Does Britain have a jihadi problem?

[jacky54]

Seems you have not read the bible and the Koran then, and do not see any difference in the lives of the Prophet and Jesus. This is part of the problem- ignorance!

[transam]

No one has denied there is a problem in the UK with fundamentalist Muslims.

No one has denied that a handful of mosques either promote this or allow others to use their premises to do so.

The problem lies not with 'fundamentalists' that's just a smoke screen, the problem lies with Islam itself, the Koran and the life of the Prophet, individual Muslims and groups however, you want to describe them are all the victims of it.

Do you understand how stupid your statements are, if the names of the religion are changed, no, I thought not!

The problem lies not with 'fundamentalists' that's just a smoke screen, the problem lies with Christianity itself, the Bible and the life of Jesus, individual Christians and groups however, you want to describe them are all the victims of it.

PS: the last part of your sentence made no sense to me.

Sorry ol' chum but that don't make sense to me. Are you saying Christianity is the real problem...?

[7by7]

Indeed, ignorance is part of the problem.

Try educating yourself, Jacky!

P.S.

I suspect that you have not read the Koran, only the nastier bits which you have found on Islamaphobic websites.

You have certainly not read either the Old nor New Testaments; just as much nastiness there.

Stuff which fundamental Christians use to persecute gays, people who believe in abortion etc., etc. in many countries.

Edited September 13, 2014 by 7by7

[Ulysses G.]

Here is an article from the Guardian newspaper about ISIS now recruiting through a network of British Mosques. It should be problematic for our resident self appointed chief of source police seeing as it's lib-left PC credentials are beyond reproach. I note from the article that the UK has a large Salafi community, as if we need any more problems.

http://www.theguardi...ork-and-mosques

Edited September 13, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[CMNightRider]

YES!!! Over the past several years in England the militants etc. have hidden behind the protection of the governments "politically correct" agenda. "Do not say anything to offend them", we are multicultural, why is it though that in their country there is no such thing as multicultural? well, it is too late, they have taken over I am sad to say.

p.s. It is a well known fact that by the year 2021 their will be enough muslims in the uk to vote in an islamic government....

Current Muslim population of all ages in the UK is around 5%, so how will their be sufficient numbers of eligable Muslim voters by 2021 to vote in an 'Islamic government'.

It has been estimated Muslims in the UK will grow to approx 10% of the population by 2050.

http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/factcheck-will-britain-have-a-muslim-majority-by-2050/13690

Between 2001, and 2011, the Muslim population in the UK, rose from About 1.5 million, to 2.7 million. That is an approximate increase of 3% to 4.8% of the overall population. The Muslims are not only flowing into the UK, but reproducing like rabbits. It appears the liberals in the UK, are reproducing at an alarming rate too which compounds the problem.

[jacky54]

Indeed, ignorance is part of the problem.

Try educating yourself, Jacky!

P.S.

I suspect that you have not read the Koran, only the nastier bits which you have found on Islamaphobic websites.

You have certainly not read either the Old nor New Testaments; just as much nastiness there.

Stuff which fundamental Christians use to persecute gays, people who believe in abortion etc., etc. in many countries.

Why do you suspect I have not read the Koran? first read it in 1973 and since then, it does not get any nicer with re reading and in my opinion is divisive, violent and preaches hatred towards other faiths gays and women. You keep on with the worn out what about the bible then, lets just compare the lives of Jesus and Mohamed then.

Jesus preached love and forgiveness, never married, preached blessed are the peacemakers and the meek shall inherit the earth. He raised the dead cured the blind and the leper, was not above accepting the poor, prostitutes and tax collectors. He taught turn the other cheek and that stealing and murder are sins.

Mohamed was a warlord who organised thieving raids and who oppressed other faiths when he got the upper hand. He married at least 11 times including a six year old and preached that women were worth less than a man and sanctioned sex with slaves and promised to rid Arabia of Jews and Christians. He dressed in woman's clothes and raped children.

Now I ask you can you really not see a difference and the different effect these two lives have had on the world? I think most on here can.

