Australia launches anti-terror raids

[Tep]

A fair go for this Muslim on Oz included 19 years on benefits, and how did he re pay Australians, by obeying his religion of course. note the peace and law abiding nature of Muslims outside the court

I was ready for a discussion on Islam and Australia and you post this.

They are more in a tizz about the benefits thing than the actual terror plot. Which was foiled and these guys arrested. So we are back to anti-immigration, right wing stuff. We are back to tarring all muslims with the same brush. The analysis in the VDO done by whom? A radio DJ. Using words like 'them' and referring to benefits.

You keep on posting this nonsense, you will keep getting the same accusations of bigot, racist etc and no discussion on real issues will take place.

My best mate married an anchor for a channel 7 news show. She was a trained journo. I think bimbo is the qualification now.

I agree with you that the content of the intent of this person is disturbing. But the media and you are using it to perpetuate fear and loathing.

How easy is it to defend a fair go for minorities when you are nit picked to death with these clips. You and others will find dozens more. There will be more hateful people saying hateful things about islam rewarding killers of infidels. While this remains an anti-immigration discussion, there is no hope of sensible discussion.

[Tep]

fair go does not include having a go at be heading people on the street though does it. Tolerance of an intolerant and fanatical religion can only ever have one outcome- conflict eventually

Nor does it include tar and feathering everyone else of the same religion. Unless your definition of fair differs somewhat from the standard definitions.

Not all muslims are the same and I have never claimed they are all terrorists so stop your inflammatory claim that I have tarred all with the same brush. What I AM saying is that all Islam is the same as the koran is (to them) the incontestable word of god and that (to them) the prophet was the perfect man. So Muslims are trapped into accepting more than 109 calls to jihad and violence in the koran, that unbelievers are the worst of people not to be befriended that apostates should be killed and that Jews and Christians are to be persecuted. They also know, though like to try and twist out of it,that the prophet married a 6 years old and raped her at 9, was a slave owning raider and killer who preached intolerance and persecution of other religions as soon as he was powerful enough. Give this belief a fair go if you like, many western counties have, and look what happened there!

You abuse the term fair go. Why not research it and find out the part is plays in Australian culture. It does not mean license for anyone to break the law or threaten anyone. You link an Australian tradition with some historical speculation or account of a 7th Century person? I really don't think you are a credible spokesperson for the muslims and you are not really rising to the challenge of the discussion with this kind of stuff. I want to know how islam will affect the way Australia interacts with the minority muslim population. Apocryphyllic stories of 7th century misdemeanours don't help that. This is why I think you should have some understanding of Australia and its culture and not just pour out genera tic, Brit centric anti immigrant stuff. I am leaning back towards Samran's take on your postings here.

[Tep]

Perhaps someone could explain, why, in the perfectly harmonious, multicultural society that is Australia.

This is your fantasy debate right? No body has ever said that. Yet you try to argue this position and smack people over the head with this statement that nobody has ever said. I and others have said Australia is a multicultural society. That does not fit with your extreme view of the world run amok by scary muslims.

This confirms your complete lack of any understanding of Australian culture or society. You refuse to listen when told by actual Australians about this issue and continue to pester this thread dealing with issues that you have entirely no connection with.

Nobody said that Australia is a perfectly harmonious multicultural society. Nobody even said that multiculturalism creates perfect harmony. it is simply showing respect for diversity and minorities. But then you have shown little of this to anyone who doesn't swallow your nonsense.

When will you post something that informs the debate on issues of relevance to Australia? Snide, pompous rubbish.

[jacky54]

You abuse the term fair go. Why not research it and find out the part is plays in Australian culture. It does not mean license for anyone to break the law or threaten anyone. You link an Australian tradition with some historical speculation or account of a 7th Century person? I really don't think you are a credible spokesperson for the muslims and you are not really rising to the challenge of the discussion with this kind of stuff. I want to know how islam will affect the way Australia interacts with the minority muslim population. Apocryphyllic stories of 7th century misdemeanours don't help that. This is why I think you should have some understanding of Australia and its culture and not just pour out genera tic, Brit centric anti immigrant stuff. I am leaning back towards Samran's take on your postings here.

