Germany: Former Nazi guard charged over 300,000 Auschwitz murders

[awayego]

For good sake, he's 93 years old, stop talking about all this ww2. Hunting old people. He's properly already on the way to the die.

There must be no time limit on this or any other atrocity or crime against humanity. This guy has had his freedom and normal life for seventy years or so - more than any of his alleged victims or, importantly, their families and survivors.

If guilty, HIS family should know about it and suffer the shame of it.

So what if he is half dead already? Justice may have been slow to catch up with him, and others, but justice must be seen to be done, if only as a warning to those who may think there is a universal 'statute of limitation'.

But maybe it would be more wise to focus on the crimes which are done today and which could be stopped just now and not in 70 years.

But there all of these "good people" who want to jail someone 93 years old are silent....

I agree wholeheartedly with the first part of what you say.

However, I can't agree that "good people" remain silent about it, nor should they.

It is a pity that their voice is not made louder by more joining in, "good" or "not good"!

[johna]

Don't bother debating with holocaust deniers. It's like debating with tin foil hat conspiracy theorists.

Right, lets skip the trial, go straight to lynching this Nazi.

All you need to know about history will be told to you by the Holocaust Industry.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

None of the Nazi's at Auschwitz knew what was going on.

They were all too busy baking cakes for the prisoners......the angels that they were.

This 'animal' should not be allowed to spend one hour at peace now that he has been found?

Cold cell, plank board bed, no blankets, no shoes or socks and 1 bowl of cabbage water soup a day.

Never see or hear from any member of his family ever again

His departure from this life should be the same as those who died at Auschwitz.

I would settle for dragging his name through the mud and letting his grand kids know what he really did in the war.

I thought he was accused of being a baggage handler at a railway station?

I imagine his grandkids would be saying "so what!"

[simple1]

JT, one question : do you think the major part of Jews that were in Germany in 1930 were orthodox Jews?

Hitler's holocaust of six million Jews was not only Germany, but all over Europe.

http://www.ushmm.org/learn/introduction-to-the-holocaust

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/media_nm.php?ModuleId=10005143&MediaId=3372

He also intended to go into Palestine when he could but starting losing the war. Anybody with "Jewish blood" of a certain level was a target. It was not as much about religion or level of observance as about RACISM and GENOCIDE. I don't know the exact percentage of assimilated Jews vs. ultra religious ones in Germany at the the time except that I do know many German Jews were very assimilated. I am not sure why you are even asking this. Perhaps if you're so interested you can research it and tell us.

Of course Jews were not the only target for genocide by Hitler, but they were the primary target.

Bit off topic.

Russian POWs were regular used for testing the most efficient methods for industralised murder of the Jews, eventually an estimated 3.3+ million Russian POWs (approx 5% were Jews) died, mainly from starvation, but many were executed and by other methods.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_mistreatment_of_Soviet_prisoners_of_war

The Nazis had planned for approx 30 million Russian civilians to die from starvation and so on if they acheived their objective to permantly occupy, for German settlement, the main areas of Soviet economic production.

Edited September 17, 2014 by simple1

[Ulysses G.]

Drafted soldiers do not have choices.

I have not seen any evidence that he was a "drafted soldier", but I would imagine the prosecutor has taken that into consideration and - if he was - it would certainly brought up at his trail.

Edited September 17, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[goatfarmer]

Here is part of an interview with Groening.

As I said in a previous post, I think Groening will welcome the trial.

[goatfarmer]

...and reflections of historian Laurence Rees, on his interview with Groening:

http://books.google.co.th/books?id=uKnLbErmfCQC&pg=PA17&lpg=PA17&dq=rees+oskar+groening&source=bl&ots=VVHG0Yd0iP&sig=KFmCqM_pufEm8dIL4sTzQRx62PQ&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Hg0ZVPTlDMijugSb_YCYDA&ved=0CFcQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q&f=false

[Ulysses G.]

Well there goes the speculation about him being a conscript. According to that interview, he was a committed Nazi who volunteered for the SS and an anti-Semite who was not against the final-solution - although he he says that he did ask to be transfered as he did not like being part of carrying it out.

He seems to have changed his views, but that will all come out at his trial.

Edited September 17, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[Rimmer]

An off topic baiting post and two replies to it have been removed

[h90]

Members of my family where murdered in Auschwitz, and I cannot forget the atrocities, and forgive the murderers.

