what they are hoping for.

[jacky54]

According to the last, 2011, census, the Muslims made up 4.4% of the population of the UK (source); that's all Muslims, not just those of voting age.

But many do not fill out the census,especially the illegal and those claiming single person council tax rebate.When there are 4 or 5 living in the same house, in that case only one fills in the form.

[7by7]

I see that yet again examples of what Muslim moderates are dong to combat extremism have been dismissed by the xenophobic Islamaphobes as 'lies.'

I see that, yet again, they see only atrocities carried out by Muslims but are blind to atrocities carried out by others.

I see that, yet again, they consider all Muslims to be extremists and jihadists.

Fortunately, the majority of Muslims, worldwide and in the UK, are no such thing.

Fortunately, the majority of the UK non Muslim population know this.

Fortunately, the xenophobic Islamaphobes are as small a minority in the non Muslim world as the extremist Muslim jihadists are in the Muslim world.

No one can deny that Muslim extremism is a problem the world must deal with.

No one can deny that the radicalisation of Muslim youth in the UK is a growing problem that has to be dealt with.

The former is for governments to do, the latter is for individuals and groups to combat, with government help where necessary.

Radicalisation in the UK, as has been shown, is being tackled in the UK by many Muslim groups, and others.

Dismissing their efforts as lies and demonising all Muslims is not going to help the problem; the opposite, it is going to make it worse. People who are continually attacked for their ethnicity and/or religion may take it for a while, but eventually they will turn away from the moderates and start listening to the extremists.

Which I can only surmise is what the xenophobic Islamaphobes here want. So that they can then turn round and say "See, we were right all along!"

Fortunately, though, this is only an internet forum, and few, if any, of those posting their hate here actually live in the UK; so what they say here has no real effect at all.

But that wont deter them; they will continue to do so, they will continue to ignore everything which shows their views to be irrational and wrong, they will continue to label all who disagree with their opinion "apologists for and excusers and justifiers of terrorism."

Let them continue their mutual mass debating; it is of little consequence in the real world.

[7by7]

Sorry to burst you bubble, guys; it aint going to happen.

I'm pretty sure that is what they are hoping for.

A pathetic comment.

What evidence do you have that the majority of British Muslims want to turn the UK into an Islamic state; even if such a thing were possible; which it isn't.

According to the last, 2011, census, the Muslims made up 4.4% of the population of the UK (source); that's all Muslims, not just those of voting age.

But many do not fill out the census,especially the illegal and those claiming single person council tax rebate.When there are 4 or 5 living in the same house, in that case only one fills in the form.

Firstly, people in the UK illegally cannot vote.

Secondly, even if someone is illegally claiming the single persons council tax rebate when 4, 5 or more live with them, to vote those people have got to register. Bit of a give away!

Thirdly, even if what you say is true, it would need every single Muslim household in the UK to have something like 10 times as many people living in it than declared on the census form to come even close to brining the adult Muslim population of the UK to more than 50% of the total.

Classic examples of ignoring the truth and insisting that all Muslims must be liars and fraudsters from you both; again.

[Ulysses G.]

Sorry to burst you bubble, guys; it aint going to happen.

I'm pretty sure that is what they are hoping for.

A pathetic comment.

What evidence do you have that the majority of British Muslims want to turn the UK into an Islamic state; even if such a thing were possible; which it isn't.

Brush up on your reading skills. Where did I even suggest such a thing? Please stop putting words in other people's mouths, that they did not say, to suit your own agenda.

Edited September 8, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[H1w4yR1da]

I see that, yet again, they see only atrocities carried out by Muslims but are blind to atrocities carried out by others.

Others? What others are you prattling on about?

Pray do tell!

What others are beheading people on the streets of London?

What others are grooming/raping children in northern towns?

What others are blowing up commuter underground trains and buses in London?

What others are murdering their daughters for refusing arranged marriages?

I could go on and on but I think even you should get the point by now.

[H1w4yR1da]

I see that yet again examples of what Muslim moderates are dong to combat extremism have been dismissed by the xenophobic Islamaphobes as 'lies.'....

....Radicalisation in the UK, as has been shown, is being tackled in the UK by many Muslim groups, and others.

