Ex-commerce minister’s secretary faces charges over fake G-to-G rice deals

[rubl]

NACC better made this charge watertight after the last fiasco. For now, any news from NACC are taken with a pinch of salt and to be ignored until we see charges accepted by the courts and conviction.

Pray tell, which fiasco ?

[rubl]

They haven't even put it in the.public domain what grades and qualities they have in the warehouse.

All they have said is that it is substandard. And????

They? Shouldn't that information have been made available by the 'they' that bought and stored it? Of course such transparency and accountability may have precluded some of the games 'they' have played, and now face prosecution for.

I don't care who they are.

Until someone points out that grade A went in, and Grade F is really what they have and it has cost xxxxxbaht, the whole thing is just smoke and mirrors.

This could all be a scam to sell grade B at grade F prices for all we know.

Well, if only Ms. Yingluck and her Admnistration would have had a little more time, I'm sure we would have had the single A4 page with all details anyone would ever want or need to know.

As it is a large force had to be send out to just register what was there and try to relate it with the available warehouse administration. Didn't you receive your copy yet of the report, with the complimentary book shelfs to put the volumes on?

[Thai at Heart]

They haven't even put it in the.public domain what grades and qualities they have in the warehouse.

All they have said is that it is substandard. And????

They? Shouldn't that information have been made available by the 'they' that bought and stored it? Of course such transparency and accountability may have precluded some of the games 'they' have played, and now face prosecution for.

I don't care who they are.

Until someone points out that grade A went in, and Grade F is really what they have and it has cost xxxxxbaht, the whole thing is just smoke and mirrors.

This could all be a scam to sell grade B at grade F prices for all we know.

Well, if only Ms. Yingluck and her Admnistration would have had a little more time, I'm sure we would have had the single A4 page with all details anyone would ever want or need to know.

As it is a large force had to be send out to just register what was there and try to relate it with the available warehouse administration. Didn't you receive your copy yet of the report, with the complimentary book shelfs to put the volumes on?

They know what was in the warehouse. Millions of tonnes of it has been some domestically and internationally.

At the moment, why this all completely secret from the people god knows.

[Old Man River]

Personally I can understand your barely suppressed anger. I mean, obviously Ms. Yingluck knew nothing,

She was only chairwoman of the National Rice Board, PM of her own, handpicked cabinet and as she stated during the last censure debate only she and no one else was in charge. How can she be 'only negligent' ? Between 500 and 700++billion Baht lost, but the PM obviously knowing nothing, being 'innocent as a babe', a cute one as well as some have it.

Anger, No. Resignation, Yes. Thailand has been through this before, except last time the organ grinders monkey was called the AEC.

You'll keep on posting about 500++ or 700++ billion baht lost but at the end of the day that is what the rice price pledging scheme cost the State. It was not lost but of course that sounds sexier and implies 500++ or whatever lost to corruption.

Fab4:

If it was all above board as you say, why were they afraid to issue audited accounts? OK, forget audited accounts, why were they even afraid to issue unaudited accounts?

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

I don't know. Presumably the NACC have audited the accounts or how would they have been able to confidently "predict" a cost to the State of 500 - 700 million baht (depending on who is publishing the guesstimates). As a result I am confident they will be able to prove that corruption is the reason for those widely published guesstimates, ................won't they?

There is the report from the Office of Audit General which covered the first three crops (through the 2012/2013 crop) which estimated the loss at THB 332.37 billion, with the losses from comparative periods increasing. Hence, the estimated cost to Thailand for the remaining crops, in the aggregate, seems to put the cost to Thailand in the range they are talking about. In addition, they have proof of the stockpiles of substandard rice.

I don't know if they can prove malfeasance without proving a specific case of corruption. IMHO, misconduct is a no brainer and there is enough malfeasance related smoke floating around to where this isn't going away even if the OAG passes on it.

