Does Britain have a jihadi problem?

[jacky54]

Some similarities, indeed.

Including the fact that at present there is no discernible link to terrorism or jihadism!

But that both men are Muslims is enough for some.

SO if they are Muslims then and NOT terrorists or Jhadists, then they must be two of those 'moderates' you are always telling us about, next claim-they were both insane, well that goes without saying really.

[Albertosez]

7x7 - do you agree that free speech - as per the hate speech on the streets of UK is a good thing?

You ask if I agree; does that you mean you hold that view and are asking if I agree with you?

If so; no, I don't.

If you have poorly worded your question and are asking if I think hate speech, on the streets of the UK or anywhere else, is a good thing; no, I don't.

In an ideal world the right of freedom of speech would be absolute.

But we do not live in an ideal world; therefore this right, like many others, needs to be a qualified one.

Incitement of prejudice toward, hate of or violence toward anyone is wrong. In the UK we have laws against such incitement; whether those doing the inciting are Muslim clerics, white supremacists or anyone else.

Such laws will be necessary for as long as people exist who hate and preach violence against others because they have a different skin colour, different religious beliefs, different sexuality, different anything or for any other reason.

As my question to you was a direct reply to your earlier post in which you were discussing the rights of free speech, then the context of my question was already clear. On this very subject, if you dare to tune in and face the facts, there is a program being shown now on BBC World with Muslims exploiting their right to " free speech " - but their speeches are hate filled speeches on the streets of UK.

As you seem to understand the language, why don't you tune in now. You cannot even try to discredit the source of this program !

The context of your question was clear, but the way you worded it was not. Maybe you were trying to trap me into saying "Yes, I agree." If so; didn't work.

We do not get BBC World here in the UK; but the programme you refer to may have been shown at some time on one of the BBC channels here; if you tell me the name of it I will try and find it on BBC I player.

So I cannot yet comment on who said what in that programme.

(Edit: Now seen the link in Mosha's post, so will watch it over the week end. Obviously, until I do I cannot comment on the contents.)

But I stand by my reply above.

If the police and other authorities are not taking the appropriate action, this is wrong.

But, like in similar EDL and other demonstrations, to avoid the possibility of violent confrontation at the time, the police gather intelligence during the demonstration to act upon later.

Such intelligence gathering may very well have contributed to the recent arrests of Islamist activists.

I'm not trying to trap you in to anything but you guys have a good tactic of cutting and pasting only specific sentences from people's quotes and tabling that as the only thing that was said so that you can twist the context. What are you doing in UK - I thought you were based in Thailand ?

I would feel better if you was in Thailand TBH !

[Ulysses G.]

Two Muslims on a rampage behead people.

In both cases the police say there is no link to terrorism.

But to the prejudiced here; Muslim equals jihadist terrorist.

I repeat, such a link may come to light later; but unlike many here I judge on the evidence, not on my prejudices.

The Police have to say that though, we can't have Muslims being offended now can we. Two Muslims go on the rampage beheading people, now where on earth would they have got that motivation from using that method of killing, readers digest perhaps?

Bot the US and the UK seem to have decided not to call attacks by single Muslims, unaffiliated to an organization, "terrorism", even though ISIS and other Islamic terrorism groups have called on Muslims in the West to kill civilians in lone wolf operations planned and executed by a single person. Do they really think that they can fool the public with this madness?

"Do not ask for anyone's advice and do not seek anyone's verdict." "Kill the infidel, whether he is civilian or military."

Edited September 27, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[Mosha]

I posted this on FB

This morning I watched a BBC documentary. "My brother the Islamist". How the hell did we arrive at a point where a bunch of people can hurl insults at returning British soldiers and the police are protecting those <deleted> shouting "murderer" at our troops?

This was footage shot this year I believe.

[jacky54]

It's called freedom of speech Mosha, unless it's down with Islam or no more Mosques then it's hate speech and you get arrested!