Yeah right! Your moderate Muslims did such a great job of acting on the information given to them on the Rotherham atrocities. Edited September 8, 2014 by H1w4yR1da

[7by7]

Sorry to burst you bubble, guys; it aint going to happen.

I'm pretty sure that is what they are hoping for.

A pathetic comment.

What evidence do you have that the majority of British Muslims want to turn the UK into an Islamic state; even if such a thing were possible; which it isn't.

Brush up on your reading skills. Where did I even suggest such a thing? Please stop putting words in other people's mouths, that they did not say, to suit your own agenda.

So what did your comment mean?

[jacky54]

I see that yet again examples of what Muslim moderates are dong to combat extremism have been dismissed by the xenophobic Islamaphobes as 'lies.'

I spy with my little eye apologies, apologies, apologies. I think many posters said they were doing very little and not enough, nobody called their pathetic attempts do say something 'lies'

Edited September 8, 2014 by jacky54

[7by7]

I see that, yet again, they see only atrocities carried out by Muslims but are blind to atrocities carried out by others.

Others? What others are you prattling on about?

Pray do tell!

What others are beheading people on the streets of London?

What others are grooming/raping children in northern towns?

What others are blowing up commuter underground trains and buses in London?

What others are murdering their daughters for refusing arranged marriages?

I could go on and on but I think even you should get the point by now.

Atrocities in other parts of the world is what I am 'prattling on about.'

I know you like to believe that all Muslims are guilty of the crimes you list; but they are not.

You must try harder; very poor effort.

I see that yet again examples of what Muslim moderates are dong to combat extremism have been dismissed by the xenophobic Islamaphobes as 'lies.'....

....Radicalisation in the UK, as has been shown, is being tackled in the UK by many Muslim groups, and others.

Yeah right! Your moderate Muslims did such a great job of acting on the information given to them on the Rotherham atrocities.

It was the police and Rotherham social services who did an atrocious job in acting on the information given to them on the Rotherham abuse case.

Pray tell, how many of them are Muslim; moderate or otherwise.

Irrelevant to this topic, anyway.

Radical Muslim jihadists were not responsible for this horrendous abuse; evil perverted men were.

Just as evil perverted men were responsible for this abuse: St Francis Boys' Home sex abuse inquiry: Police review evidence

A case which seems to have been as badly handled by the authorities as the Rochdale one; Shefford's St Francis orphanage inquiry call over 'destroyed abuse files'

[7by7]

I see that yet again examples of what Muslim moderates are dong to combat extremism have been dismissed by the xenophobic Islamaphobes as 'lies.'

I spy with my little eye apologies, apologies, apologies. I think many posters said they were doing very little and not enough, nobody called their pathetic attempts do say something 'lies'

You should read back through the various topics, comments like 'they (Muslims) say one thing to outsiders but believe the opposite' abound.

So, who am I apologising for?

Are you repeating the calumny that because someone does not accept your opinion that they must be supporters of and apologists for terrorism?

That has been said often enough in these topics, by you and others.

Edited September 8, 2014 by 7by7

[Ulysses G.]

So what did your comment mean?

The posters that you were addressing - the "guys" are hoping that "it ain't going to happen" - Muslims taking over the UK.

Sorry to burst you bubble, guys; it aint going to happen.

I'm pretty sure that is what they are hoping for.

Edited September 8, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[7by7]

So what did your comment mean?

The posters that you were addressing - the "guys" are hoping that "it ain't going to happen" - Muslims taking over the UK.

So you are agreeing with me?

You agree it isn't going to happen; that Muslims are not going to take over the UK?

Then I apologise to you for my incorrect inference; it's just that the idea of you agreeing with anything I may say on this subject is difficult to believe!

[transam]

So what did your comment mean?

The posters that you were addressing - the "guys" are hoping that "it ain't going to happen" - Muslims taking over the UK.

So you are agreeing with me?

You agree it isn't going to happen; that Muslims are not going to take over the UK?

Then I apologise to you for my incorrect inference; it's just that the idea of you agreeing with anything I may say on this subject is difficult to believe!

He's right. In the end the Brit will rise when enough is enough....Wait and see.