TDRI, as noted by the NACC, has been doing a lot of research on this.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[Thai at Heart]

The clincher is if they can prove that she knew it was never going to be self financing or that she was told very clearly very early on that it wasn't going to be self financing and continued anyway.

I.e. that they can prove she knowingly lied to parliament.

[Old Man River]

They haven't even put it in the.public domain what grades and qualities they have in the warehouse.

All they have said is that it is substandard. And????

They? Shouldn't that information have been made available by the 'they' that bought and stored it? Of course such transparency and accountability may have precluded some of the games 'they' have played, and now face prosecution for.

I don't care who they are.

Until someone points out that grade A went in, and Grade F is really what they have and it has cost xxxxxbaht, the whole thing is just smoke and mirrors.

This could all be a scam to sell grade B at grade F prices for all we know.

They know what they have ended up with, but, who knows, maybe some of the records about what went in were in those unexplained fires.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[Thai at Heart]

They haven't even put it in the.public domain what grades and qualities they have in the warehouse.

All they have said is that it is substandard. And????

They? Shouldn't that information have been made available by the 'they' that bought and stored it? Of course such transparency and accountability may have precluded some of the games 'they' have played, and now face prosecution for.

I don't care who they are.

Until someone points out that grade A went in, and Grade F is really what they have and it has cost xxxxxbaht, the whole thing is just smoke and mirrors.

This could all be a scam to sell grade B at grade F prices for all we know.

They know what they have ended up with, but, who knows, maybe some of the records about what went in were in those unexplained fires.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

They have taken 1700 samples and this is never going to be enough to accurately grade what they have in the 17mn sacks. Even less so if the con goes beyond deterioration and refers to deliberately misgrading the product.

Why don't they release a statement of exactly what they have in the warehouse with the grades attached versus the current sale prices?

[Dogmatix]

The case against Yingluck which is essentially making her take responsibility for thefts she allowed to be committed because her brother told her to do it, although she probably got a percentage stashed offshore too. However, there are others, including very likely Boonsong, who actively facilitated the fake rice exports by signing fake documents. This being the case, his secretary must have known about it too and was likely a facilitator.

[rubl]

The clincher is if they can prove that she knew it was never going to be self financing or that she was told very clearly very early on that it wasn't going to be self financing and continued anyway.

I.e. that they can prove she knowingly lied to parliament.

How about increasing the limit of the revolving funds from 500 to 700 billion Baht, or was that just 'temporarily' as the Thai rice farmers were really at it and stocks couldn't be sold fast enough?

Even mid-2013 Ms. Yingluck indicated the RPPS only needed 270 billion and financing was secured, only to have her caretaking cabinet needed to borrow 130 billion Baht December 2013.

If Ms. Yingluck had been running a company it would be broke. As it is now the Thai population is left with a 500 to 700++ billion Baht debt at BAAC guranteed by the Yingluck government.

[rubl]

Well, if only Ms. Yingluck and her Admnistration would have had a little more time, I'm sure we would have had the single A4 page with all details anyone would ever want or need to know.

As it is a large force had to be send out to just register what was there and try to relate it with the available warehouse administration. Didn't you receive your copy yet of the report, with the complimentary book shelfs to put the volumes on?

They know what was in the warehouse. Millions of tonnes of it has been some domestically and internationally.

At the moment, why this all completely secret from the people god knows.

'they know what was' ? Even some internationally ?

As for 'completely secret', well it would seem that ever since the NCPO stepped in this 'complete secret' has started to unravel.

[rubl]

They have taken 1700 samples and this is never going to be enough to accurately grade what they have in the 17mn sacks. Even less so if the con goes beyond deterioration and refers to deliberately misgrading the product.

Why don't they release a statement of exactly what they have in the warehouse with the grades attached versus the current sale prices?

Statistics not your major I guess?

Anyway, how come I didn't hear you complain when Ms. Yingluck was still in charge and we only got good news and conflicting stories?

I assume that the report on the 'rice inspection tour' is being prepared and will be used as evidence in a possible court case. When such case is accepted the data will be more widely available. Till then, only some of it.