To blame a young German soldier serving in the concentration camp for those crimes, doesn't make any sense. German soldiers were drafted, and were following orders liike any soldier do. Are thousand of ex Nazi officers and ex professional soldiers that never were charged for any crime. Many of those gaves orders to kill civilians, or did it directly.

Drafted soldiers do not have choices. Recusing orders or deserting means jail or dead, specially during war. Drafted soldiers are sending to kill people and/or to die without any other options.

How about soldiers that are paid volunteers to do it...like in many World Armies, like the US Army?

Those had other options, but those found an "ideal" or a "good reason" to be murderers in exchange of a job.

Sorry if this offend some veterans of wars, but I am kinf of one too. a volunteer in civil services in 1967. I am glad that never had to shoot anybody, and I had the option to recuse if was order to do it. This German soldier didn't, and I am sure, its living the last 70 years with bad memories.

You exclude propaganda. I am sure many volunteers (and I don't mean Germany or USA, I mean in general) believe they do something good, something heroic. Listen to the war propaganda old one or current one.

Never is it...lets attack a peaceful country and kill some civilians. They always believe to defend their country or their families, if it was in Poland or in Iraq....always the others started and "we" defend ourself. Keep also in mind people usually join young and in the army they don't get any critical opinions.

They tried to brainwash us when I was drafted into the army....and it worked on a few people who were normally reasonable.

Read the WW2 propaganda and keep in mind there is no internet or independent news, everyone is poor, uneducated and someone comes and fixes the things......Than in the army people get brainwashed....and it works....

[hard124get]

For good sake, he's 93 years old, stop talking about all this ww2. Hunting old people. He's properly already on the way to the die.

There is no time limit for the atrocities that were committed during WW2 by the Nazi party. It's a shame they didn't find out sooner, but at the same time, he had to live with his actions all these years.

Either you have no concept of history and or you were never touched by what happened then.

Keep teaching, never forget, every child should know, or history has a way of repeating itself.

Is there a time limit for other atrocities ? Or just for WWII?

[hard124get]

Read "The Holocaust Industry" by Norman Finklestein whose parents were both in Auschwitz. This is more Zionist propaganda to justify war crimes that are being committed TODAY !

[JacChang]

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Wasn't he just taking orders?

Then who wants to be soldiers?

Blame the head, don't blame the ants.

Soldiers are not required to follow illegal orders. Those that do are as guilty as those who give them those orders.

Under those circumstances, a soldier who refuse those orders would easily be court marshaled or given death right there. The whole organization was a crime, if the soldier enjoyed or hated doing what he did, that's another matter. I still would blame the head, and not the soldiers. Of course, we could also say, rather have the soldier be given a death penalty for million other innocent lives to be saved.

[Jingthing]

The German authorities have decided to charge him.

So send him to trial and see what happens.

There are WITNESSES.

People take everything he says, a former SS NAZI as the full truth and final truth about his actions.

Why would you do that?

Let the German justice system take the whole picture into account including evidence they now have and witness statements.

The German authorities would not be pursuing this if they did not think they had sufficient evidence to convict.

Let the process play out.

Edited September 17, 2014 by Jingthing

[Ulysses G.]

Read "The Holocaust Industry" by Norman Finklestein whose parents were both in Auschwitz. This is more Zionist propaganda to justify war crimes that are being committed TODAY !

Finkelstein describes himself as "an old-fashioned communist" and others describe him as a holocaust denier. No one takes him seriously outside of the lunatic fringe.

[Pakboong]

Many of us know we cannot defy the absolute laws of math and science. If the guy arrived on the first day of May and left on the last day of June that would have been averaging 5,000 deaths a day for the 61 day period. Auschwitz had 52 muffles at one time but never more than 52. It took 35kg of coal and approximately an hour to finish one cremation. If the muffles operated 24/7 that would be a max of 1248 per 24 hour period. This is the stuff that gives the Holocaust Deniers their purpose. I am pretty sure that the dumbest Nazi could figure out how many could be cremated in an hour.

Edited September 17, 2014 by Pakboong

[hard124get]

For good sake, he's 93 years old, stop talking about all this ww2. Hunting old people. He's properly already on the way to the die.

What does being old have to do with getting away accessory to mass murder ?

