British backpacker arrested for suspected murder of fellow Britons at Koh Tao

[Whyamiandwhatamidoinghere]

Whether Christopher Ware is guilty or not his name and reputation is finished.

[mojorison]

Have to say before I unsubsribe from topic that the anti Thai rethoric is disappointing. Amazes me how people live here and derive enjoyment from taking the p##s out of the people they live with.

Think you've gone early with the rhetoric remark. Most folk who live here, (well me anyway), can think of dozens of wonderful reasons to live here... I can also think of a few things that really disturb me, (like road safety), but on balance it's pretty good. I think we can say that nowhere is perfect, and if its so bad then I don't have to stay... but it's not like that. I've been here over half my life, so I think I am entitled to look through the microscope.

[Whyamiandwhatamidoinghere]

Every freakin time I try to read another perspective of this story from and western news agency I get the dreaded This Site Is Blocked!!! The one thing I miss about Democracy and freedom of speech!

[alanrchase]

Have to say before I unsubsribe from topic that the anti Thai rethoric is disappointing. Amazes me how people live here and derive enjoyment from taking the p##s out of the people they live with.

Think you've gone early with the rhetoric remark. Most folk who live here, (well me anyway), can think of dozens of wonderful reasons to live here... I can also think of a few things that really disturb me, (like road safety), but on balance it's pretty good. I think we can say that nowhere is perfect, and if its so bad then I don't have to stay... but it's not like that. I've been here over half my life, so I think I am entitled to look through the microscope.

You reflect my attitude here. It is what it is. I am happy to accept it. Dangerous for a foreigner? Possibly.

Terrible crime was committed, who knows who did it?

Am I scared now? No. Wife amusingly (toungue in cheek) is the most dangerous person I know.

Horrible event, condolences to the family.

[wellred]

Hi just replying to this as I used to be a resident of Koh Tao for many many years until last year.

Quite a lot of posters don't really seem to know much about the island other than it being a beauty spot and great for diving. At risk of sounding negative there is a lot more to the place than this and its very diff to Phangan and Samui - it also really does have a very sinister side (as most places in the world do if you scratch the surface - like I say I'm not slating the island here but just giving an insight).

Firstly - the police don't have a CLUE nor care on the island. unless the bigger police come (normally to nick folk and extort money from them when they have gambling debts) from Samui or the mainland the po po don't give 2 shits about what goes on. Immigration come from time to time but the island is so small that the word gets round to anyone who shouldn't be there. Its pretty lawless to be frank.

Almost all the workers are Burmese in all the businesses. I'd actually go as far as to say there are more Burmese here than Thai (maybe). The Thai's that do live here are mostly from Bangkok. The gangs run the island without a doubt. There are no cars on Tao except for taxi's - the taxi drivers are run by the gangs and they hold the place to ransom with what they charge and how they operate - there have also been lots of reports of taxi drivers "touching up" shall we say drunk female holiday makers. I have also witnessed taxi drivers beating the sh*t out of tourists on many many an occasion. They wouldn't even allow an ambulance service which the farangs tried to set up and said it would be shot at if they did (they see it as taking business away from the taxis). There are lots of clinics (gang owned) but no doctors and no hospital. If you had an serious accident or say a stroke here you'd die put it that way as you wouldn't make the next island fast enough on a boat. Most of the bars etc are gang owned - the ones that aren't are often burned down if they start making money or people get shot at.

The bar the 2 victims were at (AC) is EXTREMELY dodgy past about 1am. Some really dangerous folk frequent there. The island is such a wonderful place but yes (as I say like most places) it gets to a certain time of night and all the freaks come out - couple this with drugs, drink, weapons and a police force who just sit in their office playing cards and you better off staying indoors! Anyway like I say - just an insight.

I'm not going to start speculating about what happened as there is too much of that going on here on this thread. Will just wait to see how this pans out.

RIP to these poor people I have thought of nothing else for the past few days - its just so shocking.

Thank you for taking the time to post this.

[andyIslandMan]

Hi just replying to this as I used to be a resident of Koh Tao for many many years until last year.

Quite a lot of posters don't really seem to know much about the island other than it being a beauty spot and great for diving. At risk of sounding negative there is a lot more to the place than this and its very diff to Phangan and Samui - it also really does have a very sinister side (as most places in the world do if you scratch the surface - like I say I'm not slating the island here but just giving an insight).

Firstly - the police don't have a CLUE nor care on the island. unless the bigger police come (normally to nick folk and extort money from them when they have gambling debts) from Samui or the mainland the po po don't give 2 shits about what goes on. Immigration come from time to time but the island is so small that the word gets round to anyone who shouldn't be there. Its pretty lawless to be frank.

