Does Britain have a jihadi problem?

[jacky54]

Yeah but Charlie keeps interrupting him, I hate it when they do that, ohh I used the word hate!

Edited September 14, 2014 by jacky54

[Credo]

The Old Testament is filled with horrible crimes that God sanctions and even commands.

There is Genocide, including a divine order to kill women and children at Jericho. There is Fratricide where God commands followers of Moses to kill their own families.

There are commands to kill women who are unable to prove they are a virgin and homosexuals.

The prophets and 'heroes' of the Old Testament would be considered the same as Islamic fundamental jihadists today.

But surely Jesus with his message of peace changed all that?

Did he?

Matt 10:34

I did not come to bring peace to the earth; I did not come to bring peace but a sword

Matt 12:30

He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.

Matt 13:40-42

As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

John 3:36

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Luke 19:27

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

Those that have followed have used words such as these to justify their actions; particularly persecution of Jews.

Martin Luther:

First to set fire to their synagogues or schools and to bury and cover with dirt whatever will not burn, so that no man will ever again see a stone or cinder of them. This is to be done in honor of our Lord and of Christendom, so that God might see that we are Christians

There are still fundamental Christians who believe and act on this crap; especially in the US and sub Saharan Africa.

But as with the vast majority of Muslims and the Koran, the vast majority of Christians in the modern world do not take quotes like the above literally.

So basically, Jesus said some really bad things would happen to people. He did not command others to DO bad things to anyone. Justice would be given by God.

The Prophet, on the other hand, pretty much commanded those around him to rid the world of infidels. If you are going to follow the example of how Jesus lived his life and how Mohammad lived his life, which do you think would result in a better more peaceful world?

[chiang mai]

CM he is merely responding to diversionary tactics so your comments are taking his 'out of context'.

I imagine you were a petulant child, there, another word you can copy!

[jacky54]

CM he is merely responding to diversionary tactics so your comments are taking his 'out of context'.

I imagine you were a petulant child, there, another word you can copy!

Please stick to the topic instead of your preference for snide remarks.

[nontabury]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/11094852/British-hostage-David-Haines-beheaded-by-Islamic-State-terrorists.html

British hostage beheaded by Isis.

What a sad sad event for this man and his family. I can't wait for the SAS to get hold of the perpetrators.

Evil bastards

Only problem is....The Brits are so scared out of the shorts to do anything about things.

Meaning...?

I think the better word is, "complacency".

Very few folk know what the SAS is up too, what they are now doing. So his post is crap..

All the SAS I know are drinking beer in the pub down the street.

All I know is that the youth of Hereford are very polite in the pubs in town.

Not so, I used to be stationed at the same camp that now houses the SAS, when it was a RAF station.

[chiang mai]

CM he is merely responding to diversionary tactics so your comments are taking his 'out of context'.

I imagine you were a petulant child, there, another word you can copy!

Please stick to the topic instead of your preference for snide remarks.

The topic, or so it seems, has mutated into your inflexible intransigency, devoid of any compromise, so much so that you fail to understand when you have not been insulted.

[jacky54]

The topic, or so it seems, has mutated into your inflexible intransigency, devoid of any compromise, so much so that you fail to understand when you have not been insulted.

The topic is Jihadism in the UK, and not cheap point scoring, have you ever been there?. This is the sort of thing the thread is about

British jihadist medical student, 21, is pictured holding severed head while wearing her white doctor's jacket

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2755210/British-jihadist-medical-student-21-pictured-holding-severed-head-wearing-white-doctor-s-jacket.html

Edited September 14, 2014 by jacky54

[Richard W]

The Old Testament is filled with horrible crimes that God sanctions and even commands.

There is Genocide, including a divine order to kill women and children at Jericho. There is Fratricide where God commands followers of Moses to kill their own families.

There are commands to kill women who are unable to prove they are a virgin and homosexuals.

The prophets and 'heroes' of the Old Testament would be considered the same as Islamic fundamental jihadists today.