It's not about 7th cent crimes but about crimes today caused by a total belief in a 7th cent dogma that is totally opposed to integration or the acceptance of other faiths. Or do you think no Christianity in Suadi and the burning of Churches and persecution in other Islamic nations is a sign of Islamic tolerance?. What we are seeing in Australia is just what has happened in Europe and will happen in the USA in time. Do you really think Islamamist's give a toss about your precious 'fair go'? no they will just use it for their own advantage, they cry tolerance, respect and fair play for themselves but never give any on return.

Edited September 29, 2014 by jacky54

[Scott]

Post with racial overtones have been removed along with replies. Please keep the exchange civil.

[Tep]

You abuse the term fair go. Why not research it and find out the part is plays in Australian culture. It does not mean license for anyone to break the law or threaten anyone. You link an Australian tradition with some historical speculation or account of a 7th Century person? I really don't think you are a credible spokesperson for the muslims and you are not really rising to the challenge of the discussion with this kind of stuff. I want to know how islam will affect the way Australia interacts with the minority muslim population. Apocryphyllic stories of 7th century misdemeanours don't help that. This is why I think you should have some understanding of Australia and its culture and not just pour out genera tic, Brit centric anti immigrant stuff. I am leaning back towards Samran's take on your postings here.

It's not about 7th cent crimes but about crimes today caused by a total belief in a 7th cent dogma that is totally opposed to integration or the acceptance of other faiths. Or do you think no Christianity in Suadi and the burning of Churches and persecution in other Islamic nations is a sign of Islamic tolerance?. What we are seeing in Australia is just what has happened in Europe and will happen in the USA in time. Do you really think Islamamist's give a toss about your precious 'fair go'? no they will just use it for their own advantage, they cry tolerance, respect and fair play for themselves but never give any on return.

Yes they will give a toss about fair go because they will be Australian. I am talking about Muslims here. I do not fear the future as you do. I trust Australia and its institutions to respond to the challenges presented by muslims.

The Churches in Saudi thing is pretty much irrelevant to a discussion on muslims in Australia. There are quite a few Australian Christian nuts. One of them attacked a mosque in Turkey a few years back. In rural Australia there are some real humdinger religious nuts. But Saudi is not multicultural, or even a democracy. Why give them the honour of being judged equivalent to Australia? Many of those Arab states will collapse under their own bullshit. I hope the damage can be contained. The US will not doubt be front and centre.

You fear islamic take over of Britain. You assume it will happen in the US and Australia. You are irrational (this is not an insult) and I don't believe you or agree. Islamic jihadism for want of a better word is highly complex. Many angles and aspect to tease out. But there is no unifying mind directing hordes of jihadists to take over Australia and force us to replace our fish and chips and sausages with felafel's. No intelligent design on this one. Far more complex that that. The fear thing gets a bit tired after a while and its propagators will find themselves told to take themselves off elsewhere. There is not a majority support for the right wing DJ's in Australia. Most of them are viewed as <deleted> but he intelligensia.

[Tep]

It doesn't take a great number of terrorists to become a threat.

Eleven terrorists killed nearly 3,000 people on 9/11/01.

A threat is not a takeover. Do you subscribe to the view that entire societies will be subsumed by these radicals?

Australians may not have guns any more that they have shown a willingness to fight for their way of life and have fought with honour and distinction. But I can't see it coming to that in domestic Australia. Police action responds to threats no matter how many the number.

[JockPieandBeans]

The days of the white supremacist Brit fostering bigotry and racism in Australia are over but unfortunately there are still voices like yours to contend with.

You have made your position absolutely clear.

So let me reciprocate.

I could not give a Castlemaine XXXX what you write in this thread.

[Tep]

You are really something else. Where did I try and goad you into saying you support Illegal Immigration ? I posted a fellow Aussie's post to show you that not all Aussie's had the same view as you on your Australian utopia.

According to you, I have never been to Australia, so how would I know it was a far right website ?

Your the one with the Aussie passport, so you will judge ? Why, who do you think you are ?

I was good enough to answer your question, but you cannot do likewise ?

Well done

His Majesty still requires that list from you. Jump to it.