Note that this is not the E.C. which has detailed reports before projects are even started

[Eric Loh]

the current scape goat

Well not really current. This case was first brought out in Parliment back in 2012. The NACC need to resurrect this 2 years old case as a back-up to Yingluck fast evaporating case. They will try anything and everything to nail something as people lose faith in their credibility.

[rubl]

the current scape goat

Well not really current. This case was first brought out in Parliment back in 2012. The NACC need to resurrect this 2 years old case as a back-up to Yingluck fast evaporating case. They will try anything and everything to nail something as people lose faith in their credibility.

'resurrect' ?

Maybe more "it took some time to get the paperwork together' ?

2012-08-12

"Thailand Selling Rice To 3 Countries Under G2G"

http://soclaimon.wordpress.com/2012/08/20/thailand-selling-rice-to-3-countries-under-g2g/

2012-10-12

"Yingluck government to push for higher price of Thai rice"

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/world/2012-10/12/c_131903054.htm

2012-11-27

"NO-CONFIDENCE DEBATE

Rice deals with China fake, opposition claims"

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Rice-deals-with-China-fake-opposition-claims-30195106.html

2012-12-12

"Democrats to pursue 'rice scam'"

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Democrats-to-pursue-rice-scam-30195420.html

2013-12-03

"NACC finds irregularities in Chinese rice deals"

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/nacc-finds-irregularities-chinese-rice-deals/

[khunken]

the current scape goat

Well not really current. This case was first brought out in Parliment back in 2012. The NACC need to resurrect this 2 years old case as a back-up to Yingluck fast evaporating case. They will try anything and everything to nail something as people lose faith in their credibility.

Only the PTP sycophants and boot-lickers are questioning the NACCs credibility.

I suppose it didn't occur to you that this case may well be a part of the case against Yingluck. There's nothing evaporating at all.

The AG has decided to work with the NACC to make the case more watertight. Not difficult to understand as:

The current NACC case filed by the AG against Khunying Jaruvan followed the exact same steps as is being followed in the case against Yingluck. Ex-graft buster Jaruvan to be indicted

Whether Yingluck knew about the obvious fraud in the case mentioned in the Op is not clear but her Commerce Minister can hardly plead innocence. Both the Commerce & Finance ministers were up to their neck in concealing any details about the fake deals and the financial status of the revolving fund.

[Robby nz]

the current scape goat

Well not really current. This case was first brought out in Parliment back in 2012. The NACC need to resurrect this 2 years old case as a back-up to Yingluck fast evaporating case. They will try anything and everything to nail something as people lose faith in their credibility.

While the case was first brought in 2012 it was only concluded with a conviction in June of this year:

June 25, 2014 8:59 AM

Rice kingpin sentenced to six years in jail for B200mn fraud

The Nation / Phuket Gazette

PHUKET: The Samut Prakan provincial court yesterday sentenced a rice businessman reportedly close to former PM Thaksin Shinawatra to six years in jail and fined him Bt12,000 after finding him guilty of embezzlement and fraud for his failure to deliver a Bt200-million broken-rice shipment to Iran.

Only in your tiny little red mind is the case against Yingluck evaporating, on the contrary it is in the process of being strengthened with the OAG getting together with the NACC to ensure there are no loopholes.

What people are losing faith (other than yourself and the few other red supporters) in the NACC ?

[Thai at Heart]

The clincher is if they can prove that she knew it was never going to be self financing or that she was told very clearly very early on that it wasn't going to be self financing and continued anyway.

I.e. that they can prove she knowingly lied to parliament.

How about increasing the limit of the revolving funds from 500 to 700 billion Baht, or was that just 'temporarily' as the Thai rice farmers were really at it and stocks couldn't be sold fast enough?

Even mid-2013 Ms. Yingluck indicated the RPPS only needed 270 billion and financing was secured, only to have her caretaking cabinet needed to borrow 130 billion Baht December 2013.

