Taxing the rich: It's tough. That's why it must be done

[webfact]

THAI TALK
Taxing the rich: It's tough. That's why it must be done
Suthichai Yoon
The Nation

BANGKOK: -- You can't say Prime Minister Prayuth Chan-ocha isn't ambitious in his national agenda. As soon as he put down in writing that his government will tax the rich to create a more equitable society, cynics began to suggest that he had bitten off more than he could chew.

Doesn't he realise that past governments have failed, despite their repeated public pronouncements and election promises, to enforce inheritance and land taxes?

Doesn't he know that it's one thing to do what the public expects him to do but quite another to really get down to action?

Academics have warned him that collecting more taxes from the wealthy is a tough nut to crack. Politicians have tried before, but none has been able to implement a really effective inheritance tax system. And it's even more difficult to make landlords pay higher taxes for unused land.

Wealthy landowners are usually the same people who wield power in society, the new prime minister has been warned, and they would do everything possible to torpedo any attempt to have them sacrifice their wealth. They have always managed to put heavy pressure on those in power to halt such controversial legislation. And, without exception, they have been successful so far.

The same group of cynics has also poured cold water on Prayuth's apparent attempt to put an end to populist policies, including the lifting of subsidies that have had the effect of distorting the market mechanism for a number of items.

Overhauling the pricing systems for energy products is one of the serious challenges facing the prime minister. It's fine, and even mandatory perhaps, to talk publicly about resetting the price of oil and gas products "to reflect the real market prices" and avoid market distortion.

But if any government gets serious about enforcing such a policy, public reaction will be negative. Previous governments could testify to the high political risk of removing subsidies that send the prices of commodities up.

Does General Prayuth realise that doing both - getting the rich to pay higher taxes and depriving the middle-class of subsidies on their everyday goods - is just not possible, not "doable" in the political context?

But there are also people around the prime minister who insist that the main reason the public has so far given him high marks for the job is that they believe he will do what others before him thought was not doable.

Prayuth has repeatedly and publicly pledged to do what badly needs to be done to overhaul the country. His is a "reform agenda" that could not be carried out under a "normal political system", where politicians owe political, financial and personal debts to the wealthy, influential and powerful, whose demand has always been: Keep the status quo if you want our support for you to stay in power.

Past politicians, both in office and in opposition, had to toe the line, because their power base was reliant on the support of the rich and powerful. Any attempt to embark on "reform" plans that affected deeply rooted vested interests would have been interpreted as a challenge to the establishment.

But General Prayuth's agenda promises to uproot the old and create a new society free of corruption, thereby reducing the longstanding gap between the rich and the poor, the powerful and the powerless, the noisy urban and the voiceless rural people.

It's precisely because the issues are tough and appear to be "impossible" that Prayuth has decided to take on the challenge. If they were simple and easy to implement, those tasks would have been carried out already and the country wouldn't have fallen off the cliff to the point where he had to step in to undertake what he and his coup-making colleagues have described as an "undesirable but necessary mission".

In other words, the fact that the mission appears to be "impossible" makes it all the more crucial that he ensures it's done, and done right.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/opinion/Taxing-the-rich-Its-tough-Thats-why-it-must-be-don-30243487.html


-- The Nation 2014-09-18

[englishoak]

Good luck with that.

[rkidlad]

Taxing the rich here is a good idea. It's good because most wealthy Thais aren't going to move abroad to some tax haven. Most rich Thais here are rich because the system allows them to be. They can be gods here. Abroad they're just another rich foreigner.

[chainarong]

It is not a point of just taxing the rich it is a point to ensure that the rich pay their equal , required amount , far too many times, the rich have super duper ways to avoid tax , the rich or wealthy should pay their way as with the rest of the population, when you find that a wealthy person pays ten per-cent and the bus Driver pays 33 per-cent you wonder who has the best tax accountant, P.M. Prayuth 's choice of words probably could have been more softer , however why go soft on people who make mega bucks and then flout the Tax laws.

[maccaroni man]

Fair share is a slippery slope. IMO the process of a govt creating a reliable tax base is centered around the masses being able to earn and pay. Making 1% of the population a target is a smoke screen and a tool for social divide.

[rakman]

Rates aren't the way to consider what's "fair". It is how much a person contributes to society in the many ways they can.

Go ask a poor person for a job and see what you get.

If the "poor" get 60 percent of the government's support and the rich only get 5%, is that "fair"?

