Woman beheaded in London attack

[Seastallion]

I see everything from thirty year old murders outside abortion clinics, Catholic views on homosexuality, to Bosnia are being pushed out as the usual diversionary smokescreen we get. Some things are certain. The murderer IS a convert to Islam. Severing a head, whether it occurs prior to or after death requires the premeditation of conscious effort to carry out. World events make the link between Islam and decapitation an easy one to conclude. Some may say the accused is of limited mentality and perhaps severed the head as a post-hoc 'justification' for a possibly drug fueled frenzied attack. I guess the reports he was a failure who never had any money or prospects will be used to explain away his actions as oppose to his ideology. However there is an increasing body of evidence that argues social depravation and limited intellect are not the prime motivators, but ideology is.

How else do you explain this? A British doctor holding up a severed head.

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/398717/Jihadi-doctor-Syria-Islamic-State-executing

You read this tripe and swallow it hook, line, and sinker.

A petite woman like that, holding a 4.5 - 5 kg weight, at nearly arms length, standing relaxed, without leaning back? You try it with a 5 litre bottle of water.

[transam]

I see everything from thirty year old murders outside abortion clinics, Catholic views on homosexuality, to Bosnia are being pushed out as the usual diversionary smokescreen we get. Some things are certain. The murderer IS a convert to Islam. Severing a head, whether it occurs prior to or after death requires the premeditation of conscious effort to carry out. World events make the link between Islam and decapitation an easy one to conclude. Some may say the accused is of limited mentality and perhaps severed the head as a post-hoc 'justification' for a possibly drug fueled frenzied attack. I guess the reports he was a failure who never had any money or prospects will be used to explain away his actions as oppose to his ideology. However there is an increasing body of evidence that argues social depravation and limited intellect are not the prime motivators, but ideology is.

How else do you explain this? A British doctor holding up a severed head.

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/398717/Jihadi-doctor-Syria-Islamic-State-executing

You read this tripe and swallow it hook, line, and sinker.

A petite woman like that, holding a 4.5 - 5 kg weight, at nearly arms length, standing relaxed, without leaning back? You try it with a 5 litre bottle of water.

I hope you ain't 7 x 7..........

I jest..............

[canuckamuck]

She seems to be leaning back

[Albertosez]

Get your retaliation in first - because you won't live to regret it - otherwise !!

[boomerangutang]

That you can't distinguish the moderates from the jihadists is the fault of the moderates. They should, if they really oppose the violent side of Islam, make sure they belong to a group that condemns it. If it were me, I would make sure people knew where I stood when it came to murder, rape, and other crimes against humanity. It is not a grey area.

I admire what you say, but the reality is, if a moderate Muslim really does speak out, he risks being bullied and/or beaten by extremists - or possibly killed along with his family. At the least he will be shouted at and denounced as 'not a Muslim.' Not a good situation.

[Albertosez]

That you can't distinguish the moderates from the jihadists is the fault of the moderates. They should, if they really oppose the violent side of Islam, make sure they belong to a group that condemns it. If it were me, I would make sure people knew where I stood when it came to murder, rape, and other crimes against humanity. It is not a grey area.

I admire what you say, but the reality is, if a moderate Muslim really does speak out, he risks being bullied and/or beaten by extremists - or possibly killed along with his family. At the least he will be shouted at and denounced as 'not a Muslim.' Not a good situation.

Damned if you do and damned I you do not. However, if that is the case, surely, as a very principled religion, it is much more necessary to differentiate ?

[jacky54]

Were there any moderate Nazi's? any not quite so bad members of the khmer rouge? well probably, but they did not change anything, and they did not make the totally evil creeds they went along with any more acceptable just because they did not quite go along with all the excesses of what they belonged to. It's just the same with Islam, totally evil as can be seen by it's history, and yet people dare to come on here and defend it by pointing to the moderates and the not so evil. Apologists do not change a line in the koran or take away any of the obscene cruelty and mass murder carried out in the name of Islam over the past 1400 years, and that is still going on in it's name around the world every day.

Edited September 12, 2014 by jacky54

[transam]

And where is 7 x 7, he will have the answer. I will guess he says it's was an out take from a Spitting Image episode...

[Scott]

An off-topic post has been deleted.

[nidieunimaitre]

So, what have we learned in this thread?

According to one poster, and almost nobody reacted, "where there are black people, there is more violent crime".

And to make his point even more clear, he added "it's in their makeup".

This was confirmed by another poster, while yet another one asked me "what's the problem with that opinion?".

