KTM - MV Agusta Test Ride - 21.09.14

[andreandre]

Somebody who parks his Honda CBR650F wannabe and saddles a real sportsbike for the first time review is probably not the right person to give a review.

Hammer meet Nail

whistling:

Nope

Sorry dude your always complaining that others don't let

someone have an opinion here yet.........Your 1st in line to diss anyone who does

have an opinion that does not match yours .....or Honda's

Listen I appreciate your enthusiasm for bikes...I do really

But anyone who has been here a few years knows while your enthusiastic your also the

minister of disinformation here.

I originally thought it was just that English is not your 1st language so you often mess it up

but after reading your posts long enough IMO I know you have a wealth of no idea.

That is fine.....Opinions are like A-holes everyone has one & is entitled to it...That was mine

But you have to realize not everyone is buying yours & if they say so in so many words ....

Then suck it up....Don't get all defensive

Richard said something & I agreed.

Your review of anything not Honda is tainted period

Whether that be due to lack of experience or just rose colored glasses is not our concern

But some of us have been around the block. If you need to believe that agreeing with another poster

is somehow butt kissing well so be it

100% spot on mania....ll2 gets his knickers in a knot if anyone says anything at all that does not agree with his very biased opinions..often totally misinformed ones at that

This is not your personal blogsite ll2..time to get down off your high horse and let others post as they see things,without your aggressive attacks on them at every occassion.

[casualbiker]

Well I think ll2 could improve his writing style a little so as to be less confrontational BUT I would also add WHO else has actually written ANY road test reports of these bikes on TV? That's right no one, not me not Richard no one!

[taninthai]

The problem is that you ride, as you tell on this forum, Japanese motorcycles, and while Honda is trying its best to make sportsbikes for everybody, the Italians are still trying to make sportsbikes that only real sportsbike lovers would appreciate.

Anybody who rides a Honda 500cc, the new Honda 650cc inline-four, or any of the cheap Kawasaki inline-four 650 or even the more powerful 800cc will find that a Italian motorcycle is different. First for everybody the fueling seems to be failing... and most people would be be thinking how so much people could write so much positive reviews

The thing is that what you all think are sportsbikes are actual wannabe sportsbikes, and while a wannabe sportsbikes now-a-day is a pretty good it will never beat a real sportsbike....

Sportsbikes by definition tell that the owner knows how to handle the motorcycle. Somebody who parks his Honda CBR650F wannabe and saddles a real sportsbike for the first time review is probably not the right person to give a review.

With this I also refer to LL2 review of the Benelli BN600 in which he describes several problems, while other people who bought the Benelli BN600 as a cheaper second bike to a Ducati or other Italian motorcycles seem to have no problems.

complettely agree with this.

[khunjamesjohnson]

I would like a Duke 690 but the price is way out of line. Embarrassing to own.

If you pull up next to someone at the stop light, they look at the bike and think, "what kind of idiot pays $20,000 for a single?"

[eisfeld]

I would like to thank LL2 for posting the information about the event aswell as his review. He posted an honest review from his perspective and experience.

I cannot judge how accurate his reports are because I am very much a beginner when it comes to big bikes. But I appreciate someone putting the effort into a post describing a test ride and even posting pictures without an agenda. That being said, I think your reactions can be a bit over the top if someone disagrees with you, LL2

On the other hand I also think passively aggressive posts are not the way to improve on anything, it just starts fights.

LL2s review might feel wrong to some but I think a bike feels very different to people depending on their background with bikes. I would most likely feel intimidated by something like the Super Duke 1290 and tell you how it's not so easy to ride. Some other guy spending half his time on a track would totally disagree with this point of view and tell me what a newbie I am and how I know nothing about bikes. Which would be actually true but I would like to see everyone be less aggressive here and accept different points of view.

Non-liter bikes are not "wannabe" in my opinion, they are just different. They don't try to be super sports and that's totally fine. There are lots of different types of riders and thankfully lots of different kinds of bikes - everyone can find a match for his preferences.

Some describe japanese sub 1000cc bikes as dull but they do make for good commuters in many cases, better than the italians usually. But to those guys they are indeed dull, we just have to keep in mind that they are not dull to everyone.

