Obama's 'core coalition' won't defeat ISIS 'monster' without Mideast nations

[webfact]

Obama's 'core coalition' won't defeat ISIS 'monster' without Mideast nations
By Josh Levs, CNN

(CNN) -- A 10-nation group the Obama administration has gathered to fight ISIS could help, but more important will be the nations that surround the Islamist militant group's self-declared "caliphate," experts say.

After meetings at last week's NATO Summit, U.S. Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel spoke of a newly formed "core coalition." President Barack Obama said it would take on ISIS. The nations are Australia, Britain, Canada, Denmark, France, Germany, Italy, Poland and Turkey, in addition to the United States.

Turkey, a NATO member, is the only nation in that group located close to ISIS, which is also known as ISIL and calls itself the Islamic State. It has taken over parts of Iraq and Syria.

This month the United States plans to ask the U.N. Security Council to support a resolution aimed at cracking down on foreign fighters in ISIS, a U.S. official said.

Full story: http://edition.cnn.com/2014/09/08/world/meast/isis-mideast-nations/index.html


-- CNN 2014-09-09

[PiPiFFS]

Why does the West have to get involved ? Where is Iran, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait etc ? These are the countries that should be tackling these religious savages. The only way Muslim extremists like IS are ever going to be stopped is by fellow Muslims to rise up united and condemn these savages as unIslamic.

I read today there is a Twitter campaign now running with people burning the IS flag and posting the video online. How about another campaign asking these monsters why, if they are proud to be doing Gods work do they all to a coward hide behind a mask ?

[Ulysses G.]

Why does the West have to get involved ?

Because it will not happen without us and especially the USA, but I agree that Muslim countries should help. I don't trust Obama to do it effectively, but we can't wait two more years until he is not in office.

Edited September 9, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[ttthailand]

Why does the West have to get involved ? Where is Iran, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait etc ? These are the countries that should be tackling these religious savages. The only way Muslim extremists like IS are ever going to be stopped is by fellow Muslims to rise up united and condemn these savages as unIslamic.

I read today there is a Twitter campaign now running with people burning the IS flag and posting the video online. How about another campaign asking these monsters why, if they are proud to be doing Gods work do they all to a coward hide behind a mask ?

I agree, why do these people wear masks if they believe in their cause. Be proud and show you face to god and the world. It is all a bunch of sh$t they are fighting for... Most of these guys are gay who want to be with other men, ugly and or stupid and can not get a woman without force or are there for the money. It has little to do about god....

[Credo]

Why does the West have to get involved ?

Most of the countries in the Middle East have to use their military strength to suppress their own people. Those people who don't like the oppression leave and join organizations like ISIS or AQ.

[shirtless]

Ban travel to and from the middle east and let the camel jockeys sort it out themselves

[Steely Dan]

Why does the West have to get involved ?

Most of the countries in the Middle East have to use their military strength to suppress their own people. Those people who don't like the oppression leave and join organizations like ISIS or AQ.

Indeed the Saudi King asked one of the Countries top Imams to issue a condemnation of IS, the trouble is within Saudi Arabia itself a recent opinion poll found 92% believed IS were following Islamic law and were true to Islamic values. I infer from this the distinct likelihood that Countries surrounding the Caliphate are only stopped from joining it by their own military.

To defeat IS I think the most important thing is to recognize its true nature, which is pure undiluted Islam. The battle is one of ideas, too late to fight a conventional geographical campaign, we have been infiltrated far too much for that.

[squarethecircle]

"To defeat IS I think the most important thing is to recognize its true nature, which is pure undiluted Islam. The battle is one of ideas, too late to fight a conventional geographical campaign, we have been infiltrated far too much for that. "

Probably best way to defeat it is to set up a distinctive wall. Israel is of course off limits. Kurdistan is off-limits, US and other countries should arm them, maybe the Shias too though that might backfire. Let them have their pure Islamic government and enjoy the ensuing backwardsness. That may be the best way to defeat Islamists/Islam, to let it fully emerge so people can see the true colours.

[canuckamuck]

Welcome to the quagmire.

Military industrial complex has just got another 10 year free ride.

[bartender100]

Its all still mostly about oil, USA would not care about Kurdistan if it was not the new frontier with billions of barrels being found recently

[Christie Paul]

Trained in Jordan by the CIA, funded by US proxies in Saudi, busily selling two to three million dollars worth of oil a day and led by Abu Bakr - al - Baghdadi, aka Simon Elliot, a well known Mossad agent. ISIS is the empires dream terror machine - be afraid, give up your rights, terror, terror, terror, the new arab bogey man is on the scene. Looks like we're going to have to bomb everyone now.