When draconian tax structures are put in place, the amount collected goes down, and yes, eventually the rich leave or find how to use the law to minimize the damage, increasing corruption.

[stickyrice2000]

Once the new tax is implemented, there will soon be more new taxes imposed on the citizens. What is the purpose of these new taxes? The government needs to learn to cut expenses and control the budget properly. I don't blame the rich. No one likes to pay taxes.

[Nickymaster]

Prayuth is a brave man. Former Thai leaders didn't dare to do this because it could cost them their connections among the influential and wealthy Thai people.

Edited September 18, 2014 by Nickymaster

[PJcm]

I tip more than most Thais pay in taxes

[DP25]

The general can tax the rich for now, but if a Thaksin aligned government gets in to power after, things will return to how they were before. With probably some bonus tax cuts on the wealthy and corporations to make up for what they lost.

[razer]

The rich traditionally avoid taxation worldwide because there isn't a government in the world that doesn't kowtow to the elite.

Obama, by changing banking laws has brought in $$$ millions in tax revenue from undeclared income deposited in foreign bank accounts. The elite benefit the most from government and proportionately pay the least amount of money for it.

Need money? Tax the elite. They can afford it.

[robblok]

Good luck with that.

Cynical.. or do you hope he succeed. I hope the last because then he proved all the anti coup heroes wrong.

Though I think the guy is a dinosaur in his views in the Koh Tao case and his views on bikinis.

Im not blind to his faults.. but so far the balance has been positive and if he can do this, he will be remembered forever in a good way.

If not he failed just like all the others.

[Bob12345]

The general can tax the rich for now, but if a Thaksin aligned government gets in to power after, things will return to how they were before. With probably some bonus tax cuts on the wealthy and corporations to make up for what they lost.

Dont you get tired of your own type of comments where the reply is always about how Taksin would do worse or has done worse?

Why you don't point out that previous yellow governments, and previous military governments, also failed and probably will come up with bonus cuts when they will get into power next?

[worgeordie]

Yes it will be tough to tax the rich.....because all lawmakers are rich,

and of cause put their own interests above the interests of the country.

maybe the PM an do it,and good luck to him, but can see any laws passed

to increase taxes for the rich,to be quickly repealed, once the pigs get back

to the troughs,its a pity they will return as things seem to be moving along

nicely without them,

regards Worgeordie

[mike324]

Taxing the rich more doesn't solve the ultimate problem, corruption. I believe Thailand has enough tax money (ok its never enough if you are trying to subsidize the farmers) but its enough to make Thailand comparable to Taiwan, South Korea in terms of basic infrastructure throughout the country. What they lack is proper urban planning and curbing the corruption.

[robblok]

The general can tax the rich for now, but if a Thaksin aligned government gets in to power after, things will return to how they were before. With probably some bonus tax cuts on the wealthy and corporations to make up for what they lost.

Dont you get tired of your own type of comments where the reply is always about how Taksin would do worse or has done worse?

Why you don't point out that previous yellow governments, and previous military governments, also failed and probably will come up with bonus cuts when they will get into power next?

Taksin was worse.. he put into place a law before selling his shares in his company to a Singapore company so he did not have to pay tax. Nobody was ever that bad. It was so clear and obvious.

Now I hope the general will not fail but its a tough nut to crack but he has a bigger chance as either yellow or red governments as he does not have to worry too much about votes. Also his power is not based on the same power-structure as those democratic governments. So his chances are better. Lets just all hope he succeeds and he goes into the history books as the savior of Thailand.

But i bet many farang red shirts just hope that he fails because then they feel justified.. if he gets it done they will look so bad so they rather want Thailand to fail then to be proven wrong.

Not all of course but a fair number of the red supporters do.

[h90]

Taxing the rich here is a good idea. It's good because most wealthy Thais aren't going to move abroad to some tax haven. Most rich Thais here are rich because the system allows them to be. They can be gods here. Abroad they're just another rich foreigner.

Rich Thais do go abroad with their money.....first of all to Singapore but also to various other countries.....

[Obb]

LUXURY TAXES.

Add that to the plan to get these obnoxious, swaggering, arrogant Thai elite who make their money off of slave labor.

Edited September 18, 2014 by Obb

[pookiki]

It will be interesting to see how Thailand's tax laws are ultimately reformed. There are lots of models to study where an effective graduated income tax scheme has a tangible impact on income equality and the delivery of much needed social programs. By any definition, it is populism -- the horror of it all -- but it is based on a much needed societal reforms.