For His Majesty's pleasure, I have gone back through all Samran's posts and I cannot find the word Utopia. Can you please guide me to that reference? Or if you are still flouncing in response to my posts, please convey that information to the guy you are badgering.

Edited September 29, 2014 by Tep

[Tep]

The days of the white supremacist Brit fostering bigotry and racism in Australia are over but unfortunately there are still voices like yours to contend with.

You have made your position absolutely clear.

So let me reciprocate.

I could not give a Castlemaine XXXX what you write in this thread.

Castlemaine? What? Is this your attempt at some Australian cred? Australia is a big country. A vast country. My part is nowhere near Castlemaine or had anything to do with any aspect of the word. We had our own brand of beer. I still recall what my footy mates thought of people who drank 4X. So your ocker attempt is pretty meaningless. Because of course you have no concept of our culture and society as I have continually pointed out over and over again. You have nothing to offer us. We rejected your white supremacist stuff starting in 1975 and have only gone from strength to strength since then. We are a proud, multicultural society that respects diversity. But you don't know our history either do you.

Still waiting for the references to where i or any of the other posters who reject your brand of nonsense have ever said Australia is a Utopia because of multiculturalism. Doesn't have to specifically use the word utopia. Any related term will do. Because you know that nobody has ever said that and would never claim this. Only in your keyboard warrior fantasy of epic battles against liberals does this exist.

Still waiting to be destroyed on Afghanistan. Ready when you are.

[NumbNut]

The days of the white supremacist Brit fostering bigotry and racism in Australia are over but unfortunately there are still voices like yours to contend with.

You have made your position absolutely clear.

So let me reciprocate.

I could not give a Castlemaine XXXX what you write in this thread.

Castlemaine? What? Is this your attempt at some Australian cred? Australia is a big country. A vast country. My part is nowhere near Castlemaine or had anything to do with any aspect of the word. We had our own brand of beer. I still recall what my footy mates thought of people who drank 4X. So your ocker attempt is pretty meaningless. Because of course you have no concept of our culture and society as I have continually pointed out over and over again. You have nothing to offer us. We rejected your white supremacist stuff starting in 1975 and have only gone from strength to strength since then. We are a proud, multicultural society that respects diversity. But you don't know our history either do you.

Still waiting for the references to where i or any of the other posters who reject your brand of nonsense have ever said Australia is a Utopia because of multiculturalism. Doesn't have to specifically use the word utopia. Any related term will do. Because you know that nobody has ever said that and would never claim this. Only in your keyboard warrior fantasy of epic battles against liberals does this exist.

Still waiting to be destroyed on Afghanistan. Ready when you are.

Might have an answer for the 'Castlemaine' bit in Jock's post above.

The Queensland beer known in Aussie simply as 'XXXX' is marketed in the UK as 'Castlemaine XXXX'. A TV advertising campaign when I was living in the UK for XXXX used to finish with the punchline 'Australian's wouldn't give a Castlemaine XXXX for anything else', or something to that affect, if I recall correctly. Maybe they didn't want it to get confused with 6X Bitter which is also a beer in England.

Jock was trying to make a topical joke, but it will only be poms mostly who get it.

And I'm on your side and the other voices of sanity in this thread. After a slow start with White Australia and all that, we have become in forty years one of the most successful, multicultural society's on the planet.

Something all Australian's can be proud of.

Edited September 29, 2014 by NumbNut

[jacky54]

And I'm on your side and the other voices of sanity in this thread. After a slow start with White Australia and all that, we have become in forty years one of the most successful, multicultural society's on the planet.

Something all Australian's can be proud of.

Not sure many aboriginals living in desperate poverty with no facilities in dumping grounds would agree with that

[Tep]

And I'm on your side and the other voices of sanity in this thread. After a slow start with White Australia and all that, we have become in forty years one of the most successful, multicultural society's on the planet.

Something all Australian's can be proud of.

