does the fuse box need an earth...quick answer please

[hugh2121]

thanks guys....this is my g/f parents house which has had a safety cut box fitted and a ground rod attached to both the washing machine and shower.....I am not going to have the whole house rewired to ground each socket but wanted to know how safe it is with a set up like this

It's not safe at all. Why do you think the UK, EU, USA etc. ALL fit 3 pin sockets with earth wires to all of them? They are absolutely essential for safety. Oh, there's no problem leaving them out as long as no faults develop but when one does it could be fatal.

Your choice but in UK it would be ILLEGAL.

[Crossy]

thanks guys....this is my g/f parents house which has had a safety cut box fitted and a ground rod attached to both the washing machine and shower.....I am not going to have the whole house rewired to ground each socket but wanted to know how safe it is with a set up like this

It's not safe at all. Why do you think the UK, EU, USA etc. ALL fit 3 pin sockets with earth wires to all of them? They are absolutely essential for safety. Oh, there's no problem leaving them out as long as no faults develop but when one does it could be fatal.

Your choice but in UK it would be ILLEGAL.

Actually, provided he only uses Class-2 appliances in the 2 pin outlets it's perfectly safe (think UK appliances with 2 core flex), they don't need a ground to be safe. If you think about it, the vast majority of domestic appliances are now Class-2, the exceptions mostly live in the kitchen (except desktop computers).

Of course one can guarantee that someone will want to plug a Class-1 appliance into one of the ungrounded outlets.

What would be extremely unwise would be to fit 3-pin outlets and then not connect the ground pin.

[jcisco]

The Neutral cannot and must not be connect to grounding rod (grounding rod)

Neutral is a return path for volt / live through connecting appliances, this return is to make a complete circuit

if you connect neutral to grounding rod…….the result will be volt which is 230V becoming 115V

This region is 230V and 115V is seriously under volt. or Volt shorted to ground. …...

\

You do not know what you are talking about, please do not spread such information.

[Crossy]

The Neutral cannot and must not be connect to grounding rod (grounding rod)

Neutral is a return path for volt / live through connecting appliances, this return is to make a complete circuit

if you connect neutral to grounding rod…….the result will be volt which is 230V becoming 115V

This region is 230V and 115V is seriously under volt. or Volt shorted to ground. …...

You do not know what you are talking about, please do not spread such information.

I wouldn't be so harsh on searayman.

He's likely from North America where (sadly for them) the electrical system is a weird hybrid of 110 and 220V. Without the knowledge that the rest of the universe does it differently he is worried that what we say is incorrect.

[jcisco]

The Neutral cannot and must not be connect to grounding rod (grounding rod)

Neutral is a return path for volt / live through connecting appliances, this return is to make a complete circuit

if you connect neutral to grounding rod…….the result will be volt which is 230V becoming 115V

This region is 230V and 115V is seriously under volt. or Volt shorted to ground. …...

You do not know what you are talking about, please do not spread such information.

I wouldn't be so harsh on searayman.

He's likely from North America where (sadly for them) the electrical system is a weird hybrid of 110 and 220V. Without the knowledge that the rest of the universe does it differently he is worried that what we say is incorrect.

Oh you are right, I think I am guilty of the same in my response, just in reverse. Forgot about americans.

[bankruatsteve]

Well.... in the states, the neutral would be bonded to ground - where ground is usually not connected to ground rod but rather to the copper water piping. It varies of course. But, the 120v system used in the states would just not work if neutral was not bonded to ground at the CU and transformer.

BTW: in the states 120/240 is the "normal" consumer voltage these days.

[Crossy]

Well.... in the states, the neutral would be bonded to ground - where ground is usually not connected to ground rod but rather to the copper water piping. It varies of course. But, the 120v system used in the states would just not work if neutral was not bonded to ground at the CU and transformer.

BTW: in the states 120/240 is the "normal" consumer voltage these days.