[doctorproc156]

Tax the top 10 percenters to make the 1 percenters even richer

[mccw]

Problem with tax is the politicians just pocket it or blow it on crap.

[Bob12345]

The general can tax the rich for now, but if a Thaksin aligned government gets in to power after, things will return to how they were before. With probably some bonus tax cuts on the wealthy and corporations to make up for what they lost.

Dont you get tired of your own type of comments where the reply is always about how Taksin would do worse or has done worse?

Why you don't point out that previous yellow governments, and previous military governments, also failed and probably will come up with bonus cuts when they will get into power next?

Taksin was worse.. he put into place a law before selling his shares in his company to a Singapore company so he did not have to pay tax. Nobody was ever that bad. It was so clear and obvious.

Now I hope the general will not fail but its a tough nut to crack but he has a bigger chance as either yellow or red governments as he does not have to worry too much about votes. Also his power is not based on the same power-structure as those democratic governments. So his chances are better. Lets just all hope he succeeds and he goes into the history books as the savior of Thailand.

But i bet many farang red shirts just hope that he fails because then they feel justified.. if he gets it done they will look so bad so they rather want Thailand to fail then to be proven wrong.

Not all of course but a fair number of the red supporters do.

Let me first point out that my comment was ment to vent my irritation about the posts that always boil down to red=bad and the rest is better even though the subject does not mention Taksin, red, or yellow in any way.

I can agree on many ways that Taksin was bad, but his tax evading would not be in my top 3. And it is hard for me to give judgement who is worse as the current pm is also no saint, and any details about his wealth are kept hidden. Besides, Taksin may have changed 1 law to profit from it, which makes him bad, while the current pm just declares himself above every law. How bad is that?

I think a lot of people want Thailand to improve, just not in this way. If the general solves some problems and returns power to the people we can almost start a countdown till the next coup when the country needs to be "saved" again.

Voters will have no incentive to vote for a good government with a long term vision this way. The next coup is coming soon so better vote for whoever promises you the most gains in the short term. The country may get plundered, but the new coup leaders will sort it out.

How can a democracy mature in such an environment?

Edited September 18, 2014 by Bob12345

[ChrisY1]

The military government has carte blanch at present....if they're serious, they can do it!

Mind....when (if) an elected government finally takes control, no doubt legislations of this kind would most likely be scrapped.

[rkidlad]

Taxing the rich here is a good idea. It's good because most wealthy Thais aren't going to move abroad to some tax haven. Most rich Thais here are rich because the system allows them to be. They can be gods here. Abroad they're just another rich foreigner.

Rich Thais do go abroad with their money.....first of all to Singapore but also to various other countries.....

Rich Thais love it here in Thailand. In fact, most Thais do. I don't know that many of Thailand's richest have moved abroad to make more money. Why would you when you can pretty much do whatever you want to do here?

The only really rich Thais who move abroad are the ones like Thaksin and the Red Bill kid. And they ain't abroad for the transparency, anti-corruption laws, clean streets or camels.

[rkidlad]

Taxing the rich here is a good idea. It's good because most wealthy Thais aren't going to move abroad to some tax haven. Most rich Thais here are rich because the system allows them to be. They can be gods here. Abroad they're just another rich foreigner.

Rich Thais do go abroad with their money.....first of all to Singapore but also to various other countries.....

Rich Thais love it here in Thailand. In fact, most Thais do. I don't know that many of Thailand's richest have moved abroad to make more money. Why would you when you can pretty much do whatever you want to do here?

The only really rich Thais who move abroad are the ones like Thaksin and the Red Bill kid. And they ain't abroad for the transparency, anti-corruption laws, clean streets or camels.

[chotthee]

Korn used to talk about taxing the rich.

Now, he is no where to be found.

[robblok]

The general can tax the rich for now, but if a Thaksin aligned government gets in to power after, things will return to how they were before. With probably some bonus tax cuts on the wealthy and corporations to make up for what they lost.

Dont you get tired of your own type of comments where the reply is always about how Taksin would do worse or has done worse?

Why you don't point out that previous yellow governments, and previous military governments, also failed and probably will come up with bonus cuts when they will get into power next?