Another poster felt the need to inform us that he talked on the phone with his brother about a violent murder, and before all details were known, they both already knew a black man was involved. Surely psychic, surely not racist?

And there were more examples.

[Thai at Heart]

7by7- I am only curious: do you get it?

I am not talking about your arguments or those against you. I am curious, do you understand why folks like me are worried, or why so many have fear of the Third Jihad of islamic expansion? You appear committed to your line of reasoning, but do you understand the world of islamic jihad today has people worried?

Of course I know that people are worried about Islamic jihad, of course I am aware that Islamic fundamentalism is a problem world wide.

I am not naïve.

But I am also aware that using any excuse, such as this murder, to demonise the majority of Muslims who are not fundamental jihadists will only add to the problem, not help cure it.

The white middle class isn't marching against Jihad. No one.is demonizing all Muslims. What is pretty obvious though is that there is a perception that since the Muslim faith apparently conducts itself very much in private, that it is very much the responsibility of moderate Muslims to remove extremism from their religion.

Actions speak louder than words.

[Ulysses G.]

So, what have we learned in this thread?

According to one poster, and almost nobody reacted, "where there are black people, there is more violent crime".

In USA, blacks accounted for more than 50% of homicide offenders, even though they only make up 13% of the population. The offending rate for blacks was almost 8 times higher than for whites. I don't think that it is "in their makeup", but it is factual that they commit violent crimes way out of proportion to other races - at least in America.

[Thai at Heart]

*Deleted quotes edited out*

This is a false argument. The fact that the black community commits a disproportionate amount of crime is true. This does not correlate that all blacks commit more crimes.

Doesn't change the fact that crime is more prevelant among the black community. The next trick, if it doesn't hurt ur brain too much, is to work out why, and to come up with solutions.

Then apropos, the Muslim problem, who shares the responsibility for the issue? Is it middle England alone who shall fight Muslim extremism alone? Or should the so called moderate muslims get involved too?

Middle England may one day fight if moderate Muslims don't do more to clean up their own house. Then watch the problems start.

Edited September 13, 2014 by Scott

[nidieunimaitre]

So, what have we learned in this thread?

According to one poster, and almost nobody reacted, "where there are black people, there is more violent crime".

In USA, blacks accounted for more than 50% of homicide offenders, even though they only make up 13% of the population. The offending rate for blacks was almost 8 times higher than for whites. I don't think that it is "in their makeup", but it is factual that they commit violent crimes way out of proportion to other races - at least in America.

Beware.

One day, the US will have a black president.

Who knows what crimes he will commit, it will be , according to your reasoning, much worse than Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Bush, baby Bush.

This is a false argument. The fact that the black community commits a disproportionate amount of crime is true. This does not correlate that all blacks commit more crimes.

Doesn't change the fact that crime is more prevelant among the black community. The next trick, if it doesn't hurt ur brain too much, is to work out why, and to come up with solutions.

Then apropos, the Muslim problem, who shares the responsibility for the issue? Is it middle England alone who shall fight Muslim extremism alone? Or should the so called moderate muslims get involved too?

Middle England may one day fight if moderate Muslims don't do more to clean up their own house. Then watch the problems start.

Not sure who you are talking to.

If you are talking to an extreme right winger, please give him some clues.

If you are talking to me. no need, I am a leftie, so I already know the answers.

[Scott]

Troll posts and replies deleted. Continue and you will earn a suspension.

[nidieunimaitre]

Transam, do you remember the thread in which you were telling us about your friend that was not allowed to enter Tesco in UK because of his motor bike helmet?

Another extremist (extremist as in Transam) gave you a hard time, while defending muslim's right to wear burkas, niqabs or whatever.

I attacked that extremist view, and posted about how in Belgium there is a crack down on all extreme religious symbols, AND YOU LIKED my posts......

Could it be possible that ALL EXTREMISTS are wrong?

[transam]

Transam, do you remember the thread in which you were telling us about your friend that was not allowed to enter Tesco in UK because of his motor bike helmet?

Another extremist (extremist as in Transam) gave you a hard time, while defending muslim's right to wear burkas, niqabs or whatever.

I attacked that extremist view, and posted about how in Belgium there is a crack down on all extreme religious symbols, AND YOU LIKED my posts......

Could it be possible that ALL EXTREMISTS are wrong?

I do remember but now dare not answer...........

[transam]

Troll posts and replies deleted. Continue and you will earn a suspension.

Exposing a blatant racist post surely is not considered trolling?

Briggsy said about black people and violence:

"IT IS IN THEIR MAKEUP"

I asked apologists for their comments.