[Albertosez]

I posted this on FB

This morning I watched a BBC documentary. "My brother the Islamist". How the hell did we arrive at a point where a bunch of people can hurl insults at returning British soldiers and the police are protecting those <deleted> shouting "murderer" at our troops?

This was footage shot this year I believe.

The same reason that we allowed a Muslim Group of Pakistanis toy rape and abuse over 1400 young children in a small town called Rotherham - Apologists in senior positions - that's how !

I tell you what I would do with them - not negotiable if you are seen to be anti - " free economy ticket to a country of your destination " - because your passport has just been revoked !

good by and good riddance - win / win situation !

[Albertosez]

That big lad - Richard on the documentary shown earlier - the best place he can be is either in Solitary Confinement or with his umpteen Virgins that he will meet - post death !

Anything else will prove far less attractive !

[Mosha]

It's called freedom of speech Mosha, unless it's down with Islam or no more Mosques then it's hate speech and you get arrested!

Well to misquote a quote. "With freedom of speech should comes responsibility

[jacky54]

can't get that film to play says it's withdrawn?

[jacky54]

It's called freedom of speech Mosha, unless it's down with Islam or no more Mosques then it's hate speech and you get arrested!

Well to misquote a quote. "With freedom of speech should comes responsibility

Equality also, certain groups allowed to call for murder on the streets while others have to remain silent for fear of arrest is not responsible, fair or condusive to a harmonious society. What is more irresponsible calling for the murder of British soldiers or calling for no more Mosques?

Edited September 27, 2014 by jacky54

[chuckd]

Some similarities, indeed.

Including the fact that at present there is no discernible link to terrorism or jihadism!

But that both men are Muslims is enough for some.

SO if they are Muslims then and NOT terrorists or Jhadists, then they must be two of those 'moderates' you are always telling us about, next claim-they were both insane, well that goes without saying really.

From today's Drudge Report...

1. OKLAHOMA BEHEADER LINKED TO AL QAEDA LEADER AWLAKI, BOSTON BOMBER'S MOSQUE

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2014/09/26/OKC-Killer-Linked-Through-Imam-to-Al-Qaeda-Leader-Awlaki

2. FBI investigating claims Oklahoma beheading suspect tried to convert co-workers to Islam

http://kfor.com/2014/09/25/reports-police-respond-to-possible-shooting-near-moore-grocery-store/

3. BREAKING: Beheading Suspect Fired After Argument Over Stoning Women

http://www.truthrevolt.org/news/breaking-beheading-suspect-alton-nolenjahkeem-yisrael-fired-after-argument-over-stoning-women

4. ‘SHARIA LAW IS COMING!!!!’ Oklahoma Beheader Celebrated Terrorists, Disparaged Non-Muslims On Facebook

http://dailycaller.com/2014/09/26/sharia-law-is-coming-oklahoma-beheader-celebrated-terrorists-disparaged-non-muslims-on-facebook/

To paraphrase an old saying...if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it ain't no canary.

[hawker9000]

Two Muslims on a rampage behead people.

In both cases the police say there is no link to terrorism.

But to the prejudiced here; Muslim equals jihadist terrorist.

I repeat, such a link may come to light later; but unlike many here I judge on the evidence, not on my prejudices.

OK. So, if not terrorism, and if not jihadism, what's YOUR explanation for the beheadings? This I gotta' hear. BTW, 'seen this latter guy's FB page? It's all over the news - you must be the last to know.

What the police and esp. federal LE say or don't say in the obamanation is as often politically driven, as it is factually driven. And it's obviously NOT PC to throw the word "terrorism" around. OR mention the muslim connection... Sensible people not on somebody's short leash can see quite clearly what's going on though, and don't depend on the police anymore to make statements that can be politically damaging or meet with bureaucratic disapproval, the glaring truth of the matter notwithstanding.

[Steely Dan]

Some similarities, indeed.

Including the fact that at present there is no discernible link to terrorism or jihadism!

But that both men are Muslims is enough for some.