The italians make bikes that are more emotional, something that makes you lust for them. But I think we have to all aggree that they also sometimes have certain traits to them that are deal breakers to some. This is not unique to italians, japanese bikes have those too. Take the MT-09 for example which many people describe as having difficult fueling aswell as sub-par suspension. Personally I would love to own the new Monster 821 as I think it looks marvelous (in white) and sounds amazing. I would probably jizz every time I twist the throttle though the reports about excessive heat on the legs/thighs and the missing fuel indicator mean I will most likely not buy one. Then there is KTM which is (in Thailand) unfortunately a bit overpriced and some models have a bit too much vibration for my liking. Otherwise very well engineered bikes.

But you know what? for every single bike that was ever manufactured, there are owners who couldn't be happier with any other bike and that's awesome.

[ll2]

Somebody who parks his Honda CBR650F wannabe and saddles a real sportsbike for the first time review is probably not the right person to give a review.

Hammer meet Nail

whistling:

Nope

Sorry dude your always complaining that others don't let

someone have an opinion here yet.........Your 1st in line to diss anyone who does

have an opinion that does not match yours .....or Honda's

Listen I appreciate your enthusiasm for bikes...I do really

But anyone who has been here a few years knows while your enthusiastic your also the

minister of disinformation here.

I originally thought it was just that English is not your 1st language so you often mess it up

but after reading your posts long enough IMO I know you have a wealth of no idea.

That is fine.....Opinions are like A-holes everyone has one & is entitled to it...That was mine

But you have to realize not everyone is buying yours & if they say so in so many words ....

Then suck it up....Don't get all defensive

Richard said something & I agreed.

Your review of anything not Honda is tainted period

Whether that be due to lack of experience or just rose colored glasses is not our concern

But some of us have been around the block. If you need to believe that agreeing with another poster

is somehow butt kissing well so be it

Oh really mania?

Sorry man, i am not posting these to buy you or anyone here. Where did you get that idea?)

and of course not to meet your or others stereotype expectations! Like italian bikes are greatest, they are the real sport bikes, they have soul etc funny.

anyone can criticise what i write but what you are guys doing is attacking or criticising?

And as a common courtesy in a forum, you have to respect other's ideas too, right?

Maybe with a thank you for someone spending time and effort writing this type of information here? And then criticise?

In your post you say i need to suck it up and respect ideas and words.

But what you are doing?

You are kissing the a...ss of someone doing business here assuming things about me in a wrong way, lets say lying. So where is the respect of ideas and suck it up going mania?

You learn how to suck it up first and how to respect ideas so please keep the morale lessons to yourself!

I believe you and some others are the ones getting defensive here like a kid, sorry man. Jealousy, ego whatever you call it. Not everyone is stupid here. It is clear from your posts and many is seeing that.

And speaking of disinformation, please check posts. I m not saying or i never said i am an authority here but you are not definitely too.

Honestly, man up and confess, do you really approve richard's childish post? Does that post criticise what i write or just attacking me? Do you really approve what he said about me being first time on a real sport bike? What is a real sport bike?

With your derailing posts recently, do you add something to this thread or forum?

Please check it out mania. I know you are a nice guy with experience and knowledge but they are pretty much tainted now with these type of childish posts of yours.

My review has nothing to do with honda! Of course i will compare these bikes with what i have! C mon, you were not expecting a comparison with a ninja 250, right?

After these post if yours, it does not mean if you are around the block or what, sorry mania.

Edited September 23, 2014 by ll2

[ll2]

The problem is that you ride, as you tell on this forum, Japanese motorcycles, and while Honda is trying its best to make sportsbikes for everybody, the Italians are still trying to make sportsbikes that only real sportsbike lovers would appreciate.

Anybody who rides a Honda 500cc, the new Honda 650cc inline-four, or any of the cheap Kawasaki inline-four 650 or even the more powerful 800cc will find that a Italian motorcycle is different. First for everybody the fueling seems to be failing... and most people would be be thinking how so much people could write so much positive reviews

The thing is that what you all think are sportsbikes are actual wannabe sportsbikes, and while a wannabe sportsbikes now-a-day is a pretty good it will never beat a real sportsbike....

Sportsbikes by definition tell that the owner knows how to handle the motorcycle. Somebody who parks his Honda CBR650F wannabe and saddles a real sportsbike for the first time review is probably not the right person to give a review.