If this is trolling, please suspend me for ever.

Or did I misunderstand?

Cool it chap, you are toooooo valuable here..........

[nidieunimaitre]

Transam, do you remember the thread in which you were telling us about your friend that was not allowed to enter Tesco in UK because of his motor bike helmet?

Another extremist (extremist as in Transam) gave you a hard time, while defending muslim's right to wear burkas, niqabs or whatever.

I attacked that extremist view, and posted about how in Belgium there is a crack down on all extreme religious symbols, AND YOU LIKED my posts......

Could it be possible that ALL EXTREMISTS are wrong?

I do remember but now dare not answer...........

I understand what you mean.

However, I DARE.

That's the difference between you and me.

I have a life outside racist forums.

[jacky54]

Missed this beheading attack by a Muslim in London last year, no doubt he was not a 'jihadist' though so some might think that mitigation in some way

Third Muslim beheading attempt takes place in London within weeks. How many more unreported ones are there?

http://themuslimissue.wordpress.com/2013/06/22/third-known-muslim-beheading-takes-place-in-london-how-many-more-unreported-ones-are-there/

Edited September 13, 2014 by jacky54

[7by7]

Missed this beheading attack by a Muslim in London last year, no doubt he was not a 'jihadist' though so some might think that mitigation in some way

Third Muslim beheading attempt takes place in London within weeks. How many more unreported ones are there?

http://themuslimissue.wordpress.com/2013/06/22/third-known-muslim-beheading-takes-place-in-london-how-many-more-unreported-ones-are-there/

OK, this one is worth coming back to respond to.

Despite the claims of the website linked to; the murder was reported in the London press. It didn't get nationwide coverage, but not many murders do.

Mentally ill killer hospitalised after slitting disabled neighbour's throat in Thamesmead.

The victim was battered about the head with a flowerpot and his throat cut with a carving knife. He was not beheaded; which would be very difficult to do with a carving knife.

The murderer is a mental patient who had stopped taking his medication.

He has been sectioned indefinitely.

Judge Stephen Kramer QC told Mohamed: "It is clear to me that particularly if you stop taking your medication, you pose a serious risk to members of the public."

He ordered Mohamed to be detained under sections 37 and 41 of the Mental Health Act at the Bracton Centre in Dartford.

Not an Islamic jihadist, but a mentally ill man with violent tendencies who had stopped taking his medication.

But, Jacky54, I know you and your mates wont accept that; I know that sites like the one you linked to wont.

Sites like that scour the news for any crime committed by a Muslim so that they can blame their religion for the crime.

Only the gullible believe them; the rest of us look at the facts and evidence of each case before making a judgement.

[jacky54]

The victim was battered about the head with a flowerpot and his throat cut with a carving knife. He was not beheaded; which would be very difficult to do with a carving knife.

It could be argued all the followers are mentally ill to some extent. Nobody claimed it was a beheading but an attempted one, I think a carving knife does cut up meat and bone. So he was another 'nutter' was he then who just so happened to be another would be be header, where do they get their ideas from.

[transam]

Missed this beheading attack by a Muslim in London last year, no doubt he was not a 'jihadist' though so some might think that mitigation in some way

Third Muslim beheading attempt takes place in London within weeks. How many more unreported ones are there?

http://themuslimissue.wordpress.com/2013/06/22/third-known-muslim-beheading-takes-place-in-london-how-many-more-unreported-ones-are-there/

OK, this one is worth coming back to respond to.

Despite the claims of the website linked to; the murder was reported in the London press. It didn't get nationwide coverage, but not many murders do.

Mentally ill killer hospitalised after slitting disabled neighbour's throat in Thamesmead.

The victim was battered about the head with a flowerpot and his throat cut with a carving knife. He was not beheaded; which would be very difficult to do with a carving knife.

The murderer is a mental patient who had stopped taking his medication.

He has been sectioned indefinitely.

Judge Stephen Kramer QC told Mohamed: "It is clear to me that particularly if you stop taking your medication, you pose a serious risk to members of the public."

He ordered Mohamed to be detained under sections 37 and 41 of the Mental Health Act at the Bracton Centre in Dartford.

Not an Islamic jihadist, but a mentally ill man with violent tendencies who had stopped taking his medication.

But, Jacky54, I know you and your mates wont accept that; I know that sites like the one you linked to wont.

Sites like that scour the news for any crime committed by a Muslim so that they can blame their religion for the crime.

Only the gullible believe them; the rest of us look at the facts and evidence of each case before making a judgement.