SO if they are Muslims then and NOT terrorists or Jhadists, then they must be two of those 'moderates' you are always telling us about, next claim-they were both insane, well that goes without saying really.

From today's Drudge Report...

1. OKLAHOMA BEHEADER LINKED TO AL QAEDA LEADER AWLAKI, BOSTON BOMBER'S MOSQUE

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2014/09/26/OKC-Killer-Linked-Through-Imam-to-Al-Qaeda-Leader-Awlaki

2. FBI investigating claims Oklahoma beheading suspect tried to convert co-workers to Islam

http://kfor.com/2014/09/25/reports-police-respond-to-possible-shooting-near-moore-grocery-store/

3. BREAKING: Beheading Suspect Fired After Argument Over Stoning Women

http://www.truthrevolt.org/news/breaking-beheading-suspect-alton-nolenjahkeem-yisrael-fired-after-argument-over-stoning-women

4. ‘SHARIA LAW IS COMING!!!!’ Oklahoma Beheader Celebrated Terrorists, Disparaged Non-Muslims On Facebook

http://dailycaller.com/2014/09/26/sharia-law-is-coming-oklahoma-beheader-celebrated-terrorists-disparaged-non-muslims-on-facebook/

To paraphrase an old saying...if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it ain't no canary.

Well found, on the nail and passes the litmus test for a post-denial world. Sadly for some you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

[Steely Dan]

Thinking of Oklahoma, the Kuffar and the Muslim should be friends, territory folks should stick together etc. I'll work on the rest of the lyrics whilst feeding our hens.

[Mosha]

Anjerm Choufary out on bail.

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-29386983

[Scott]

Inflammatory post and reply deleted.

[7by7]

Some nested quotes removed to comply with forum software

I'm not trying to trap you (7by7) in to anything but you guys have a good tactic of cutting and pasting only specific sentences from people's quotes and tabling that as the only thing that was said so that you can twist the context.

That is certainly a favourite tactic of Ulysses G and jacky54!

If I cut quotes I usually, I wont say always as sometimes I forget, make it clear that I have done so, as above or by using <snip> if I want to reply to just a specific point in a long post.

What are you doing in UK - I thought you were based in Thailand ?

Nope, I live in the UK; unlike many of the other posters in this topic who garner most of their information about the UK from the right wing press and hate websites.

I would feel better if you was in Thailand TBH !

Why?

Not had time, yet, to watch that documentary, so cannot yet comment on it's contents; other than the general comments I made earlier.

The programme is no longer available in Mosha's link because, as it says, it breached the BBC's copyright, and a search for it on BBC I Player says it is no longer available.

Not unusual; programmes usually only stay on there for 7 days after they were shown in the UK.

Might be on YouTube, but might not be for the same copyright reasons as above.

(Edited for spelling)

Edited September 28, 2014 by 7by7

[7by7]

As more details about Nolan emerge, it appears that his actions were motivated by his extremist beliefs.

No such details have emerged about Salvador.

Edit: Just seen a post asking for my explanation of Salvador's actions. Already gone into in great detail in the topic about this murder; but all the evidence from his flatmates and witnesses points to him being in a drink or drug fuelled rage after getting into an argument with his flatmates over a lighter. Nothing to suggest he was a jihadist; anywhere.

But the mates here will still say "Both Muslims, both beheaded their victims, one is a jihadist, so the other one must be!"

The mates are, after all, not interested in the whole truth; just the parts which suits their belief that all Muslims are awaiting the chance to overthrow democracy and impose a worldwide caliphate governed by Sharia law.

So anything which they can use to 'prove' this rubbish is trumpeted; facts which show it to be the rubbish it is are ignored.

There is a problem with Muslim extremists; both in the UK and elsewhere. I have never denied that; neither has any other contributor to this topic.

But, as has been said again and again, demonising the majority of Muslims due to the actions of a minority, and in the UK it is a tiny minority, will only drive more people into the arms of the extremists.

Is that what you want?