If Ms. Yingluck had been running a company it would be broke. As it is now the Thai population is left with a 500 to 700++ billion Baht debt at BAAC guranteed by the Yingluck government.

Subsidies are subsidies. It's about working out whether she knew it was never going of be self financing or not. That is the lie.

Governments are not run like companies.

[Robby nz]

It should be noted that the ex commerce minister has already been charged. (Excerpt)

Former commerce minister Boonsong Teriyapirom and ex-deputy commerce minister Poom Sarapol were charged by the agency, together with 13 other persons including former director-general of the External Trade Department Manas Sroypol who was involved in negotiations to sell rice to two Chinese state enterprises on government-to-government contracts.

http://pattayatoday.net/news/thailand-news/yingluck-to-be-probed-ex-ministers-charged-on-rice-scheme/

[rubl]

The clincher is if they can prove that she knew it was never going to be self financing or that she was told very clearly very early on that it wasn't going to be self financing and continued anyway.

I.e. that they can prove she knowingly lied to parliament.

How about increasing the limit of the revolving funds from 500 to 700 billion Baht, or was that just 'temporarily' as the Thai rice farmers were really at it and stocks couldn't be sold fast enough?

Even mid-2013 Ms. Yingluck indicated the RPPS only needed 270 billion and financing was secured, only to have her caretaking cabinet needed to borrow 130 billion Baht December 2013.

If Ms. Yingluck had been running a company it would be broke. As it is now the Thai population is left with a 500 to 700++ billion Baht debt at BAAC guranteed by the Yingluck government.

Subsidies are subsidies. It's about working out whether she knew it was never going of be self financing or not. That is the lie.

Governments are not run like companies.

There we go again. That was NOT a subsidy!

The Yingluck Administration positioned their RPPS as self-financing requiring a 500 billion Baht REVOLVING" funds only. With that reasoning they even got away with leaving the financing out of the National Budget.

'revolving' as in pay out from it, restore with revenue from rice sales.

"A revolving fund is a fund or account that remains available to finance an organization's continuing operations without any fiscal year limitation, because the organization replenishes the fund by repaying money used from the account. Revolving funds have been used to support both government and non-profit operations."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolving_fund

[khunken]

The clincher is if they can prove that she knew it was never going to be self financing or that she was told very clearly very early on that it wasn't going to be self financing and continued anyway.

I.e. that they can prove she knowingly lied to parliament.

How about increasing the limit of the revolving funds from 500 to 700 billion Baht, or was that just 'temporarily' as the Thai rice farmers were really at it and stocks couldn't be sold fast enough?

Even mid-2013 Ms. Yingluck indicated the RPPS only needed 270 billion and financing was secured, only to have her caretaking cabinet needed to borrow 130 billion Baht December 2013.

If Ms. Yingluck had been running a company it would be broke. As it is now the Thai population is left with a 500 to 700++ billion Baht debt at BAAC guranteed by the Yingluck government.

Subsidies are subsidies. It's about working out whether she knew it was never going of be self financing or not. That is the lie.

Governments are not run like companies.

There we go again. That was NOT a subsidy!

The Yingluck Administration positioned their RPPS as self-financing requiring a 500 billion Baht REVOLVING" funds only. With that reasoning they even got away with leaving the financing out of the National Budget.

'revolving' as in pay out from it, restore with revenue from rice sales.

"A revolving fund is a fund or account that remains available to finance an organization's continuing operations without any fiscal year limitation, because the organization replenishes the fund by repaying money used from the account. Revolving funds have been used to support both government and non-profit operations."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolving_fund

Sorry Rubl but that's not the whole story. There is absolutely no doubt that the fund could never be self sustaining when the cost of inputs substantially exceeded the revenue from outputs.

Here is a better (broader) description of a revolving fund:

A revolving fund is a means by which Parliament provides continuing authorization for an operation that is funded completely by users, or partly by users and partly by subsidization (the latter usually taking the form of an annual appropriation.

