Koh Tao murders: Night crime simulation at Sairee beach to look for clues

[webfact]

Night crime simulation at Sairee beach to look for clues



KOH TAO: -- Thai police conducted a two-hour crime simulation at the scene before dawn Friday where the two British tourists were killed to look into the exact time of the crime and wrap up evidence to support their earlier investigations for analysing who is or are real murderers.

The simulation started 1.00 a.m. Friday, almost the same time when the police suspected Ms Hannah Witheridge was raped and killed.

The crime simulation was supervised by Pol Gen Charumporn Suramanee, advisor to the Royal Thai Police commissioner.

The police believed the victim was raped because DNA examination revealed semen found inside the victim’s vagina were mixed, indicating more than one person was involved.

The DNA of the semen matched the cigarette butts the police found and collected from a log on the beach, about 50 metres from where her body lying dead.

Police said they have a witness telling them that three men, who were believed to be Myanmar workers, played guitars on the beach near the scene.

The police simulated the victim walking out of a beach restaurant and she might be followed by murderer to the log where cigarettes were found.

The police calculated the time spent and distances in order to compare with the Asian looking man captured on the CCTV video footage passing the camera back and forth. The man did not wear shirt.

The police also were sceptical about the blood stained hoe used in battering the two tourists to death.

A police officer said normally a criminal would throw away any weapon used in the murder to destroy evidence. But in this case, they were astonished when the hoe was not thrown away, just lied near the log and covered with a sack.

The murderer struck the victims with the hoe and then put it back to hide at the place, which was very unusual, an officer said.

This indicated that the murderer was a cold blooded person, he said.

The officer said now several hundreds of local and central police are combing the entire island looking for the Asian man on CCTV as he is now the most suspected person.

However another source said the police still did not rule out friends of one of the victims.

He cited the blood-soaked clothes found inside the luggage of Christopher Ware. Although he had been cleared that the blood was from cut while lighting firework but this was unusual.

Forensic police said wound from fireworks could not have produced so much blood on the clothes.

But the clothes the police seized from his room was soaked with blood which could not be caused by fireworks wound.

Both Christopher and his brother James have been released into the custody of the British embassy and returned home on a flight last night.

The police will meet this afternoon in Koh Tao to wrap up all findings and set the same direction in the probe.

Source: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/night-crime-simulation-sairee-beach-look-clues/


-- Thai PBS 2014-09-19

[khwaibah]

Still can not find that cow that departed the barn before the door was closed.

[HeijoshinCool]

The police also were sceptical about the blood stained hoe used in battering the two tourists to death.

A police officer said normally a criminal would throw away any weapon used in the murder to destroy evidence. But in this case, they were astonished when the hoe was not thrown away, just lied near the log and covered with a sack.

The murderer struck the victims with the hoe and then put it back to hide at the place, which was very unusual, an officer said.

This indicated that the murderer was a cold blooded person, he said.

Keep making public statements like this guys. It just shows your total lack of experience, and that you are unqualified to investigate a crime of this nature.

[terryp]

too much time has now passed , any potential evidence will have been contaminated or destroyed by now, this really has not shown the BiB at their best too much incompetence with the standard lazy attitude

[steelepulse]

When in doubt, point at the Myanmar guitar players. Brilliant!

[Thai at Heart]

Night crime simulation at Sairee beach to look for clues

KOH TAO: -- Thai police conducted a two-hour crime simulation at the scene before dawn Friday where the two British tourists were killed to look into the exact time of the crime and wrap up evidence to support their earlier investigations for analysing who is or are real murderers.

The simulation started 1.00 a.m. Friday, almost the same time when the police suspected Ms Hannah Witheridge was raped and killed.

The crime simulation was supervised by Pol Gen Charumporn Suramanee, advisor to the Royal Thai Police commissioner.

The police believed the victim was raped because DNA examination revealed semen found inside the victims vagina were mixed, indicating more than one person was involved.

The DNA of the semen matched the cigarette butts the police found and collected from a log on the beach, about 50 metres from where her body lying dead.

Police said they have a witness telling them that three men, who were believed to be Myanmar workers, played guitars on the beach near the scene.

The police simulated the victim walking out of a beach restaurant and she might be followed by murderer to the log where cigarettes were found.

The police calculated the time spent and distances in order to compare with the Asian looking man captured on the CCTV video footage passing the camera back and forth. The man did not wear shirt.

