Please Help us get out of Thailand

[PaulTarpey]

I am British, my wife is originally Thai but is now a British Citizen and our 5 year old son obviously has both passports but has lived in the UK and attended school there all of his life. We are actually very British - our son was born in the UK and my wife has lived in the UK for 8 years.

We came to Thailand for the 5 week school holiday. Because it was over the 30 days my wife and son entered on Thai passports and I paid for a visa.

My son's passport expired during the trip so we went to the passport office in Udon Thani on our first day - we know it only takes 5 days to renew a passport there. We explained we lived in the UK and had no home in Thailand and they told us we had to renew the Thai passport in London on our return. I thought nothing more of it - in fact because all 3 had full UK passports all valid and were to return directly to London at the end of the trip we would have no issue.

The holiday went wonderfully well - loved Jomtien, Bangkok, Krabi and the visit to some friends and family in Nong Khai.

We went to get our flight at Suvarnabuhmi Friday and got all the way through the system to the final passport check. I was astonished when they said the boy cannot leave Thailand. They told me I can go but my wife and son had to remain.

I explained 'No problem, we are all British and have valid UK passports and are returning to London - boy starts Year 1 on Tuesday'.

They said we have to leave on the passport we entered on. I explained that we cannot - the passport office won't renew it and said to do in London. They said they knew nothing about that (actually they simply did not care) and booted us out of the airport.

We are now desperate. We went to a passport office in Bang Na (cos it was near) and they said you can get a passport but need to be in a house book first.

We then called up my wife's brother who came over and took us to an office near Bang Na to ask about the house books. They said you have to book an appointment - earliest is in 28 days time and come for an interview. I explained the situation - that we don't live here but need to get a passport and they implied this would fail the interview.

The most important thing (aside from losing flight money, paying for accommodation, losing work money - I am self employed) is that my boy's education is going to suffer big time.

I am going to call up the British Embassy on Monday when they open but is there any way out of here ? It would be great if we could strip my son of his Thai Nationality if that was a possibility - I assume this would mean he would lose the Thai passport that he cannot get (sorry if this sounds crazy) and they would have to let him leave ?

Bit of a panic - can someone please help ?

[cornishcarlos]

Why don't you trying crossing at a land border on your British passports eg into Malaysia.

Then get a flight back to U.K..

Different officers interpret things differently...

[ubonjoe]

The first passport office you went to should of explained to you that your child needs to be in house book to get the passport here.

Immigration was correct in what they did.

You then went to a Amphoe or Khet to get him entered in a house book. You need to got to another Amphoe and try again to get the house book registry done. I have never heard of needing an appointment at one.

I don't think the UK embassy will be of any help.

[hotsoup]

You do not need Tabian Ban to get a Thai Passport. Does your child have a Thai ID card? You need a House registrationto get that. It does not take 5 days to get a passport; 24 hours to have it delivered. There is no reason you cannot leave on your UK passports. If you leave on the Thai passports, without UK passports then there would be a need for visas for the uk, which is obviously nonsense, if you have UK passports. Children cannot overstay, and I have never heard of a problem with 'expired Thai passports' . As far as I know there is no regulation that requires you to enter and leave on the same passport. Much of this does not add up!

[ubonjoe]

You do not need Tabian Ban to get a Thai Passport. Does your child have a Thai ID card? You need a House registrationto get that. It does not take 5 days to get a passport; 24 hours to have it delivered. There is no reason you cannot leave on your UK passports. If you leave on the Thai passports, without UK passports then there would be a need for visas for the uk, which is obviously nonsense, if you have UK passports. Children cannot overstay, and I have never heard of a problem with 'expired Thai passports' . As far as I know there is no regulation that requires you to enter and leave on the same passport. Much of this does not add up!

You are wrong on more than one point.

A house book is required if applying for the passport here in Thailand. See: http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/services/1415/21479-Requirements-for-the-Ordinary-e-Passports-Applicat.html

Without a house book registry the child would not be able to get an ID card.

It is a requirement to leave on the same passport you entered on. There would be no entry/permit to stay stamp in a foreign passport if you tried to leave on a different passport.

Since the child entered on a Thai passport they must leave on a valid Thai passport. Their UK passport does not have an entry stamp in it.

[ubonjoe]

Why don't you trying crossing at a land border on your British passports eg into Malaysia.

Then get a flight back to U.K..

Different officers interpret things differently...

That would not work. That is one thing that is absolutely the same at every immigration departure point. You must leave on the same passport you entered on unless you happened to get a new one while here and then you would show both.

[Crossy]

As far as I know there is no regulation that requires you to enter and leave on the same passport. Much of this does not add up!

