Does Britain have a jihadi problem?

[Scott]

Please try to be civil and to stay on the topic. This is from the OP:

Britain, America's closest ally, is now one of the West's biggest incubators of Islamic extremism.

About 500 people linked to Britain have joined the ranks of ISIS -- the militant group that has declared an Islamic state in Syria and Iraq -- in the past several years, according to the UK's Home Office. Roughly half have now returned to Britain, prompting fears that these radicalized recruits are preparing to wage jihad against targets in the West.

The topic is not limited only to jihad in Britain, it includes people from Britain involved in Jihad and those who may be targeting the West in general.

[JockPieandBeans]

Please try to be civil and to stay on the topic. This is from the OP:

Britain, America's closest ally, is now one of the West's biggest incubators of Islamic extremism.

About 500 people linked to Britain have joined the ranks of ISIS -- the militant group that has declared an Islamic state in Syria and Iraq -- in the past several years, according to the UK's Home Office. Roughly half have now returned to Britain, prompting fears that these radicalized recruits are preparing to wage jihad against targets in the West.

The topic is not limited only to jihad in Britain, it includes people from Britain involved in Jihad and those who may be targeting the West in general.

But But But

Its all a conspiracy.

Its not true.

They were forced at gunpoint.

Big bad men done it, and blamed them.

There is something clearly wrong with people, who get on their collective knees 5 times a day, to pay homage to the figment of someone's imagination.

[Seastallion]

According to the last, 2011, census, the Muslims made up 4.4% of the population of the UK (source); that's all Muslims, not just those of voting age.

But many do not fill out the census,especially the illegal and those claiming single person council tax rebate.When there are 4 or 5 living in the same house, in that case only one fills in the form.

Your point is moot. 7x7 was responding to this sensationalist scaremongering false statement; " It is a well known fact that by the year 2021 their will be enough muslims in the uk to vote in an islamic government. ".

Your "illegals" do not vote.

[jacky54]

The illegals will probably have been given an amnesty in a few years by labour, knowing that they will most likely vote for them

[jacky54]

who is to blame for this sort of child jihadist in the UK?, mosques, family, or will somebody cite foreign policy as an excuse?

'I want Cameron's head on a spike': Female British jihadist hits out at PM 'for wars against Muslims' and says she doesn't care if she is stripped of her citizenship

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2748297/I-want-Cameron-s-head-spike-Female-British-jihadist-hits-PM-wars-against-Muslims-says-doesn-t-care-stripped-citizenship.html

Edited September 9, 2014 by jacky54

[mccw]

It was the police and Rotherham social services who did an atrocious job in acting on the information given to them on the Rotherham abuse case.

Yes but wrong again on the role the Muslim community played in ignoring the report's findings.

The reporter in the original 2002 investigation approached Muslim 'leaders' in Rotherham with the findings and was rebuffed.

Off topic, but hopefully response permitted.

Fair enough, but how about the nine (?) reports / investigations since that time. A litany of failure of duty of care by UK authorities, for both white and Muslim children.

It wasn't until a 2012 report that the various investigation units obtained clearance for their efforts. Remember that investigations in Rotherham first commenced in the early 1990s when abuse of children was first highlighted (children in care). A few years later concern was raised with the level of youth street prostitution with nearly zero action by authorities and so it went on…

This is part of the problem of labour and liberal media who softly softly; oh it's thier culture to force thier kids in to marriage; we should just accept it; turn a blind eye to all the Muslim crimes for fear of upsetting community relations.

Now finally small steps are being made; illegal to force girls in to marriage abroad for example; finally some things that are clearly against British morals are being stated as such and steps taken to enforce it, still just tiny steps.

[mccw]

who is to blame for this sort of child jihadist in the UK?, mosques, family, or will somebody cite foreign policy as an excuse?