The police also were sceptical about the blood stained hoe used in battering the two tourists to death.

A police officer said normally a criminal would throw away any weapon used in the murder to destroy evidence. But in this case, they were astonished when the hoe was not thrown away, just lied near the log and covered with a sack.

The murderer struck the victims with the hoe and then put it back to hide at the place, which was very unusual, an officer said.

This indicated that the murderer was a cold blooded person, he said.

The officer said now several hundreds of local and central police are combing the entire island looking for the Asian man on CCTV as he is now the most suspected person.

However another source said the police still did not rule out friends of one of the victims.

He cited the blood-soaked clothes found inside the luggage of Christopher Ware. Although he had been cleared that the blood was from cut while lighting firework but this was unusual.

Forensic police said wound from fireworks could not have produced so much blood on the clothes.

But the clothes the police seized from his room was soaked with blood which could not be caused by fireworks wound.

Both Christopher and his brother James have been released into the custody of the British embassy and returned home on a flight last night.

The police will meet this afternoon in Koh Tao to wrap up all findings and set the same direction in the probe.

Source: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/night-crime-simulation-sairee-beach-look-clues/

-- Thai PBS 2014-09-19

So the cigarettes match the sperm.

Didn't someone admit that the trousers were an attempted plant, but the.friends are still suspects? Do either of the foreign friends smoke?

Which brand was it? This will give away a huge amount about the profile of the killer/s. Most farangs don't buy Kronthep....

[zydeco]

Thread number 13 on page 1 alone that is directly related to this story. Is anything else happening in Thailand, or is there some agenda at work here? Repetitive information, constantly pushed up to the top of the page.

[bmore99]

I read in the BP that the cigarettes are LM brand. Rather unlikely, yet not impossible, to be smoked by poor people.

[NongKhaiKid]

The BIB have been blundering their way through this from the very outset.

How can they simulate what happened when they know nothing about it starting with how many assailants were involved ?

In trying to show how efficient they are they are only proving the very opposite.

IF, big IF, they actually arrest someone and let's not get into guilt or otherwise we will have to go through all of this again with re-constructions and every man and his dog pointing.

How much torture will the victims' families have to endure ?

[Thai at Heart]

I read in the BP that the cigarettes are LM brand. Rather unlikely, yet not impossible, to be smoked by poor people.

Well that brand doesn't exist in the UK. So unlikely to have been bought by British tourist.

[borisloosebrain]

Confusing. The cops now say that the blood on the pants turned out to be dirt stains. ( Bangkok Post). So why are they still including it in their premature speculations

[waynethor]

I don't really understand why they're doing this at night. It seems that their main objective was calculate the time it takes to do things. This demonstrates that they haven't got a clue of how to conduct a proper investigation.

"The police simulated the victim walking out of a beach restaurant and she might be followed by murderer to the log where cigarettes were found.

The police calculated the time spent and distances in order to compare with the Asian looking man captured on the CCTV video footage passing the camera back and forth."

Do Thais believe that time changes at night? How much longer or shorter is a daytime minute compared to a nighttime minute?

[ClutchClark]

too much time has now passed , any potential evidence will have been contaminated or destroyed by now, this really has not shown the BiB at their best too much incompetence with the standard lazy attitude

Nonsense. A re-enactment can help to identify possible scenarios.

This can be a very useful practice to reconstruct the crime scene and is practiced by professional law enforcement agencies the world over.

[PiPiFFS]

I read in the BP that the cigarettes are LM brand. Rather unlikely, yet not impossible, to be smoked by poor people.

Well that brand doesn't exist in the UK. So unlikely to have been bought by British tourist.

Chang, and Sang Som are don't exist in the Uk yet they are drunk here in huge amounts. As someone that works with tourists I can tell you they are a popular brand here. Most Burmese or working Thai's smoke the very cheap rolling tobacco

[White Christmas13]

Night crime simulation at Sairee beach to look for clues

KOH TAO: -- Thai police conducted a two-hour crime simulation at the scene before dawn Friday where the two British tourists were killed to look into the exact time of the crime and wrap up evidence to support their earlier investigations for analysing who is or are real murderers.

The simulation started 1.00 a.m. Friday, almost the same time when the police suspected Ms Hannah Witheridge was raped and killed.

The crime simulation was supervised by Pol Gen Charumporn Suramanee, advisor to the Royal Thai Police commissioner.