Hmmmmm, the guy's name does ring a bell.......

[7by7]

Sites like that scour the news for any crime committed by a Muslim so that they can blame their religion for the crime.

Only the gullible believe them; the rest of us look at the facts and evidence of each case before making a judgement.

Yet again, Jacky and Transam, you have proven my point for me far better than I ever could!

[Ulysses G.]

Missed this beheading attack by a Muslim in London last year, no doubt he was not a 'jihadist' though so some might think that mitigation in some way

Third Muslim beheading attempt takes place in London within weeks. How many more unreported ones are there?

http://themuslimissue.wordpress.com/2013/06/22/third-known-muslim-beheading-takes-place-in-london-how-many-more-unreported-ones-are-there/

Not an Islamic jihadist, but a mentally ill man with violent tendencies who had stopped taking his medication.

All jihadists are mentally ill and have violent tendencies. The only difference is that this one lives in a Western country.

Edited September 13, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[jacky54]

Sites like that scour the news for any crime committed by a Muslim so that they can blame their religion for the crime.

Only the gullible believe them; the rest of us look at the facts and evidence of each case before making a judgement.

Yet again, Jacky and Transam, you have proven my point for me far better than I ever could!

what is your point apart from, it's not all Muslims, they do speak out against the barbarity of Islam (really) and other religions are just as bad?

[Scott]

A post and reply have been deleted.

[F430murci]

Oh no, those whacky Muslims are at it again or should we also just write these killers off as crazy and not true, but wanna be gangster Muslims randomly killing some decent white 19 year-old college student and three others just minding their own business just like the poor lady beheaded.

Seems to be a common theme present. Black perpetrator, killing of defenseless execution style, white victims who black perpetrators did not know, no prior interaction or personal animosity between the perpetrator and the victim, and perpetrators having some Muslim type connection.

Anyone know the race/color of the people in the car whom dude tried to attack with large knife before beheading the poor little old lady, I.e, did he just target whites or also go after blacks?

---------

Essex County authorities have charged 29-year-old Ali Muhammad Brown with killing Tevlin in a West Orange intersection on June 25. Since being taken into custody on July 18, he has confessed to the murder, along with three others in Washington state, saying they were carried out as retribution for innocent lives lost in Iraq, Syria and other parts of the Islamic world.

Pettengil criticized President Barack Obama and U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder for not referencing the case in recent addresses and downplaying the level of threat radical Islamists currently living in America could pose.

http://nation.foxnews.com/2014/09/12/brendan-tevlins-jihadist-revenge-murder-evidence-domestic-terrorism-already-here

[ukrules]

Oh no, those whacky Muslims are at it again or should we also just write these killers off as crazy and not true, but wanna be gangster Muslims randomly killing some decent white 19 year-old college student and three others just minding their own business just like the poor lady beheaded.

Seems to be a common theme present. Black perpetrator, killing of defenseless execution style, white victims who black perpetrators did not know, no prior interaction or personal animosity between the perpetrator and the victim, and perpetrators having some Muslim type connection.

Anyone know the race/color of the people in the car whom dude tried to attack with large knife before beheading the poor little old lady, I.e, did he just target whites or also go after blacks?

---------

Essex County authorities have charged 29-year-old Ali Muhammad Brown with killing Tevlin in a West Orange intersection on June 25. Since being taken into custody on July 18, he has confessed to the murder, along with three others in Washington state, saying they were carried out as retribution for innocent lives lost in Iraq, Syria and other parts of the Islamic world.

Pettengil criticized President Barack Obama and U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder for not referencing the case in recent addresses and downplaying the level of threat radical Islamists currently living in America could pose.

http://nation.foxnews.com/2014/09/12/brendan-tevlins-jihadist-revenge-murder-evidence-domestic-terrorism-already-here

They don't publicise crimes like this because they're trying to delay the inevitable. War is coming to the streets.

[for real]

So, what have we learned in this thread?

According to one poster, and almost nobody reacted, "where there are black people, there is more violent crime".

In USA, blacks accounted for more than 50% of homicide offenders, even though they only make up 13% of the population. The offending rate for blacks was almost 8 times higher than for whites. I don't think that it is "in their makeup", but it is factual that they commit violent crimes way out of proportion to other races - at least in America.

The same for Britain.Years ago before mugging became a word in the English language and as the black immigrants increased in numbers white people would report that they had been robbed in the street by a coloured gang 'coloured 'was the word always used for the description of 'gang' street robberies.

PS..In those days blacks were called 'coloured'

Edited September 13, 2014 by for real