Thailand beach murders: Hannah Witheridge and David Miller may have argued in bar with gangster

[LanceGringo]

Waking up this morning to the facebook shock news, I went to help this sean out at the minimart mentioned in his fb posting. The island was silent predawn, no police, no army, nobody on the roads. I passed the police station expecting a hive of activity. It was closed, nobody there. I drove to Fishbowl and the area. All normal, nobody around but one or 2 street dogs and a drunk couple sitting in a shop front. I asked some vendors preparing early morning curries if they had seen and police/army/fighting, nobody saw anything.

Just my observations pre 6am this morning.

It appears a group of intoxicated British Youths have fabricated a very poor Taste Hoax .

The Hoax was very vile in its choice of subject matter- and i hope a prosecution results.

The family have suffered enough

What makes you say it was a hoax?

[Adeeos]

Sad SAD thing that the BIB are now mentioning yaba, "may" have been involved,,,, AGAIN to attempt to add into the fray, that it was somehow the victims faults,,, DISGUSTING!!!!,,, NOT stating that the perps were on it,, NOooooo, attempting to assert that the victims were somehow responsible, OK... for the sake of argument... lets say for a second,, they were on yaba?.... so that somehow made THEM to blame for the attack, BRUTAL beating/death?...... the RTP in this case, have hit a NEW, all time LOW!... they attempt to save face, but at the same time, LOSE it by stooping to such LOW, LOW levels,,, like MANY thai men, they have the mental maturity of a 10 year old boy!!!.....

[joedot]

Police found the guy on the security camera, he worked at a entertainment bar near the crime scene. It's one Thai and one Burma.

Also the reward is at 713,000 baht now

glad they threw in that extra 13,000 baht

[Snookyville]

I hope he is safe. If all negative stories about the Thai police were true they would be busy charging him now under the Thai Computer Crime Act 2007/2550 for posting the pictures:

Section 16. Any person, who imports to a computer system that is publicly accessible, computer data where a third party’s picture appears either created, edited, added or adapted by electronic means or otherwise in a manner that is likely to impair that third party’s reputation or cause that third party to be isolated, disgusted or embarrassed, shall be subject to imprisonment for not longer than three years or a fine of not more than sixty thousand baht, or both.

[metisdead]

Posts containing links to a facebook page and calling for other to take a look at that link have been removed as per this forum rule:

6) You will not post comments that could be reasonably construed as defamation or libel.

Defamation is the issuance of a statement about another person or business which causes that person to suffer harm. It does not have to be false to be defamatory. Libel is when the defamatory statement is published either in a drawing, painting, cinematography, film, picture or letters made visible by any means, or any other recording instruments, recording picture or letters, or by broadcasting or spreading picture, or by propagation by any other means. Defamation is both a civil and criminal charge in Thailand.

As facebook is not an accredited source of information, the information posted on that facebook page could be construed as defamatory. Thailand has tough Libel laws and save members any harm the posts have been removed. Please do not continue to link to the facebook site. Let's wait until some other news source breaks the news.

Edit to add: Due to the computer crime act in Thailand, it’s not wise to post screenshots of Sean McAnna’s FB page or to name the alleged killer yourself.

[englishoak]

Understood met hope this is ok

Mirror reporter andy lines on twitter tweets....

It was an extraordinary night here on Koh Tao. As far as I can tell everyone is safe. Will update later.

Ohh yea

[MikeENZ]

When I lived there it wasn't Yaba that was done by the local Thai's on Sairee, it was Cocaine and LOTS of it. Ever had to deal with a coked up Thai bar owner on a nasty come down - it's not fun thats for sure. There is a LOT of money on that island, and only a few key families.

There has also been a bit of violence in the past, but that is usually Thai on Thai and involves Gun and knife crime (I remember stories of taxi drivers taking each other out because another "stole" a customer up in Mai Haad).

There are only 600 resident thais (or at least thats how many are registered to vote) and 5 key families that dominate everything. One key family controls everything on that part of the beach, and nothing happens by a Thai (or a Burmese) without them knowing about it or giving permission or there would be hell to pay.