Not sure many aboriginals living in desperate poverty with no facilities in dumping grounds would agree with that

I really couldn't hit the sack without at least an initial response to this particular gem. I do not particularly like to use Wikipedia but on this one I will put in a link because of its brevity and succinctness http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A._O._Neville

Mr. Neville was a Brit who emigrated to Australia and became Western Australia's Chief Protector of Aborigines (the term they used to use) in 1915. For the next 25 years he removed Aboriginal children from their families and sent them to stay with White families and to be trained. Good idea you think? Ok, they were being trained to be servants to whites. Nice traditional classist Brit response right?. Kind of like a Downton Abbey, providing skills for the poor wee things.r. Neville, a typical Brit of that time thought he was doing good. Maybe even God's work. This abomination was going on until my generation. 50 odd years.

You have something to say about Australia's problems with Aboriginal people. Remember, you opened the door on this. Are you ready? You are aware of a national apology administered by the Prime Minister to the Aboriginal People? You are aware of the transfer of 75% of the territory of South Australia to the Aboriginal people in the 1970's. You are aware that all Aboriginal communities outside urban Australia are self administered homeland communities who are trying to deal with the interface between their traditional lifestyle and modern Australia.

You think they live in 3rd World conditions there. Yes they do. But not because of multiculturalism. It is because non Aboriginal Australia has yet to develop a good relationship with Aboriginal Australia.

Have you talked with any Aboriginal Australians. I have. Many of them. I listened in many meetings sitting with them in the deserts of central Australia and the sub tropics of Northern Australia. No one, not any of them, has said to me that multiculturalism is to blame for their and our problems on this issue. In fact, Aboriginal homelands are a multicultural attempt at a solution.

Now in non Aboriginal schools kids learn Aboriginal culture. They do Aboriginal Corroborees at School Music nights.

I have tried engaging with you on issues but when you blurt out such monumental, wrong, bigoted rubbish like this, then sorry but you will not get a pass. You have something to say about the problems between Aboriginal and Non Aboriginal communities? There are many. Solutions tried and failed. Maybe some solutions will never be found. But to use this as an arrow in your twisted argument against the call to respect diversity and an attempt to push your anti islam agenda? You damn well need to present some evidence that you know what you are talking about.

Aboriginal Australia is a hugely senstive area. You Brits messed it up for us in the beginning and we haven't had a good record to date. But we are trying. We are trying through instruments of multiculturalism, cultural awareness in educational programs, and positive engagement. I believe the majority of my fellow Australians who would stand ready to thump you if you tried this on in Australia. Even most of the ones running sacred of Jihadists will not let this pass unchallenged. The White Supremacist stuff that you and your fellow travellers are peddling no longer fits with modern Australia. Time has passed you old men by. The world is no longer for your sort. Give way to the next generation which has already demonstrated a far higher respect for diversity and minorities than you bunch of old has beens.

[Tep]

Castlemaine? What? Is this your attempt at some Australian cred? Australia is a big country. A vast country. My part is nowhere near Castlemaine or had anything to do with any aspect of the word. We had our own brand of beer. I still recall what my footy mates thought of people who drank 4X. So your ocker attempt is pretty meaningless. Because of course you have no concept of our culture and society as I have continually pointed out over and over again. You have nothing to offer us. We rejected your white supremacist stuff starting in 1975 and have only gone from strength to strength since then. We are a proud, multicultural society that respects diversity. But you don't know our history either do you.

Still waiting for the references to where i or any of the other posters who reject your brand of nonsense have ever said Australia is a Utopia because of multiculturalism. Doesn't have to specifically use the word utopia. Any related term will do. Because you know that nobody has ever said that and would never claim this. Only in your keyboard warrior fantasy of epic battles against liberals does this exist.

Still waiting to be destroyed on Afghanistan. Ready when you are.

Might have an answer for the 'Castlemaine' bit in Jock's post above.

The Queensland beer known in Aussie simply as 'XXXX' is marketed in the UK as 'Castlemaine XXXX'. A TV advertising campaign when I was living in the UK for XXXX used to finish with the punchline 'Australian's wouldn't give a Castlemaine XXXX for anything else', or something to that affect, if I recall correctly. Maybe they didn't want it to get confused with 6X Bitter which is also a beer in England.

Jock was trying to make a topical joke, but it will only be poms mostly who get it.

And I'm on your side and the other voices of sanity in this thread. After a slow start with White Australia and all that, we have become in forty years one of the most successful, multicultural society's on the planet.