See: http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/fm-gf/tools-outils/guides/rf-fr/rf-fr01-eng.asp

It comes from Canada where fiscal prudence is somewhat higher than it neighbour as well as Thailand.

[rubl]

Subsidies are subsidies. It's about working out whether she knew it was never going of be self financing or not. That is the lie.

Governments are not run like companies.

There we go again. That was NOT a subsidy!

The Yingluck Administration positioned their RPPS as self-financing requiring a 500 billion Baht REVOLVING" funds only. With that reasoning they even got away with leaving the financing out of the National Budget.

'revolving' as in pay out from it, restore with revenue from rice sales.

"A revolving fund is a fund or account that remains available to finance an organization's continuing operations without any fiscal year limitation, because the organization replenishes the fund by repaying money used from the account. Revolving funds have been used to support both government and non-profit operations."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolving_fund

Sorry Rubl but that's not the whole story. There is absolutely no doubt that the fund could never be self sustaining when the cost of inputs substantially exceeded the revenue from outputs.

Here is a better (broader) description of a revolving fund:

A revolving fund is a means by which Parliament provides continuing authorization for an operation that is funded completely by users, or partly by users and partly by subsidization (the latter usually taking the form of an annual appropriation.

See: http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/fm-gf/tools-outils/guides/rf-fr/rf-fr01-eng.asp

It comes from Canada where fiscal prudence is somewhat higher than it neighbour as well as Thailand.

"absolutely no doubt that the fund could never be self sustaining"

Might I add "... except in the explanations offered by the Yingluck Administration and a few posters here" ?

The Yingluck Administration let tthe BAAC set up this 500 billion Baht fund acting as guarantor. With the BAAC warning about the funds running empty, the Yingluck Administration let it add another 200 billion or so.. None of this financing has come from the National Budget.

Indeed, 'fiscal prudence' seems lost on the Yingluck Administration which in their blanket amnesty bill even covered their own two years in office. That's 'prudence' of another kind all together!

PS I striked out the "n" as I think that was a typo ?

Edited September 6, 2014 by rubl

[Eric Loh]

It should be noted that the ex commerce minister has already been charged. (Excerpt)

Former commerce minister Boonsong Teriyapirom and ex-deputy commerce minister Poom Sarapol were charged by the agency, together with 13 other persons including former director-general of the External Trade Department Manas Sroypol who was involved in negotiations to sell rice to two Chinese state enterprises on government-to-government contracts. http://pattayatoday.net/news/thailand-news/yingluck-to-be-probed-ex-ministers-charged-on-rice-scheme/

You posted a totally irrelevant extract. Has the case been indicted by the OAG or any courts have accepted the petition? Has the case gone through the judiciary process and accused convicted. The NACC is really not the poster boy of fair investigation.

[khunken]

Subsidies are subsidies. It's about working out whether she knew it was never going of be self financing or not. That is the lie.

Governments are not run like companies.

There we go again. That was NOT a subsidy!

The Yingluck Administration positioned their RPPS as self-financing requiring a 500 billion Baht REVOLVING" funds only. With that reasoning they even got away with leaving the financing out of the National Budget.

'revolving' as in pay out from it, restore with revenue from rice sales.

"A revolving fund is a fund or account that remains available to finance an organization's continuing operations without any fiscal year limitation, because the organization replenishes the fund by repaying money used from the account. Revolving funds have been used to support both government and non-profit operations."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolving_fund

Sorry Rubl but that's not the whole story. There is absolutely no doubt that the fund could never be self sustaining when the cost of inputs substantially exceeded the revenue from outputs.

Here is a better (broader) description of a revolving fund:

A revolving fund is a means by which Parliament provides continuing authorization for an operation that is funded completely by users, or partly by users and partly by subsidization (the latter usually taking the form of an annual appropriation.

See: http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/fm-gf/tools-outils/guides/rf-fr/rf-fr01-eng.asp

It comes from Canada where fiscal prudence is somewhat higher than it neighbour as well as Thailand.

