Scots have spoken, now Britons must act

[Lite Beer]

EDITORIAL
Scots have spoken, now Britons must act
The Nation

LONDON: -- From now on, London's dealings with Great Britain's northern partner must stem from the heart

In the end, the "bond" held, just barely. Democracy can be beautiful and ironic at the same time. The Scots, who have voted in a historic referendum to reject independence from England, can testify to that. So who says freedom is everything and democracy is everything about freedom? Scotland has chosen to be, well, not so free, but the process of coming to that conclusion is quite remarkable and respectable.

Some say it’s just like a child in the family trying to leave home and becoming independent from the parents. The Scottish independence issue doesn't carry with it a scary international scenario and has been monitored with more curiosity than genuine concern. It’s not an earth-shattering event that would send superpowers’ war rooms buzzing with anxiety. If the Ukraine and Middle East situations are thrillers, Thursday's decision by the Scots is a family drama at best.

While the Eastern Europe and Palestinian affairs feature ideological, religious and political conflicts, the Scottish issue is mostly economic. There is national pride involved, but, by and large, if England and Scotland have not had deep disagreements over financial aspects of their relationship, it might not have come to the vote on Thursday. Nationalism came seriously into play only in the home stretch of the referendum.

The Scotland case should serve as a lesson to all the powers that be. Ideological differences can redefine borders, but so can economic inequality. The "Better Together" campaign, for all its feel-good, comforting elements, failed to give pro-independence voters a guarantee that the status quo will help them economically. The pro-independence voters weren’t sure about a non-England economic future of Scotland either, but they were willing to make a leap of faith. If you think you have been exploited, you are likely to sever the ties and give it a try on your own, and it doesn’t matter if things might actually get worse.

Both camps’ campaigns were basically attempts to describe each side of the coin in their own ways. The "England Loves Scotland" camp presented the status quo as a brotherly, caring (albeit misunderstood) relationship. The other side called what England had done habitual "exploitation" committed under the guise of parental concern. Warnings that Scotland could be worse off economically were dubbed a scare tactic by the pro-independence campaign.

A lot of things will change now, but the relationship is unlikely to turn volatile or violent. Both countries have come a long way from the days when armoured soldiers beat down doors and dragged off "rebels" for public execution. Yet the divisive power of the economic issue can never be underestimated. When two people agree on just about everything else, what they have in the bank can dictate their relationship.

England and Scotland can call the latest independence push a close call. But it won't be the last. The pro-independence camp has come close to winning and must have learned some lessons. It will be better prepared next time, no matter how long it has to wait. As for England, the one and only lesson is that your friend, or your neighbour, or your family member must be treated well. Allegiance, of all things, can never be taken for granted.

The urge to be free is always there, even there’s nothing quite wrong in a relationship. England has promised better treatment of the Scots, but the trick is that future action must come from the heart and not the head. In other words, equality must stem from mutual respect, not necessity. Only then can "Better Together" be a genuine foundation of relationship, not some words used in a desperate campaign.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/opinion/Scots-have-spoken-now-Britons-must-act-30243670.html

-- The Nation 2014-09-20

[ABCer]

Not being a Britt or a Scott and having no vested interests in the issue I am very happy with a "NO" vote.

The reason is - both Scotland and England would have been loosers.

I find this Editorial article of The Nation lacking in friendliness and incidious towards GB though formally polite and reserved in tone.

Any allusions to Eastern Europe and Palestine are clearly out of place. Scotts have handled the issue civilly, peacefully and gracefully accepted the outcome.

My only regret is for 45% of the voters to be so misguided. Allowing only residents of Scotland to vote was also an injustice.

[Keesters]

historic referendum

Hardly historic! There was one in 1979 too. Only 35 years ago.

And they'll probably be another in the future.

reject independence from England

Scotland was never part of England.

This article really sucks....

Edited September 20, 2014 by Keesters

[alant]

I had little doubt that the no vote would succeed even with its appalling tactics of threats and promises.

Now it is time for Cameron to live up to his promises and explain why he is reducing the salary of nurses and other health workers, attacking pensions and increasing taxes and charging for higher education in England to fund it.