Although the Law given from God by Moses, as touching Ceremonies and Rites, do not bind Christian men, nor the Civil precepts thereof ought of necessity to be received in any commonwealth; yet notwithstanding, no Christian man whatsoever is free from the obedience of the Commandments which are called Moral.

Martin Luther:

First to set fire to their synagogues or schools and to bury and cover with dirt whatever will not burn, so that no man will ever again see a stone or cinder of them. This is to be done in honor of our Lord and of Christendom, so that God might see that we are Christians

Holy Scripture containeth all things necessary to salvation: so that whatsoever is not read therein, nor may be proved thereby, is not to be required of any man, that it should be believed as an article of the Faith, or be thought requisite or necessary to salvation.

[jacky54]

CM the hateful ideology is Islam and I am not a Muslim. So you are not from the UK and have little idea what has been going on there! As you only seem interested in an argument and point scoring, rather than a debate on the facts and history of Islam, which you appear to know very little about, I see little worth in responding to any more of your pointless wind up posts.

Edited September 14, 2014 by jacky54

[Albertosez]

The topic, or so it seems, has mutated into your inflexible intransigency, devoid of any compromise, so much so that you fail to understand when you have not been insulted.

The topic is Jihadism in the UK, and not cheap point scoring, have you ever been there?.

Yes, "on occasion", although you would already know that from having read all the posts in this thread rather than barking your hateful ideology, do you recall!]

EDIT: Actually, your question about where I come from and your absence of any recall regarding previous posts, confirms to be that you are simply spouting and not listening or reading, your agenda is to garner support for hatred of an entire religion. I propose that you are an activist and that you are using this forum for illegal purposes, you are simply trying to stir up racial or religious hatred, MODS!

CM- a difference of opinions and beliefs is what makes some Forums interesting - even educational - for some ( me included )!

However, do not try to get folk censored or banned because they have a different point of view or opinion - that is " gutter behavior."

Counter " posts " with alternative opinions or thoughts-by all means - .....but do not try to silence people- because IMO that would suggest that you, yourself, have run - out of a valid / constructive contribution !

[canuckamuck]

Give it a rest CM, maybe you will come up with something resembling an argument in the morning.

[chiang mai]

Dudes, chill with this, it's magical:

[boomerangutang]

I shouldn't get sucked in to this talk of religion. But if Christians took the Sodom and Gamorrah episode as a call to action, they'd burn Pattaya down. Oh wait, that would piss off a lot of Islamists who like to go there and get drunk and chase girls for hire. Uh Oh, now I really strayed off-topic.

[jacky54]

Mostly wise words from a former UK jihadist on the 'very serious problem' of jihadist in the UK

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_ROUz7PR8U

[Scott]

Off-topic, inflammatory posts and replies deleted. Please stay on topic.

This is the World News Section, by the way, so no need to be related to Thailand.

[Thorgal]

When did the jihadi problem started in the UK ?

[7by7]

I was asked what 'nasty' bits there were in the New Testament, I answer and am then accused of a diversionary tactic by the people who asked the question.

They obviously didn't like the answer.

No one has denied that there are Islamism terrorists and extremists; least of all the Muslim governments fighting them as we speak!

[Thai at Heart]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/11094852/British-hostage-David-Haines-beheaded-by-Islamic-State-terrorists.html

British hostage beheaded by Isis.

What a sad sad event for this man and his family. I can't wait for the SAS to get hold of the perpetrators.

Evil bastards

Only problem is....The Brits are so scared out of the shorts to do anything about things.

True, the whole UK establishment is clueless about the threat Islam poses, their response to ISIS jihadists from the UK was to issue them with meaningless anti social behaviour orders on their return to the UK.. When Lee Rigby had his head cut off on a London street Cameron went on TV and stated it had nothing to do with Islam, despite the killer being filmed at the scene with a knife still in his hands shouting that the Koran made him do it. But then from what I have seen Obama is an even worse apologist for Islam, I did post a vid of him commenting on it which was quite disturbing, according to Barak Islam is a religion of peace and tolerance, pity we don't see much evidence of that.