Theres also only about 5 police officers. They don't do any actual police work except for IDing bodies if a diver gets run over by a speedboat or someone gets in a motorbike crash.

Loads are carrying firearms or knives, especially the firedancers on the beach who are very territorial and like to "date" foreign tourists. Most of the burmese aren't allowed to drink in bars on Sairee either.

I'm willing to bet the cops know exactly who did it, and so do a fair few Thais. I'm also guessing that it will never get solved. Koh Tao is not regular Thailand theres a lot I'd say to explain why, but as I've got loads of mates who still live there - I wouldn't want to say anything that could get them into trouble.

If I was the friend, I'd be getting the hell off the island as fast as possible too for my own safety. You don't think he's got a massive target on his head from people who have a massive financial interest in this all going away. You've got to understand how the gulf islands work (its different on Tao, Samui and Phangan) to understand the thought processes here. But what he did was not suspicious at all - it's self preservation.

I loved Tao, but there is a dark side to any island in Thailand..

[khunjamesjohnson]

I would just mention that the notion that no Thai would do such a thing, and it must be foreigners - probably from Burma or Cambodia- is widespread among Thais, not just the BiB.

My adult stepson is currently in UK, and assures everyone that no Thai could have done this. He gets genuinely upset to think a Thai could have done it.

And he may shortly embark on a career with none other than the Royal Thai Police.......which I suspect will be an education to us both.

That's Thailand. Always blame the foreigners.

A friend if mine was mugged outside Central a World and the security/police showed him mugshots of Cambodians, Philippinos, Burmese.

True.

[timewilltell]

someone surmised 'we know the woman shared a cigg with the killer.' We don't know that. She could have chucked the butt and he picked it up and took a hit. I've seen that happen.

Obviously by local gangster they mean a foreign criminal who lives locally, not a local man, not a THAI!! That would be impossible to imagine it would seem.

This is when you find out what I suspect already about Resorts in Thailand, The locals look at the Tourists as lumps of meat with large wallets. If it is a "Local" who committed this crime then another local will know who it is , a local will know if someone has disappeared. So the question is will a Thai inform on a Thai for killing and diving away their bread and butter

There are very likely some others (bartender, other locals) who have a strong idea who the killers are. In Thailand, it's not a crime to harbor a fugitive of a crime. It's also not a crime to lie to police or withhold key info. Lying is endemic. If you don't believe me, take a look at what a politician says. People who tell the truth or volunteer key info, are considered whimps, or worse. There's also the possibility that, the tough guys who did this crime are going to seriously harm anyone (particularly a local) who speaks out. That's a given. This is Asia.

The reward should be upped to 300,000 baht for info leading to a conviction. Perhaps T.Visa posters can donate to a fund.

It is a crime to harbour a fugitive unless you are their mother (and I forget but maybe certain other family members). That said many Thai people have no respect for the law, not least the police and lawyers so Thai Rak Thai is the modus operandii and the law is there for ...... Well sometimes I wonder what it is there for.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

[bushwacker]

In summary .... the Police have nothing!

[englishoak]

In summary .... the Police have nothing!

Oh they do now....

[ingvar]

There is of course a very urgent and important need to find, arrest and punish the murderers.

However this will not solve the root problem as TAT seems to think.

The root problem is this question: "Is it safe for tourists to visit Thailand?. Especially if you are young, female, attractive and used to ware clothes that would not in any way be offending or inviting in the West, but here in Thailand is an open invitation to rape and murder?"

On this question the answer must be categorically "NO".

[englishoak]

Maybe Hannah never left the AC bar, how do they know she left and wasnt carried or forced to go somewhere ?

[Albertosez]

Maybe the locals - who might be part of the local mafia and who may be part of the whole thing - might have taken a vacation on a small island with caves - popping some more drugs. Maybe if the police are under enough pressure they will have to go and have a word with them and see what they are doing - maybe take some samples from them - before delivering them more pizzas and things ??

When the international press make things difficult, the police will have to pop over to those small Islands with their torches and ask if anyone is hiding out on those caves and tell them " times up " - we can't let you hide out here any longer cos too many folk are poking their beaks in to this one !