[Mosha]

Lord Barnett has spoken

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/11108848/Scottish-Referendum-My-Barnett-Formula-needs-to-be-tackled-now-but-no-politician-will.html

[smedly]

Not being a Britt or a Scott and having no vested interests in the issue I am very happy with a "NO" vote. The reason is - both Scotland and England would have been loosers. I find this Editorial article of The Nation lacking in friendliness and incidious towards GB though formally polite and reserved in tone. Any allusions to Eastern Europe and Palestine are clearly out of place. Scotts have handled the issue civilly, peacefully and gracefully accepted the outcome. My only regret is for 45% of the voters to be so misguided. Allowing only residents of Scotland to vote was also an injustice.

Alex Salmond is the lowest most twisted low life I have ever seen in a long time, he had the stage talk that duped many but what a devious man, his cult followers like lemmings will never know or see him for what he is/was

He made my stomach churn every time I heard him on stage, he has caused division in Scotland that will take a long time to reverse if ever - a devious mad man that had an agenda that was in nobodies interest except his own

I don't have any respect for the elite in westminster either but this man was a liar and cheat to the highest degree, I hope he rots in hell for what he has done, lets hope the people that were foolish enough to listen to his bull%%%%% will eventually see it for what it was

a mad man at best

I hope the scotish people can recover from this debacle - the poor scotish people that are suffering from hardship - they need to realise that half the world are in the same boat

There's a part of me wishes there had been a yes majority - then these people would have very soon realised that the grass was not that green on the other side and I would not have blamed the rest of the UK for making it as difficult as possible for the idiots that thought it was better on their own - I'd have made sure they were completely on their own

[HUAHIN62]

historic referendum

Hardly historic! There was one in 1979 too. Only 35 years ago.

And they'll probably be another in the future.

reject independence from England

Scotland was never part of England.

This article really sucks....

Agree with you. If you look at the percentage older people against independence compared to the younger people, its only a question of time before the UK have one less country, unless Briton do what they need to do. The 65+ was 71% against and the 18 year old was +- 70% a for break away.

[bkk_mike]

Not being a Britt or a Scott and having no vested interests in the issue I am very happy with a "NO" vote. The reason is - both Scotland and England would have been loosers. I find this Editorial article of The Nation lacking in friendliness and incidious towards GB though formally polite and reserved in tone. Any allusions to Eastern Europe and Palestine are clearly out of place. Scotts have handled the issue civilly, peacefully and gracefully accepted the outcome. My only regret is for 45% of the voters to be so misguided. Allowing only residents of Scotland to vote was also an injustice.

When you say only allowing residents to vote was an injustice, do you mean Scots living abroad (like myself) should have been allowed to vote?

It's just that some commentators in England have said the rest of the UK should have been allowed to vote too, which given Scotland has under 9% of the UK population...)

Edited September 20, 2014 by bkk_mike

[bkk_mike]

Not being a Britt or a Scott and having no vested interests in the issue I am very happy with a "NO" vote. The reason is - both Scotland and England would have been loosers. I find this Editorial article of The Nation lacking in friendliness and incidious towards GB though formally polite and reserved in tone. Any allusions to Eastern Europe and Palestine are clearly out of place. Scotts have handled the issue civilly, peacefully and gracefully accepted the outcome. My only regret is for 45% of the voters to be so misguided. Allowing only residents of Scotland to vote was also an injustice.

Alex Salmond is the lowest most twisted low life I have ever seen in a long time, he had the stage talk that duped many but what a devious man, his cult followers like lemmings will never know or see him for what he is/was

He made my stomach churn every time I heard him on stage, he has caused division in Scotland that will take a long time to reverse if ever - a devious mad man that had an agenda that was in nobodies interest except his own

I don't have any respect for the elite in westminster either but this man was a liar and cheat to the highest degree, I hope he rots in hell for what he has done, lets hope the people that were foolish enough to listen to his bull%%%%% will eventually see it for what it was

a mad man at best

I hope the scotish people can recover from this debacle - the poor scotish people that are suffering from hardship - they need to realise that half the world are in the same boat

There's a part of me wishes there had been a yes majority - then these people would have very soon realised that the grass was not that green on the other side and I would not have blamed the rest of the UK for making it as difficult as possible for the idiots that thought it was better on their own - I'd have made sure they were completely on their own

The SNP exists, as a party, to get Independence for Scotland...