As for the 300,000 killed in the gas chambers here is just one example of that in doubt According to the Red Cross, Though many many people supposedly died in the gas chambers, not one body has ever been autopsied and found to have died of gas poisoning. We have been shown piles of bodies from World War II, but most of these persons died of typhus or starvation or simply killed by soldiers in camps usually by firearm Nuremberg evidence supporting witness claims should be packed full of gassed bodies to present as evidence, after all there was apparently no shortage of victims to Zyclon B and for decades we have had the technology to do these tests on victims even bones yet not one body has ever been discovered nor presented at any war crime trial

it is questionable about the gas chambers if even there or were connected since the Russians actually built the current smoke stack and supposed chambers, which isnt even connected to the building and added the roof hatches, POST war. There was an oven section for cremation but the numbers claimed to be cremated in large quantities is physically and logistically impossible.

im not saying mass murders didnt happen but all my research ive done into Auschwitz including having been there 3 times does not corroborate the claims, it was a work and even death camp yes but the gas chambers mass killings is imo highly doubtful and totally unproven with even one piece of evidence regarding gassings there.

Dead is dead, 300,000 is still that number dead and no matter the age of anyone involved they should if alive stand trial but the manner claimed is unfortunately/fortunately ? now very questionable regarding solid fact.

On tv, just a week ago, a witness spoke about the gas chambers.

I'm from Denmark, and yes there are chambers. We has a place in Denmark called froslev camp, this was a place where the nazi was keeping people from the resistance in Denmark. Judi's people and so on, and later transported to Poland.

there were no gas chambers at the froslev camp

[carstenp]

For good sake, he's 93 years old, stop talking about all this ww2. Hunting old people. He's properly already on the way to the die.

What does being old have to do with getting away accessory to mass murder ?

As for the 300,000 killed in the gas chambers here is just one example of that in doubt According to the Red Cross, Though many many people supposedly died in the gas chambers, not one body has ever been autopsied and found to have died of gas poisoning. We have been shown piles of bodies from World War II, but most of these persons died of typhus or starvation or simply killed by soldiers in camps usually by firearm Nuremberg evidence supporting witness claims should be packed full of gassed bodies to present as evidence, after all there was apparently no shortage of victims to Zyclon B and for decades we have had the technology to do these tests on victims even bones yet not one body has ever been discovered nor presented at any war crime trial

it is questionable about the gas chambers if even there or were connected since the Russians actually built the current smoke stack and supposed chambers, which isnt even connected to the building and added the roof hatches, POST war. There was an oven section for cremation but the numbers claimed to be cremated in large quantities is physically and logistically impossible.

im not saying mass murders didnt happen but all my research ive done into Auschwitz including having been there 3 times does not corroborate the claims, it was a work and even death camp yes but the gas chambers mass killings is imo highly doubtful and totally unproven with even one piece of evidence regarding gassings there.

Dead is dead, 300,000 is still that number dead and no matter the age of anyone involved they should if alive stand trial but the manner claimed is unfortunately/fortunately ? now very questionable regarding solid fact.

On tv, just a week ago, a witness spoke about the gas chambers.

I'm from Denmark, and yes there are chambers. We has a place in Denmark called froslev camp, this was a place where the nazi was keeping people from the resistance in Denmark. Judi's people and so on, and later transported to Poland.

there were no gas chambers at the froslev camp

Your are correct, that's why I was writing saying transported from there

[tw25rw]

If he is accused of removing luggage and the such, he was probably compelled to do so under threat of being shot.

If he killed people, so be his punishment, but moving luggage. Hmmmmm

More like under threat of being sent to fight the Russians..

[Bwanatickey]

So the baggage is opened and valuables are seized, his work involved counting it all up and sending it onto to his superiors.

Only crime thus far was handling stolen goods.

The Banks that took this deposited money, is it the same as today, they are unaccountable.

[NeilSA1]

What a load of tripe! Let us try and not make this into a somehow 'romantic melodrama'. Your kines; "Not in Command", "Lived in his dreams", and the worst one of all... "was just following orders"? Besides you very poor English, you have shown yourself to be completely ignorant with regards to those who have numbers tattooed on their arms, who after having large families found themselves in '45 all alone. I would love to know from where you are from and how old you for maybe that would explain your arrogance!