Edited September 28, 2014 by 7by7

[jacky54]

As more details about Nolan emerge, it appears that his actions were motivated by his extremist beliefs.

Those beliefs being Islamic, still crying off posting those links you claimed to have posted here about your ideas to combat it? a few have had a look and could not see any at all!

[7by7]

The ball is in your court.

Man up, or shut up.

[jacky54]

The ball is in your court.

Man up, or shut up.

No it's always been in yours straw man, you claimed to have posted ideas to combat jihad then when called on it first cried about being too busy, then fabricated a need for people to answer your questions before you would prove something that is not possible, you are a fraud.

Edited September 28, 2014 by jacky54

[Albertosez]

As more details about Nolan emerge, it appears that his actions were motivated by his extremist beliefs.

No such details have emerged about Salvador.

Edit: Just seen a post asking for my explanation of Salvador's actions. Already gone into in great detail in the topic about this murder; but all the evidence from his flatmates and witnesses points to him being in a drink or drug fuelled rage after getting into an argument with his flatmates over a lighter. Nothing to suggest he was a jihadist; anywhere.

But the mates here will still say "Both Muslims, both beheaded their victims, one is a jihadist, so the other one must be!"

The mates are, after all, not interested in the whole truth; just the parts which suits their belief that all Muslims are awaiting the chance to overthrow democracy and impose a worldwide caliphate governed by Sharia law.

So anything which they can use to 'prove' this rubbish is trumpeted; facts which show it to be the rubbish it is are ignored.

There is a problem with Muslim extremists; both in the UK and elsewhere. I have never denied that; neither has any other contributor to this topic.

But, as has been said again and again, demonising the majority of Muslims due to the actions of a minority, and in the UK it is a tiny minority, will only drive more people into the arms of the extremists.

Is that what you want?

I know quite a few Muslims and whilst I won't class them as friends ( I class very few people as friends - maybe 5 people maximum ), I would say they are ok people - from what I know about them. However, the Radical Muslims are as much your problem ( The Moderate Muslim Community ) as they are our problem. Why don't you guys " sort them out " and then we won't have to. I am trying to keep this short and to the point - hence it may seem brash- but if you cleaned up your own back yard then maybe there wouldn't be such a growing anti - Muslim feeling!

Stop feeling sorry for yourselves and either join up with the radicals and be there to be shot at, or get them sorted out yourselves and maybe come out of that situation with significant credibility. We hear some words - but they are mainly empty words...... and the UK people are getting fed up of it. Once the English people turn against you they will make your lives very, very uncomfortable to stay there !

[Albertosez]

Some nested quotes removed to comply with forum software

I'm not trying to trap you (7by7) in to anything but you guys have a good tactic of cutting and pasting only specific sentences from people's quotes and tabling that as the only thing that was said so that you can twist the context.

That is certainly a favourite tactic of Ulysses G and jacky54!

If I cut quotes I usually, I wont say always as sometimes I forget, make it clear that I have done so, as above or by using <snip> if I want to reply to just a specific point in a long post.

What are you doing in UK - I thought you were based in Thailand ?

Nope, I live in the UK; unlike many of the other posters in this topic who garner most of their information about the UK from the right wing press and hate websites.

I would feel better if you was in Thailand TBH !

Why?

Not had time, yet, to watch that documentary, so cannot yet comment on it's contents; other than the general comments I made earlier.

The programme is no longer available in Mosha's link because, as it says, it breached the BBC's copyright, and a search for it on BBC I Player says it is no longer available.

Not unusual; programmes usually only stay on there for 7 days after they were shown in the UK.

Might be on YouTube, but might not be for the same copyright reasons as above.

(Edited for spelling)

So what is your connection with Thailand and why would you be posting on TV if you live in UK? Where do you live in UK ?

[jacky54]

He will ask you to answer an obscure question before answering!