"absolutely no doubt that the fund could never be self sustaining"

Might I add "... except in the explanations offered by the Yingluck Administration and a few posters here" ?

The Yingluck Administration let tthe BAAC set up this 500 billion Baht fund acting as guarantor. With the BAAC warning about the funds running empty, the Yingluck Administration let it add another 200 billion or so.. None of this financing has come from the National Budget.

Indeed, 'fiscal prudence' seems lost on the Yingluck Administration which in their blanket amnesty bill even covered their own two years in office. That's 'prudence' of another kind all together!

PS I striked out the "n" as I think that was a typo ?

Not a typo - same meaning in the sentence for both 'ever' and 'never'.

I agree with you that the funding as well as the maintenance of the fund was all smoke and mirrors. We both can hardly forget the under-the-carpet sweeping of the FIDF B1.14tn.

Only yesterday the new finance minister set about addressing the B500bn or so still outstanding (presumably to the BAAC) and planning for the disposal of the rice still in the warehouses.

[Old Man River]

Subsidies are subsidies. It's about working out whether she knew it was never going of be self financing or not. That is the lie.

Governments are not run like companies.

There we go again. That was NOT a subsidy!

The Yingluck Administration positioned their RPPS as self-financing requiring a 500 billion Baht REVOLVING" funds only. With that reasoning they even got away with leaving the financing out of the National Budget.

'revolving' as in pay out from it, restore with revenue from rice sales.

"A revolving fund is a fund or account that remains available to finance an organization's continuing operations without any fiscal year limitation, because the organization replenishes the fund by repaying money used from the account. Revolving funds have been used to support both government and non-profit operations."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolving_fund

Sorry Rubl but that's not the whole story. There is absolutely no doubt that the fund could never be self sustaining when the cost of inputs substantially exceeded the revenue from outputs.

Here is a better (broader) description of a revolving fund:

A revolving fund is a means by which Parliament provides continuing authorization for an operation that is funded completely by users, or partly by users and partly by subsidization (the latter usually taking the form of an annual appropriation.

See: http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/fm-gf/tools-outils/guides/rf-fr/rf-fr01-eng.asp

It comes from Canada where fiscal prudence is somewhat higher than it neighbour as well as Thailand.

"absolutely no doubt that the fund could never be self sustaining"

Might I add "... except in the explanations offered by the Yingluck Administration and a few posters here" ?

The Yingluck Administration let tthe BAAC set up this 500 billion Baht fund acting as guarantor. With the BAAC warning about the funds running empty, the Yingluck Administration let it add another 200 billion or so.. None of this financing has come from the National Budget.

Indeed, 'fiscal prudence' seems lost on the Yingluck Administration which in their blanket amnesty bill even covered their own two years in office. That's 'prudence' of another kind all together!

PS I striked out the "n" as I think that was a typo ?

It could be that they ended up buying more rice than they originally thought. For example, the Cambodian Rice Exporters Association said for the first 4 months of 2013, they had exported 14,250 tons of rice to Thailand, which placed Thailand for that period as Cambodia's 4th largest export market.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[ScreamingEagle101]

Personally I can understand your barely suppressed anger. I mean, obviously Ms. Yingluck knew nothing,

She was only chairwoman of the National Rice Board, PM of her own, handpicked cabinet and as she stated during the last censure debate only she and no one else was in charge. How can she be 'only negligent' ? Between 500 and 700++billion Baht lost, but the PM obviously knowing nothing, being 'innocent as a babe', a cute one as well as some have it.

Anger, No. Resignation, Yes. Thailand has been through this before, except last time the organ grinders monkey was called the AEC.

You'll keep on posting about 500++ or 700++ billion baht lost but at the end of the day that is what the rice price pledging scheme cost the State. It was not lost but of course that sounds sexier and implies 500++ or whatever lost to corruption.