Edited September 13, 2014 by jacky54

[Richard W]

>>>> if Brit subjects longer than 3 years, have them be detained and charged with serious charges (aiding the enemy?).

That depends on whether the various groups can be described as the Queen's enemies - we aren't fighting them yet. We may be restricted to charging most of them with training for fighting governments, though there might be some evidence of training in cowing civilian populations.

They're more likely to simply be deported for being dual nationals, assuming they aren't able to get shot of the non-British nationality.

[Ulysses G.]

Jesus preached love and forgiveness, never married, preached blessed are the peacemakers and the meek shall inherit the earth. He raised the dead cured the blind and the leper was not above accepting the poor, prostitutes and tax collectors. He taught turn the other cheek and that stealing and murder are sins.

Mohamed was a warlord who organised thieving raids and who oppressed other faiths when he got the upper hand. He married at least 11 times including a six year old and preached that women were worth less than a man and sanctioned sex with slaves and promised to rid Arabia of Jews and Christians. He dressed in woman's clothes and raped children.

Now I ask you can you really not see a difference and the different effect these two lives have had on the world? I think most on here can.

I don't know a lot about the Koran, but this is the impression that I've gotten from what I have read about it. Any ideas on the justification for calling Islam, "the religion of peace"?

[7by7]

Jesus preached love and forgiveness, never married, preached blessed are the peacemakers and the meek shall inherit the earth.

It's a shame that in the last 2000 years so few of his followers have followed that!

Did you read the link to what the Catholic church and others have to say about homosexuals, based on what is said in the New Testament?

Not very forgiving!

[7by7]

The guardian article; read it and you will see that only very few mosques are involved.

[jacky54]

No comment on the different lives and examples set to followers by Jesus and Mohamed then, what a surprise, just more finger pointing by people in a glass house. As far as I know the Catholic Church does not declare that gays should be killed, those leaving the faith killed, unbelievers killed, adulterers killed and does not support child marriage, genital mutilation and the teaching that while Catholics are the best of people all that do not believe are the worst of people, as it does in the Koran referring to Muslims.

[Ulysses G.]

The guardian article; read it and you will see that only very few mosques are involved.

Please provide a quote from the article stating that that only very few mosques are involved. I don't see it.

[Credo]

Jesus preached love and forgiveness, never married, preached blessed are the peacemakers and the meek shall inherit the earth.

It's a shame that in the last 2000 years so few of his followers have followed that!

Did you read the link to what the Catholic church and others have to say about homosexuals, based on what is said in the New Testament?

Not very forgiving!

A lot of things are not very forgiving in Christianity, but it is not the duty of a Christian to kill those who do not abide by the religious tenants. It is left up to God to judge them.

[Ulysses G.]

Did you read the link to what the Catholic church and others have to say about homosexuals, based on what is said in the New Testament?

The Catholic Church opposes gay marriage, but teaches that homosexuals deserve respect, justice and pastoral care. I don't see anything wrong with that, even though I believe that most gay people have no choice over their sexuality and are born that way.

[arjunadawn]

WORLD WAR III

Regarding the catholic church, and tying it into "Does Britain have a jihadi problem," I offer this news link:

http://news.yahoo.com/pope-says-worlds-many-conflicts-amount-piecemeal-world-104917232.html

When you distill the majority of all conflict in the world today it is shockingly apparent that the majority of conflict is overwhelmingly islamic jihad conflict. When the Pope announces we are effectively in World War III already, this is the only meaning that can be inferred. All civilization is under attack, not just western. One of the reasons UK has actually had limited conflict to date is because UK aids political jihad (unwittingly) so significantly- UK like an Op Center for the Who's Who of jihad. According to the well sourced book, "Londonistan," many virulent jihadis look to UK for shelter.

[Ulysses G.]

Sounds like the Pope is as fed up with radical Islam as the rest of civilization are starting to be. .

Last month the pope, who has often condemned the concept of war in God's name, said it would be legitimate for the international community to use force to stop "unjust aggression" by Islamic State militants who have killed or displaced thousands of people in Iraq and Syria, many of them Christians.

http://news.yahoo.com/pope-says-worlds-many-conflicts-amount-piecemeal-world-104917232.html

[canuckamuck]

Indeed, ignorance is part of the problem.