[Christie Paul]

"To defeat IS I think the most important thing is to recognize its true nature, which is pure undiluted Islam. The battle is one of ideas, too late to fight a conventional geographical campaign, we have been infiltrated far too much for that. "

Probably best way to defeat it is to set up a distinctive wall. Israel is of course off limits. Kurdistan is off-limits, US and other countries should arm them, maybe the Shias too though that might backfire. Let them have their pure Islamic government and enjoy the ensuing backwardsness. That may be the best way to defeat Islamists/Islam, to let it fully emerge so people can see the true colours.

ISIS is not Islamic - its not Arab.

It's theatre.

[dexterm]

Why does the West have to get involved ? Where is Iran, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait etc ? These are the countries that should be tackling these religious savages. The only way Muslim extremists like IS are ever going to be stopped is by fellow Muslims to rise up united and condemn these savages as unIslamic.

I

It’s a funny old game this geopolitics isn’t it?

A short while ago Iran and their Shia allies Hezbollah were all part of the axis of evil about to be bombed by USA if Israel and Congress had gotten their way. While the UK Saudi Arabia and CIA were feeding arms to Syrian rebels to use against Assad (funny coincidence Congress wanted him bombed too) and turning a blind eye to volunteers from Europe and USA joining the rebels. Now it turns out the rebels hate the west more than they hate Assad. So about face everyone.. we have new bedfellows.

"The animals, watching through the window, realize with a start that, as they look around the room of the farmhouse, they can no longer distinguish which of the card players are pigs and which are human beings." George Orwell (Animal Farm)

It wouldn’t perhaps all be so difficult to fathom if Kurdistan’s main export were asparagus.

Edited September 9, 2014 by dexterm

[Ulysses G.]

Trained in Jordan by the CIA, funded by US proxies in Saudi, busily selling two to three million dollars worth of oil a day and led by Abu Bakr - al - Baghdadi, aka Simon Elliot, a well known Mossad agent. is on the scene. Looks like we're going to have to bomb everyone now.

Another loony CONSPIRACY THEORY.

Inside jobs and Israeli stooges: why is the Muslim world in thrall to conspiracy theories?

Did you know that Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, the leader of Isis, was trained by Mossad and the CIA? Were you aware that his real name isn’t Ibrahim Awwad Ibrahim Ali al-Badri al-Samarrai but Simon Elliot? Or that he’s a Jewish actor who was recruited by the Israelis to play the part of the world’s most wanted terrorist?

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/09/inside-jobs-and-israeli-stooges-why-muslim-world-thrall-conspiracy-theories

Edited September 9, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[Christie Paul]

Trained in Jordan by the CIA, funded by US proxies in Saudi, busily selling two to three million dollars worth of oil a day and led by Abu Bakr - al - Baghdadi, aka Simon Elliot, a well known Mossad agent. is on the scene. Looks like we're going to have to bomb everyone now.

Another loony CONSPIRACY THEORY.

Inside jobs and Israeli stooges: why is the Muslim world in thrall to conspiracy theories?

Did you know that Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, the leader of Isis, was trained by Mossad and the CIA? Were you aware that his real name isn’t Ibrahim Awwad Ibrahim Ali al-Badri al-Samarrai but Simon Elliot? Or that he’s a Jewish actor who was recruited by the Israelis to play the part of the world’s most wanted terrorist?

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/09/inside-jobs-and-israeli-stooges-why-muslim-world-thrall-conspiracy-theories

New statesman....more like old bone head.

But maybe you're right, maybe powerful people don't collaborate and commit crimes. Its possible.

Maybe the persistent Middle East disruption has nothing to do with the West's urge for the control of oil and to maintain the petro-dollar?

Maybe these Arabs are all just crazy mothers.

Maybe the Vietnamese did attack the US in the Gulf of Tonkin. Maybe Poland did attack Germany. Maybe Communists did burn down the Reichstag. Maybe building 7 (the third tower to collapse into its own foot print, despite not being hit by a plane) fell down for perfectly legitimate reasons. And maybe the fact that George Bush senior and Osama bin Doo-daa's brother, both sit on the board of the Carlyle Group is just coincidence. It's all coincidence.

So I guess one can be a coincidentalist or a loony conspiracy theorist?

I guess it depends on how far one is willing to push mathematical probability.

[Publicus]

Trained in Jordan by the CIA, funded by US proxies in Saudi, busily selling two to three million dollars worth of oil a day and led by Abu Bakr - al - Baghdadi, aka Simon Elliot, a well known Mossad agent. is on the scene. Looks like we're going to have to bomb everyone now.

Another loony CONSPIRACY THEORY.

Inside jobs and Israeli stooges: why is the Muslim world in thrall to conspiracy theories?

Did you know that Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, the leader of Isis, was trained by Mossad and the CIA? Were you aware that his real name isn’t Ibrahim Awwad Ibrahim Ali al-Badri al-Samarrai but Simon Elliot? Or that he’s a Jewish actor who was recruited by the Israelis to play the part of the world’s most wanted terrorist?