'I want Cameron's head on a spike': Female British jihadist hits out at PM 'for wars against Muslims' and says she doesn't care if she is stripped of her citizenship

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2748297/I-want-Cameron-s-head-spike-Female-British-jihadist-hits-PM-wars-against-Muslims-says-doesn-t-care-stripped-citizenship.html

Mosques; imam and overseas "education"/ indoctrination; madrasahs and salafi. It's the funding to spread the evil from the centre out across the world. For decades already. All across SE Asia they send thier kids to Pakistan too and they come back crazy; take a sim view of thier old country ways and want to make thier countries extreme with Arab way like covering up the women in burkas etc. before when people didn't have internet or the money to travel and "learn" in the heart of darkness, the East Asian Muslims were never so extreme. Even most of the Middle East wasn't do extreme. My step father is a Christian from the Lebanon and in his youth the country was thriving culturally open; theatre; bars; music and dance; Beriut was know as the Paris of the Mediterranean, then the Islam revolution in Iran and the power of the Clerics grew and pulled the people down in to hatred and intolerance. You think we British have it bad? The non lunatic peoples of the Middle East have it the worst. Even the Muslims had secular revolutions to be free from the Clerics- like in Turkey for example. People want freedom even the Muslims. The problem is that being born a Muslim there is chance for turning back to the dark ways. Like Britian; many of the Muslims in the UK ran away from the extremists back home- only for thier own kids to turn in to extremist from watching the internet.

[mccw]

who is to blame for this sort of child jihadist in the UK?, mosques, family, or will somebody cite foreign policy as an excuse?

'I want Cameron's head on a spike': Female British jihadist hits out at PM 'for wars against Muslims' and says she doesn't care if she is stripped of her citizenship

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2748297/I-want-Cameron-s-head-spike-Female-British-jihadist-hits-PM-wars-against-Muslims-says-doesn-t-care-stripped-citizenship.html

Mosques; imam and overseas "education"/ indoctrination; madrasahs and salafi. It's the funding to spread the evil from the centre out across the world. For decades already. All across SE Asia they send thier kids to Pakistan too and they come back crazy; take a sim view of thier old country ways and want to make thier countries extreme with Arab way like covering up the women in burkas etc. before when people didn't have internet or the money to travel and "learn" in the heart of darkness, the East Asian Muslims were never so extreme. Even most of the Middle East wasn't do extreme. My step father is a Christian from the Lebanon and in his youth the country was thriving culturally open; theatre; bars; music and dance; Beriut was know as the Paris of the Mediterranean, then the Islam revolution in Iran and the power of the Clerics grew and pulled the people down in to hatred and intolerance. You think we British have it bad? The non lunatic peoples of the Middle East have it the worst. Even the Muslims had secular revolutions to be free from the Clerics- like in Turkey for example. People want freedom even the Muslims. The problem is that being born a Muslim there is chance for turning back to the dark ways. Like Britian; many of the Muslims in the UK ran away from the extremists back home- only for thier own kids to turn in to extremist from watching the internet.

[simple1]

It was the police and Rotherham social services who did an atrocious job in acting on the information given to them on the Rotherham abuse case.

Yes but wrong again on the role the Muslim community played in ignoring the report's findings.

The reporter in the original 2002 investigation approached Muslim 'leaders' in Rotherham with the findings and was rebuffed.

Off topic, but hopefully response permitted.

Fair enough, but how about the nine (?) reports / investigations since that time. A litany of failure of duty of care by UK authorities, for both white and Muslim children.

It wasn't until a 2012 report that the various investigation units obtained clearance for their efforts. Remember that investigations in Rotherham first commenced in the early 1990s when abuse of children was first highlighted (children in care). A few years later concern was raised with the level of youth street prostitution with nearly zero action by authorities and so it went on

To pick up on your point, albeit off topic, let's get this clear. The authorities certainly have a huge amount to answer for and I personally would like to see the main culprits all named, shamed and sacked. However, let's also remember that the authorities were not the ones abusing, raping and threaten to kill the young children of Rotherham.....and other towns and cities too. Let's be very, very clear who those perpetrators were; " they were Pakistani Muslim Men " - whose Islamic Beliefs and Learnings taught them that this sort of behavior was not only acceptable, but was also actually encouraged as per the scriptures of the Koran and various hate speeches and Islamic Religious Leaders that spout their filth in the name of their illogical beliefs !

Let's be very clear about the root cause of this - " you can't forgive a rapist just because the Policeman didn't catch him !! "

I for one have never made or inferred the highlighted comment, don't believe anyone else has either. Usual miss representation for which 'likes' are given.

[simple1]

The New Jihadist Generation.

