Extremly Important Warning for Foreigners Coming/New To Thailand

[Gringogazzer]

OP:

What is the situation you got yourself into which scared you bad enough to want to warn all new comers to the land?

You skirted around it a lot in your posts but wouldn't say.

Did it invole a ladyboy or something you'd like not to mention???

[manxcay]

OP:

What is the situation you got yourself into which scared you bad enough to want to warn all new comers to the land?

You skirted around it a lot in your posts but wouldn't say.

Did it invole a ladyboy or something you'd like not to mention???

It was 10 years ago, I went out to a bar in a town outside of BKK because I was working in the town there. It was one of those roadside shack things.

The bar owner kept on trying to overcharge me but I refused, not in a rude or aggressive way at all.

When it was time to leave the guy gave me the finger, and I had a had a few drinks by then so I gave him the finger back then he pushed me, so I gave him a "wai" because that's how I thought best to diffuse the situation.

I would have just paid the few extra Baht and left if I was more educated about Thai culture or probably not even gone in there in the first place.

I keep on reading news stories from ThaiVisa about Farangs getting brutally killed cuz they upset a Thai, which got me thinking that could have very well been me.

So I decided to do something to maybe prevent stuff like this from happening.

[manxcay]

OP:

What is the situation you got yourself into which scared you bad enough to want to warn all new comers to the land?

You skirted around it a lot in your posts but wouldn't say.

Did it invole a ladyboy or something you'd like not to mention???

It was 10 years ago, I went out to a bar in a town outside of BKK because I was working in the town there. It was one of those roadside shack things.

The bar owner kept on trying to overcharge me but I refused, not in a rude or aggressive way at all.

When it was time to leave the guy gave me the finger, and I had a had a few drinks by then so I stupidly gave him the finger back then he pushed me, so I gave him a "wai" because that's how I thought best to diffuse the situation.

I would have just paid the few extra Baht and left if I was more educated about Thai culture or probably not even gone in there in the first place.

I keep on reading news stories from ThaiVisa about Farangs getting brutally killed cuz they upset a Thai, which got me thinking that could have very well been me.

So I decided to do something to maybe prevent stuff like this from happening.

[balo]

Another troll

[Gringogazzer]

Should of just included that story in your OP.

Think everyone could agree the wrong way to conduct yourself or handle the situation, but would of ended the same or much worse in many a country.

I've had moments in Thailand but resulted no more than them speaking bad to me in Thai.

I ignored them and that was that, done, finished.

[JAFO]

OP:

What is the situation you got yourself into which scared you bad enough to want to warn all new comers to the land?

You skirted around it a lot in your posts but wouldn't say.

Did it invole a ladyboy or something you'd like not to mention???

It was 10 years ago, I went out to a bar in a town outside of BKK because I was working in the town there. It was one of those roadside shack things.

The bar owner kept on trying to overcharge me but I refused, not in a rude or aggressive way at all.

When it was time to leave the guy gave me the finger, and I had a had a few drinks by then so I gave him the finger back then he pushed me, so I gave him a "wai" because that's how I thought best to diffuse the situation.

I would have just paid the few extra Baht and left if I was more educated about Thai culture or probably not even gone in there in the first place.

I keep on reading news stories from ThaiVisa about Farangs getting brutally killed cuz they upset a Thai, which got me thinking that could have very well been me.

So I decided to do something to maybe prevent stuff like this from happening.

^ @OP What have you really done to prevent anything? I mean come on For "F" Sake. Your posts could apply to anywhere in the world and any bar and any location. Its basic <deleted> common sense. You come across like your post will stop people and save them. This is not a Thai thing. Its silly. And along with that people link some news clips of events in Thailand against Farangs. I could fill up a page of stuff like that here on things that happen in the US every day. Do you see me writing to warn people that Americans are savages and will kill you if you get drunk in a bar in the ghetto calling people losers and flipping them off

If I get this right 10 years ago you went to a bar, you got drunk, you lipped off to the owner who lipped off to you, you exchanged words and you are just like all the other clowns that get drunk in a bar and do something stupid. Its Threads like these that just make me laugh.