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/09/inside-jobs-and-israeli-stooges-why-muslim-world-thrall-conspiracy-theories

Good question and it's principally because the Muslim world is The Old World.

The world that made no distinction between that which was Caesar's and that which was God's.

No (European) Enlightenment, no Renaissance, no Age of Exploration, Age of Science; Industrial Revolution.

No Rights of Man French Revolution and no American Revolution in which all men are created equal.

Nothing to break from the Old World past.

These people continue to be Old World losers and the ISIL are classic cut your heart out Old World barbarians.

[Publicus]

ISIS must be confronted: Arab League chief

The Arab League's Secretary-General Nabil Elaraby speaks to Nasr al-Hariri, secretary-general of the Syrian National Coalition, at the League's headquarters in Cairo September 6, 2014. (AP Photo/Amr Nabil)

Agence France Presse

CAIRO: Arab League Chief Nabil Elaraby Sunday called for a military and political confrontation with ISIS jihadists and other militants he said threatened the existence of Arab states.

"What is needed is a clear decision for a comprehensive confrontation, militarily and politically," Elaraby said a day after he and U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry discussed taking action against the jihadist group that controls parts of Syria and Iraq.

.An Arab League diplomat told reporters that the ministers were considering adopting a resolution on combating ISIS and "coordinating with the United States to confront this terrorist organization."

Read more: http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Middle-East/2014/Sep-07/269827-isis-must-be-confronted-militarily-and-politically-arab-league-chief.ashx#ixzz3CqQcFyum


The ministerial conference produced a statement after this guy spoke that said blah blah blah.

However, from reading the article I got the sense all but a few of the AL member states are likely to vote to support the UNSC resolution the U.S. and core allies are preparing to authorize the coalition to use a measure of military force against ISIS.

Elaraby points out to the minority grouping of AL member states who holler about not interfering in a country's "internal affairs," that the resolution will pass and open the area to a swarm of foreign forces from outside the ME. Nothing is guaranteed but if the Arab states want to have some say in the upcoming military and political campaign against ISIS and in the aftermath of it they're going to have to be among the players.

[Steely Dan]

Trained in Jordan by the CIA, funded by US proxies in Saudi, busily selling two to three million dollars worth of oil a day and led by Abu Bakr - al - Baghdadi, aka Simon Elliot, a well known Mossad agent. is on the scene. Looks like we're going to have to bomb everyone now.

Another loony CONSPIRACY THEORY.

Inside jobs and Israeli stooges: why is the Muslim world in thrall to conspiracy theories?

Did you know that Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, the leader of Isis, was trained by Mossad and the CIA? Were you aware that his real name isn’t Ibrahim Awwad Ibrahim Ali al-Badri al-Samarrai but Simon Elliot? Or that he’s a Jewish actor who was recruited by the Israelis to play the part of the world’s most wanted terrorist?

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/09/inside-jobs-and-israeli-stooges-why-muslim-world-thrall-conspiracy-theories

It sure beats taking responsibility for your own actions.

[Ulysses G.]

Maybe these Arabs are all just crazy mothers.

Maybe?

[ABCer]

The greater this 'coalition' is going to be the greater will be potential leaks to ISIS.

Not saying that the leaks cannot originate from USA itself.

Note, I do not mention any names.

Each coalition country has a huge powerful and totally committed 'fifth column'.

Obama stated that now he has the authority to bomb. Does he have the much needed guts to fight dirty?

The 'fifth column' is not the only weak spot in this coalition position. 'Political correctness' is another one.

'Good' cannot fight 'Evil' with clean hands and good methods. To win it has to lower itself to the 'Evil' level.

And than you see the pig faces as per G. Orwell.

And finally, - wasting years and hundreds of millions of $$$ to kill one man (Osama) is terribly ineffective.

Remember that 15% of 1 Billion is 150,000,000 ! Do we have enough money?

[canuckamuck]

The amount of people that will need to be killed to stop IS, and all its avatars is much higher than the political will of western culture will bear. Once social media starts showing the carnage the politicians will start to back peddle. The west is too liberal to win wars any more. They would have a chance if they could do it by drone. But IMO this one needs to be boots on the ground.

The enemy cannot be eliminated at some headquarters, it can regenerate itself with many heads.

[ABCer]

What happens to my posts in this topic?

[Steely Dan]

The amount of people that will need to be killed to stop IS, and all its avatars is much higher than the political will of western culture will bear. Once social media starts showing the carnage the politicians will start to back peddle. The west is too liberal to win wars any more. They would have a chance if they could do it by drone. But IMO this one needs to be boots on the ground.

The enemy cannot be eliminated at some headquarters, it can regenerate itself with many heads.