Try educating yourself, Jacky!

P.S.

I suspect that you have not read the Koran, only the nastier bits which you have found on Islamaphobic websites.

You have certainly not read either the Old nor New Testaments; just as much nastiness there.

Stuff which fundamental Christians use to persecute gays, people who believe in abortion etc., etc. in many countries.

Please can you show me something from the New Testament that promotes violence.

[Mosha]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/jordan-horner-teenage-white-muslim-2051097 This crap has been going on in Dewsbury since the 80s

[transam]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/jordan-horner-teenage-white-muslim-2051097 This crap has been going on in Dewsbury since the 80s

Reminds me of the days when folk could not go to a footy match cos of ass holes. That was nothing to do with religion, it was to do with ass holes hiding in the wood work waiting to do their shit.

Just an excuse to try and be noticed cos they are a nobody. Strange thing is most look at these folk as planks, or plankton heads...........

[Mosha]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/jordan-horner-teenage-white-muslim-2051097 This crap has been going on in Dewsbury since the 80s

Reminds me of the days when folk could not go to a footy match cos of ass holes. That was nothing to do with religion, it was to do with ass holes hiding in the wood work waiting to do their shit.

Just an excuse to try and be noticed cos they are a nobody. Strange thing is most look at these folk as planks, or plankton heads...........

He's yet another convert. Seriously they should have to undergo a mental assessment before being allowed to convert.

[transam]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/jordan-horner-teenage-white-muslim-2051097 This crap has been going on in Dewsbury since the 80s

Reminds me of the days when folk could not go to a footy match cos of ass holes. That was nothing to do with religion, it was to do with ass holes hiding in the wood work waiting to do their shit.

Just an excuse to try and be noticed cos they are a nobody. Strange thing is most look at these folk as planks, or plankton heads...........

He's yet another convert. Seriously they should have to undergo a mental assessment before being allowed to convert.

Does make one wonder if these "sudden" converts just do it to perform violent acts that is hidden in their psyche, to me it looks like that....

[Ulysses G.]

He's yet another convert. Seriously they should have to undergo a mental assessment before being allowed to convert.

If the test turns out sane, they would be useless to the cause.

[Steely Dan]

The guardian article; read it and you will see that only very few mosques are involved.

According to an article I posted earlier in 2006 45% of UK Mosques had been infiltrated by the conservative (extreme) Diobandi sect, what with the UK contributing the second largest Western contingent fighting for IS I see the situation being worse rather than better. You can spin your tiny minority meme all you like, but you would have more joy gilding a dog turd - nobody believes you any more and few even pretend to.

[arjunadawn]

Indeed, ignorance is part of the problem.

Try educating yourself, Jacky!

P.S.

I suspect that you have not read the Koran, only the nastier bits which you have found on Islamaphobic websites.

You have certainly not read either the Old nor New Testaments; just as much nastiness there.

Stuff which fundamental Christians use to persecute gays, people who believe in abortion etc., etc. in many countries.

Please can you show me something from the New Testament that promotes violence.

I have studied these religious books. Yes, in context the koran has many sayings that apply to "current (then) events," rather than the quotes themselves being mandates to "you, muslim in the 21st century." If the koran was read this way your point would have some validity. Not only is it not historically read this way but Islamic exegesis is based on the universal view of the koran- in other words, what global (koran-wide) mandates or sayings are the final product of these "current events?" The koran is more than a book of stories and history. The koran is a mandate for every aspect of every life on earth.

Yes, there are these "current events" sayings for sure and when applied to the koran as a whole become stunningly obvious mandates for violence and war. In essence, they are not simply discussions about the then present, they are illustrations regarding the conduct of life and war. Also, there certainly are other, specific, injunctions for "you, the muslim in the 21st century" that is entirely violent, horrific, and required. So, the combination of "current events" passages and injunctions to war always, are contained in a book that overall, is translated into a blueprint for war until the dar al salam (House of Peace) is established. Until that time dar al harb (House of War) will be the order of the day. This condition of Islam toward universality is clearly divided into three distinct phases of jihad in the koran-

1) Tolerance 2) Defensive Warfare 3) Offensive Warfare.