Next Thread please.

[ukrules]

OP:

What is the situation you got yourself into which scared you bad enough to want to warn all new comers to the land?

You skirted around it a lot in your posts but wouldn't say.

Did it invole a ladyboy or something you'd like not to mention???

It was 10 years ago, I went out to a bar in a town outside of BKK because I was working in the town there. It was one of those roadside shack things.

The bar owner kept on trying to overcharge me but I refused, not in a rude or aggressive way at all.

When it was time to leave the guy gave me the finger, and I had a had a few drinks by then so I gave him the finger back then he pushed me, so I gave him a "wai" because that's how I thought best to diffuse the situation.

I would have just paid the few extra Baht and left if I was more educated about Thai culture or probably not even gone in there in the first place.

I keep on reading news stories from ThaiVisa about Farangs getting brutally killed cuz they upset a Thai, which got me thinking that could have very well been me.

So I decided to do something to maybe prevent stuff like this from happening.

Someone shoved a gun in my face once while I was out drinking and threatened to shoot me over a minor irritation which I caused.

It turned out that it wasn't loaded and the situation calmed down when they realised I was just a bit drunk due to the liquor shots that kept piling up - this was a considerable amount of time ago.

I've been back to the same place without incident many times since. It was explained that the gun was on the premesis because they'd had recent problems with some well known and occasionally extremely violent foreign criminals and in truth I don't blame them for having it - I know who these people are and they're nasty pieces of work.

The lesson is - don't cause trouble.

[Kitsune]

I think the whole 'face' thing is overrated and over estimated and misunderstood.

No one likes to be made to look stupid but westerners are mature enough to accept when they are wrong and understand that its part of life...Asians and Thais in particular just don't have that same level of maturity (in the same way that Children may not)...that is pretty much it....

Tarring an entire continent of four and a half billion people with the same brush is a sure sign of maturity.

T

Face has nothing to do with Asia.

Take 16th century Europe, face was called "honor" and was as huge, people would fight and lose life over things like calling someone arrogant in public.

It has to do with being mature, keeping things into proportions and remaining calm.

Thailand by many aspects is not a mature country, and as foreigners we should encourage them to grow, not to stay in dark ages where a glance could get you killed

Edited September 1, 2014 by Kitsune

[AYJAYDEE]

I think the whole 'face' thing is overrated and over estimated and misunderstood.

No one likes to be made to look stupid but westerners are mature enough to accept when they are wrong and understand that its part of life...Asians and Thais in particular just don't have that same level of maturity (in the same way that Children may not)...that is pretty much it....

Tarring an entire continent of four and a half billion people with the same brush is a sure sign of maturity.

T

Face has nothing to do with Asia.

Take 16th century Europe, face was called "honor" and was as huge, people would fight and lose life over things like calling someone arrogant in public.

It has to do with being mature, keeping things into proportions and remaining calm.

Thailand by many aspects is not a mature country, and as foreigners we should encourage them to grow, not to stay in dark ages where a glance could get you killed

Oh, the white man's burden! what a load to carry!

[SoiBiker]

Extremly important warning for foreigners coming to thailand!

Sometimes the food can be quite spicy.

[culicine]

I agree with most of what you have written but not all of it. A friend of mine a few years ago used to tell me some stories about bars he had been into around our small town and tell me about how he was abused or almost assaulted. A few days later I went to the same bars and ordered what I wanted to drink in broken Thai. Never did I have a problem in any of these places and even when they did make a mistake with the bill I just showed them the mistake and made a joke about it. The waitress altered the bill and all was good. I think sometimes bad luck follows certain people if they are unlucky or just push the wrong people. I have been here so far for 10 years and never have I had a problem.