A fairly lenghty article that reviews the growth and causual contributions to ultra Islamic extremism manifested by Islamic State The article mentions foreign policy matters, do people disagree with the content, if so why? An example:

This policy of “divide and conquer” proliferated in the mid-eastern and Maghreb regions during the time of what was known as the “Arab Spring”. The US, via NATO, as well as the monarchies in Saudi Arabia and Qatar, and Turkey made use of the region like a chessboard, constantly interfering in the successive social outbursts that took place in Egypt, Libya, Syria. Iraq. Outside intervention has been indirect by means of funding for fundamentalist Jihadi groups with petrodollars. One of the groups involved is the IS.

http://foreignpolicynews.org/2014/08/17/islamic-state-new-jihadist-generation/

[mccw]

Intervening in the Sebia conflict was probably a big mistake. Not like the Muslims given any thanks for it either.

Kosovo has right to independence but East Ukraine , basque or Catalan do not.

It's all a load of <deleted>.

Right or wrong have no part in any of it. Morals are just for propaganda. The course of action always based on the geo-political plans of the string pullers.

[jacky54]

Yes I thought so, it's all the fault of the evil westerners and what they did in Muslim lands, that where of course not Muslim lands at all until Islam invaded them in the first place. Perhaps you can list all the injustices heaped on Islam around the world? Remind us again why were planes flown into the WTC????

Edited September 9, 2014 by jacky54

[Steely Dan]

who is to blame for this sort of child jihadist in the UK?, mosques, family, or will somebody cite foreign policy as an excuse?

'I want Cameron's head on a spike': Female British jihadist hits out at PM 'for wars against Muslims' and says she doesn't care if she is stripped of her citizenship

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2748297/I-want-Cameron-s-head-spike-Female-British-jihadist-hits-PM-wars-against-Muslims-says-doesn-t-care-stripped-citizenship.html

Mosques; imam and overseas "education"/ indoctrination; madrasahs and salafi. It's the funding to spread the evil from the centre out across the world. For decades already. All across SE Asia they send thier kids to Pakistan too and they come back crazy; take a sim view of thier old country ways and want to make thier countries extreme with Arab way like covering up the women in burkas etc. before when people didn't have internet or the money to travel and "learn" in the heart of darkness, the East Asian Muslims were never so extreme. Even most of the Middle East wasn't do extreme. My step father is a Christian from the Lebanon and in his youth the country was thriving culturally open; theatre; bars; music and dance; Beriut was know as the Paris of the Mediterranean, then the Islam revolution in Iran and the power of the Clerics grew and pulled the people down in to hatred and intolerance. You think we British have it bad? The non lunatic peoples of the Middle East have it the worst. Even the Muslims had secular revolutions to be free from the Clerics- like in Turkey for example. People want freedom even the Muslims. The problem is that being born a Muslim there is chance for turning back to the dark ways. Like Britian; many of the Muslims in the UK ran away from the extremists back home- only for thier own kids to turn in to extremist from watching the internet.

You make a very good observation. Indeed some of the first Muslims to arrive in the UK were Armadis no doubt fleeing from religious persecution in a similar manner to French Hugenots. A Muslim wanting to live a western style secular life is always looking over their shoulder to see if the poisonous legacy they were born into has caught them up, alas our slack immigration policies, need for oil and misguided liberalism has let the madness spread. I would venture many older Muslims with UK roots going back generations must privately curse the idiots who brought us to this and look in horror as many of their children become radicalized as well.

[chiang mai]

Yes I thought so, it's all the fault of the evil westerners and what they did in Muslim lands, that where of course not Muslim lands at all until Islam invaded them in the first place. Perhaps you can list all the injustices heaped on Islam around the world? Remind us again why were planes flown into the WTC????

Once again you're dealing with headlines in a narrow historical band, if you want to understand why we are where we are today, understanding the history and the background is important. Did you actually read that article, of course not, you're too focused on repeating the same mantra's without really thinking about the issues.

[jacky54]

I never read the independent these days, it's just liberal limp wristed nonsense that helps jihadism flourish, it should be re titled the daily excuse. Did you read the koran? of course not you are too focused arguing the toss about something you don't really care about, or have any idea about anyway.

Edited September 9, 2014 by jacky54

[Steely Dan]

I can't help but look back a few years to when I first started posting on this forum. Back then I felt like a lone voice in the wilderness, with a few notable exceptions. I encountered far more censorship of my views and a lot of name calling and ridicule from many 'liberal' posters. Now things seem to have reversed, I'm pretty sure I reflect the majority, who are no longer a silent majority. It remains to be seen if this forum is a microcosm representing accurately the views of our compatriots.