It helps to remember that the rice scheme was supposed to make a profit. The Boss, a self described master of commodities trading, intended to hold Thai rice off the market by warehousing it, then sell it into higher prices caused by "scarcity." I will say one thing positive about the boss, after losing 100 million dollars trading oil futures he is no longer willing to play the commodities market with his own money. Much better to lose the public's coin.

Anyway you look at the plan, its intentions, and the result, this fiasco has set the nation back. Lost is its place and reputation as a top world producer of quality rice, as well as hundreds of billions of bhat. For all the bhat spent the farmer received only more suffering at the hands of the elite. Quality rice was produced by Thai farmers, or Cambodian, and delivered to the government warehouses. The farmers were not generally promptly paid and the rice was allowed to rot in warehouses through negligence. Instead of collecting top dollar the rice will be sold as low quality for substantially less money. So, factually, money has been lost no matter how red your glasses are.

The real crime here is becoming apparent, Yingluck is going to skate free. That was pretty much clear when she decided to return after visiting the Boss for instructions. After 11 years in Thailand I am not in the least bit surprised. In Thailand the motto of the rich is "free as the birds fly." At least she doesn't hang out with rich people that drive their own cars, showing that she has some class.

[rubl]

Sorry Rubl but that's not the whole story. There is absolutely no doubt that the fund could never be self sustaining when the cost of inputs substantially exceeded the revenue from outputs.

Here is a better (broader) description of a revolving fund:

A revolving fund is a means by which Parliament provides continuing authorization for an operation that is funded completely by users, or partly by users and partly by subsidization (the latter usually taking the form of an annual appropriation.

See: http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/fm-gf/tools-outils/guides/rf-fr/rf-fr01-eng.asp

It comes from Canada where fiscal prudence is somewhat higher than it neighbour as well as Thailand.

"absolutely no doubt that the fund could never be self sustaining"

Might I add "... except in the explanations offered by the Yingluck Administration and a few posters here" ?

The Yingluck Administration let tthe BAAC set up this 500 billion Baht fund acting as guarantor. With the BAAC warning about the funds running empty, the Yingluck Administration let it add another 200 billion or so.. None of this financing has come from the National Budget.

Indeed, 'fiscal prudence' seems lost on the Yingluck Administration which in their blanket amnesty bill even covered their own two years in office. That's 'prudence' of another kind all together!

PS I striked out the "n" as I think that was a typo ?

It could be that they ended up buying more rice than they originally thought. For example, the Cambodian Rice Exporters Association said for the first 4 months of 2013, they had exported 14,250 tons of rice to Thailand, which placed Thailand for that period as Cambodia's 4th largest export market.

Well, with the government buying close to 40 million tonnes of paddy in 2011/2012 and 2012/2013 the amount quoted seems peanuts even if paddy to rice leads to 40% reduction.

[Robby nz]

It should be noted that the ex commerce minister has already been charged. (Excerpt)

Former commerce minister Boonsong Teriyapirom and ex-deputy commerce minister Poom Sarapol were charged by the agency, together with 13 other persons including former director-general of the External Trade Department Manas Sroypol who was involved in negotiations to sell rice to two Chinese state enterprises on government-to-government contracts. http://pattayatoday.net/news/thailand-news/yingluck-to-be-probed-ex-ministers-charged-on-rice-scheme/

You posted a totally irrelevant extract. Has the case been indicted by the OAG or any courts have accepted the petition? Has the case gone through the judiciary process and accused convicted. The NACC is really not the poster boy of fair investigation.

What makes you think it is irrelevant that the former commerce minister has already been charged ?

This thread is about his former secretary now being charged, the fact that the minister who was his boss has been charged for the same fake deals shows that the secretary has not been charged in isolation.

Getting ahead of yourself talking about going through the courts and being found guilty, things are not at that stage as yet.

Still cant get it through your head that the NACC has been investigating the rice scheme for around 2 years and now have got to the stage where the evidence they have collected is leading to charges.

2 years sounds quite a long time to conduct an investigation but I suppose the scheme has been ongoing for most of that time with new evidence emerging all the time.