Behave like a tawat and you will be treated like one.

I drink in mainly Thai bars and dont have the problems asociated with farang bars where the ex CIA, Black Ops, Spooks, SAS, SBS, Boy Scouts and Sally Army brigade always think they are up for one last shot at the farang Heavy Weight Championship of the world.

Theres at least one bar on Soi LK Pattaya I could name, but wont, best avoided.

The Thais will usually give the offender at least three chances before they pummel the shit out of him, first off they ignore the remark, then they laugh it off, then they tell him he is drunk go home, after that, well som nam na.

I have been here for a similair amount of time, never had a problem

Let's just be clear here - Thais never (or rarely) first one-on-one. Try 20 of his mates too. If you get into a fight, you need to get out of there quickly afterwards, and never to be seen again.

[khunpa]

Thanks so much for this advice, OP… However let me tell you a little secret.

At some point, you will discover that Thai-people are just like all other people in this world. All you need to do, to live here happily, is common sense and the ability to show other people respect. Same as you would anywhere else in the world.

The tendency to always make Thai-people and Thai-culture to something specially interesting, different or mysterious is the biggest mistake Farangs do here. They come to this part of the world and think people are totally different, which they basically are not.

Of course they have a different culture, traditions, religion etc. But deep down, they are just like other people in this world. They know right from wrong and they require respect, to also show respect to another person. But that does not mean that we as Farangs must be scared or constantly on guard, not to personally offend them. In fact Thai-people are very forgiving, openminded and understanding towards other cultures. That is also why they are so successful in tourism.

I have lived most of my life abroad and in may different parts of the world. The main thing I have learn is to show respect, use common sense - but also (and most important) never lose your own culture and way of thinking.

The biggest mistake Farangs do when coming here, is believing they have to 100% adapt to Thai-culture and have to over-analyse everything that is Thai. By doing that, Thai-people will only take advantage of you and end up disrespecting your culture and traditions.

Yes, there are of course things here that you must accept and rules you must apply to, if you want to avoid disrespecting Thai-people. But that goes for any country in the world. But when it comes to the people themselves, you will find out that you get much more respect as a foreigner here, if you in a good way show them that you can also “lose face” and require their respect.

It is not that hard and does not require much thought. For sure, this is not a difficult country to adapt in. And If you think it is dangerous, then it is because you are hanging out with the wrong people here.

The only "dangerous" thing here, is being naive and thinking Thai-people are something special. Well, they are not. They are just people! - Good and Bad.

Edited September 1, 2014 by khunpa

[Thakkar]

I think the OP has basicly plagiarized a Jim Croce song, with a minor change:

And you don't tug on superman's cape

You don't spit into the wind

You don't pull the mask off that old lone ranger

And you don't mess around with Somchai slim.

T

*with apologies to the late great Jim Croce

[Gecko123]

(edited for brevity)

The only "dangerous" thing here, is being naive and thinking Thai-people are something special. Well, they are not. They are just people! - Good and Bad.

I agree with much of what you said in your well-written post. The only thing I feel somewhat uneasy about is the idea that Thai culture is nothing special. By no stretch of the imagination can I say I've travelled to every corner of the world, but I happen to think Thailand is something special.

I wholeheartedly agree that it serves no purpose to be constantly on guard or live in constant fear of offending people. While there are no doubt people out there who could stand to loosen up a bit, there's also plenty of people out there who seem oblivious to how special Thai culture is, and who could stand to work on their cultural awareness and sensitivity. I'm just worried that your post is sending this latter group the wrong message.

Edited September 1, 2014 by Gecko123

[JLCrab]

(From somewhere above) The way to survive in Thailand is to use common sense. Thanks. I'll have to remember that one and try harder.

[mynameisphil]

OP, thank you very much for your advice.

I was just about getting ready to go to Thailand, but after reading your post, first thing tomorrow morning I'm going to cancel my trip.