With this I also refer to LL2 review of the Benelli BN600 in which he describes several problems, while other people who bought the Benelli BN600 as a cheaper second bike to a Ducati or other Italian motorcycles seem to have no problems.

complettely agree with this.

thanks guys, this way i can see the ego levels, jealous guys, or the ones sitting on their asses doing nothing, not riding their bikes, not attending anything bike related, contributing nothing - from UK! - and kissing ass..ses. and coming here doing keyboard fight!

This way i can see who is real who is fake

Maybe tanin you have to buy a Benelli? Maybe Richard can sell you one

[H1w4yR1da]

The problem is that you ride, as you tell on this forum, Japanese motorcycles, and while Honda is trying its best to make sportsbikes for everybody, the Italians are still trying to make sportsbikes that only “real” sportsbike lovers would appreciate.

As someone who had left the ducatisti fold for a rice rocket, I wonder if you could expand on that a little? Thanks.

[taninthai]

Wow talk about over react LL,Richard made a valid point about Honda making sports style bikes for the masses and road and track riding ,while other companies make bikes pure sports orientated and you go crazy,take my Daytona 675 for example great bike on the track but commutingvirtually impossible due to riding position andbike runs unbelievably hot and I mean real hot. Chill out man

And yes I'm in the UK at the moment but still spend time in Thailand ,and I ride bikes everyday attend group rides every weekend and 4 trackdays in 5 weeks so I hope some of your comments were not all aimed at me.

What do people have to be jealous of 'll the Honda is a great bike but it's certainly not the best bike out there .

Edited September 23, 2014 by taninthai

[mania]

Oh really mania?

Sorry man, i am not posting these to buy you or anyone here. Where did you get that idea?)

and of course not to meet your or others stereotype expectations! Like italian bikes are greatest, they are the real sport bikes, they have soul etc funny.

anyone can criticise what i write but what you are guys doing is attacking or criticising?

And as a common courtesy in a forum, you have to respect other's ideas too, right?

Maybe with a thank you for someone spending time and effort writing this type of information here? And then criticise?

In your post you say i need to suck it up and respect ideas and words.

But what you are doing?

You are kissing the a...ss of someone doing business here assuming things about me in a wrong way, lets say lying. So where is the respect of ideas and suck it up going mania?

You learn how to suck it up first and how to respect ideas so please keep the morale lessons to yourself!

I believe you and some others are the ones getting defensive here like a kid, sorry man. Jealousy, ego whatever you call it. Not everyone is stupid here. It is clear from your posts and many is seeing that.

And speaking of disinformation, please check posts. I m not saying or i never said i am an authority here but you are not definitely too.

Honestly, man up and confess, do you really approve richard's childish post? Does that post criticise what i write or just attacking me? Do you really approve what he said about me being first time on a real sport bike? What is a real sport bike?

With your derailing posts recently, do you add something to this thread or forum?

Please check it out mania. I know you are a nice guy with experience and knowledge but they are pretty much tainted now with these type of childish posts of yours.

My review has nothing to do with honda! Of course i will compare these bikes with what i have! C mon, you were not expecting a comparison with a ninja 250, right?

After these post if yours, it does not mean if you are around the block or what, sorry mania.

Oh Boy somebody needs a nap

Listen I do not have my decoder ring but I am going to try to

Make out what your saying here...except that last line which I have no idea

what "it does not mean if you are around the block or what" means

First off you keep saying because I agree with a posters

opinion I am “kissing the a...ss of someone”

How can my agreeing with a poster I do not know or will ever meet be construed as kissing up?

No LL sorry it was my opinion/agreement to his post period...nothing gained in any other way as kissing up implies.

My agreeing with him has nothing to do with brand X being better than brand Y

Yes everyone is entitled to an opinion of course….

But yours are always the same…everything sucks has fueling problems etc. etc.

Even if you only had a short test ride.

Don’t even get me started on what you say about anything from China

Recently in another thread your already telling folks Brand H will have better torque etc than a bike whose tires have not even hit the street yet.

But a classic example of your heading off the deep end is your recent post in another thread

where you basically are warning the Mods here at Thai Visa that they better watch it as your seeing too much Honda defamation????

That TV may be in trouble with Honda???