It's pretty much a global requirement, have you tried?

Leaving on a replacement passport is rarely an issue but swapping nationality whilst in-country, no way José.

[saakura]

For all those holding dual passports, remember the basic rule that you have to always leave on the same passpory with which you entered.

[Lite Beer]

The basic rule is that you change Passports while in the air.

[Thanyaburi Mac]

Paul

How about adding your son to your brother-in-laws house book (tambien ban), that might solve the first problem. Then off to MFA on Chang Wattana Road for a new passport for him.

Mac

[arunsakda]

Would it be more expeditious to "lose" the Thai passport then apply for an emergency travel document from the British Embassy?

[PaulTarpey]

Fantastic responses thank you so much. It is great to know there are folks like you out there - especially when you are in the mire.

My boy does not have a Thai Id card. He was born in UK, has both passports and is just here for a holiday.

It seems from what is being said that I have to get this house book and therefore have to find a house of some sort. Obviously I don't want to rent/buy a property because of the cost. My wife is currently contacting all her friends/family to discover who in Thailand has recently changed a house book entry and how long it took. The logic being that if someone says '1 or 2 days' rather than '28 and an interview' we will go and 'live' in that house and get the house book entry ?!

It sounds strange to me but I just have a British / Western perspective and can see that things are different in other cultures now.

Once out I don't think we will have the issue again - coming back here won't be a priority.

[PaulTarpey]

Would it be more expeditious to "lose" the Thai passport then apply for an emergency travel document from the British Embassy?

Will that defo work ?

[ubonjoe]

Would it be more expeditious to "lose" the Thai passport then apply for an emergency travel document from the British Embassy?

Will that defo work ?

There would be no difference between the ETD and the UK passport your child has now.

[robertthebruce]

As for contacting the British Embassy, don't bother as they are a waste of time, honestly it's like flogging a dead horse..

Hope you get your problem resolved, going to Malaysia is a good option... And it's immediate.

All the best

[ubonjoe]

Fantastic responses thank you so much. It is great to know there are folks like you out there - especially when you are in the mire.

My boy does not have a Thai Id card. He was born in UK, has both passports and is just here for a holiday.

It seems from what is being said that I have to get this house book and therefore have to find a house of some sort. Obviously I don't want to rent/buy a property because of the cost. My wife is currently contacting all her friends/family to discover who in Thailand has recently changed a house book entry and how long it took. The logic being that if someone says '1 or 2 days' rather than '28 and an interview' we will go and 'live' in that house and get the house book entry ?!

It sounds strange to me but I just have a British / Western perspective and can see that things are different in other cultures now.

Once out I don't think we will have the issue again - coming back here won't be a priority.

You do not need a house to get the house book registry.

Your child can be entered in any house book. You wife has one that they could be entered in. I think that is what they were trying to do when you went to an Amphoe or Khet in Bangna.

You just need to try getting it sorted out at a different Amphoe than the one that said 28 days. It should only take a few hours at the most to get the registry done.

[beechguy]

Fantastic responses thank you so much. It is great to know there are folks like you out there - especially when you are in the mire.

My boy does not have a Thai Id card. He was born in UK, has both passports and is just here for a holiday.

It seems from what is being said that I have to get this house book and therefore have to find a house of some sort. Obviously I don't want to rent/buy a property because of the cost. My wife is currently contacting all her friends/family to discover who in Thailand has recently changed a house book entry and how long it took. The logic being that if someone says '1 or 2 days' rather than '28 and an interview' we will go and 'live' in that house and get the house book entry ?!

It sounds strange to me but I just have a British / Western perspective and can see that things are different in other cultures now.

Once out I don't think we will have the issue again - coming back here won't be a priority.

It's not just Thailand, every country has regulations about the length of the validity of the passport, when entering. They probably didn't say anything, because he was entering Thailand as a Thai. Bottom line is, don't travel anywhere with a passport, that is about to expire, unless you have it planned to get a new one.

Good luck, and hope you find a simple solution.

[PaulTarpey]

Thank you all ! My wife has managed to speak to a lady (friend of a friend) who works in a house book office in Nong Khai. She says it takes 2 to 3 days normally but the boss (who needs to sign apparently) will take a fee of 500 baht to get it done same day.

We are going to take the friend's house book to that office with the fee first thing Monday.

Cross fingers!

[PaulTarpey]

As a footnote I got a reply from the British Embassy email (automated) saying they will try to get in touch within 20 days.

I think you guys will have solved my problem before then

Thank you all.

[technologybytes]

Certainly in my experience you can just walk into a ampoe office and add a thai person to a family book.. which is what you need. It doesn't matter at all whose house it is.. for that matter I am sure my wife would be happy to add your son to our family book (house book) here in Chiang Mai if it helps you.