So, is it soooooo bad there?

Are Thais so violent and kill people everyday, for not respecting their culture?

Do they usually overcharge for drinks and then beat you up?

Do they all have guns on them?

Oh, thank you OP, you have saved my life.

You can sleep, peacefully tonight knowing that you saved another farangs life.

Thais are perfectly fine. As long as you show respect, and behave yourself, no problem. It is about keeping ones nose clean. Yes, if you behave like an over here, you might find yourself in trouble. As far as face goes, it is an excuse to be cowardly. It is the lamest aspect of culture over here. The essence of superficiality, and an excuse to not get to know ones self. It is not common to get overcharged for drinks, and if you do, you just simply point it out to them quietly, with kindness and respect. If you behave like a drunk Brit, you could find yourself in trouble. If you are civilized, no problem. And no, most Thais do not carry guns, but some do. Avoid all karaoke places, and do not hang out on local dive bars, and you will be fine. Birmingham, Manchester and Los Angeles are far more dangerous.

I don't expect you to know this place but you can add.PILL in Newport,gwent to the above.once the worst in Europe.i know I lived there for 10yrs.

Just left Newport myself after nearly 30 years and can confirm, Pill is an absolute shthole.

[coolkat]

I agree with most of what you have written but not all of it. A friend of mine a few years ago used to tell me some stories about bars he had been into around our small town and tell me about how he was abused or almost assaulted. A few days later I went to the same bars and ordered what I wanted to drink in broken Thai. Never did I have a problem in any of these places and even when they did make a mistake with the bill I just showed them the mistake and made a joke about it. The waitress altered the bill and all was good. I think sometimes bad luck follows certain people if they are unlucky or just push the wrong people. I have been here so far for 10 years and never have I had a problem.

Behave like a tawat and you will be treated like one.

I drink in mainly Thai bars and dont have the problems asociated with farang bars where the ex CIA, Black Ops, Spooks, SAS, SBS, Boy Scouts and Sally Army brigade always think they are up for one last shot at the farang Heavy Weight Championship of the world.

Theres at least one bar on Soi LK Pattaya I could name, but wont, best avoided.

The Thais will usually give the offender at least three chances before they pummel the shit out of him, first off they ignore the remark, then they laugh it off, then they tell him he is drunk go home, after that, well som nam na.

I have been here for a similair amount of time, never had a problem

It really looks like the farang was asking for it and if they give him chances it shows that OP isn't entirely correct about face.

[coolkat]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

I think the whole 'face' thing is overrated and over estimated and misunderstood.

No one likes to be made to look stupid but westerners are mature enough to accept when they are wrong and understand that its part of life...Asians and Thais in particular just don't have that same level of maturity (in the same way that Children may not)...that is pretty much it....

I agree with most of what you have written but not all of it. A friend of mine a few years ago used to tell me some stories about bars he had been into around our small town and tell me about how he was abused or almost assaulted. A few days later I went to the same bars and ordered what I wanted to drink in broken Thai. Never did I have a problem in any of these places and even when they did make a mistake with the bill I just showed them the mistake and made a joke about it. The waitress altered the bill and all was good. I think sometimes bad luck follows certain people if they are unlucky or just push the wrong people. I have been here so far for 10 years and never have I had a problem.

Behave like a tawat and you will be treated like one.

I drink in mainly Thai bars and dont have the problems asociated with farang bars where the ex CIA, Black Ops, Spooks, SAS, SBS, Boy Scouts and Sally Army brigade always think they are up for one last shot at the farang Heavy Weight Championship of the world.

Theres at least one bar on Soi LK Pattaya I could name, but wont, best avoided.

The Thais will usually give the offender at least three chances before they pummel the shit out of him, first off they ignore the remark, then they laugh it off, then they tell him he is drunk go home, after that, well som nam na.