First I'm 48 years old, lost 3 family members under the war, still has family members from that time,my father in laws lost he's brothers, but he has forgiven them. I think it's time to forgive. It's 70 years ago

About my English skill f$$$ you, I'm proud I'm able to write, speak, read more than one language

But I will forgive your arrogance

iamariva1957 ....... "Besides you very poor English" The pot calling the kettle black?

[smokie36]

What exactly are they going to do to this guy?

He was missed back in the late 1940's when the court would have sentenced him to death.....when was the last death sentence handed down for this out of interest?

[Kasset Tak]

There to many people who are only seeing this one sided!

If we can't forgive something that happened that long ago then we can not complain about North Korea jailing an American tourist, a veteran from the Korean war.

How can the people from Nagasaki and Hiroshima forgive the American airmen and soldiers responsible for dropping the bombs? Those where civilian targets and still today there are people dying because of the radiation.

How can the Palestinians forgive the English, UN and the Israelis after how they have been treated sins 1948?

When will the GIs from the Vietnam war be prosecuted for for their war crimes?

When will US pay back to Africa for all the slaves and people dying from their slave trade?

When will we start prosecuting the Russian war criminals?

My family didn't lose anyone in the war as Sweden where not a part of it but I have spent alot of time with a survivor from Birkenau in my youth, I have visit Auschwitz and I have talked to Polish, Russian, American and German war veterans from WWII.

I have friends from Palestine, Iraq, Vietnam, Bosnia and so on who have left their countries because of wars. When will those responsible and war criminals from those wars be prosecuted? How can my friends forgive and forget?! I don't know but most of them have forgiven and left it behind so that they have been able to move on with their life!

What we must do is forgive but not forget, otherwise there will never be an end to the reasons of wars. If we can still after 70 years hold a grudge about what happened in WWII then how can we complain that some parts of the world can't forgive how some countries have held them as colonies, treated them as slaves, stolen their heritage and natural resaurses and so on even if it's a hundred years or more?!

Edited September 18, 2014 by Kasset Tak

[siampolee]

Why not go the whole way and arrest and prosecute this lady for assisting in protecting Hitlers life etc.I am sure the rabid revenge seekers would be very happy to persecute a 96 year old lady.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/hitlers-food-taster-reveals-the-horrors-of-the-wolfs-lair-9738880.html

There is a big difference between justice and revenge,sad to say ''revenge seems to be the victor though.''

[Jingthing]

Why not go the whole way and arrest and prosecute this lady for assisting in protecting Hitlers life etc.I am sure the rabid revenge seekers would be very happy to persecute a 96 year old lady.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/hitlers-food-taster-reveals-the-horrors-of-the-wolfs-lair-9738880.html

There is a big difference between justice and revenge,sad to say ''revenge seems to be the victor though.''

You are sure? You are obviously wrong. Nobody has suggested that. Nobody would suggest that.

[siampolee]

Jingthing.

Where did I state that the move to prosecute or persecute the lady in question had been suggested ?

I merely asked or posed a question as to the ethics of the situation nothing more nothing less.Pure rhetoric

Please do not read meanings into comments or insinuate actions that are neither mentioned and in fact not there.

[Jingthing]

It was posted to absurdly suggest there some kind of equivalence between a food taster for Hitler and a Waffen SS Nazi death camp concentration guard.

[luk AJ]

He was a young soldier that time following direct orders. Refusing an order during war time is punished by death without trial. So tell me which option he should have choosen?

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[Jingthing]

He was a young soldier that time following direct orders. Refusing an order during war time is punished by death without trial. So tell me which option he should have choosen?

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

I don't think you get drafted into the Waffen SS. That was an elite group of Nazis. People who sought that.

[DisparateDan]

I spent my childhood thro' the blitz and relatives were imprisoned and killed

Forgive ? Forget ?..not me.

I served NS (7th Armoured Brigade) in Germany, near the place of surrender (Luneburg).Bergen Belsen was close by, not a bird not an insect. We wrecked as much of Germany as we could (Centurions and Conquerors), to make up what we had missed out on.

Discussing what to do with surrendered Gerrnan Officers a Russian General suggested they shoot 50,000, his American associate thought he wasn't serious, they had not lost 20 million.

I often reflect on our fate if WE had lost the war. Enslavement, genetic culling to say the least.

There was a list of people the Nazis had a special interest in for immediate capture.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Black_Book

With typical British irony many were disappointed not to be included.

Edited September 19, 2014 by DisparateDan