Why can't they get their act together?

[bapak]

During this past week I have had dealings with five different Thai Consulates in the region with regards to Education Visa applications.

Four have some minor changes of no real consequences since the August 29 changes.

However, Singapore appears to have made up a new rule...

Foreigners applying for study courses in non-public schools, such as Thai language and culture courses, must provide documents to demonstrate that:

1. If the course is no longer than 5 months, the applicant will study at least 4 days per week, 2 hours per day.
2. If the course is longer than 5 months, the applicant will study at least 5 days per week, 5 hours per day.

So if you plan to study for 1 year, then your study hours are 25 per week x 12 months = 1300 hours.

Most of the students that I deal with could in no way afford such studies. Many are on pensions.

Why can't MFA come out with some firm rules for all Consulates to follow?

[brianp0803]

I think Thailand is changing the rules that an educational visa to study is Thai will be given to serious students whole main purpose is to come to Thailand to learn the Thai Language.

Reasonable?

When entering Thailand to learn Thai then 2 hours a week with after class assignments is reasonable.

It was not created as the cheapest way to stay in Thailand long term.

Student visas to study English in America I believe are 4-5 hours a day during the term of the visa.

Seems reasonable requirement but school cost and living costs cheaper in Thailand.

I would like to return to school to get my master's degree but don't want to spend the money so I won't do it.

Anything different about studying Thai language.

[paz]

It is well know that there is no common set of policies, so everyone has to adapt to the actual situation.

Just ask the school to prepare a letter for the first category, and apply for a single entry ED visa, for a three months course.

Further extensions will be handled by Immigration in Thailand and the consulate will have no say on that.

Otherwise you will have to apply in a different country.

[SoFarAndNear]

If they really make this a standard rule that you have to study 5 days per week 5 hours daily if your class is longer then 5 months I would say good bye to many thai language schools and also good bye to many many foreigners.

[brianp0803]

Yes it would eliminate people wanting cheap way to stay in Thailand a long time and only have serious students on student visas.

They need to create a new visa class without the pretense of being a student for people with limited amount of money wanting to live in Thailand a long time.

[bapak]

I think Thailand is changing the rules that an educational visa to study is Thai will be given to serious students whole main purpose is to come to Thailand to learn the Thai Language.

Reasonable?

When entering Thailand to learn Thai then 2 hours a week with after class assignments is reasonable.

It was not created as the cheapest way to stay in Thailand long term.

Student visas to study English in America I believe are 4-5 hours a day during the term of the visa.

Seems reasonable requirement but school cost and living costs cheaper in Thailand.

I would like to return to school to get my master's degree but don't want to spend the money so I won't do it.

Anything different about studying Thai language.

I went to University, both in Australia and USA, and no way did or other students study anything like 1300 hours during the year.

[Suradit69]

If they really make this a standard rule that you have to study 5 days per week 5 hours daily if your class is longer then 5 months I would say good bye to many thai language schools and also good bye to many many foreigners.

And that would be a bad thing because ...?

[SoFarAndNear]

Yes it would eliminate people wanting cheap way to stay in Thailand a long time and only have serious students on student visas.

They need to create a new visa class without the pretense of being a student for people with limited amount of money wanting to live in Thailand a long time.

I have met so many people in the classes over the years. My guess is that around 35% of the attendants are just come to live in thailand, so more then 2-3 years other 35% are mostly youngers (like me) who want to be here for 1-2 years or so. And just 20% had a work permit and really needed to learn the language for business reasons. So all in all I would say school going to be soon very quiet.

How many people do really seriously want to learn thai if they don't even have a chance to learn more of the country. But after all these new visa regulations you have to think if this country really the place you want to be?! If you want to stay longer then a few weeks per year you have to pay serious $$

Edited September 19, 2014 by SoFarAndNear

[brianp0803]

At university I studied 12-16 hours a week with homework every night and testing to insure reasonable progress towards a degree.

Teaching at a language school, international students attended 4 hours a day for a few months at a time. Too expensive for long periods of time.