It would seem that in red eyes anything that shows up corruption or negligence in their beloved PT govt is unfair.

[Robby nz]

Sorry Rubl but that's not the whole story. There is absolutely no doubt that the fund could never be self sustaining when the cost of inputs substantially exceeded the revenue from outputs.

Here is a better (broader) description of a revolving fund:

A revolving fund is a means by which Parliament provides continuing authorization for an operation that is funded completely by users, or partly by users and partly by subsidization (the latter usually taking the form of an annual appropriation.

See: http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/fm-gf/tools-outils/guides/rf-fr/rf-fr01-eng.asp

It comes from Canada where fiscal prudence is somewhat higher than it neighbour as well as Thailand.

"absolutely no doubt that the fund could never be self sustaining"

Might I add "... except in the explanations offered by the Yingluck Administration and a few posters here" ?

The Yingluck Administration let tthe BAAC set up this 500 billion Baht fund acting as guarantor. With the BAAC warning about the funds running empty, the Yingluck Administration let it add another 200 billion or so.. None of this financing has come from the National Budget.

Indeed, 'fiscal prudence' seems lost on the Yingluck Administration which in their blanket amnesty bill even covered their own two years in office. That's 'prudence' of another kind all together!

PS I striked out the "n" as I think that was a typo ?

It could be that they ended up buying more rice than they originally thought. For example, the Cambodian Rice Exporters Association said for the first 4 months of 2013, they had exported 14,250 tons of rice to Thailand, which placed Thailand for that period as Cambodia's 4th largest export market.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

That is an entirely different thing all together, these numbers are for the legal export of the finished product from Cambodia to Thailand.

There was also the illegal shipments of paddy from Cambodia as well as other countries.

A question could however be asked as to why Thailand needed to buy rice from Cambodia when there were warehouses full of the stuff.

[halloween]

That is an entirely different thing all together, these numbers are for the legal export of the finished product from Cambodia to Thailand.

There was also the illegal shipments of paddy from Cambodia as well as other countries.

A question could however be asked as to why Thailand needed to buy rice from Cambodia when there were warehouses full of the stuff.

The answer is simple; the Cambodian rice was cheaper and allowed for a bigger profit. Nothing personal, just business.

Of course why the government didn't see that this would happen as they priced themselves out of the market, and do something to prevent imports, is another matter entirely. But as they foresaw almost none of the results of Takky's little scheme, it's hardly surprising.

[Eric Loh]

That is an entirely different thing all together, these numbers are for the legal export of the finished product from Cambodia to Thailand.

There was also the illegal shipments of paddy from Cambodia as well as other countries.

A question could however be asked as to why Thailand needed to buy rice from Cambodia when there were warehouses full of the stuff.

The answer is simple; the Cambodian rice was cheaper and allowed for a bigger profit. Nothing personal, just business.

Of course why the government didn't see that this would happen as they priced themselves out of the market, and do something to prevent imports, is another matter entirely. But as they foresaw almost none of the results of Takky's little scheme, it's hardly surprising.

I see you don't go to the market at all. Most Cambodian rice are sold at low price at about 80-85B per 5 kg and a favourite with the low wage earners and of course the large contingent of Cambodian workers.

[halloween]

The answer is simple; the Cambodian rice was cheaper and allowed for a bigger profit. Nothing personal, just business.

Of course why the government didn't see that this would happen as they priced themselves out of the market, and do something to prevent imports, is another matter entirely. But as they foresaw almost none of the results of Takky's little scheme, it's hardly surprising.

I see you don't go to the market at all. Most Cambodian rice are sold at low price at about 80-85B per 5 kg and a favourite with the low wage earners and of course the large contingent of Cambodian workers.

You see nothing at all, i go to the market and buy the brand my wife likes because it all tastes the same to me. Did I not just post that Cambodian rice was cheaper? Has it not got more expensive as the price of Thai rice rose (aka increased profit)? Do you think that Cambodian rice is never sold as Thai rice?