Thing is, if you had a US home with only 220V (but connected with a grounded center tap at the Tx) then what searayman said could well be true (although I'd expect the service fuse to open).

It doesn't really matter, several people (myself included) have noted that (for Thailand) his assertion is incorrect.

[thordewar]

Hi I am a electrician however correct me if I am wrong my fellow electrician friends.

I believe in the 2 pin system I think it is brilliant.

Having earth 3rd pin gives you a high greater chance to be electrocuted.

Stick with your 2 pin mate, this is the system that is run in America it's great less chance to get hurt.

Let me lay down like this with how shady and shonky the electrical work here is done by the locals it is best to reduce your chance of electrocution and forget about the earth ok. No earth no shock if you have earth and you touch a live source and your body is in contact with earth your DEAD

Edited September 21, 2014 by thordewar

[Forkinhades]

Please read the pinned thread

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?/topic/693630-How-to-make-your-Thai-Electrical-system-safe

[Crossy]

Hi I am a electrician however correct me if I am wrong my fellow electrician friends.

I believe in the 2 pin system I think it is brilliant.

Having earth 3rd pin gives you a high greater chance to be electrocuted.

Stick with your 2 pin mate, this is the system that is run in America it's great less chance to get hurt.

Let me lay down like this with how shady and shonky the electrical work here is done by the locals it is best to reduce your chance of electrocution and forget about the earth ok. No earth no shock if you have earth and you touch a live source and your body is in contact with earth your DEAD

Please explain (use technical jargon if you like) how to safely connect a Class-1 appliance (think washing machine, microwave, desktop PC) to a 2-pin outlet, address only safety, don't worry about the need for 'functional earths'.

You should link to any technical literature you quote (or just detail clause numbers we can access pretty well any global standard).

[bankruatsteve]

2-pin is "the system that is run in America"??? Could be a 100 year old farm does that but otherwise: I don't think so.

[xtrnuno41]

This device will shut off in case there is a differential between live and neutral.

If the differential is 30 ma between live and neutral, it means you have a leakage to earth

I don't know if one is to buy in Thailand, otherwise you could import it.

The first designation (40 A) is the max total off ampere to be run through the device. The second designation (003= 30 ma) is the differential current measured value between live and neutral. Of course the power is 220 volts. 30 ma you will feel if something is wrong, but it is limited to that and "safe". All still depends on your own constitution of your body. Wether you touch it with left hand (close to the heart) and how salty your body is and ofcourse the condition of your heart.

But never the less it is the best protection

[Crossy]

RCDs and RCBOs are available in Thailand, all the big name DIY outlets carry them for DIN mount or as front-end add-ons (Safe-T-Cut).

Plug-in (Square-D) format were difficult to come by but are now becoming available.

It is important to note that the RCD does not limit the current to 30mA, it just detects if it is greater than that and opens the circuit in a time hopefully short enough to prevent death.

[jcisco]

RCDs and RCBOs are available in Thailand, all the big name DIY outlets carry them for DIN mount or as front-end add-ons (Safe-T-Cut).

Plug-in (Square-D) format were difficult to come by but are now becoming available.

It is important to note that the RCD does not limit the current to 30mA, it just detects if it is greater than that and opens the circuit in a time hopefully short enough to prevent death.

Hey crossy if you are familiar with the laws or regulations here, do cut offs in both leak and fault condition require hot and neutral to be popped or just hot. Sorry thread jacking cause I'm being lazy to find out for myself.

Pants the Great Wall

[Crossy]

Hey crossy if you are familiar with the laws or regulations here, do cut offs in both leak and fault condition require hot and neutral to be popped or just hot. Sorry thread jacking cause I'm being lazy to find out for myself.

Pants the Great Wall

The illustrations in the PEA "Groundwire" document show double pole incomers (MCB and RCD) with single width MCBs which open only the hot for individual circuits.

All the double width RCBOs I've seen here open both hot and neutral (so good for incomers), the single width ones intended to protect individual circuits open only the hot (they have a solid neutral).