Cameron is in the press tonight stating directly, that IsIs are not Islamic, they are monsters.

Now last time I looked, it doesn't really matter what the victim labels the wrongdoer if the wrongdoer takes his own label.

Quite how Cameron is an expert of what constitutes Muslim and non Muslim is beyond me.

[7by7]

Hitler was a Catholic who justified much of his policy on Catholic teachings; particularly the anti Semitism which led to the Holocaust.

Was he a Catholic or a monster?

I believe he was no more a true Catholic than the jihadists are true Muslims.

[Thai at Heart]

Hitler was a Catholic who justified much of his policy on Catholic teachings; particularly the anti Semitism which led to the Holocaust.

Was he a Catholic or a monster?

I believe he was no more a true Catholic than the jihadists are true Muslims.

If someone is misguidedly carrying out crimes in the name of a religion or organisation it befalls the members of that religion to absolutely renounce these acts and also to prevent them if they can.

If someone is going around commuting crimes on behalf of the boy scouts it doesn't make any real difference if all the boy scouts do is say "he doesn't represent the boy scouts", if it is within their power to prevent him doing something and they do nothing.

If good Muslims are not willing to fight to protect their religion from misrepresentation through criminal acts, then someone will do it for them.

The fight lies inside the Muslim faith as much as with christianity or countries. These evil bastards must be stopped from their oppresive and disgusting actions.

Where can anyone justify killing an aid worker. How?

[simple1]

CM the hateful ideology is Islam and I am not a Muslim. So you are not from the UK and have little idea what has been going on there! As you only seem interested in an argument and point scoring, rather than a debate on the facts and history of Islam, which you appear to know very little about, I see little worth in responding to any more of your pointless wind up posts.

Sorry, but you are not debating Islam, rather just repeating your message that Islam is solely a religion of hate. Anyone who differs from your singualar view is shouted down by you and others or posting news items etc reporting acts of violence by the radicals. Why people keep posting these news items or videos of some person attacking Muslims/Islam I don't know, no one is disputing the existance of and the actions of Jihadists in the UK and elsewhere.

It is patently obvious that the 1.5+ billion Muslims do not all have the same attitudes or interpretations of Islam, a great deal of nonsence is spouted that they do. Yes there is a significant problem with the Islamic clerics who insist that the Koran is immutable and must only be interpreted literally; by them!. Strange that there so far there are 10,000+ hadiths that interpret the words of the Koran.

The greatest number of murders by Jihadists is Muslim on Muslim, why? 'cause of different interpretations of Islam by the clerics amongst the sects, tribal power plays etc, all in contradiction to one of the core teachings of Islam, don't kill fellow Muslims.

To this day, in all religions, 'clerics' sometimes do use the platform of faith to encourage suppression, acts of violence and so on; right now Islamic clerics are on top of the pile. There are people in the Islamic world who are putting forward arguments that interpretation of the Koran need to reflect current moral and ethical norms; it's a nascent movement, it does exist.

[canuckamuck]

I was asked what 'nasty' bits there were in the New Testament, I answer and am then accused of a diversionary tactic by the people who asked the question.

They obviously didn't like the answer.

No one has denied that there are Islamism terrorists and extremists; least of all the Muslim governments fighting them as we speak!

I asked you to show if the New Testament promoted violence and your response was so far off I didn't respond. But if you would like we can look at you the quotes you gave. My comments in blue

Matt 10:34

I did not come to bring peace to the earth; I did not come to bring peace but a sword

Jesus predicting His message will bring division as many will not receive it.

Matt 12:30

He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.

Jesus saying Those that reject him will be ultimately rejected

Matt 13:40-42

As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Jesus explaining about judgement at the end of the world

John 3:36

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Jesus Once again talking about people who reject God and that God will reject them

Luke 19:27

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

These are the words of a king in an allegorical parable about people who waste opportunities. The allegory refers to judgement

The other thing you added were some words of Martin Luther, which is not from the New Testament and I do not know the context or issue he was speaking about.