With the announcement of the Caliphate I suspect things will now move pretty fast, probably too fast for the liking of our leaders, but it is my earnest hope that the genie of public awareness can now longer be stuffed back onto the bottle by those who think they know better and presume to steer the masses towards their own goals, whatever they may be.

[boomerangutang]

Recently, after hundreds of British jihadists winged it over to the dunes to fight for the new Caliphate, London's city fathers (including Cameron) sat up and went, "wait a beagle bugle blowin' minute old chap, those young men could possibly be up to no good." Cameron came out and said that all the young men who return to Britain will be 'detained and observed' or something like that - to see whether they should be possibly deprived of their British passports. Surprise surprise, as soon as the jihadists heard the news, they're clamoring to get to telephones to tell British authorities: "OH MY, I just went to the Middle East to fight against Syria. I'm not allied with IS! I want to come back right now!"

It's obvious what's happening. As soon as the hot-heads surmised that they might lose their Brit. citizenship and/or get popped in jail or deported ....then they immediately sat up and paid attention. It's no surprise where their real deep interests are: maintaining their Brit passport, ....and the heck with the hare-brained battles (and incessant shoutings of 'Allah Akbar') going on in the dunes.

I heard an update on that story today, and a representative of the Brit Foreign Office was asked (by the US NPR interviewer): "Are you going to allow the men to return, and if so, are you going to revoke their passports?"

Answer: "Well, we'll have to look at each person on a case by case basis. If it appears they were involved with hostilities, but they want to remain in Britain, we're going to ask them whether they will be alright with being watched for, let's say, seven years or so. In other words, we will watch their activities, affiliations, and so on."

Boomerangutang's spin: yet another proof that the British government makes efforts to appear tough, but yet again, they come off looking like pantywaist pussies. What the Brits should do is: flat out refuse to allow the hot-heads to re-enter Britain. Simple. If the rowdies took the effort to go to the M.East to fight for Allah, then let 'em go, pow, let 'em go back to sit in the sand with the new Caliphate. Like brushing dirt out the door - be done with them.

[mccw]

An interesting article:

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/after-the-atrocities-committed-against-muslims-in-bosnia-it-is-nowonder-todays-jihadis-have-set-out-on-the-path-to-war-in-syria-9717384.html

Good article in the Independent

After the atrocities committed against Muslims in Bosnia, it is no wonder today’s jihadis have set out on the path to war in Syria

Yes, perhaps UK is partly to blame for creating the jihadists in the first place; by its indifference to the plight of Muslims worldwide... it was 3 years before NATO stopped the ethnic cleansing of Muslims by Christians in Bosnia, and 67 years still counting with nothing done to stop their ethnic cleansing by Zionists in Palestine. Plus millions of their brothers and sisters killed in Iraq in a phony war that UK readily joined in looking for non existent WMD destroying a country in the process and fragmenting it into tribal and religious schisms.

Perhaps if UK and other world powers actually upheld their make believe high moral values and fought against injustices perpetrated on Muslims world wide rather than actually being part of the injustice, there wouldn’t be a terrorist problem.

As ye sow, so shall ye reap.

What about the atrocities being done by Muslims against other Muslims? These salafi Sunni lunatics are worse than Nazi; killing any on Sunni as an infidel; Shia; Christian; Yazidi; all minorities basically. They are not a movement fighting against western injustice, they are blood thirsty fundamentalists bent on total domination.

Islam it's self was spread by the sword; by violence.

Muhammad was jailed by his own people; a traitor, went to the other side proclaiming himself a prophet of God, he then used his new position to go back and conquer his birth thribe- Mohammad the traitor.

He then went on to wage war across the region. Mohammad the war monger.

The whole religion is built on violence.

Compare that to Jesus or Buddha!

[mccw]

Can't claim Muslim violence is a reaction only to western foreign policy. When they have been based on violent expansionism from the start.

[metisdead]

14) You will not post any copyrighted material except as fair use laws apply (as in the case of news articles). Please only post a link, the headline and the first three sentences.

One post has been removed as well as the replies.

[H1w4yR1da]

(and incessant shoutings of 'Allah Akbar') .