Salmond promised a referendum in his manifesto, and your complaining about a politician that delivered on a campaign promise. I note Nick Clegg chose to stay in office after losing the vote on PR, and I'm sure you know how he did on his other campaign pledges.

Remember this is not seen as a defeat for the SNP in Scotland. They got a lot closer than anyone expected them to get when they announced the referendum. And this was with the media and television virtually all on the No side.

Now that the vote is over, newspapers seem to not be as biased any more...

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/5d888e34-3ff0-11e4-a381-00144feabdc0.html

Edited September 20, 2014 by bkk_mike

[transam]

Not being a Britt or a Scott and having no vested interests in the issue I am very happy with a "NO" vote. The reason is - both Scotland and England would have been loosers. I find this Editorial article of The Nation lacking in friendliness and incidious towards GB though formally polite and reserved in tone. Any allusions to Eastern Europe and Palestine are clearly out of place. Scotts have handled the issue civilly, peacefully and gracefully accepted the outcome. My only regret is for 45% of the voters to be so misguided. Allowing only residents of Scotland to vote was also an injustice.

Alex Salmond is the lowest most twisted low life I have ever seen in a long time, he had the stage talk that duped many but what a devious man, his cult followers like lemmings will never know or see him for what he is/was

He made my stomach churn every time I heard him on stage, he has caused division in Scotland that will take a long time to reverse if ever - a devious mad man that had an agenda that was in nobodies interest except his own

I don't have any respect for the elite in westminster either but this man was a liar and cheat to the highest degree, I hope he rots in hell for what he has done, lets hope the people that were foolish enough to listen to his bull%%%%% will eventually see it for what it was

a mad man at best

I hope the scotish people can recover from this debacle - the poor scotish people that are suffering from hardship - they need to realise that half the world are in the same boat

There's a part of me wishes there had been a yes majority - then these people would have very soon realised that the grass was not that green on the other side and I would not have blamed the rest of the UK for making it as difficult as possible for the idiots that thought it was better on their own - I'd have made sure they were completely on their own

The SNP exists, as a party, to get Independence for Scotland...

Salmond promised a referendum in his manifesto, and your complaining about a politician that delivered on a campaign promise. I note Nick Clegg chose to stay in office after losing the vote on PR, and I'm sure you know how he did on his other campaign pledges.

Remember this is not seen as a defeat for the SNP in Scotland. They got a lot closer than anyone expected them to get when they announced the referendum. And this was with the media and television virtually all on the No side.

Now that the vote is over, newspapers seem to not be as biased any more...

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/5d888e34-3ff0-11e4-a381-00144feabdc0.html

If not a defeat why is Salmond now bailing out of everything...?

[Keesters]

Not being a Britt or a Scott and having no vested interests in the issue I am very happy with a "NO" vote. The reason is - both Scotland and England would have been loosers. I find this Editorial article of The Nation lacking in friendliness and incidious towards GB though formally polite and reserved in tone. Any allusions to Eastern Europe and Palestine are clearly out of place. Scotts have handled the issue civilly, peacefully and gracefully accepted the outcome. My only regret is for 45% of the voters to be so misguided. Allowing only residents of Scotland to vote was also an injustice.

Alex Salmond is the lowest most twisted low life I have ever seen in a long time, he had the stage talk that duped many but what a devious man, his cult followers like lemmings will never know or see him for what he is/was

He made my stomach churn every time I heard him on stage, he has caused division in Scotland that will take a long time to reverse if ever - a devious mad man that had an agenda that was in nobodies interest except his own

I don't have any respect for the elite in westminster either but this man was a liar and cheat to the highest degree, I hope he rots in hell for what he has done, lets hope the people that were foolish enough to listen to his bull%%%%% will eventually see it for what it was

a mad man at best

I hope the scotish people can recover from this debacle - the poor scotish people that are suffering from hardship - they need to realise that half the world are in the same boat

There's a part of me wishes there had been a yes majority - then these people would have very soon realised that the grass was not that green on the other side and I would not have blamed the rest of the UK for making it as difficult as possible for the idiots that thought it was better on their own - I'd have made sure they were completely on their own

The SNP exists, as a party, to get Independence for Scotland...