Are you serious? Yes there are defamation laws about defaming an individually owned business or an individual in

Thailand but that is a far cry from giving an opinion about some Corporate brand/product your not happy with.

Do you think if I say McDonalds burgers really suck & are salty that means McDonalds will come here & sue TV or me?

But to understand how truly nuts it is for you to say that one need only look at any of your posts on other than Honda bikes…especially China brands right?

Was that defamation? Should the mods be worried? Of course not!

So yes to sum it up

1- Yes I did agree with Richard & still do.

2- I do not think best bikes come from any particular country.

3- I do not think I derail threads…If your referring to me & Charley joking in the

Honda 300 thread..That is all it was & both he & I were with it fine till you barged in all Honda Hotheaded

With the “Well I am sober & say ........” which started a whole other riot regarding street racing etc....Talk about derail??

4- No Jealousy or ego here…For what? Jealous of what?

Anyway as I said I appreciate your enthusiasm for bikes. I appreciate many of your posts.

But sometimes your just a bit too far into it & get too defensive. Jai Yen Yen dude

Edited September 23, 2014 by mania

[H1w4yR1da]

Wow talk about over react LL

Well, I guess I'd be a little put out if I did regular track days, a whole load of riding, (unlike many posters here I reckon) test rode a bunch of bikes and put a shitload of pics on the forum only to be called a 'wannabe' because I don't ride a large cc Italian bike.

[mania]

Wow talk about over react LL

Well, I guess I'd be a little put out if I did regular track days, a whole load of riding, (unlike many posters here I reckon) test rode a bunch of bikes and put a shitload of pics on the forum only to be called a 'wannabe' because I don't ride a large cc Italian bike.

It looks like that but I honestly think it is like this............

Richard owns & rides that bike & felt it was the usual type of "ride report" & with LL I use that term

very loosely

He/Richard was obviously upset by what he saw as the usual..........everything that does not say Honda sucks

That aside LL himself reacts the exact same way many times here when someone says something they do not like about a Honda...

He comes back all upset saying how can you say this or that...do you own it? Ok BS then

Basically that is about how I am seeing this Hoo Haa

Anyway I guess folks get passionate about their bikes eh?

Sometimes say things when heated etc.

Edited September 23, 2014 by mania

[Dutchbike]

Meanwhile...... after the test event Anniie hurried home to not miss anything from this discussion on Thai visa.

[ll2]

Wow talk about over react LL,Richard made a valid point about Honda making sports style bikes for the masses and road and track riding ,while other companies make bikes pure sports orientated and you go crazy,take my Daytona 675 for example great bike on the track but commutingvirtually impossible due to riding position andbike runs unbelievably hot and I mean real hot. Chill out man

And yes I'm in the UK at the moment but still spend time in Thailand ,and I ride bikes everyday attend group rides every weekend and 4 trackdays in 5 weeks so I hope some of your comments were not all aimed at me.

What do people have to be jealous of 'll the Honda is a great bike but it's certainly not the best bike out there .

no richard is pissed of just bc he has business with chinese bikes, he owns a mv agusta and these kid of information or photos are never in his website.

he is just attacking me on these tanin.

open your eyes my friend. no one is saying honda is doing the best bikes on earth, daytona is also not the best bike around.

tanin best bike is the one fits your needs and riding style the best and you know that while owning a honda crf.

hope to see you around thailand.

[yankee99]

ok lets leave Mcdonalds out of it. BTW Big Macs are only $2 this month in the usa just saying!

[Gforcejunkypkt]

Yeah i was there.

And unleashed the beast!!! Ktm superduke 1290.

Man what a machine and power! Saraburi int. Circuit was short and tight so could not push it hard but yeah what a beast!

Also test rode ktm 1190 adventure, duke 690 and duke 200 for maxed out fun!

I think duke 690 is the best single cylinder machine i rode and it was great at the tight track.

Ktm 1190 is a very easy to ride bike, powerful and handles great, really surprised sometime felt like a sport bike! Duke 200 made in india etc still fun! After other bikes, it was feeling like a donkey though both at power and suspension departments. Could not ride duke 390 and duke 690 smc.

Also rode mv agusta f4, f3 and rivale. Rivale was great as expected. It was smoother than other mvs and feeling so fast with good handling.