So all you could find about promoting violence in the New Testament was related to God's judgement at the end of the world.

You failed dramatically to make your point I wouldn't call it a diversionary tactic, just facile.

You would think that a guy (Jesus) from that part of the world, in that era, would have at least some violence in His ideology. But amazingly he was all about forgiveness and love. Not quite the same as the man from Mecca who by lifestyle and word is clearly the polar opposite. And the fruit of that tree is everywhere now.

You mention some Christians are using the Bible to promote hate and do harm. Well they are wrong and the Christian community is quite good at calling them on it, and distancing themselves from it. None of these wrong minded movements have any traction or are causing any global disruption.

Edited September 14, 2014 by canuckamuck

[Ulysses G.]

Hitler was a Catholic who justified much of his policy on Catholic teachings; particularly the anti Semitism which led to the Holocaust.

Was he a Catholic or a monster?

I believe he was no more a true Catholic than the jihadists are true Muslims.

This is one of your usual distortions of history. Hitler was born a Catholic, but his father was not a believer and Hitler stopped going to church when he became an adult. Most historians agree that Hitler was anti-Christian and Goebbels wrote in his diary that Hitler "hates Christianity, because it has crippled all that is noble in humanity." Shortly after assuming power in 1933, Hitler told Hermann Rauschnig that he intended "to stamp out Christianity root and branch." He used his supposed Christian beliefs to manipulate the public, but he was not a true believer.

The jihadists are the exact opposite. They have a literal belief in the Koran and do what it commands. The jihadists are true Muslims, whether one agrees with their methods, or not.

[boomerangutang]

No one has denied that there are Islamism terrorists and extremists; least of all the Muslim governments fighting them as we speak!

That's a big part of the problem. Muslim governments are wimping out about fighting the bad guys. ISIL is generating reams of bad publicity for Islam, and slaughtering Muslims but what are regional governments doing to dynamically counter ISIL? Very little. Syria is hamstrung. Jordan, Turkey, Egypt, Kuwait, Oman and Iran are cowering behind their walls. Iraq and the Kurds are doing something, but only because it's right in their face. the biggest do-nothings are the Saudis. They've got the most money, the slickest military, yet the best they can do is call out to Uncle Sam and say, "help! You must send your army to fight these bad guys!"

The main reason Saudis and all the rest of the wafflers aren't doing anything tangible: They're afraid of the image of pitting Muslim against Muslim. Cowards.

[chiang mai]

CM the hateful ideology is Islam and I am not a Muslim. So you are not from the UK and have little idea what has been going on there! As you only seem interested in an argument and point scoring, rather than a debate on the facts and history of Islam, which you appear to know very little about, I see little worth in responding to any more of your pointless wind up posts.

And neither am I, I'm UK born and raised.

[jacky54]

Hitler a Christian? oh dear next it will be Stalin was as he trained to be a priest before renouncing and that Mao was a Buddhist (what about them?) just because his mother was. In the defence of the indefensible pointing the finger, however weakly, elsewhere is about all apologists can do, anything rather than examine and admit what the real problem is

[mccw]

No one has denied that there are Islamism terrorists and extremists; least of all the Muslim governments fighting them as we speak!

That's a big part of the problem. Muslim governments are wimping out about fighting the bad guys. ISIL is generating reams of bad publicity for Islam, and slaughtering Muslims but what are regional governments doing to dynamically counter ISIL? Very little. Syria is hamstrung. Jordan, Turkey, Egypt, Kuwait, Oman and Iran are cowering behind their walls. Iraq and the Kurds are doing something, but only because it's right in their face. the biggest do-nothings are the Saudis. They've got the most money, the slickest military, yet the best they can do is call out to Uncle Sam and say, "help! You must send your army to fight these bad guys!"

The main reason Saudis and all the rest of the wafflers aren't doing anything tangible: They're afraid of the image of pitting Muslim against Muslim. Cowards.