[hotsoup]

You do not need Tabian Ban to get a Thai Passport. Does your child have a Thai ID card? You need a House registrationto get that. It does not take 5 days to get a passport; 24 hours to have it delivered. There is no reason you cannot leave on your UK passports. If you leave on the Thai passports, without UK passports then there would be a need for visas for the uk, which is obviously nonsense, if you have UK passports. Children cannot overstay, and I have never heard of a problem with 'expired Thai passports' . As far as I know there is no regulation that requires you to enter and leave on the same passport. Much of this does not add up!

You are wrong on more than one point.

A house book is required if applying for the passport here in Thailand. See: http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/services/1415/21479-Requirements-for-the-Ordinary-e-Passports-Applicat.html

Without a house book registry the child would not be able to get an ID card.

It is a requirement to leave on the same passport you entered on. There would be no entry/permit to stay stamp in a foreign passport if you tried to leave on a different passport.

Since the child entered on a Thai passport they must leave on a valid Thai passport. Their UK passport does not have an entry stamp in it.

Don't wish to quibble UbonJoe..but...You do NOT need a Tabian Baan to get a passport. All you need is an ID card. Sure you need a Tabian Baan to get an ID card . My children have offered up their UK passports at Swampy with a departure card and never been asked either why they do not have an entry stamp nor asked if they entered Thailand on a Thai or other passport. TBefore there used to be a stamp in their Thai passports 'Seen at BKK' last time came in a month ago does not even have that. The airline is only interested in whether they have the right to enter the UK or a visa/passport to enter Thailand.

Anyway on a different tack..who in their right mind would bring a child to Thailand. or anywhere, with a passport that was due to expire? It is a normal part of life that to travel anywhere that the passport must have at least 6 months duration remaining

And..this child has a Thai passport already, so it is just a renewal....

Edited August 31, 2014 by hotsoup

[ubonjoe]

From http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/services/1415/21479-Requirements-for-the-Ordinary-e-Passports-Applicat.html

Documents required for applicants under the age of 15

• Birth Certificate or a certified copy from the applicant’s district office
• House Registration
• Parents or legal guardian’s Citizenship I.D. Card or the other identification card which complies to the rules of the Ministry of Interior
• A parental consent letter and a certified copy of the parent’s Citizenship I.D. Card of non-appearing parent

I am sure your children always left on the same passport they entered on.

[StefanBBK]

As some suggested before, enter the kid in any house book. (Tabien ban) this really takes a few minutes and 20 baht.

Then go back to bangna. Passport takes less than 48 hours.

As for the I'd card, I believe child needs to be 12 to get one. So no other option than Tabien ban and non- provincial passport office.

If your wife's friend says 500 baht, go for it.

Good luck.

[Lite Beer]

Kids need ID cards from the age of 7.

[chrisinth]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

You do not need Tabian Ban to get a Thai Passport. Does your child have a Thai ID card? You need a House registrationto get that. It does not take 5 days to get a passport; 24 hours to have it delivered. There is no reason you cannot leave on your UK passports. If you leave on the Thai passports, without UK passports then there would be a need for visas for the uk, which is obviously nonsense, if you have UK passports. Children cannot overstay, and I have never heard of a problem with 'expired Thai passports' . As far as I know there is no regulation that requires you to enter and leave on the same passport. Much of this does not add up!

You are wrong on more than one point.
A house book is required if applying for the passport here in Thailand. See: http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/services/1415/21479-Requirements-for-the-Ordinary-e-Passports-Applicat.html
Without a house book registry the child would not be able to get an ID card.
It is a requirement to leave on the same passport you entered on. There would be no entry/permit to stay stamp in a foreign passport if you tried to leave on a different passport.
Since the child entered on a Thai passport they must leave on a valid Thai passport. Their UK passport does not have an entry stamp in it.

Don't wish to quibble UbonJoe..but...You do NOT need a Tabian Baan to get a passport. All you need is an ID card. Sure you need a Tabian Baan to get an ID card . My children have offered up their UK passports at Swampy with a departure card and never been asked either why they do not have an entry stamp nor asked if they entered Thailand on a Thai or other passport. TBefore there used to be a stamp in their Thai passports 'Seen at BKK' last time came in a month ago does not even have that. The airline is only interested in whether they have the right to enter the UK or a visa/passport to enter Thailand.
Anyway on a different tack..who in their right mind would bring a child to Thailand. or anywhere, with a passport that was due to expire? It is a normal part of life that to travel anywhere that the passport must have at least 6 months duration remaining
And..this child has a Thai passport already, so it is just a renewal....