Taksin was worse.. he put into place a law before selling his shares in his company to a Singapore company so he did not have to pay tax. Nobody was ever that bad. It was so clear and obvious.

Now I hope the general will not fail but its a tough nut to crack but he has a bigger chance as either yellow or red governments as he does not have to worry too much about votes. Also his power is not based on the same power-structure as those democratic governments. So his chances are better. Lets just all hope he succeeds and he goes into the history books as the savior of Thailand.

But i bet many farang red shirts just hope that he fails because then they feel justified.. if he gets it done they will look so bad so they rather want Thailand to fail then to be proven wrong.

Not all of course but a fair number of the red supporters do.

Let me first point out that my comment was ment to vent my irritation about the posts that always boil down to red=bad and the rest is better even though the subject does not mention Taksin, red, or yellow in any way.

I can agree on many ways that Taksin was bad, but his tax evading would not be in my top 3. And it is hard for me to give judgement who is worse as the current pm is also no saint, and any details about his wealth are kept hidden. Besides, Taksin may have changed 1 law to profit from it, which makes him bad, while the current pm just declares himself above every law. How bad is that?

I think a lot of people want Thailand to improve, just not in this way. If the general solves some problems and returns power to the people we can almost start a countdown till the next coup when the country needs to be "saved" again.

Voters will have no incentive to vote for a good government with a long term vision this way. The next coup is coming soon so better vote for whoever promises you the most gains in the short term. The country may get plundered, but the new coup leaders will sort it out.

How can a democracy mature in such an environment?

Maybe then politicians like the PTP should stay within the law.. then no need for the army to rush in. We see now how they protected the red terrorist that killed anti goverment supporters. All this because they wanted a convicted criminal to go free. They miscalculated all for one man.. that is why we are here.. without his amnesty they would still be in power. So instead of blaming the general blame them.

I am far more practical... if the general solves a lot then he is 10 times better as the so called democratic governments (is not real because no checks and balances and too much corruption) who do nothing.

Is it so bad to live under a military government ? I think not for me nothing has changed could not vote before.. cant vote now. At least the reds are not butchering others.. no red villages.. no protests.. sounds good to me.

I might not like all the general does (his morality on bikinis is from the stone age) but at least i admit his faults.

Btw Taksin did far more then evading taxes.. forgot he tried to bribe judges.. There is so much more.. he is one of the worst ever.

[Bob12345]

Is it so bad to live under a military government ?

In the short run it can be good as a military government worries less about its popularity and can cut through red tape without problems.

In the long run i think it is extremely damaging for a country as citizens will start demanding more power. The government will do everything to justify its power (alter history, brainwash with propaganda, limit freedom of speech, jail everyone who is a threat, close the borders, use violence, kill their own citizens etc) and that will come at the cost of economic growth and happiness.

The current military government is a short term solution to a long term problem. At some point they hand back power to the citizens and everything will start over again.

[robblok]

Is it so bad to live under a military government ?

In the short run it can be good as a military government worries less about its popularity and can cut through red tape without problems.

In the long run i think it is extremely damaging for a country as citizens will start demanding more power. The government will do everything to justify its power (alter history, brainwash with propaganda, limit freedom of speech, jail everyone who is a threat, close the borders, use violence, kill their own citizens etc) and that will come at the cost of economic growth and happiness.

The current military government is a short term solution to a long term problem. At some point they hand back power to the citizens and everything will start over again.

Not if they give the anti corruption laws teeth and make sure that power misuse of the PTP cant happen again. I have no problem with them in power. But the misuse of power should be countered by independent organisations. If they can make the rules stricter then there is no problem once power is returned. Then the PTP is forced to play by the rules and cant hide stuff like the rice scam again. (not budgeted for but 700 billion gone).

When strong anti corruption agencies are there then things can start to change (slowly this wont go away over night). If they do it good this time make a powerful constitution and make sure the PTP isnt going to change it again for its own need (or maybe if they have 70% then i can agree with it let people vote about it if changes are made)

I see a lot of promise this time and I hope I am not wrong, this tax the rich is a great thing.. if he can get it done then it proves it was a good idea. Remember the rich are a small part if any party tries to change it back then we know they are not in it for the poor but for their own money.

[Stradavarius37]

The general can tax the rich for now, but if a Thaksin aligned government gets in to power after, things will return to how they were before. With probably some bonus tax cuts on the wealthy and corporations to make up for what they lost.

Well, little chance of that happening.