The main purpose was English immersion with a side benefit of living in America.

[Bosse137]

First I have to admit,that I do not have any experience of these language schools,but why is it,that those who are to young to get retirement or workvisa want to spend time,money and work to learn Thai,when, after they are done,they are not longer allowed to live here...?Not very logical is it. Ok,ok,I know,it is a way to be able to stay here at least for the time it takes to learn,but still,there is something odd about learning a language for a country,that you are not allowed to later live in.

[paz]

First I have to admit,that I do not have any experience of these language schools,but why is it,that those who are to young to get retirement or workvisa want to spend time,money and work to learn Thai,when, after they are done,they are not longer allowed to live here...?Not very logical is it. Ok,ok,I know,it is a way to be able to stay here at least for the time it takes to learn,but still,there is something odd about learning a language for a country,that you are not allowed to later live in.

You are allowed as long you're flexible and have enough money. Most countries are like that.

[brianp0803]

One poster previously was complaining that his consulate for a non - working education visa was requiring financial proof of ability to support yourself (western style) for the length of the visa. (About 25,000 Bhat a month).

I think reasonable idea since not allowed to work.

When working I don't spend as much money compared to studying 4 hours a week and the rest free time.

But I do think better if one set of rules, uniformly understood and enforced over an extended period of time.

Statements such as

"the rules this month at this consulate are ..."

is not good.

[sustento]

I think Thailand is changing the rules that an educational visa to study is Thai will be given to serious students whole main purpose is to come to Thailand to learn the Thai Language.

Reasonable?

When entering Thailand to learn Thai then 2 hours a week with after class assignments is reasonable.

It was not created as the cheapest way to stay in Thailand long term.

Student visas to study English in America I believe are 4-5 hours a day during the term of the visa.

Seems reasonable requirement but school cost and living costs cheaper in Thailand.

I would like to return to school to get my master's degree but don't want to spend the money so I won't do it.

Anything different about studying Thai language.

I went to University, both in Australia and USA, and no way did or other students study anything like 1300 hours during the year.

Does learning a language require the same educational regime as getting a degree?

[manarak]

Most of the students that I deal with could in no way afford such studies. Many are on pensions.

That's because most of your "students" aren't students.

But 5 days with 5 hours minimum is harsh.

Edited September 19, 2014 by manarak

[TheSpade]

And that would be a bad thing because ...?

And remind me why you believe it would be a good thing?

Who cares WHY someone chooses to enroll at a language school and learn Thai even if it is just a means to stay here long term.

I don't see how there's anything wrong with that.

You like the country, you want to live here, there's very limited visa options for you because you don't fit certain criteria so you choose to study as a means to remain in the country long term.

Big deal.

And btw, no I'm not on an education visa nor ever have been.

But if I did ever consider it then it would be so I could stay in Thailand long term and to learn Thai second.

Yes it would eliminate people wanting cheap way to stay in Thailand a long time and only have serious students on student visas.

"Serious students" would likely make up about 1% of the total people on ED visas.

There's not that many reasons to learn Thai other than if you live here or plan to be here for a long time.

Very few people want to learn Thai for the sake of learning Thai or because it's a useful language to know.

Whilst I agree on clamping down on fake schools that are just visa mills and people who never actually go to any classes I don't think someone signing up for a language school to get an ED visa simply because they want to stay in Thailand long term without too much hassle is a big deal.

If they aren't doing anything illegal whilst here or working when they shouldn't be what harm do they do?

Just another person with money to spend who gets NOTHING back from Thailand...no benefits, no freebies, no hand outs.

Only putting money, no matter how small, into the economy.

I think Thailand would find it's self loosing a lot of revenue from ED visas, language fees, and the money these people spend in country. Maybe not much in the grand scheme of things but it all adds up.

The more barriers they put in people who love Thailand want to come here and spend money the less with bother to come and overall that could tally up to a large amount of money out of the economy.