The police believed the victim was raped because DNA examination revealed semen found inside the victims vagina were mixed, indicating more than one person was involved.

The DNA of the semen matched the cigarette butts the police found and collected from a log on the beach, about 50 metres from where her body lying dead.

Police said they have a witness telling them that three men, who were believed to be Myanmar workers, played guitars on the beach near the scene.

The police simulated the victim walking out of a beach restaurant and she might be followed by murderer to the log where cigarettes were found.

The police calculated the time spent and distances in order to compare with the Asian looking man captured on the CCTV video footage passing the camera back and forth. The man did not wear shirt.

The police also were sceptical about the blood stained hoe used in battering the two tourists to death.

A police officer said normally a criminal would throw away any weapon used in the murder to destroy evidence. But in this case, they were astonished when the hoe was not thrown away, just lied near the log and covered with a sack.

The murderer struck the victims with the hoe and then put it back to hide at the place, which was very unusual, an officer said.

This indicated that the murderer was a cold blooded person, he said.

The officer said now several hundreds of local and central police are combing the entire island looking for the Asian man on CCTV as he is now the most suspected person.

However another source said the police still did not rule out friends of one of the victims.

He cited the blood-soaked clothes found inside the luggage of Christopher Ware. Although he had been cleared that the blood was from cut while lighting firework but this was unusual.

Forensic police said wound from fireworks could not have produced so much blood on the clothes.

But the clothes the police seized from his room was soaked with blood which could not be caused by fireworks wound.

Both Christopher and his brother James have been released into the custody of the British embassy and returned home on a flight last night.

The police will meet this afternoon in Koh Tao to wrap up all findings and set the same direction in the probe.

Source: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/night-crime-simulation-sairee-beach-look-clues/

-- Thai PBS 2014-09-19

So the cigarettes match the sperm.

Didn't someone admit that the trousers were an attempted plant, but the.friends are still suspects? Do either of the foreign friends smoke?

Which brand was it? This will give away a huge amount about the profile of the killer/s. Most farangs don't buy Kronthep....

As far as I know the brand of the cigarette was LM not many Thais smoke them I guess

[umbanda]

All indicates that this was not done for a sole individual...and that's make more difficult to hide it. Money rules. This is a small Island. ..

Just offer 100.000thb for any information leading to the capture of the criminals and the Police will have many leads to follows. If the the murderers are local guys, probably did this before, and somebody knows something about....or was a survivor victim of them....

Edited September 19, 2014 by umbanda

[HeijoshinCool]

A quote from Surat Thani police chief Kiattipong Khaosam-ang:

The semen DNA matched DNA found on the butt of an LM cigarette found beside a rock 30-50 metres from the crime scene ….

Well, let's see here chief … you're publicizing the brand of cigarettes that might have been discarded at the scene by the perpetrators. Now they can be sure to switch brands.

Face is the only driving force in Thailand, and it rears it ugly head here again.

This is not about solving the murders, it's all about saving face. They think they are showing us they know something. Instead, they are jeopardizing the case, and, before those of us who do know crime scene investigative procedures, making fools of themselves and therefore in fact losing face.

[pasak]

If the mafia on the island are that powerful that they can orchestrate such a deliberately pathetic search for the murderer(s) and so conceal their families' murdering and twisted sons then it is time for an independent force with muscle to move in to solve this case. Anywhere else in the world this would have been sorted long ago. Grow a pair Thailand !

[amykat]

Regarding the cigarettes (mentioned in all the threads) ...is it not possible, that they have nothing to do with the killer(s)?

There seems to be an assumption that the killer was a smoker and these were his cigs ...on a public beach where it seems tons of people may hang out and smoke and leave butts behind.

If they found a beer bottle on the beach, would they assume it was the killer's also?

[Thai at Heart]

I read in the BP that the cigarettes are LM brand. Rather unlikely, yet not impossible, to be smoked by poor people.

Well that brand doesn't exist in the UK. So unlikely to have been bought by British tourist.

Chang, and Sang Som are don't exist in the Uk yet they are drunk here in huge amounts. As someone that works with tourists I can tell you they are a popular brand here. Most Burmese or working Thai's smoke the very cheap rolling tobacco

People smoke what they know, and most foreigners unless longer stayers don't care between 90 baht and 50. If they are American blend smokers they smoke Marlboro, unless there is nothing else available.

Most Brits are not american blend smokers.

[Thai at Heart]

Regarding the cigarettes (mentioned in all the threads) ...is it not possible, that they have nothing to do with the killer(s)?