Salmond promised a referendum in his manifesto, and your complaining about a politician that delivered on a campaign promise. I note Nick Clegg chose to stay in office after losing the vote on PR, and I'm sure you know how he did on his other campaign pledges.

Remember this is not seen as a defeat for the SNP in Scotland. They got a lot closer than anyone expected them to get when they announced the referendum. And this was with the media and television virtually all on the No side.

Now that the vote is over, newspapers seem to not be as biased any more...

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/5d888e34-3ff0-11e4-a381-00144feabdc0.html

If not a defeat why is Salmond now bailing out of everything...?

It's not a defeat it's just that they didn't win. Scottish logic.

[jpinx]

Salmond is not bailing out - he has fulfilled his promises and now reverts to being a "normal" member of the Scottish Parliament. The SNP has the clear majority there, so the next Scottish general election is going to be interesting. Meanwhile let's hope Edinburgh puts the thumb-screws on Westminster to deliver that promises that Gordon Brown referred to, including Scottish tax-raising powers. People forget that this has always been about Scotland's right to govern itself, and that means being in charge of it's finances, and not at the whim of Westminster for "hand-outs" - however else you want to describe the current system. Hopefully the English MP's will not sit back and do nothing - they also need to resolve the issues of Scottish MP's voting on English matters. The whole westminster system is an unholy mess and needs an overhaul, root and branch!

[NoshowJones]

Salmond is not bailing out - he has fulfilled his promises and now reverts to being a "normal" member of the Scottish Parliament. The SNP has the clear majority there, so the next Scottish general election is going to be interesting. Meanwhile let's hope Edinburgh puts the thumb-screws on Westminster to deliver that promises that Gordon Brown referred to, including Scottish tax-raising powers. People forget that this has always been about Scotland's right to govern itself, and that means being in charge of it's finances, and not at the whim of Westminster for "hand-outs" - however else you want to describe the current system. Hopefully the English MP's will not sit back and do nothing - they also need to resolve the issues of Scottish MP's voting on English matters. The whole westminster system is an unholy mess and needs an overhaul, root and branch!

Scottish tax raising powers????????? Does anyone really believe anyone in any country wants His/her taxes raised?

[Keesters]

Salmond is not bailing out - he has fulfilled his promises and now reverts to being a "normal" member of the Scottish Parliament. The SNP has the clear majority there, so the next Scottish general election is going to be interesting. Meanwhile let's hope Edinburgh puts the thumb-screws on Westminster to deliver that promises that Gordon Brown referred to, including Scottish tax-raising powers. People forget that this has always been about Scotland's right to govern itself, and that means being in charge of it's finances, and not at the whim of Westminster for "hand-outs" - however else you want to describe the current system. Hopefully the English MP's will not sit back and do nothing - they also need to resolve the issues of Scottish MP's voting on English matters. The whole westminster system is an unholy mess and needs an overhaul, root and branch!

Scottish tax raising powers????????? Does anyone really believe anyone in any country wants His/her taxes raised?

It's not about raising (increasing) taxes it's about raising (collecting) them. Scotland would raise (collect) its own taxes rather than let Britain do so.

[jpinx]

Salmond is not bailing out - he has fulfilled his promises and now reverts to being a "normal" member of the Scottish Parliament. The SNP has the clear majority there, so the next Scottish general election is going to be interesting. Meanwhile let's hope Edinburgh puts the thumb-screws on Westminster to deliver that promises that Gordon Brown referred to, including Scottish tax-raising powers. People forget that this has always been about Scotland's right to govern itself, and that means being in charge of it's finances, and not at the whim of Westminster for "hand-outs" - however else you want to describe the current system. Hopefully the English MP's will not sit back and do nothing - they also need to resolve the issues of Scottish MP's voting on English matters. The whole westminster system is an unholy mess and needs an overhaul, root and branch!