F3 was cool too. They said they use it for racing. Great sound and agility and punchy!

but f4 was feeling heavy and glitchy. It was too much for the track hard to ride bike.

Ktm duke 690 was feeling the best on that short, tight and not the smoothest track.

Anniiee was nice.

Overall, it was a cool event.

And of course many thanks for Sirichai Motorsales for arranging this cool event and good luck for them in their business. Extra thanks for free food, drinks, chain oil, air pressure and helmet cleaning service.

Honestly speaking, missed my honda cbr650f during the event for its smoothness, great fuelling and total modulation and it was good fun to ride back home! Both ktm twins and 3 - 4 cylinder mvs was shaky or glitchy or hot what people call character and soul but not annoying luckily.

None of the bikes showed any temperament during the 'very hot' day which was a good sign.

Still man, KTM and MV Agusta are great bikes. Love to have a rivale or superduke 1290 but expensive here.

Wow, lucky you bro! I really, really want a Duke 690! When I add another bike to the collection it's for sure going to be some kind of super motard -- the Duke if I can afford it, if not will settle for a Suzuki DR-Z 400sm that I can soup up...

[mania]

ok lets leave Mcdonalds out of it. BTW Big Macs are only $2 this month in the usa just saying!

yeah I meant to put a disclaimer in there that McDonalds was just an example &

I do in fact eat a burger from them now & again

[Gforcejunkypkt]

The problem is that you ride, as you tell on this forum, Japanese motorcycles, and while Honda is trying its best to make sportsbikes for everybody, the Italians are still trying to make sportsbikes that only “real” sportsbike lovers would appreciate.

Anybody who rides a Honda 500cc, the new Honda 650cc inline-four, or any of the cheap Kawasaki inline-four 650 or even the more powerful 800cc will find that a Italian motorcycle is different. First for everybody the fueling seems to be failing... and most people would be be thinking how so much people could write so much positive reviews

The thing is that what you all think are sportsbikes are actual wannabe sportsbikes, and while a wannabe sportsbikes now-a-day is a pretty good it will never beat a real sportsbike....

Sportsbikes by definition tell that the owner knows how to handle the motorcycle. Somebody who parks his Honda CBR650F “wannabe” and saddles a real sportsbike for the first time review is probably not the right person to give a review.

With this I also refer to LL2 review of the Benelli BN600 in which he describes several problems, while other people who bought the Benelli BN600 as a cheaper second bike to a Ducati or other Italian motorcycles seem to have no problems.

With all due respect Richard-BKK, <deleted> is a "real" sportsbike lover? There's no denying Italians put their hearts into their bikes and manufacturing processes, I truly would love to have one some day -- but to say or imply anyone riding anything non-Italian (or European) is a "wannabe" is ludicrous and patronizing at best. If you ever bring your best Italian bike to Phuket just let me know, and then witness how my non-Italian, Japanese-made Honda NSR250R absolutely obliterates and embarrasses your hi-so steed in the coastal, cliff-side twisties! Then maybe we'll see who is the wannabe and who is the real sportsbiker

[wantan]

Gforcewhatever, Richard was talking about wannabe sportbikes, not wannabe sportbikers... a big difference imo...

[JonnyF]

The problem is that you ride, as you tell on this forum, Japanese motorcycles, and while Honda is trying its best to make sportsbikes for everybody, the Italians are still trying to make sportsbikes that only real sportsbike lovers would appreciate.

As someone who had left the ducatisti fold for a rice rocket, I wonder if you could expand on that a little? Thanks.

The 848 is not known as Ducati's finest hour. From what I gather you were commuting on it in Bangkok for several years which is kind of like buying a Ferrari to drive to 711.

I had a 99 CR250 which turned like a ocean cruiser. I also loaned a friends 2004 R1 for 6 months that constantly burnt my legs. It doesn't make all Jap bikes bad bikes any more than your 848 getting some issues after 30k kms makes all Ducati's unreliable. My girlfriends 2012 Honda City has been in the garage 5 times in 3 months, we never expected that from Honda but I don't bear a grudge towards them. It happens.

I get that you love your gsxr, I love mine as well. But I don't get this concept about 'changing team' from the 'Ducatisti' to rice rockets...