There seems to be an assumption that the killer was a smoker and these were his cigs ...on a public beach where it seems tons of people may hang out and smoke and leave butts behind.

If they found a beer bottle on the beach, would they assume it was the killer's also?

Well reportedly (which is of course always subject to change at any whim or.moment) the cigarette DNA matches the semen which match none of the suspects so far.

So.fair to assume it matches the killer.

[ClutchClark]

A quote from Surat Thani police chief Kiattipong Khaosam-ang:

The semen DNA matched DNA found on the butt of an LM cigarette found beside a rock 30-50 metres from the crime scene .

Well, let's see here chief you're publicizing the brand of cigarettes that might have been discarded at the scene by the perpetrators. Now they can be sure to switch brands.

Face is the only driving force in Thailand, and it rears it ugly head here again.

This is not about solving the murders, it's all about saving face. They think they are showing us they know something. Instead, they are jeopardizing the case, and, before those of us who do know crime scene investigative procedures, making fools of themselves and therefore in fact losing face.

And if the police provided no details then you would say the lack of transparency is proof there is a cover-up.

The police are doing what police the world do--they are investigating a crime. Its a slow tedious process.

Why can't the members of this forum just let them do their job.

News flash folks. This is the real world. Its not CSI:Miami.

The case doesn't get closed in 50 minutes in real life.

[JohnThailandJohn]

Thread number 13 on page 1 alone that is directly related to this story. Is anything else happening in Thailand, or is there some agenda at work here? Repetitive information, constantly pushed up to the top of the page.

If it bleeds it leads throw in some sex and tourists into it and you have the perfect news story to drive increased traffic to a site like this. Only thing to get more attention here is when they remind people of alcohol bans during holidays ;-)

[NeverSure]

I'm tired. Do I remember in another thread that the cigarette had lipstick on it?

Does the DNA on the cigarette match the semen? Doesn't it say so?

Ladyboy?

[amykat]

Regarding the cigarettes (mentioned in all the threads) ...is it not possible, that they have nothing to do with the killer(s)?

There seems to be an assumption that the killer was a smoker and these were his cigs ...on a public beach where it seems tons of people may hang out and smoke and leave butts behind.

If they found a beer bottle on the beach, would they assume it was the killer's also?

Well reportedly (which is of course always subject to change at any whim or.moment) the cigarette DNA matches the semen which match none of the suspects so far.

So.fair to assume it matches the killer.

Well, it seems most of the reports are totally made-up BS for one thing ...but what I read was that the DNA "doesn't contradict" ...which seems to me, to mean, "but doesn't match" in some kind of DNA tech talk, meant to be vague and not look like a mistake?? Or someone just made up that answer, as a Thai-style "we can't admit we don't know the answer" ?

[ClutchClark]

I'm tired. Do I remember in another thread that the cigarette had lipstick on it?

Does the DNA on the cigarette match the semen? Doesn't it say so?

Ladyboy?

I am a bit surprised so much can be made from a cigarette found "30-50 meters" from the bodies.

Especially when it has been stated that the two victims were at a large social gathering earlier that same night in the same proximity.

What an amazing coincidence to find & test that particular cigarette and get a positive match.

I am surprised if they couldn't pull partial fingerprints from it.

[JOC]

What he really said, in not so many words: "We haven't got a clue."

[Jack Mountain]

Regarding the cigarettes (mentioned in all the threads) ...is it not possible, that they have nothing to do with the killer(s)?

There seems to be an assumption that the killer was a smoker and these were his cigs ...on a public beach where it seems tons of people may hang out and smoke and leave butts behind.

If they found a beer bottle on the beach, would they assume it was the killer's also?

The DNA found on the butts and the semen found do match ... according to BP.

[Lukecan]

Seems like a murder and then a gang rape IMHO.

99% it was done under the influence of drugs

If I was the cops I'd round up the drug dealers, they probably know who they are, and ask them who they sold drugs to that night and before, wadda and you got your list of possible suspects. If they dont cooperate I'd arrest the drug dealers via another excuse.

Edited September 19, 2014 by Lukecan

[ClutchClark]

Seems like a murder and then a gang rape IMHO.

99% it was done under the influence of drugs

If I was the cops I'd round up the drug dealers, they probably know who they are, and ask them who they sold drugs to that night and before, wadda and you got your list of possible suspects.

Yaba Ice.