[Mosha]

By brother the jihadist - keep an eye on BBC3 schedules

www.robbleech.com

There were moments of real shock and hurt, such as when Rich told me he wouldn't shake my hand because I was a "dirty kafir [unbeliever]"

Edited September 28, 2014 by Mosha

[7by7]

Some nested quotes removed to comply with forum software

So what is your (7by7) connection with Thailand and why would you be posting on TV if you live in UK? Where do you live in UK ?

My connection to Thailand is that I am married to a Thai.

Why do I post on TV? For the main reason have a look at the Visa and migration to other countries forum; that's where I spend most of my time here.

I was unaware that only those resident in Thailand could post on TV; can you point me to the relevant forum rule?

I live in a town with a high Muslim population. Though not a Muslim myself, I see, mix with, work with and talk to British Muslims every day.

So I think it is fair to say that I have more knowledge of what the average British Muslim thinks than people perched 6000 miles away reading Islamaphobic websites!

He will ask you to answer an obscure question before answering!

Wrong; but you don't have the answer to a simple, not at all obscure but very relevant question.

As I said right from the beginning; answer that question and then I will answer yours.

But, as is usual with you and your mates, when you can't answer a question you twist things to try and make the questioner look bad.

You are fooling no one; not even your mates.

Edited September 28, 2014 by 7by7

[transam]

Some nested quotes removed to comply with forum software

So what is your (7by7) connection with Thailand and why would you be posting on TV if you live in UK? Where do you live in UK ?

My connection to Thailand is that I am married to a Thai.

Why do I post on TV? For the main reason have a look at the Visa and migration to other countries forum; that's where I spend most of my time here.

I was unaware that only those resident in Thailand could post on TV; can you point me to the relevant forum rule?

I live in a town with a high Muslim population. Though not a Muslim myself, I see, mix with, work with and talk to British Muslims every day.

So I think it is fair to say that I have more knowledge of what the average British Muslim thinks than people perched 6000 miles away reading Islamaphobic websites!

He will ask you to answer an obscure question before answering!

Wrong; but you don't have the answer to a simple, not at all obscure but very relevant question.

As I said right from the beginning; answer that question and then I will answer yours.

But, as is usual with you and your mates, when you can't answer a question you twist things to try and make the questioner look bad.

You are fooling no one; not even your mates.

Is your Thai wife a Muslim...?

[Ulysses G.]

You are fooling no one; not even your mates.

Neither are you.

[Albertosez]

Some nested quotes removed to comply with forum software

So what is your (7by7) connection with Thailand and why would you be posting on TV if you live in UK? Where do you live in UK ?

My connection to Thailand is that I am married to a Thai.

Why do I post on TV? For the main reason have a look at the Visa and migration to other countries forum; that's where I spend most of my time here.

I was unaware that only those resident in Thailand could post on TV; can you point me to the relevant forum rule?

I live in a town with a high Muslim population. Though not a Muslim myself, I see, mix with, work with and talk to British Muslims every day.

So I think it is fair to say that I have more knowledge of what the average British Muslim thinks than people perched 6000 miles away reading Islamaphobic websites!

He will ask you to answer an obscure question before answering!

Wrong; but you don't have the answer to a simple, not at all obscure but very relevant question.

As I said right from the beginning; answer that question and then I will answer yours.

But, as is usual with you and your mates, when you can't answer a question you twist things to try and make the questioner look bad.

You are fooling no one; not even your mates.

The plot thickens !

Hey - I'm glad you are posting here - I am only asking you why, not trying to discourage you from doing so ! I think your contribution is actually quite good - but I certainly don't agree with a lot of what you say - but that is what Forums are ( sometimes ) interesting !

What is more interesting is that you say you are not a Muslim, yet your defense of Islam is astounding - but hey - credit to you for your stance !

I hope your wife is settling well in England - genuinely - I do. However, there must be a link to Islam for you to be so vociferous in your defense of it. Is your Thai Wife a Muslim - I ask only out of interest. My guess is that you either living in Bradford, Luton or Birmingham ?

[Albertosez]

7/7 - what is your race and ethnicity - please ?