[Richard-BKK]

No I'm not a real sportsbike lover, I even have a wide range of two-wheelers from 125cc up to over 1000cc... Sorry if my post hurt anybodies feelings, but be honest, is the Kawasaki ER6 engine build for performance, same for the Honda CBR650F, so be honest is the Kawasaki Ninja 650 or the Honda CBR650F a real sportsbike?

For some person who compares my sportsbike to a Honda NSR250R.... you should get your facts right... I can beat you with my girlfriends Kawasaki Vulcan 900 Custom from 0 to 100km/h, and this is not even a sportsbike... Your Honda NSR250R is just an antique relic which should be respected, but for performance it's not up to real sportsbike performance. My sportsbike can deliver over 200 real horsepower at a rpm the Honda NSR250R two-stroke engine is still reaching for the right RPM to get at it max 45 horsepower....

The same for the Honda NSR250R (sportsbike) vs Kawasaki Vulcan 900 (cruiser) before the Honda gets atr the powertrain the Kawasaki's torque already propelled the motorcycle so fare ahead it will be unable to catch it... If you compare my MV Agusta to your Honda NSR250R you would not even see me anymore before you get 45 horsepower....

By the way the Honda 500 series, Honda 650 series and the Kawasaki motorcycles are excellent machines, but I only have problems that they're called “Ninja” or “CBR” which is normally associated with sportsbikes...

[ktm jeff]

Eisfeld , welcome to TV. I very much enjoyed your post. Yes the Italian bikes (and maybe KTM) are / can be emotional but i,ve owned several and can say in all honesty i have never had any reliability problems riding up to 14,000 per year throughout Europe. I,d rather have some "character" and a more racy riding position than a more "perfect" bike that doesnt excite me. Thats not to say that bike is poor , but just not what I want. Some bikes arent as smooth at low revs because they are designed above that commuting level. Only 1 of my friends wanted to ride my Aprilia ( ! ) in Northern Ireland recently , and said it was poor below 60 MPH ( 100 KPH ), but fantastic in every way above that speed. Thats fine , i said , i dont go below 60 !. I didnt buy it for comuting.BUT he would never buy one - and i find his Hayabusa boring. We agree we are different people wanting different things from our bikes .We are both right . Everyone today can find more than 1 bike to suit there needs / wants. We didnt have that a few years ago. Thats good. I just guess some peoples passions overtake their typing sometimes but we all share a common intrest - just in slightly different forms.

[eisfeld]

Richard: for me, Sportsbike just means it handles well on the street and has enough power to go "fast" and handle well around corners. Sportsbikes usually don't offer much "utility" in terms of storage and are very bad off-road. They also have a forward oriented riding position. 250cc bikes also count therefor as Sportbikes as the Moto3 class shows, they can be really sporty

The "real" sportbikes you refer to are in my book Supersport Bikes, usually liter+, purely made for speed and excellent handling around corners on asphalt and many owners also go to race tracks with them. These are bikes that require a lot of experience to really use their potential.

So in that sense I would say the 500cc or 650cc bikes you mentioned are definitely not supersport (or "real" sport bikes).

But I feel a bit bad about contradicting someone like you because I think you have vastly more experience when it comes to bikes than me so please take no offense

Jeff: well put and thx for the welcome I agree with you totally that not every bike is for everyone and even one bike many times can't fulfill all desires of a single person. I personally can see me owning two or three bikes in the future (not counting the scooters that I have). One for commute style riding including a pillion which should be as smooth as possible but enough power to safely overtake cars and useable for some touring. It's probably gonna be a CB650F if Intermot and EICMA don't bring something better. But then I also want a bike that excites me, not necessarily because of speed but the very hard to describe passion it evokes. From design over power to sound. This one can have a bit of an attitude and be not butter smooth. A Ducati Monster, BMW R nineT or something along the lines. And to round it off, maybe some off road bike to get really dirty but I am not sure if I'd be able to do such a bike justice in Phuket.

About the RPM and designing a bike for certain speeds which makes them not so nice for e.g. low RPMs: totally fine as you said but if we're lucky, ride-by-wire systems and modern engines might get us bikes that can be great at all speeds. Of course we can't dynamically adjust the riding position but for the engine I think we'll eventually get there. Same for the suspension (e.g. S1000R) and the breaks.