Almost all the workers are Burmese in all the businesses. I'd actually go as far as to say there are more Burmese here than Thai (maybe). The Thai's that do live here are mostly from Bangkok. The gangs run the island without a doubt. There are no cars on Tao except for taxi's - the taxi drivers are run by the gangs and they hold the place to ransom with what they charge and how they operate - there have also been lots of reports of taxi drivers "touching up" shall we say drunk female holiday makers. I have also witnessed taxi drivers beating the sh*t out of tourists on many many an occasion. They wouldn't even allow an ambulance service which the farangs tried to set up and said it would be shot at if they did (they see it as taking business away from the taxis). There are lots of clinics (gang owned) but no doctors and no hospital. If you had an serious accident or say a stroke here you'd die put it that way as you wouldn't make the next island fast enough on a boat. Most of the bars etc are gang owned - the ones that aren't are often burned down if they start making money or people get shot at.

The bar the 2 victims were at (AC) is EXTREMELY dodgy past about 1am. Some really dangerous folk frequent there. The island is such a wonderful place but yes (as I say like most places) it gets to a certain time of night and all the freaks come out - couple this with drugs, drink, weapons and a police force who just sit in their office playing cards and you better off staying indoors! Anyway like I say - just an insight.

I'm not going to start speculating about what happened as there is too much of that going on here on this thread. Will just wait to see how this pans out.

RIP to these poor people I have thought of nothing else for the past few days - its just so shocking.

Yep. I also used to live on the rock and we left as it was no place to be, especially as a young family once you had scratched the surface and witnessed first hand some of the things that go on first hand. RIP

[alanrchase]

Hi just replying to this as I used to be a resident of Koh Tao for many many years until last year.

Quite a lot of posters don't really seem to know much about the island other than it being a beauty spot and great for diving. At risk of sounding negative there is a lot more to the place than this and its very diff to Phangan and Samui - it also really does have a very sinister side (as most places in the world do if you scratch the surface - like I say I'm not slating the island here but just giving an insight).

Firstly - the police don't have a CLUE nor care on the island. unless the bigger police come (normally to nick folk and extort money from them when they have gambling debts) from Samui or the mainland the po po don't give 2 shits about what goes on. Immigration come from time to time but the island is so small that the word gets round to anyone who shouldn't be there. Its pretty lawless to be frank.

Almost all the workers are Burmese in all the businesses. I'd actually go as far as to say there are more Burmese here than Thai (maybe). The Thai's that do live here are mostly from Bangkok. The gangs run the island without a doubt. There are no cars on Tao except for taxi's - the taxi drivers are run by the gangs and they hold the place to ransom with what they charge and how they operate - there have also been lots of reports of taxi drivers "touching up" shall we say drunk female holiday makers. I have also witnessed taxi drivers beating the sh*t out of tourists on many many an occasion. They wouldn't even allow an ambulance service which the farangs tried to set up and said it would be shot at if they did (they see it as taking business away from the taxis). There are lots of clinics (gang owned) but no doctors and no hospital. If you had an serious accident or say a stroke here you'd die put it that way as you wouldn't make the next island fast enough on a boat. Most of the bars etc are gang owned - the ones that aren't are often burned down if they start making money or people get shot at.

The bar the 2 victims were at (AC) is EXTREMELY dodgy past about 1am. Some really dangerous folk frequent there. The island is such a wonderful place but yes (as I say like most places) it gets to a certain time of night and all the freaks come out - couple this with drugs, drink, weapons and a police force who just sit in their office playing cards and you better off staying indoors! Anyway like I say - just an insight.

I'm not going to start speculating about what happened as there is too much of that going on here on this thread. Will just wait to see how this pans out.

RIP to these poor people I have thought of nothing else for the past few days - its just so shocking.

Yep. I also used to live on the rock and we left as it was no place to be, especially as a young family once you had scratched the surface and witnessed first hand some of the things that go on first hand. RIP

Scratched the surface. Pray tell more.

[Aceicol]

L&M cigarette butt. Now the police say they have found an L&M cigarette but with DNA of two people matching the DNA found on sperm from the victim. Well that points to two people sharing a cigarette, which is common among either local or immigrant workers, who share cigarettes sometimes because of lack of money. I can't see tourists sharing a cigarette unless it had been used for the purpose of smoking marijuana, so therefore it points strongly to an Asian connection.

Again, stereotypes and ill informed speculation. Why bother? Could invent several scenarios if neccessary.