Scottish tax raising powers????????? Does anyone really believe anyone in any country wants His/her taxes raised?

Tax-raising -- a figure of speech used to describe the right to tax -- can refer to decreasing the rates as well

[NoshowJones]

Salmond is not bailing out - he has fulfilled his promises and now reverts to being a "normal" member of the Scottish Parliament. The SNP has the clear majority there, so the next Scottish general election is going to be interesting. Meanwhile let's hope Edinburgh puts the thumb-screws on Westminster to deliver that promises that Gordon Brown referred to, including Scottish tax-raising powers. People forget that this has always been about Scotland's right to govern itself, and that means being in charge of it's finances, and not at the whim of Westminster for "hand-outs" - however else you want to describe the current system. Hopefully the English MP's will not sit back and do nothing - they also need to resolve the issues of Scottish MP's voting on English matters. The whole westminster system is an unholy mess and needs an overhaul, root and branch!

Scottish tax raising powers????????? Does anyone really believe anyone in any country wants His/her taxes raised?

It's not about raising (increasing) taxes it's about raising (collecting) them. Scotland would raise (collect) its own taxes rather than let Britain do so.

I think you are right, but in Scotland, raising and increasing can have the same meaning.

[kinmaew]

"Change ain't good Leone" Ol Tony said (Taken from movie Leon). Why break a 300 year relationship that has worked well? Who on earth would pay the billions in pensions to the Scots that north sea oil will run out one day and Tasmania makes better whiskey now.

[jpinx]

History has to studied in order to not repeat the mistakes. The Union was never a "happy arrangement" and has only persisted by continuing heavy-handed governance from Westminster. Time to remove that yolk and move on. No need to leave the Union of the crowns - Scotland can forever be British - but it'll be Scottish first

[Keesters]

Salmond is not bailing out - he has fulfilled his promises and now reverts to being a "normal" member of the Scottish Parliament. The SNP has the clear majority there, so the next Scottish general election is going to be interesting. Meanwhile let's hope Edinburgh puts the thumb-screws on Westminster to deliver that promises that Gordon Brown referred to, including Scottish tax-raising powers. People forget that this has always been about Scotland's right to govern itself, and that means being in charge of it's finances, and not at the whim of Westminster for "hand-outs" - however else you want to describe the current system. Hopefully the English MP's will not sit back and do nothing - they also need to resolve the issues of Scottish MP's voting on English matters. The whole westminster system is an unholy mess and needs an overhaul, root and branch!

Scottish tax raising powers????????? Does anyone really believe anyone in any country wants His/her taxes raised?

It's not about raising (increasing) taxes it's about raising (collecting) them. Scotland would raise (collect) its own taxes rather than let Britain do so.

I think you are right, but in Scotland, raising and increasing can have the same meaning.

It can in England too that's why I wrote as I did to show both meanings of the word.

[Keesters]

History has to studied in order to not repeat the mistakes. The Union was never a "happy arrangement" and has only persisted by continuing heavy-handed governance from Westminster. Time to remove that yolk and move on. No need to leave the Union of the crowns - Scotland can forever be British - but it'll be Scottish first

When I first started to work overseas (Middle East) I used to say English but was often corrected by Scots who said "No we're British". Probably NO voters. So I changed to saying British. Now I'm in Thailand and often get asked my nationality. Have yet to find many Thais that understand British (is there even a Thai word for it?) but as soon as I say "Angkrit" (English) they all nod in understanding. The reason being it seems is football. Britain does not have a national team and the Thais I'm generally in contact with know of both England and Scotland as football teams and generally think of them as separate nations. The post office is one major exception. Say UK and they are right on the ball where you want your letter sent.

[whatproblem]

When do the English get to vote if we want Scotland

[inutil]

Whenever you vote for i) a party campaigning for the setting up of a specific English parliament, and then ii) a party within that English parliament campaigning specifically on a manifesto proposal to offer a referendum on England staying in the Union. Of course youll probably need overwhelming support to force westminster to agree, but if scotland can do it, im sure england can as well.