Because also actually a lot of people in all the regional countries love what IS are doing. Thousands are fighting with them. Clerics preach the same kind of hate routinely. Saudi Arabia's whabism is an extremist form of Islam already in place and state structured. The only reason any of them are now doing even the tiniest bit is because the old elite, royals and generals, are worried about their own necks; which is partly why they don't do too much also- Incase their own population / influential clerics turns on then too.

Iran and Syria only real potential active players because Shia getting slaughtered by the Sunni IS; but tricky for west to join in with them while heatedly or even too publicly at all because contradicts the decades propaganda that Iran is bad guys number 1.

Saudi has always been more extremist than Iran. But they are US best mate haha. Shows the strategic realities of money/ oil been over any morals. Actually majority all these Muslims hate the west. Just a few pragmatists prepared to do biz with the west for theirs own local powers; but actually treading a tight rope of handing out material treats from the oil money and not looking like a west lover too much in public for need to keep a volatile hate filled population a bay.

[mccw]

I wouldn't be surprised to see more countries fall to IS. Muslim brotherhood joining them for example now they've been cracked down on in Egypt. Lucky Egypt's Al Sisi had a pluck at that root before too late. Tunisia suffering Islamist backed political assassinations trying to scupper/ take over it fledging democracy. Afganistan on the edge of falling back to the Taliban. Half of Africa seeing rising extremism by Muslims Coast to Coast.

Pakistan only holding together a last degree of civility due to it's own military effort actually against the likely majority will of it's people; it's facing insurgency both armed and political from extremists; and this is a nuclear armed country. Simple as a few turn coats in the armed forces joining to the extremists side and suddenly we have a nuclear armed caliphate which could soon subdue the last weak governments of Muslims in the region. Likely they'd declare allegiance rather than face the bombs.

Then the caliphate is across entire Muslim region. They would probably use the nukes on Iran and Syria. What would the west respond do you think? Nuke them; wait for them to nuke us?

Must be only a matter of time; invasion of Europe and eventual world wife is the stated ultimate aid,

Let's hope the powers that be done let it go so far. Weak few air strikes today; hmm will see; but the same and continued danger from extremists across the region doesn't go away even if IS is degraded in Iraq or Syria; something the same or worse could emerge in any of the Muslim lands. Arming one bunch against another is equally short sighted; when really they can be all seen as potential enemies.

What to do

[Scott]

An inflammatory post has been deleted. This topic is about a jihadi problem in Britain. Not all Muslims are the same. Continued inflammatory posting will earn a suspension.

Posts about using a nuclear bomb to solve the problem are nothing more than trolling.

If you have finished discussing the topic in a civil manner, I suggest you move on to another thread.

[mccw]

Example like Lybia. Compare to Syria. What idiots. Leaves a vacuums for militancy to fester and grow. Out of which we see in the likes of IS coming.

Maybe it's not so idiot. Perhapse the cunning plan has been years in the making. Deny them and strong state apparatus; no strong states to challenge the west; rather an endless scum of rival amatures killing each other for who can be caliph of various patches of desert. If any one comes a bit strong just bomb em. Let it continue.

Maybe this is better than we all must go to the trouble of conquering the Muslim lands and converting them.

God mind created the world. He gave free choice to man. Now; Mans mind creates their own hell; then projects it to the world. And behold what is today. The hell of the calif and other Muslim lands.

Behold ; The time of Saturn is upon the world.

Repent; judgement awaiteth all. But only a quick "sorry jesus" won't be enough; need to get busy to balance that karma.

A few Hail Mary s - just ain't gunna cut it.

(Mostly I am joking; with a bit serious)

Seriously; we all have choice every moment to train our minds and choose light over dark actions.

Seriously; I hope no one is drawn to darkness actions because hate is hate, darkness can spread across the peoples and religions; not just Muslim; so fighting the Muslim hate with equal hate only spreads the darkness. If can maintain love and compassion then all is not lost.

We can each try to do the best in our own lives by the principles of light; love; compassion; kindness.