I also totally believe that recent Ducatis are decent in terms of reliability

[ktm jeff]

Italian bikes used to have a reputation for bad temparments and riding position , but that is not the case now. They are more expensive but often better made and certainly more exciting. Not ideal for everyone. Running smoothly at low revs will always be a problem if you want big power and a clean engine."On the fly" adjustable riding dynamics will be here soon ! .If you can only buy 4 bikes here is my choice .1 commuter - large scooter - Sym 300. 2 tourer - Kawasaki 650 / 800 OR Yamaha 600 twin / 900 triple . 3 sports - Ducati 899. 4 dual sport - Kawasaki KLX 250.

Edited September 23, 2014 by ktm jeff

[Gforcejunkypkt]

Gforcewhatever, Richard was talking about wannabe sportbikes, not wannabe sportbikers... a big difference imo...

Wantana (I'll refrain from making a joke about your cool name), I stand corrected, I meant to say wannabe sportbikes in my last sentence (will edit the post in a moment). But semantics aside, my main point, which still stands intact, is that Italian bikes are no more real sportbikes than Japanese or any other and it's a bit stupid to even make or argue for such a position -- if it were true we'd see them cleaning up on all levels of the racing scene, which quite embarrassingly they're simply not. Also, that's why I said my NSR (and nothing about me or my skill/status) would clean up his Italian jobby on some challenging roads.

But my secondary point which perhaps you kinda missed was why the judgmental, superiority-complex attitude? Unwarranted to say the least. But getting back to the "big difference" you speak of, can one assume you also believe Italian bikes have more sportsbike cred/status than Japanese "wannabe" sportsbikes??

Yeah, I'm a "newbie" on this forum but frankly if that attitude is pervasive on this forum (which hopefully/doubtfully it isn't, cause I've already interacted with some other cool members), then I'm a "gonebie"...

[ktm jeff]

Gforcejunkypkt , i believe Richard (a very experienced and valued member) meant the 500 / 650 bikes arent "real" sportsbikes - which is correct. That is not to say they are poor bikes , which there not. As for Italian bikes , i think they have more passion / excitement built into them , but that can also makes them a touch more difficult to live with , day to day. The fact i,m lucky enough too own some doesnt make me a more skillfull rider. I just think their better bikes. EDIT - re-wrote name.

Edited September 23, 2014 by ktm jeff

[Gforcejunkypkt]

No I'm not a real sportsbike lover, I even have a wide range of two-wheelers from 125cc up to over 1000cc... Sorry if my post hurt anybodies feelings, but be honest, is the Kawasaki ER6 engine build for performance, same for the Honda CBR650F, so be honest is the Kawasaki Ninja 650 or the Honda CBR650F a real sportsbike?

For some person who compares my sportsbike to a Honda NSR250R.... you should get your facts right... I can beat you with my girlfriends Kawasaki Vulcan 900 Custom from 0 to 100km/h, and this is not even a sportsbike... Your Honda NSR250R is just an antique relic which should be respected, but for performance it's not up to real sportsbike performance. My sportsbike can deliver over 200 real horsepower at a rpm the Honda NSR250R two-stroke engine is still reaching for the right RPM to get at it max 45 horsepower....

The same for the Honda NSR250R (sportsbike) vs Kawasaki Vulcan 900 (cruiser) before the Honda gets atr the powertrain the Kawasaki's torque already propelled the motorcycle so fare ahead it will be unable to catch it... If you compare my MV Agusta to your Honda NSR250R you would not even see me anymore before you get 45 horsepower....

By the way the Honda 500 series, Honda 650 series and the Kawasaki motorcycles are excellent machines, but I only have problems that they're called “Ninja” or “CBR” which is normally associated with sportsbikes...

Richard-BKK I specifically referred to "coastal, cliff-side twisties" as a venue for comparison and evaluation of a motorcycle's true "sportiness", not boring long straight roads which you apparently are referring to -- in that case, duh, even a Harley or a Ford 150 could eventually kill an NSR -- but I really hope you're not saying that a Harley (let alone a Vulcan!) has more sportsbike cred than a NSR (or any other non-Italian bike)! Perhaps you and some other will disagree, but I personally feel curvy sets of roads are the ultimate test for a bike (how many straights do you see in racing??). Not a single one of the bikes you mention, even your fancy MV Agusta (with the only POSSIBLE exception being if your MV were ridden by somebody with Rossi-like skills, which I somehow doubt applies to yourself, me or anyone else on this forum), can hold a candle to a well-ridden "antique relic" like an NSR on some "real" challenging roads as I refer to -- fact. The only place all the horsepower would get a normal guy like you is flying of a cliff...