The nascent islam was at first disliked locally and their powers were weak, thus tolerance. Later, after they migrated to Medina, the growing islamic cult was determined to defend itself but lacked the resources to actually go after their greatest threats to growth, Mecca. Once Mohammed amassed sufficient resources and personnel, he moved on Mecca in offensive war, and it was horrible. In these three phases read the mechanisms for migration and insurrection in all jihad lands. In this context, the quotes or passages that described "current events" would echo for millennia as required actions of followers. Mohammed is the "perfect man" and as such his life, his sayings, his deeds, and his intentions are to be extrapolated into personal and collective action until there are no longer any believers and the world has submitted to allah. Thus, the various ugly, horrific, barbaric acts are in no way limited in time to the 7th century. If a muslim tells you this they dissemble. The koran is the roadmap to the House of Peace.

You may find similar passages of god assigning a people such inhumane authorities to kill and destroy others in other religious scripture (note: its the same god). You may find horrific references to child burning in the valley of Hinom. You may find god even telling a man to kill his son. You will not find any such things in the new testament' there is no mandate like this; prior covenants with god, each dispensation, replaced the authority of the last. The Torah and related never authorized the subjugation of all other humans (in perpetuity) as a condition to a House of Zion. The Old Testament never reads like a blueprint for global domination (requires its application of all others and the tireless pursuit of the means to enforce this end).

There are oversights in your remarks that its not possible for you to link them. Other religious works, in time, repudiated their archaic mandates either by covenant or allowing such ideas to fade away. In any event, they were never intended to be required of all other humans and this is the single point. (Note: I think it is possible to go into various religious books and find appalling behaviors and injunctions that really do not seem repudiated. Yes, I agree that some could possibly be found, but the link in the chain attempted to connect this to islam breaks here.

The koran when emulated, is a blueprint for war).

[jacky54]

Excellent post but I fear it may be over the heads of the apologists, too many facts and big words. What the apologist can never excuse is the life and example of the prophet, this is essential in understanding the way Muslims look at the world and the unbeliever.They really do consider him the perfect man and yet his life was an horrific list of murder, oppression, sexual abuse, deception and conquest. It's as if Christians, who the apologists are so fond of bringing up, followed a man like the Roman Emperor Caligula.

[Johpa]

No one has denied there is a problem in the UK with fundamentalist Muslims.

No one has denied that a handful of mosques either promote this or allow others to use their premises to do so.

The problem lies not with 'fundamentalists' that's just a smoke screen, the problem lies with Islam itself, the Koran and the life of the Prophet, individual Muslims and groups however, you want to describe them are all the victims of it.

Do you understand how stupid your statements are, if the names of the religion are changed, no, I thought not!

The problem lies not with 'fundamentalists' that's just a smoke screen, the problem lies with Christianity itself, the Bible and the life of Jesus, individual Christians and groups however, you want to describe them are all the victims of it.

You are all getting to the crux of the problem, monotheism, the belief that there is but a single religious eschatology that is the correct view, and in order for that final judgement day to arrive all must be converted into believers. The only rational intellectual argument against Islam is to deny god, to look someone who cries "Allah akbar" and just laugh and say no, there is no god.

[chuckd]

No one has denied there is a problem in the UK with fundamentalist Muslims.

No one has denied that a handful of mosques either promote this or allow others to use their premises to do so.

The problem lies not with 'fundamentalists' that's just a smoke screen, the problem lies with Islam itself, the Koran and the life of the Prophet, individual Muslims and groups however, you want to describe them are all the victims of it.

Do you understand how stupid your statements are, if the names of the religion are changed, no, I thought not!

The problem lies not with 'fundamentalists' that's just a smoke screen, the problem lies with Christianity itself, the Bible and the life of Jesus, individual Christians and groups however, you want to describe them are all the victims of it.