That is exactly what criminal profiling is and extremely useful. It's not enough to convict but if there is a demographic that have certain habits then it would be crazy not to look into it.

[JohnTrove]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Hi just replying to this as I used to be a resident of Koh Tao for many many years until last year.

Quite a lot of posters don't really seem to know much about the island other than it being a beauty spot and great for diving. At risk of sounding negative there is a lot more to the place than this and its very diff to Phangan and Samui - it also really does have a very sinister side (as most places in the world do if you scratch the surface - like I say I'm not slating the island here but just giving an insight).

Firstly - the police don't have a CLUE nor care on the island. unless the bigger police come (normally to nick folk and extort money from them when they have gambling debts) from Samui or the mainland the po po don't give 2 shits about what goes on. Immigration come from time to time but the island is so small that the word gets round to anyone who shouldn't be there. Its pretty lawless to be frank.

Almost all the workers are Burmese in all the businesses. I'd actually go as far as to say there are more Burmese here than Thai (maybe). The Thai's that do live here are mostly from Bangkok. The gangs run the island without a doubt. There are no cars on Tao except for taxi's - the taxi drivers are run by the gangs and they hold the place to ransom with what they charge and how they operate - there have also been lots of reports of taxi drivers "touching up" shall we say drunk female holiday makers. I have also witnessed taxi drivers beating the sh*t out of tourists on many many an occasion. They wouldn't even allow an ambulance service which the farangs tried to set up and said it would be shot at if they did (they see it as taking business away from the taxis). There are lots of clinics (gang owned) but no doctors and no hospital. If you had an serious accident or say a stroke here you'd die put it that way as you wouldn't make the next island fast enough on a boat. Most of the bars etc are gang owned - the ones that aren't are often burned down if they start making money or people get shot at.

The bar the 2 victims were at (AC) is EXTREMELY dodgy past about 1am. Some really dangerous folk frequent there. The island is such a wonderful place but yes (as I say like most places) it gets to a certain time of night and all the freaks come out - couple this with drugs, drink, weapons and a police force who just sit in their office playing cards and you better off staying indoors! Anyway like I say - just an insight.

I'm not going to start speculating about what happened as there is too much of that going on here on this thread. Will just wait to see how this pans out.

RIP to these poor people I have thought of nothing else for the past few days - its just so shocking.

Thank you for taking the time to post this.

No problem - it was doing my head in reading pages of speculative comments from people who had never lived there! As I say Phangan and Samui are on the doorstep (well 4 + hours on a ferry!) but they couldn't be more different. I really also want to say that even with all the gang stuff I have posted about its still my favourite place in the world. I no longer live there but will visit every year and would never wish to put any one off travelling there.

Most of the violence I came across was Thai on Thai (shooting, stabbing etc) - but I come from Manchester originally and that's the same there too - no different! The taxi drivers are a different species though and i've seen them committing plenty of violence on holidaymakers - normally mouthy ones who didn't want to pay the fare and got a licking off a group of them.. When I say a licking I mean a SERIOUS licking. And as I say there was one in particular who was famous for his wandering hands - everyone seemed to know about him. It used to really play on my mind that did.

There were also the "types" who would go to places like AC in the wee hours to keep an eye on their "service girls" (shall we put it). They'd be there in a big group and woe betide a foreigner who rubbed them up the wrong way or a girl they cracked onto who wasn't interested. I'm not saying anymore but showing up guys like this would have some pretty serious consequences. When the police did come out of their "station" it would be to sit in the bars with these n'er do wells and they'd all have a very friendly drink and a laugh together.

[alanrchase]

Have to say before I unsubsribe from topic that the anti Thai rethoric is disappointing. Amazes me how people live here and derive enjoyment from taking the p##s out of the people they live with.

Think you've gone early with the rhetoric remark. Most folk who live here, (well me anyway), can think of dozens of wonderful reasons to live here... I can also think of a few things that really disturb me, (like road safety), but on balance it's pretty good. I think we can say that nowhere is perfect, and if its so bad then I don't have to stay... but it's not like that. I've been here over half my life, so I think I am entitled to look through the microscope.

Re read please. Agree with you.

[Franky Bear]

Jonathon Head just tweeted this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Police on Koh Tao now reluctantly admit killer of 2 young Brits could be a Thai.

[alanrchase]

Jonathon Head just tweeted this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Police on Koh Tao now reluctantly admit killer of 2 young Brits could be a Thai.

Well there we go.

[mojorison]

who'd have thunk...