It's not as if the countries reputation isn't already struggling with coups, protests, bomb and gun attacks, murders of young tourists, military rule, curfews etc

[sustento]

"Serious students" would likely make up about 1% of the total people on ED visas.

There's not that many reasons to learn Thai other than if you live here or plan to be here for a long time.

Very few people want to learn Thai for the sake of learning Thai or because it's a useful language to know.

Whilst I agree on clamping down on fake schools that are just visa mills and people who never actually go to any classes I don't think someone signing up for a language school to get an ED visa simply because they want to stay in Thailand long term without too much hassle is a big deal.

Would you feel the same way about foreigners who manipulated the visa rules of your home country in order to stay there simply because they wanted to stay there?

[brianp0803]

If I am asking permission to enter a country for the purpose of learning their language then I believe a program with measurable goals is reasonable.

If the goal is to learn about the country then the proper visa is a tourist visa.

Many places allow double and triple tourist visas allowing 6-9 months for the purpose of exploring and learning about the country.

Longer periods are not a true tourist and should have a different visa.

If I fail to make progress at a university I will be kicked out. Even with money. Stating I enjoy the university is not enough.

I think reasonable for Thailand to require progress on learning Thai for granting extension of stay based on desire to learn Thai.

My desire to go to medical school is not enough without the ability to learn the subject matter.

[TheSpade]

Would you feel the same way about foreigners who manipulated the visa rules of your home country in order to stay there simply because they wanted to stay there?

Honestly don't care.

However the big difference between my country and Thailand however is in my home country people can hop off the plane and almost instantly start claiming benefits, free housing, free medical treatment and all manner of other things.

So there's an incentive for people to go there and abuse the system for their own benefit.

None of those things exist in Thailand, and definitely not for foreigners, so it cant be compared.

[sustento]

Would you feel the same way about foreigners who manipulated the visa rules of your home country in order to stay there simply because they wanted to stay there?

Honestly don't care.

However the big difference between my country and Thailand however is in my home country people can hop off the plane and almost instantly start claiming benefits, free housing, free medical treatment and all manner of other things.

Can you provide some credible evidence of your claims please?

[brianp0803]

5 hours a day 5 days a week of book study would over - heat my brain.

But schools in America offering educational visas to learn English mix things up with learning and games and projects practicing English.

[brianp0803]

Since most people on educational visas do not really want to be bothered attending class (but may do if required), maybe better just give the money to the government (maybe that is the Thai Elite Visa)

[brianp0803]

It isn't Thailand's responsibility to provide a cheap way to live in their country.

They want our money or specialized skills.

But I am happy I can retire in Thailand and live better than in America. I wouldn't want to retire in America with less than $80,000 per year but can be comfortable in Thailand.

[ubonjoe]

It is time to get back on topic. OP was commenting of differences between embassies and consulates not all the other things that have been discussed.

Using the Singapore embassy as an example was a poor choice. I think that may be the same rules they have had for some time. An embassy or consulate for a single entry visa should not even take into consideration the number of hours and etc. because that will be up to immigration to set the requirements to get an extension.

The embassy in Vientiane has not changed their requirements. http://vientiane.thaiembassy.org/vientiane/en/consular/consular_check/

- Non–Immigrant "ED"

This type of visa is issued to applicant who wishes to enter the Kingdom for the purpose of studying, attending seminar, training session, or internship.
Document required are;
1. Letter of acceptance from the concerned academic institute/organisation
2. Copy of registration certificate of the concerned academic institute
3. For those who wish to study, an official letter from the Ministry of Education of Thailand, or other sub-authorities
concerned, approving the enrolment of foreign students is also required
4. Academic record and the Student ID (if currently studying)
5. For those who wish to attend seminar, or training session, or internship, a recommendation letter from the
concerned organisation addressed to the Embassy is also required

The MFA website only has this. "- Transcript / Letter of acceptance from the concerned schools/universities or institutes ("ED")" http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/services/123/15398-Issuance-of-Visa.html

[JLCrab]

5 hours a day 5 days a week of book study would over - heat my brain.