You are all getting to the crux of the problem, monotheism, the belief that there is but a single religious eschatology that is the correct view, and in order for that final judgement day to arrive all must be converted into believers. The only rational intellectual argument against Islam is to deny god, to look someone who cries "Allah akbar" and just laugh and say no, there is no god.

The only rational intellectual argument against Islam is to deny god, to look someone who cries "Allah akbar" and just laugh and say no, there is no god.

And if you do that in the UK to an Islamic radical, you can be killed.

[7by7]

No comment on the different lives and examples set to followers by Jesus and Mohamed then, what a surprise, just more finger pointing by people in a glass house. As far as I know the Catholic Church does not declare that gays should be killed, those leaving the faith killed, unbelievers killed, adulterers killed and does not support child marriage, genital mutilation and the teaching that while Catholics are the best of people all that do not believe are the worst of people, as it does in the Koran referring to Muslims.

As I have said before, I have a life and a family and so am not a pathetic nerdish geek who spends all his waking hours glued to this forum waiting to reply to your posts.

I have shown you what the catholic church has to say about gays; I have quoted passages from both Old and New Testaments.

I have pointed out to you that the crimes you list are not restricted to Muslims.

But none of that suits your or your mates' agenda, so you either ignore it or dismiss it as lies.

Comments by you and others here show that you and they believe all Muslims are out to behead you, rape your children, establish a worldwide caliphate etc., etc.

Fortunately, the vast majority of Muslims have no desire to do any of that, and the vast majority of non Muslims do not share your ignorant prejudices.

I pity you and your mates; living with so much irrational hate inside you.

[metisdead]

A post spouting hatred has been removed as well as a reply.

[canuckamuck]

No comment on the different lives and examples set to followers by Jesus and Mohamed then, what a surprise, just more finger pointing by people in a glass house. As far as I know the Catholic Church does not declare that gays should be killed, those leaving the faith killed, unbelievers killed, adulterers killed and does not support child marriage, genital mutilation and the teaching that while Catholics are the best of people all that do not believe are the worst of people, as it does in the Koran referring to Muslims.

As I have said before, I have a life and a family and so am not a pathetic nerdish geek who spends all his waking hours glued to this forum waiting to reply to your posts.

I have shown you what the catholic church has to say about gays; I have quoted passages from both Old and New Testaments.

I have pointed out to you that the crimes you list are not restricted to Muslims.

But none of that suits your or your mates' agenda, so you either ignore it or dismiss it as lies.

Comments by you and others here show that you and they believe all Muslims are out to behead you, rape your children, establish a worldwide caliphate etc., etc.

Fortunately, the vast majority of Muslims have no desire to do any of that, and the vast majority of non Muslims do not share your ignorant prejudices.

I pity you and your mates; living with so much irrational hate inside you.

The majority of Muslims are not leading the way. The majority of Muslims are afraid to say anything at all against the Jihadists. The majority of Muslims are irrelevant because they are allowing the the violent side to disrupt the entire world and to wage war on anything that does not belong to their specific interpretation of the Koran.

You will of course come up with citations where Muslims have spoken out against violence and radicalism. Please also supply evidence where it made any difference at all. Please supply evidence that it was not just lip service (politics) to give them some relief from anti Islamic sentiment.

Please give evidence that the majority is willing to be a truly effective force against global insurgency. I will pay attention when I see Muslims willing to die to stop Jihad; like so many non Muslims will have to do soon, and have already done.

What does it matter at all if even 75% of the world's Muslims are against Jihad if they are too afraid to put themselves on the line to stop it? Do you think having a majority makes a different in Islamic circles? Or is it the Mullah that must be obeyed.

This is a religious war, it has already started. The soldiers are out there in every branch of civilization, it doesn't matter if there are a billion of them that aren't ever going to fight - there are another 700,000,000 that really really want to die for Allah. They want to die killing infidels. It is the only way they can be assured of heaven. They will probably kill you last though because you are very useful to their cause.

Edited September 13, 2014 by canuckamuck