[alanrchase]

I was once fortunate or unfortunate be near Kate Aidee, sorry for spelling. Bit of a fracas was going on at the time. Live news from where I was. Bit like a weather forcast that tells me it is cloudy when the skies are blue.

[andyIslandMan]

Yeah as I said earlier, Jonathon Head seems to be unafraid to ask the questions that Thai media won't and seems to be receptive to any backstory about Koh Tao in general I think judging by his Twitter account: https://twitter.com/pakhead It's about time someone properly pushed the Thai authorities on these sorts of incidents as the World's media, parents and young back packers are watching and their whole tourism industry is on a knife edge IMHO...

Edited September 18, 2014 by andyIslandMan

[Aceicol]

Jonathon Head just tweeted this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Police on Koh Tao now reluctantly admit killer of 2 young Brits could be a Thai.

Well there we go.

Is that the same as a lot of posters have been suggesting but you've been totally against the idea?

[englishoak]

Jonathon Head just tweeted this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Police on Koh Tao now reluctantly admit killer of 2 young Brits could be a Thai.

Thai detective work of the finest degree... Good to hear tho

Why do I get the impression its only since the big police arrived from bangers with orders.... this is bigger than a few tourists ignoring a small island and tourist revenue drop will hit a lot more bigger fish than those on Koh Tao and they I suspect will do whatever is required to shore it up.... and if that means throwing someone to the sharks even be it Thai and losing a little national face its going to be a lot better than being seen to be totally inept.

Im also pretty sure the PM is seething hes been dragged in and made to look bad. In a way it may be the best thing to happen, the only way to make things better now is to get the killers whoever they are and to heck with the scapegoat excuses. Time to gently ease in the idea it could be a Thai (im sure they have an idea by now anyway ) and then in a few days bring out some breakthrough.

Its damage limitation now and a national problem, with all the other stuff about re Thai students killing train murder etc and the world reading its hard to not look at Thai as being very possible if not likely ... they are certainly capable and its getting impossible to hide that now... thankfully.

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and replies have been removed.

[Franky Bear]

I personally feel that the rest of the world looking in that is reconsidering coming to Thailand because of this murder wouldn't care if it was a Thai or Welshman that did it.

The crux of this is two young kids got killed IN Thailand, who killed them will not matter to anyone other than the family and us that live here or spend time here

[alanrchase]

Jonathon Head just tweeted this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Police on Koh Tao now reluctantly admit killer of 2 young Brits could be a Thai.

Well there we go.

Is that the same as a lot of posters have been suggesting but you've been totally against the idea?

Point is what? Open to all ideas. Jonothan Head knows more than anyone else? Personally waiting for all the speculation to die down and get some facts. I live there does not cut it for me. Jonothan has probably not left his free hotel in Bangkok.

[englishoak]

Jonathon Head just tweeted this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Police on Koh Tao now reluctantly admit killer of 2 young Brits could be a Thai.

Well there we go.

Is that the same as a lot of posters have been suggesting but you've been totally against the idea?

Point is what? Open to all ideas. Jonothan Head knows more than anyone else? Personally waiting for all the speculation to die down and get some facts. I live there does not cut it for me. Jonothan has probably not left his free hotel in Bangkok.

Hes been on location there for days fyi, one thing is clear tho JH has the guts to say what many here have been saying and that is there are other obvious previously ignored avenues that should have been initially considered and only now after everything is contaminated and messed up they are considering, which will make it all that much harder...

[andyIslandMan]

Jonathon Head just tweeted this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Police on Koh Tao now reluctantly admit killer of 2 young Brits could be a Thai.

Well there we go.

Is that the same as a lot of posters have been suggesting but you've been totally against the idea?

Point is what? Open to all ideas. Jonothan Head knows more than anyone else? Personally waiting for all the speculation to die down and get some facts. I live there does not cut it for me. Jonothan has probably not left his free hotel in Bangkok.

Jonothan Head has been doing live reports on the BBC news back to the UK standing on Sairee beach as it's a BIG story over here, about 3rd item today on 1 0'clock news but been 2nd and 1st over last few days EVERY day... I wasn't saying he knew more than most but was saying he seems to be exasperated by the way the crime scene & investigation has been handled and is saying as much as he can about this in each report & via Twitter. My main point was that I would be getting in touch with him if I was there or used to live there to give him more background stories about the rock in order to pressure the authorities to handle this investigation better however I can appreciate having lived there myself that speaking up about some things and no doubt the resulting decline in tourism = cash might mean the end of Koh Tao as most of us have known it.