Something all Australian's can be proud of.

Thank you NumbNuts for the explanation. I had no idea about that. Well I will give a small acknowledge then for effort. But really, engaging on cultural issues on the basis of what you see on TV commercials is stretching it I think. Its like the Americans and the whole Shrimp on a Barbie thing, even though that probably does sum up Australia! Anyway, until you told me about 4X, I just assumed most Brits only know about Fosters. But I grew up a long way from Brissy.

Edited September 29, 2014 by Tep

[giddyup]

Tep Thank you for setting Jacky54 straight. Very easy to jump on the poor downtrodden aborigines bandwagon when you haven't a clue to the real situation.

[simple1]

The days of the white supremacist Brit fostering bigotry and racism in Australia are over but unfortunately there are still voices like yours to contend with.

You have made your position absolutely clear.

So let me reciprocate.

I could not give a Castlemaine XXXX what you write in this thread.

You should care! XXXX and Fosters are about the worst beers in Oz.

[coma]

This morning in Melbourne there is an ongoing series of counter- terrorism raids being conducted by AFP and Victorian police across 5 suburbs.

[JockPieandBeans]

The days of the white supremacist Brit fostering bigotry and racism in Australia are over but unfortunately there are still voices like yours to contend with.

You have made your position absolutely clear.

So let me reciprocate.

I could not give a Castlemaine XXXX what you write in this thread.

You should care! XXXX and Fosters are about the worst beers in Oz.

Simple 1

You missed the irony. It was a aimed at a poster that yesterday, had posts removed, along with his tag partner, because they were filled with racist, bigoted comments. The very thing that they accuse others of, who dare to have an opinion that is different from theirs.

That being said, numbnuts provided the correct explanation.

I will take your word that they are the worst beers in Australia, I wouldnt know, I dont drink alcohol. Let me just add, nothing to do with medical or religious reasons, purely my own decision.

Once again, let me take this opportunity, to thank you for your honesty yesterday. I have a feeling from reading your posts, that you yourself, may well be a Muslim. If that is the case, I double the applause that I gave you yesterday.

Thank you.

[H1w4yR1da]

I have a feeling from reading your posts, that you yourself, may well be a Muslim.

I reckon most of the apologists for Islam on this board have ties to the religion.

[JockPieandBeans]

I have a feeling from reading your posts, that you yourself, may well be a Muslim.

I reckon most of the apologists for Islam on this board have ties to the religion.

Most likely. Fortunately, some of us, contrary to what others may think, do not hate or vilify ALL Muslims.

I personally will applaud ANY Muslim, that at the very least, has the capacity to speak out against their fellow Muslims.

Then there are those that ignore, deny and deflect.

Anyway, Must be off, the gym awaits.

[simple1]

The days of the white supremacist Brit fostering bigotry and racism in Australia are over but unfortunately there are still voices like yours to contend with.

You have made your position absolutely clear.

So let me reciprocate.

I could not give a Castlemaine XXXX what you write in this thread.

You should care! XXXX and Fosters are about the worst beers in Oz.

Simple 1

You missed the irony. It was a aimed at a poster that yesterday, had posts removed, along with his tag partner, because they were filled with racist, bigoted comments. The very thing that they accuse others of, who dare to have an opinion that is different from theirs.

That being said, numbnuts provided the correct explanation.

I will take your word that they are the worst beers in Australia, I wouldnt know, I dont drink alcohol. Let me just add, nothing to do with medical or religious reasons, purely my own decision.

Once again, let me take this opportunity, to thank you for your honesty yesterday. I have a feeling from reading your posts, that you yourself, may well be a Muslim. If that is the case, I double the applause that I gave you yesterday.

Thank you.

Nope not a Muslim, as I have posted in other topics I do not believe in any mono theological faith. From my POV one way or another they are all nonsense.

[jacky54]

Just out of interest, does anyone know what the the penalty is in sharia for the denial of their faith in Islam, is it the same as for apostasy?

[chooka]

This morning in Melbourne there is an ongoing series of counter- terrorism raids being conducted by AFP and Victorian police across 5 suburbs.