Is that what they shout?

I always thought it was 'Aloha Snackbar'.

[dexterm]

Please try to be civil and to stay on the topic. This is from the OP:

Britain, America's closest ally, is now one of the West's biggest incubators of Islamic extremism.

About 500 people linked to Britain have joined the ranks of ISIS -- the militant group that has declared an Islamic state in Syria and Iraq -- in the past several years, according to the UK's Home Office. Roughly half have now returned to Britain, prompting fears that these radicalized recruits are preparing to wage jihad against targets in the West.

The topic is not limited only to jihad in Britain, it includes people from Britain involved in Jihad and those who may be targeting the West in general.

There is something clearly wrong with people, who get on their collective knees 5 times a day, to pay homage to the figment of someone's imagination.

I think you'll find that all major religions in the world hear voices from and have conversations with imaginary supernatural friends. Your head of state and most of your government could thus be classified as having something wrong with them. So I'd skip that bit as a cogent argument in future, much as I agree with you.

[dexterm]

(and incessant shoutings of 'Allah Akbar') .

Is that what they shout?

I always thought it was 'Aloha Snackbar'.

Puerile Islamophobia.

[dexterm]

Can't claim Muslim violence is a reaction only to western foreign policy. When they have been based on violent expansionism from the start.

ditto for every major religion in world history.

[dexterm]

I can't help but look back a few years to when I first started posting on this forum. Back then I felt like a lone voice in the wilderness, with a few notable exceptions. I encountered far more censorship of my views and a lot of name calling and ridicule from many 'liberal' posters. Now things seem to have reversed, I'm pretty sure I reflect the majority, who are no longer a silent majority. It remains to be seen if this forum is a microcosm representing accurately the views of our compatriots.

With the announcement of the Caliphate I suspect things will now move pretty fast, probably too fast for the liking of our leaders, but it is my earnest hope that the genie of public awareness can now longer be stuffed back onto the bottle by those who think they know better and presume to steer the masses towards their own goals, whatever they may be.

It's when NATO boots on the ground get exchanged for body bags that the electorate will start to think .."Whoa..this is like deja vu all over again." Didn't we vote last time to get us out of foreign wars not into them.

[7by7]

Yes I thought so, it's all the fault of the evil westerners and what they did in Muslim lands, that where of course not Muslim lands at all until Islam invaded them in the first place. Perhaps you can list all the injustices heaped on Islam around the world? Remind us again why were planes flown into the WTC????

The WTC was in new York.

New York is in the USA; a predominantly Christian land.

Didn't used to be, though; until Christians invaded North America and stole the land from the indigenous people!

Maybe us Christian Anglo Saxons and Danes should all leave England and give it back to the Welsh and Cornish; but only those who still follow Druidism.

[H1w4yR1da]

(and incessant shoutings of 'Allah Akbar') .

Is that what they shout?

I always thought it was 'Aloha Snackbar'.

Puerile Islamophobia.

I beg to differ. It wasn't that puerile.

[mccw]

Can't claim Muslim violence is a reaction only to western foreign policy. When they have been based on violent expansionism from the start.

ditto for every major religion in world history.

No no no

Not ditto at all. Christians were persecuted minorities before coming to prominence.

Buddhism was mostly spread through envoys and Dhama teachings to other rulers.

Jesus and Buddha were both clearly advocates of non violence; where as Muhammad was a war monger and expansionist through violent means in his life time. They are totally different.

Sorry to burst your western lefty liberal equality idealism bubble here with cold hard facts.

I am not denying all religions have not been used by people as a means of control and conquest. That maybe human nature. But the root of each religion is different indeed. Can not deny it.

And in the present day it is that violence rooted religion that is on the war path again; killing all non belivers. On their own crusade. It's a young religion really. The Christian unfortunately went through spasms of violence- hopefully one day they will grow out of it.

[H1w4yR1da]

A German's View Of Islam

"We are told again and again by experts and talking heads that Islam is the religion of peace, and that the vast majority of Muslims just want to live in peace. Although this unquantified assertion may be true, it is entirely irrelevant."

http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/paul-marek/a-germans-view-of-islam/

Edited September 9, 2014 by H1w4yR1da

[H1w4yR1da]

Double

Edited September 9, 2014 by H1w4yR1da