[H1w4yR1da]

Atrocities in other parts of the world is what I am 'prattling on about.

The thread is about Jihad in Britain, not other parts of the world.

[7by7]

Then why do you and those who agree with you keep on bringing other parts of the world into it?

[transam]

Then why do you and those who agree with you keep on bringing other parts of the world into it?

Probably cos you ain't got a clue who is killing the innocent virtually world wide. On many topics like this one we have tried, AND tried to no avail, but I live in hope that your penny will drop. But I doubt it very much, sadly...

[H1w4yR1da]

It was the police and Rotherham social services who did an atrocious job in acting on the information given to them on the Rotherham abuse case.

Yes but wrong again on the role the Muslim community played in ignoring the report's findings.

The reporter in the original 2002 investigation approached Muslim 'leaders' in Rotherham with the findings and was rebuffed.

Edited September 8, 2014 by H1w4yR1da

[icare999]

I rather had in mind a longer period of analysis than just one month, I was thinking in terms of a profile and comparison covering say, the past two hundred years!

We weren't around 200 years ago. How about we deal with what's happening right now?

Taking a snapshot in time doesn't establish a trend or provide for sensible comparison against anything, stating that a series of events happened in a particular month is meaningless.

nonsense it shows as we all know a number of muslims are murdering bastards who do not belong in human race and while up to recently i have tried very hard to

speak out for moderate slims now I'm as racist if you like as most in UK. I now know none who does not loathe despise and hate all muslims to some degree weather its

fair or justified its a fact and it will explode sadly

[simple1]

It was the police and Rotherham social services who did an atrocious job in acting on the information given to them on the Rotherham abuse case.

Yes but wrong again on the role the Muslim community played in ignoring the report's findings.

The reporter in the original 2002 investigation approached Muslim 'leaders' in Rotherham with the findings and was rebuffed.

Off topic, but hopefully response permitted.

Fair enough, but how about the nine (?) reports / investigations since that time. A litany of failure of duty of care by UK authorities, for both white and Muslim children.

It wasn't until a 2012 report that the various investigation units obtained clearance for their efforts. Remember that investigations in Rotherham first commenced in the early 1990s when abuse of children was first highlighted (children in care). A few years later concern was raised with the level of youth street prostitution with nearly zero action by authorities and so it went on…

[jacky54]

This thread is about the UK's jihadist problem and not the Rotherham sex abuse by Muslims thread. The Pakistani Muslims in Rotherham do not appear to have been jihadists, just ordinary 'moderate' Muslims plying children with drink and drugs, jihadists would have been too busy on the Internet, down the mosque and plotting unpleasant atrocities to have time for that sort of carry on. All in all not people integrated, law abiding or peaceful.

[Albertosez]

It was the police and Rotherham social services who did an atrocious job in acting on the information given to them on the Rotherham abuse case.

Yes but wrong again on the role the Muslim community played in ignoring the report's findings.

The reporter in the original 2002 investigation approached Muslim 'leaders' in Rotherham with the findings and was rebuffed.

Off topic, but hopefully response permitted.

Fair enough, but how about the nine (?) reports / investigations since that time. A litany of failure of duty of care by UK authorities, for both white and Muslim children.

It wasn't until a 2012 report that the various investigation units obtained clearance for their efforts. Remember that investigations in Rotherham first commenced in the early 1990s when abuse of children was first highlighted (children in care). A few years later concern was raised with the level of youth street prostitution with nearly zero action by authorities and so it went on

To pick up on your point, albeit off topic, let's get this clear. The authorities certainly have a huge amount to answer for and I personally would like to see the main culprits all named, shamed and sacked. However, let's also remember that the authorities were not the ones abusing, raping and threaten to kill the young children of Rotherham.....and other towns and cities too. Let's be very, very clear who those perpetrators were; " they were Pakistani Muslim Men " - whose Islamic Beliefs and Learnings taught them that this sort of behavior was not only acceptable, but was also actually encouraged as per the scriptures of the Koran and various hate speeches and Islamic Religious Leaders that spout their filth in the name of their illogical beliefs !

Let's be very clear about the root cause of this - " you can't forgive a rapist just because the Policeman didn't catch him !! "