BTW, you're the one that needs to get their facts straight -- I haven't had her on a dyno but my NSR of course is de-restricted and has other club-race level tuning/mods -- stock NSR's pump out about 45 hp as you say, but de-restricted and properly tuned NSR can get into the upper 60's even lower 70's -- rather superb power-weight ratio for a bike that weighs between 130-140 kg, regardless of it's antiquity, so it's laughable for you to even compare your girlfriend's Vulcan cruiser, esp. when I was again referring very clearly to curvy roads...Sheesh, I'll bet I could ride my MTB and beat the panties off your Vulcan going downhill through the tight twisties of Promthep Cape in Phuket (or anywhere similar)...so much for horsepower being the only determinant in how sporty a bike is.

Finally, I don't think anyone would ever confuse an ER-6 with a CBR, R1 or a Ducati 848, but the fact is they have absolutely cleaned up their IOM TT SuperTwin class since it was started a couple of years ago -- so please explain to us (and Ryan Farquhar) more clearly how an ER-6 cannot be designed (or modded like just about any race bike) for performance...

Edited September 23, 2014 by Gforcejunkypkt

[taninthai]

probably better to let this topic die of now we are getting into my bikes faster than yours i can ride quicker than you ,its pretty childish,never known a forum like this one other forums i visit are friendly everyone knows each others names ,off coarse we are not always gonna agree it don't need to lead to personal attacks and abuse all the time though ......the only time i have words with others on this forum is if someone is posting utter b.s i will call them out on it ,if people post things with a different opinion from myself fair enough .

[dave_boo]

Italian bikes used to have a reputation for bad temparments and riding position , but that is not the case now. They are more expensive but often better made and certainly more exciting. Not ideal for everyone. Running smoothly at low revs will always be a problem if you want big power and a clean engine."On the fly" adjustable riding dynamics will be here soon ! .If you can only buy 4 bikes here is my choice .1 commuter - large scooter - Sym 300. 2 tourer - Kawasaki 650 / 800 OR Yamaha 600 twin / 900 triple . 3 sports - Ducati 899. 4 dual sport - Kawasaki KLX 250.

I agree with 2 out of your 4 choices.

For an inner-city commuter a small nimble bike, like the Honda Zoomer-X or Yamaha TTX, is much easier to maneuver and park. Granted, most foreigners look like bears on tricycles riding them, but their capabilities should make up the difference.

Also, the Honda CRF250L has more power than the KLX 250 whilst being less expensive. You do however give up the almost universally better Kawasaki dealership support though. Having said that, I've only had to have one of the Hondas in (the Airblade this last June...carb issues on a 6 year old bike) for service. Not bad out of 8 or so Honda bikes spanning almost 10 years. I have had my Ninjette in (FI system issue...most likely gasahol that sat too long). So in my admittedly substandard sample, there's a 100% chance of needing to use a Kawasaki dealership and a 12.5% chance of needing to use a Honda dealership.

All that aside...the Kawasaki dealership was nicer to deal with.

[casualbiker]

Wow talk about over react LL

Well, I guess I'd be a little put out if I did regular track days, a whole load of riding, (unlike many posters here I reckon) test rode a bunch of bikes and put a shitload of pics on the forum only to be called a 'wannabe' because I don't ride a large cc Italian bike.

It looks like that but I honestly think it is like this............

Richard owns & rides that bike & felt it was the usual type of "ride report" & with LL I use that term

very loosely

He/Richard was obviously upset by what he saw as the usual..........everything that does not say Honda sucks

That aside LL himself reacts the exact same way many times here when someone says something they do not like about a Honda...

He comes back all upset saying how can you say this or that...do you own it? Ok BS then

Basically that is about how I am seeing this Hoo Haa

Anyway I guess folks get passionate about their bikes eh?

Sometimes say things when heated etc.

And yet even though Richard supposedly owns the bike he has not bothered to write a rider report! Strange!