But schools in America offering educational visas to learn English mix things up with learning and games and projects practicing English.

Requirements for a Thai student studying in the USA:

A ‘full course of study’ ... means:

(4) Study in any other language, liberal arts, fine arts, or other non-vocational training program, certified by a designated school official to consist of at least eighteen clock hours of attendance a week if the dominant part of the course of study consists of classroom instruction, or to consist of at least twenty-two clock hours a week if the dominant part of the course of study consists of laboratory work;

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/87373.pdf

[gemguy]

There has always been requirements that are somewhat of a pain in the butt....now there are a few more pain in the butt requirements.

It is recommend that you have the Thai language school arrange as much as possible for you as that is part of their business while many schools strive to accommodate you while helping you to take care of all the paper work and documentation etc.

Some can even arrange the immigration status without you leaving Thailand.

If you try to do it on your own then it can, all too often, turn into a somewhat challenging affair.

Cheers

[ubonjoe]

A per my earlier post some off topic post (troll) posts have been removed. From now on if a post disappears it has been removed. No further notice will be given.

[bertty]

How does being a student allow anyone to live in Thailand cheaply ?

it costs 20-25 thousand to get on a course, which is somewhat more than a double or triple entry visa. As far as I'm aware students don't get discounted accommodation or free food. And as for those that don't study what will they be doing whilst they should be I school ? out spending money maybe.

While it maybe an easy way to stay in the country it is certainly not the cheapest way.

[recom273]

I dont understand what the problem is .. I would say they got it the wrong way around.

If you want to learn to speak Thai

a) study for less than 5 months, you should study 5 hours a day - If you want to study the language over a longer period, lesson hours should be less, but you study at university and provide coursework / self study and assignments.

I have been through Thai school because I wanted to learn to speak Thai, I studied 4 hours a day, and a further 2-3 hours homework. Within 5 months at 4 hours a day, you should be able to speak/read/write Thai to a pretty good level.

But that wouldn't suit your long term holiday - would it ?

If you flipped the scenario, if you were an immigrant in the States or UK, learning then English 2 hours a day isn't going to do anything for you. The language school would come under scrutiny of some education depart and the school closed down.

Why would anyone want to learn Thai is beyond me ? unless you are married and living here ( where there are visas available to you ) or retired ( where there are available visas ) then the Thai ( along with Indonesian ) language has got to be the most useless language in the world.

[chrisinth]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

At university I studied 12-16 hours a week with homework every night and testing to insure reasonable progress towards a degree.

Teaching at a language school, international students attended 4 hours a day for a few months at a time. Too expensive for long periods of time.

The main purpose was English immersion with a side benefit of living in America.

As a matter of interest, how many MOE approved language schools charge per lesson?

I thought people paid for the course, no matter how the hours were split up?

IMO, what the new regulation changes do (if they are official and recognized by the schools) is to shorten the period required to complete the course, and in so doing, shorten the length of time a person abusing the Ed visa can remain in the country.

Could be wrong though.....................

[JDGRUEN]

The Thai language school I have gone to in Ao Nang charges 30K Baht for a one year Thai language ED visa course that has been run at two 2 hour classes each week. Upping this to what the Singapore Consulate/Embassy demands would mean such a school would likely begin to charge 60 to 90K Baht for a year long course which would destroy the whole program. When approaching 100,000 Baht per year then the Elite Card comes into serious play for those who can afford it. Even if a school could offer such a course at 50K Baht a year - it would still begin to make the whole thing unworkable.

I am not on an ED Visa - just went to a 10 week class anyway... so it does not affect me.

This year Thai immigration has on several occasions thrown out trial balloons to see the reaction and what would happen with the process of a stricter regulation ... I hope this is not one of them and will go away soon.

Upping the hours to a near full time situation is IMO nothing more than an effort to keep people from possibly having time to work at a job. And that is all it is - having little or nothing to do with what they might believe is required and proper for a language education.

Edited September 20, 2014 by JDGRUEN