Indeed there are several problems. How can the U.S spearhead action against ISIS when they were instrumental in removing a secular despot in Libya in favour of Islamists, they nearly repeated the trick in Egypt before the Muslim brotherhood were kicked out and ditto Syria saved thus far by outside intervention?

Then add to the coalition European nations, who are military Pygmies scarcely able to even defend themselves. Finally we have sundry Arab monarchies and dictatorships who can't be seen too overtly tackling IS lest their populations depose them for taking the side of the Kuffar.

Of course any Arab contingent fighting IS will be misrepresented in the West as the moderate majority, this is a dangerous delusion though as the actions of the likes of Turkey and Qatar demonstrate.

[arjunadawn]

"To defeat IS I think the most important thing is to recognize its true nature, which is pure undiluted Islam. The battle is one of ideas, too late to fight a conventional geographical campaign, we have been infiltrated far too much for that. "

Probably best way to defeat it is to set up a distinctive wall. Israel is of course off limits. Kurdistan is off-limits, US and other countries should arm them, maybe the Shias too though that might backfire. Let them have their pure Islamic government and enjoy the ensuing backwardsness. That may be the best way to defeat Islamists/Islam, to let it fully emerge so people can see the true colours.

ISIS is not Islamic - its not Arab.

It's theatre.

This is a kinda brilliant point. However, at the operational level- the individual- it is Islamic. But as a blunt instrument, a tool, it is theater. Wow! Great observation.

[arjunadawn]

The amount of people that will need to be killed to stop IS, and all its avatars is much higher than the political will of western culture will bear. Once social media starts showing the carnage the politicians will start to back peddle. The west is too liberal to win wars any more. They would have a chance if they could do it by drone. But IMO this one needs to be boots on the ground.

The enemy cannot be eliminated at some headquarters, it can regenerate itself with many heads.

Agreed! The reverse side of this issue is who to kill? At what point does the fielded jihadi end and civilians begin? What is defined as the battle space- sand dunes? Wadis? Villages? Mosques? Who are the targets- those with AKs? Imams? Women on sex jihad? Women?

Without the will to win this cannot be won. Without the courage to define, plans of action cannot be drawn up. As long as those who send soldiers to battle jihadis, while all the while affirming IS and the like do not represent Islam, there will be loss, and advancement of global jihad.

What will the outcome of this endeavor be? Recent history is relevant because recent middle eastern/central asian affairs are directly related. The outcome will be further advancement of radical islam, further marginalization of "moderate" islam, and further destruction of regional strongmen who have kept their jihadi populations under their thumbs. Obama supports Islam in its current, Third Jihad. A cursory look at every single muslim action this president has been involved with has advanced radical islam- every single one of them!

[Steely Dan]

The amount of people that will need to be killed to stop IS, and all its avatars is much higher than the political will of western culture will bear. Once social media starts showing the carnage the politicians will start to back peddle. The west is too liberal to win wars any more. They would have a chance if they could do it by drone. But IMO this one needs to be boots on the ground.

The enemy cannot be eliminated at some headquarters, it can regenerate itself with many heads.

Agreed! The reverse side of this issue is who to kill? At what point does the fielded jihadi end and civilians begin? What is defined as the battle space- sand dunes? Wadis? Villages? Mosques? Who are the targets- those with AKs? Imams? Women on sex jihad? Women?

Without the will to win this cannot be won. Without the courage to define, plans of action cannot be drawn up. As long as those who send soldiers to battle jihadis, while all the while affirming IS and the like do not represent Islam, there will be loss, and advancement of global jihad.

What will the outcome of this endeavor be? Recent history is relevant because recent middle eastern/central asian affairs are directly related. The outcome will be further advancement of radical islam, further marginalization of "moderate" islam, and further destruction of regional strongmen who have kept their jihadi populations under their thumbs. Obama supports Islam in its current, Third Jihad. A cursory look at every single muslim action this president has been involved with has advanced radical islam- every single one of them!

To be accurate the Obama administration has favored Islam over the monarchies and dictators who kept Islam in check; there is no 'moderate' Islam according to Erdogan, just Islam. I venture the same principle applies to radical Islam. Obama is currently doing the rounds of the Arab states trying to cobble together a coalition of the unwilling.

By the time the Nobel peace prize winner leaves office I wouldn't be surprised if there is a Caliphate stretching from Iraq to Nigeria, where the under reported Boko Haram are busy carving out a Caliphate of their own. Meanwhile we are still being told this is nothing to do with Islam, the cognitive dissonance here is something to behold.

As Sam Harris put it, we are sleepwalking towards Armageddon.

http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/sleepwalking-toward-armageddon

[Asiantravel]

It seems Israel has decided if you can't beat them join them !

US Army Report:ISIS and Israel working together to counter Assad to cement Israels Energy Grab

http://wearechange.org/us-army-reportisis-israel-working-together-counter-assad-cement-israels-energy-grab/