I have been here for a similair amount of time, never had a problem

Let's just be clear here - Thais never (or rarely) first one-on-one. Try 20 of his mates too. If you get into a fight, you need to get out of there quickly afterwards, and never to be seen again.

I have noticed that many westerns are often hypocritically self righteous. They will say thais and asians want face but the fact of the matter is that many of them actually get into altercations pretty easily if they feel they have been disrespected. It is not difficult to find such incidents on western news. This shows that western people also like face. On the 1 vs many fight issue. It is the same you can easily find many westerners ganging up on a smaller group or an individual. If you see your buddy in a scrap i am sure you would jump in to help would you stop and consider it might be dishonorable and not aid your buddy? Well there you have it. They often do not see their own behavior that they accuse others of doing. Hypocrisy at its finest.

[Berkshire]

I have noticed that many westerns are often hypocritically self righteous. They will say thais and asians want face but the fact of the matter is that many of them actually get into altercations pretty easily if they feel they have been disrespected. It is not difficult to find such incidents on western news. This shows that western people also like face. On the 1 vs many fight issue. It is the same you can easily find many westerners ganging up on a smaller group or an individual. If you see your buddy in a scrap i am sure you would jump in to help would you stop and consider it might be dishonorable and not aid your buddy? Well there you have it. They often do not see their own behavior that they accuse others of doing. Hypocrisy at its finest.

So, so, true. This explains this entire thread.

[kandi]

Op, how about just avoid Thailand?

Your views in being overcharged and letting it slide, for example, are wrong. Do as the Thais do, they wouldn't take that. Assert yourself. Do not bend over (unless that's your thing). If you are overcharged, for example, you politely point it out. If you meekly let this happen and go about your day in such a fashion; well, all your face is gone. You see, face goes both ways and if your project to have none, you will lose out in the big game.

But I do agree with your post in principal. Don't intentionally make someone lose face... though you might add unless a situation forces your hand. If someone sh1ts on your doorstep, they need to be slapped whichever country they hail from, baby states included.

Unfortunately face is absolute not two way. If I go to a shop and the owner tries to overcharge a lot, I am the one who loses face. You would think that Thais who are familiar with this term wouldn't do that because it's considered rude. And still they do it because foreigners cannot have face anyway (at least for some Thais). And if you act like any other Thai would act if he lost his face, then people think YOU are the one that's rude. This is face in Thailand.

[thailiketoo]

Let's just be clear here - Thais never (or rarely) first one-on-one. Try 20 of his mates too. If you get into a fight, you need to get out of there quickly afterwards, and never to be seen again.

The Bwana force again. Only in your dreams are Thais more gang conscience than in the West.

From the

Crips and the Bloods to

• Y. Peel Glen Team
• Y. Hill Team Derry
• Y. Linkwood Mad Squad
• Southdeen Young Team
• Young Cloan Mad Squad
• Y. Bellway Fleeto
• Jedworth Young Team
• Y. Dardie P
• Y. Essenside Fleeto

Or Peaky Blinders or Hells Angles. When was the last time you saw the Angles opt for a fair fight?

Gangs are gangs; they prey on individuals because they are cowards themselves.

When was the last time you saw a country pick a champion to do battle for the cause as opposed to letting armies fight it out and ten to one odds was the goal of most Generals conducting the battle.

Edited September 1, 2014 by thailiketoo

[SoiBiker]

Op, how about just avoid Thailand?

Your views in being overcharged and letting it slide, for example, are wrong. Do as the Thais do, they wouldn't take that. Assert yourself. Do not bend over (unless that's your thing). If you are overcharged, for example, you politely point it out. If you meekly let this happen and go about your day in such a fashion; well, all your face is gone. You see, face goes both ways and if your project to have none, you will lose out in the big game.

But I do agree with your post in principal. Don't intentionally make someone lose face... though you might add unless a situation forces your hand. If someone sh1ts on your doorstep, they need to be slapped whichever country they hail from, baby states included.