Then again, you could of course push for a party in a general election voting exclusively on a platform of a national referendum on the break up of the union, and if they garner the seats, then sure, they could push it through. But im assuming that the whole of the UK would be in on that referendum given that it was the whole UK that voted on that manifesto. For best results (and to keep it an exclusively English decision) youll really need to set up your own parliament first and then win the election of that parliament.

Glad to help.

Edited September 20, 2014 by inutil

[Baerboxer]

historic referendum

Hardly historic! There was one in 1979 too. Only 35 years ago.

And they'll probably be another in the future.

reject independence from England

Scotland was never part of England.

This article really sucks....

Agree with you. If you look at the percentage older people against independence compared to the younger people, its only a question of time before the UK have one less country, unless Briton do what they need to do. The 65+ was 71% against and the 18 year old was +- 70% a for break away.

Of course - with age comes wisdom.

Very easy to appeal to a younger person's emotions, and promise them wonders and utopia without quite explaining how it will all be delivered.

I remember Salmond saying he would 'tell the EU we haven't left, and then negotiate a better deal for our Scottish fishermen and agriculture". Did he really think the entire EU would simply roll over, change all the rules and accommodate his every wish? Many impressionable young people, with stirred up nationalist rhetoric, thought it would be that easy, and believed what they wanted to believe. That Salmond and pals could create some kind of new model society. Problem was, his plans were off the back of a fag packet.

Scotland is well rid of him, although he will continue to poison from the backbenches no doubt. I hope the very ambitious and antagonistic Ms Sturgeon is dumped to because she will be as awkward as she can be.

[laolover88]

I bet the Catalans vote YES

[Baerboxer]

History has to studied in order to not repeat the mistakes. The Union was never a "happy arrangement" and has only persisted by continuing heavy-handed governance from Westminster. Time to remove that yolk and move on. No need to leave the Union of the crowns - Scotland can forever be British - but it'll be Scottish first

Westminster grabbed more central power, which was needed, to fight and win to momentous world wars in short succession. Trouble is, it doesn't want to give them back!

Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and the English regions now need to work together to keep the benefits of the Union but make sure power, and that must be real power, is devolved.

Michael Moore, former Scottish Secretary and Peter Hain, former Welsh Secretary, both made very good comments on this after the result. The UK could become more of a federal system like Australia or Germany. Things need to change, including how the upper house is populated.

[jpinx]

I bet the Catalans vote YES

The difference there is that apparently the Spanish government has refused permission to a hold a referendum, so if it goes ahead and win a YES , they are going to have some trouble enforcing it.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-29274849#sa-ns_mchannel=rss&ns_source=PublicRSS20-sa

Edited September 20, 2014 by jpinx

[rajyindee]

When do the English get to vote if we want Scotland

Why do some folk keep referring to "The English", rather than "England". Aren't the rest of the folk in your country going to have a say in the matter? On second thoughts, perhaps you better not answer that.

Edited September 20, 2014 by rajyindee

[Rimmer]

Off topic vitriolic post removed, also quoted replies to it.

We are not discussing Gordon Brown or Tony Blair please try to stay on topic, thank you

[pigeonjake]

Salmond is not bailing out - he has fulfilled his promises and now reverts to being a "normal" member of the Scottish Parliament. The SNP has the clear majority there, so the next Scottish general election is going to be interesting. Meanwhile let's hope Edinburgh puts the thumb-screws on Westminster to deliver that promises that Gordon Brown referred to, including Scottish tax-raising powers. People forget that this has always been about Scotland's right to govern itself, and that means being in charge of it's finances, and not at the whim of Westminster for "hand-outs" - however else you want to describe the current system. Hopefully the English MP's will not sit back and do nothing - they also need to resolve the issues of Scottish MP's voting on English matters. The whole westminster system is an unholy mess and needs an overhaul, root and branch!

when they were going to shut grangemouth 2 years ago, when the unions f££ked up,,

who was going to bail it out,,,,,,,

oh yes it was going to be that westminster you dont like,,,,, short memory

the english should have a referendom

[kingalfred]

historic referendum

Hardly historic! There was one in 1979 too. Only 35 years ago.

And they'll probably be another in the future.

reject independence from England

Scotland was never part of England.

This article really sucks....

who did the "nation" paper pay to write such ilinformed junk?