As a matter of interest, how does a Thai child get an ID card under the age of 15?

[simple1]

As a footnote I got a reply from the British Embassy email (automated) saying they will try to get in touch within 20 days.

I think you guys will have solved my problem before then

Thank you all.

UK Embassy will have zero input as it's a Thai domestic matter.

As a comment my wife needed something for her son from her Amphur to assist with obtaining his visa for Oz. Unfortunately she had informed them needed urgently so had the same round around as you; cannot, busy, wait X number of days blah, blah. Had to pay them a considerable amount of tea money & rec'd doco the same day. She had exactly the same issue with a Thai national govt department that we are not permitted to detail on TV

Edited August 31, 2014 by simple1

[Gsxrnz]

As a footnote I got a reply from the British Embassy email (automated) saying they will try to get in touch within 20 days.

I think you guys will have solved my problem before then

Thank you all.

UK Embassy will have zero input as it's a Thai domestic matter.

As a comment my wife needed something for her son from her Amphur to assist with obtaining his visa for Oz. Unfortunately she had informed them needed urgently so had the same round around as you; cannot, busy, wait X number of days blah, blah. Had to pay them a considerable amount of tea money & rec'd doco the same day. She had exactly the same issue with a Thai national govt department that we are not permitted to detail on TV

And the moral is - don't ever tell any official or service supplier that there is any urgency as it has a direct correlation to the "price" you will need to pay for expediency.

[tookwan cottage]

As far as I know there is no regulation that requires you to enter and leave on the same passport. Much of this does not add up!

It's pretty much a global requirement, have you tried?

Leaving on a replacement passport is rarely an issue but swapping nationality whilst in-country, no way José.

In addition to Arthur C. Clarke's quote, it is terrifying to think what this forum would be without the intervention of moderators. Thank you again.

[Chiangmai1]

It is *possible* that a thai national must always enter and exit on his thai passport.

This is the law in many countries. Not sure how it is in Thailand.

[PaulTarpey]

You do not need Tabian Ban to get a Thai Passport. Does your child have a Thai ID card? You need a House registrationto get that. It does not take 5 days to get a passport; 24 hours to have it delivered. There is no reason you cannot leave on your UK passports. If you leave on the Thai passports, without UK passports then there would be a need for visas for the uk, which is obviously nonsense, if you have UK passports. Children cannot overstay, and I have never heard of a problem with 'expired Thai passports' . As far as I know there is no regulation that requires you to enter and leave on the same passport. Much of this does not add up!

You are wrong on more than one point.

A house book is required if applying for the passport here in Thailand. See: http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/services/1415/21479-Requirements-for-the-Ordinary-e-Passports-Applicat.html

Without a house book registry the child would not be able to get an ID card.

It is a requirement to leave on the same passport you entered on. There would be no entry/permit to stay stamp in a foreign passport if you tried to leave on a different passport.

Since the child entered on a Thai passport they must leave on a valid Thai passport. Their UK passport does not have an entry stamp in it.

Don't wish to quibble UbonJoe..but...You do NOT need a Tabian Baan to get a passport. All you need is an ID card. Sure you need a Tabian Baan to get an ID card . My children have offered up their UK passports at Swampy with a departure card and never been asked either why they do not have an entry stamp nor asked if they entered Thailand on a Thai or other passport. TBefore there used to be a stamp in their Thai passports 'Seen at BKK' last time came in a month ago does not even have that. The airline is only interested in whether they have the right to enter the UK or a visa/passport to enter Thailand.

Anyway on a different tack..who in their right mind would bring a child to Thailand. or anywhere, with a passport that was due to expire? It is a normal part of life that to travel anywhere that the passport must have at least 6 months duration remaining

And..this child has a Thai passport already, so it is just a renewal....

hotsoup, I understand where you are coming from re the 6 months and me not being in my right mind. It would be insane to venture abroad with a single passport that is running out. Clearly. No quibbles.

However heading to the nation of the passport where you have been reliably told it takes a week to renew, with a valid passport for years ahead for your return country did not sound insane to me. I thought that rocking up at any overseas airport with a valid UK passport on a direct flight to London would not be an issue. But I could be mad - I will let you know when I conduct a reasonableness survey of other folks when (if) I get back home.

Anyway nice to have your comments when I am up sh*t creek without a paddle - something else to think about.

Just for completeness, the woman at the office told my wife that the 'Tabian Baan' sign up means my 5 year old gets on some register for Thai Military Service when he is around 18 years and that there is another 'fee' to not go into some kind of ballot. I don't understand and am not really worried - whatever happens he won't be doing it. Just thought I would give the full picture for any future readers with the same problems.