Unfortunately face is absolute not two way. If I go to a shop and the owner tries to overcharge a lot, I am the one who loses face. You would think that Thais who are familiar with this term wouldn't do that because it's considered rude. And still they do it because foreigners cannot have face anyway (at least for some Thais). And if you act like any other Thai would act if he lost his face, then people think YOU are the one that's rude. This is face in Thailand.

You lose face if you let them do it. You also lose face if you blow your top and scream at them.

Try politely and calmly pointing out that there seems to be a mistake with the bill. You know, like a normal human would.

[Bangkokhatter]

Am surprised you ever leave your home, I imagine your frightened of your own shadow.

Joking aside I drink in Thai bars most weekends and am pretty full by the time the football has finished and never had a problem in 5 years.

Depends what your like when pissed I suppose.

[Aforek]

Much exageration from the OP; just respect thai people and they will respect you ; I got sometimes arguments with Thai people, they have never try to kill me

( I avoid drunk people and bars ) .

[manxcay]

I'm not making it up about Farangs getting brutally murdered. There was a story on here about a German guy Koh Samui getting his throat cut open a couple of weeks ago.

[rgs2001uk]

I agree with most of what you have written but not all of it. A friend of mine a few years ago used to tell me some stories about bars he had been into around our small town and tell me about how he was abused or almost assaulted. A few days later I went to the same bars and ordered what I wanted to drink in broken Thai. Never did I have a problem in any of these places and even when they did make a mistake with the bill I just showed them the mistake and made a joke about it. The waitress altered the bill and all was good. I think sometimes bad luck follows certain people if they are unlucky or just push the wrong people. I have been here so far for 10 years and never have I had a problem.

Behave like a tawat and you will be treated like one.

I drink in mainly Thai bars and dont have the problems asociated with farang bars where the ex CIA, Black Ops, Spooks, SAS, SBS, Boy Scouts and Sally Army brigade always think they are up for one last shot at the farang Heavy Weight Championship of the world.

Theres at least one bar on Soi LK Pattaya I could name, but wont, best avoided.

The Thais will usually give the offender at least three chances before they pummel the shit out of him, first off they ignore the remark, then they laugh it off, then they tell him he is drunk go home, after that, well som nam na.

I have been here for a similair amount of time, never had a problem

It really looks like the farang was asking for it and if they give him chances it shows that OP isn't entirely correct about face.

Nothing to do with farang, this was Thai on Thai.

There are certain phrases I hear that immediatley make the hairs on the back of my neck prick up, on of them is "aow mai"

I have watched Thais wai and kor tawt other Thais as they pull their drunk mate away from a severe pummeling.

Most Thais are all about conflict avoidance and maintaining harmony, once you get to farang rip off towns its another story.

Reason for conflict avoidance, sooner or later someone with a bigger stick comes along.

I watched as a father pleaded for his sons life after 60+ motorcycle members parked their bikes outside the fathers house.

The gobby shyt (son) wasnt so gobby any more (he didnt have his mates to back him up), he had picked on the wrong (Thai) guy.

[sdanielmcev]

I often wonder why some refer to Thais' or other eastern cultures idea of 'face' as something only Asian. Everywhere I've ever gone there is some form of saving 'face.'

[AYJAYDEE]

I'm not making it up about Farangs getting brutally murdered. There was a story on here about a German guy Koh Samui getting his throat cut open a couple of weeks ago.

farangs get brutally murdered in every country. including their own

[apiwan]

Scaremongering.

I've drank in the nicest places.

And I've drank in the pits.

Never had a problem.

I wouldn't want to drink in some pubs in london.

[beautifulthailand99]

And remember some wise words I learnt from a long time sucessfull expat business owner - when doing business realise you are going to be shafted by your oriental counterpart the difference being the Thai-Chinese will stab you full face in the front whilst the Thai-Thai will do it smiling in your back.