Melbourne man gave $12k to US fighter in Syria, police allege

A Melbourne man arrested in counter-terrorism raids had provided $12,000 to a US citizen fighting in Syria and was about to transfer further funds, police allege.

A 23-year-old Seabrook man is expected to be charged with making funds available to a terrorist organisation.

Australian Federal Police assistant commissioner Neil Gaughan said the man allegedly provided $12,000 in funds to support a US citizen fighting in Syria.

Read more at http://www.9news.com.au/national/2014/09/30/07/34/police-raids-underway-melbourne-suburbs#mocQTTreWOZUybWx.99

[ozsamurai]

School funding to pay for radical Muslim preachers

Melbourne....

http://m.theaustralian.com.au/in-depth/terror/school-funding-to-pay-for-radical-muslim-preachers/story-fnpdbcmu-1227074423698?sv=1d65da5b21b798ef0df5c6bbdc390df

Oz

[samran]

The days of the white supremacist Brit fostering bigotry and racism in Australia are over but unfortunately there are still voices like yours to contend with.

You have made your position absolutely clear.

So let me reciprocate.

I could not give a Castlemaine XXXX what you write in this thread.

You should care! XXXX and Fosters are about the worst beers in Oz.

Simple 1

You missed the irony. It was a aimed at a poster that yesterday, had posts removed, along with his tag partner, because they were filled with racist, bigoted comments. The very thing that they accuse others of, who dare to have an opinion that is different from theirs.

That being said, numbnuts provided the correct explanation.

I will take your word that they are the worst beers in Australia, I wouldnt know, I dont drink alcohol. Let me just add, nothing to do with medical or religious reasons, purely my own decision.

Once again, let me take this opportunity, to thank you for your honesty yesterday. I have a feeling from reading your posts, that you yourself, may well be a Muslim. If that is the case, I double the applause that I gave you yesterday.

Thank you.

Gets his knickers in a twist because he was called a whinging pom?

There there darling, both incredibly factual statements. You are a pom and I see you are having a whinge.

[samran]

I have a feeling from reading your posts, that you yourself, may well be a Muslim.

I reckon most of the apologists for Islam on this board have ties to the religion.

Unlike in your case, where your brain has no ties to your mouth.

I must admit I've been to Dubai a couple of times, and backpacked through Syria and Jordan . I've even flown on emirates a couple if times. Clearly this makes me a sympathiser.

And as you know, Catholicism in my case and Islam go way back....not.

You should perhaps be speaking to jock. Many years in the ME, you know the mosts ferocious opponents are often turn out to be in the closet on particular issues.

But I'll leave it to you to cast the aspersions. You do it much better than me.

[Ulysses G.]

Just to remind you a Muslim is someone who is believer of Islam. As repeatedly stated, I am a not a Muslim.

I like most of your posts and I think that you are a good guy, but I do not think that it is dishonest to say that you are a Muslim - or used to be a Muslim - if you converted to Islam.

I understand that you do not really believe in it, but IMO, it might make you less objective than someone who was never involved with it at all.

Edited September 30, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[simple1]

Just to remind you a Muslim is someone who is believer of Islam. As repeatedly stated, I am a not a Muslim.

I like most of your posts and I think that you are a good guy, but I do not think that it is dishonest to say that you are a Muslim - or used to be a Muslim - if you converted to Islam.

I understand that you do not really believe in it, but IMO, it might make you less objective than someone who was never involved with it at all.

My 'involvement' with Islam was a 15 minute or so conversion ceremony in a language I do not understand, Arabic. Over a few hours learnt the responses in Arabic by rote. No prior study of the Koran, hadiths etc required. I have had some conversation regarding Islam with Thais & an Indonesian Muslim (fluent in English) who worked for me, none of them supported Jahadist ideology, the killings in the deep South and so on. All thought the extremism going on in the M.E. and elsewhere is ( excuse the phonetics "bah") crazy or as my wifes describes it "ugly".

I have read up on Islam, the history of the Arabs, the conflicts in Afghanistan, Israel, Iraq from differing POVs and so on. Gaining some knowledge on Islam, led me to the same conclusion I reached on Christian myths & theology; nonsense

Edited September 30, 2014 by simple1

[samran]

Don't you mean 'posts' rather than 'post'?

[transam]

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