Edited September 18, 2014 by andyIslandMan

[mataleo]

Police on Koh Tao now reluctantly admit killer of 2 young Brits could be a Thai.

[alanrchase]

Jonathon Head just tweeted this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Police on Koh Tao now reluctantly admit killer of 2 young Brits could be a Thai.

Well there we go.

Is that the same as a lot of posters have been suggesting but you've been totally against the idea?

Point is what? Open to all ideas. Jonothan Head knows more than anyone else? Personally waiting for all the speculation to die down and get some facts. I live there does not cut it for me. Jonothan has probably not left his free hotel in Bangkok.

Jonothan Head has been doing live reports on the BBC news back to the UK standing on Sairee beach as it's a BIG story over here, about 3rd today but been 2nd and 1st over last few days EVERY day... I wasn't saying he knew more than most but was saying he seems to be exasperated by the way the crime scene & investigation has been handled and is saying as much as he can about this in each report & via Twitter.

Fine. Why is he better than the Thai authorities? Western news is the best? So much unconfirmed talk on here. Sorry but think western arrogance is taking over an horrendous crime.

[mataleo]

What a irony. ...

[JonnyF]

First and foremost this is a tragedy for the victims and their families and "face" and tourism must take a back seat.

But the way this has been handled is far more damaging to the country than the event itself. I lived in Woolwich (SE London) for 3 years and people getting violently killed was not unusual. It made the local papers and that was it. The beheading of the soldier Lee Rigby last year was an exception to that as it was political, but there were fatal stabbings and shootings that didn't get any media attention whatsoever.

But the amateur nature of the investigation is astounding even for someone who has lived in Thailand for 8 years. It's worse than amateur. We've heard from the authorities that it couldn't be a Thai because they're too nice, the police uploading the dead victims pictures onto Facebook, indirectly blaming the victims, blaming every foreigner/migrant worker within sight, the PM's advice on bikinis (she wasn't even wearing a bikini!?!), the list goes on and may even get worse in the coming days.

People accept that people get killed everywhere and life is fragile, but the aftermath has been absolutely humiliating for the victims and I hope the families are able to cope. The expression 'adding insult to injury' doesn't come close.

[chooka]

from news reports in Australia coming via BBC the crime scene wasn't contained and was totally contaminated with tourists and media walking all over it along with the police. Apparently a crime scene has still not been established by the BIB. Evidence has been totally destroyed and it is something like a tourist attraction.

[mataleo]

from news reports in Australia coming via BBC the crime scene wasn't contained and was totally contaminated with tourists and media walking all over it along with the police. Apparently a crime scene has still not been established by the BIB. Evidence has been totally destroyed and it is something like a tourist attraction.

Its terrible so unpro.

They got not a clue what they doing...

[alanrchase]

from news reports in Australia coming via BBC the crime scene wasn't contained and was totally contaminated with tourists and media walking all over it along with the police. Apparently a crime scene has still not been established by the BIB. Evidence has been totally destroyed and it is something like a tourist attraction.

Foreign press from the supposed first world countries love to comment on the inefficiencies of supposed third world countries.

[kimamey]

What the article doesn't mention is the fact that the lad returned to the island as he'd seen the news suspecting him. He was not arrested, he went to them. I just looked at the CCTV footage and the person the police say they are looking for from the CCTV (apparently he walked past the crimes scene at 4 in the morning quite a few times) is clearly not this lad. The person on the CCTV has long black (or dark) hair and looks local rather than European. The mobile phone had blond hair on it. This lad has very short dark hair. It seems to me that he presented himself for an interview and the local plod have assumed his guilt. I'm not buying into this at all.

I think we need to be careful about hair colour in CCTV images. I'm sure that someone could give the technical reasons if they haven't already. I remember doing some part time security work back around 2000 and the B/W video always showed cars looking the wrong colour. Dark looked light and light looked dark and some weird ones in between.

In the 60s there was a UK police series called Z Cars in black and white where the cars were yellow so they looked white on screen.

I remember Z Cars! I also remember the snooker commentator telling us Davies was going for the brown and for those watching in black & white, the brown was the ball behind the blue... No Kimamey, the person on the CCTV was quite obviously not the lad with the police he has a totally different body type and long, straight hair (whether that be blonde or black, it's so different that confusion is not possible)

I wasn't pointing to any particular CCTV just mentioning that colours can appear differently on B/W video.

I did see a shot from CCTV apparently showing the victims and someone said the girl's hair colour was wrong which made me think about the problem of colour on CCTV.

Looking at the news now it seems they're not getting anywhere with their investigation.