[Whyamiandwhatamidoinghere]

So they have an argument in a bar and no one sees anything? The barman, security staff, other patrons? A local gangster? No one knows who this is? Selling drugs? No one knows who sells drugs there? Did the police not interview everyone from that bar immediately while the island was in lock down?

The local gangster theory has been going around for some time now.

Yeah.. Not see a thing after The Slap Slap Threaten Your Family Attitude Adjuster is administered. 100% Satisfaction Guaranteed or your money back (no questions asked)

[Whyamiandwhatamidoinghere]

isnt the army there?

what about the bangkok police, did everyone go home?

Nah dude... The army is busy fighting and erraticating corruption and the police... Well they busy doing nothing to do anything.

[Whyamiandwhatamidoinghere]

Up the reward... They say "Money is the root of all evils" But Money can and does, in many cases, root out evil. Money is Funny like that.

[Franky Bear]

Up the reward... They say "Money is the root of all evils" But Money can and does, in many cases, root out evil. Money is Funny like that.

There's so much morally wrong when people only pass information on such serious cases to the Police once a finacial reward is given.

[Whyamiandwhatamidoinghere]

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It appears the police and press are doing everything they can to evade the possibility that the killer or killers are Thai...arguing with a Thai in a bar is not a good idea...you can count on many...if not most...to be able to enact bad will upon your person...Thai answer to an argument...knives...guns...gangs of thugs...and of course the old standby...a hoe normally used for farming...

Thailand is relatively safe...if you stay in your room...order food and beverage...and massage...watch a little TV...then go to bed...not to town...

Any town after midnight...can be considered an unsafe place to be walking or traveling alone...

"Thailand is relatively safe...if you stay in your room...order food and beverage...and massage...watch a little TV...then go to bed...not to town..."

Just a little bit dramatic eh ggt?

Damn! You were being safe up until you ordered the massage.

[smutcakes]

I know this is just gossip, but according to one local well known part time somtam seller and full time island gossip, it appears there is a bit of a power stand off at the moment on the island. The out of town police and local police both working the case, but seemingly neither working together or with not exactly the same goals. i.e one group want to nail the real perps, the other group just trying to make the whole thing disapear.

[jucel]

I know this is just gossip, but according to one local well known part time somtam seller and full time island gossip, it appears there is a bit of a power stand off at the moment on the island. The out of town police and local police both working the case, but seemingly neither working together or with not exactly the same goals. i.e one group want to nail the real perps, the other group just trying to make the whole thing disapear.

The local police need sacking and replacing with either competent cops or the army! All these island need cleaning up

Btw it would be nice if some wealthy Brit came in with large reward. That would put the cat among the pigeons

[jspill]

Maybe Hannah never left the AC bar, how do they know she left and wasnt carried or forced to go somewhere ?

On that guy's Facebook that Thaivisa is desperate to not let anyone link to in case the forum gets sued, he says Miller didn't leave with the girl, at least ruling out the idea they went to have sex on the beach. More likely she was nabbed inside the bar or right outside trying to go home after the altercation there.

[SteveFong]

all foreigners should leave the island, and, no new arrivals

the tourists that continue to arrive are not helping,

full stop on arrivals, and an empty island, devoid of tourists and certainly, not one more bikini

that will bring about the turning in of the killers

[SteveFong]

I know this is just gossip, but according to one local well known part time somtam seller and full time island gossip, it appears there is a bit of a power stand off at the moment on the island. The out of town police and local police both working the case, but seemingly neither working together or with not exactly the same goals. i.e one group want to nail the real perps, the other group just trying to make the whole thing disapear.

The local police need sacking and replacing with either competent cops or the army! All these island need cleaning up

Btw it would be nice if some wealthy Brit came in with large reward. That would put the cat among the pigeons

no, not a wealthy Brit,

it is the opposite,

break the island,

no more tourists,

no more money

you watch how fast the killer is produced from his hole

[khunjamesjohnson]

I know this is just gossip, but according to one local well known part time somtam seller and full time island gossip, it appears there is a bit of a power stand off at the moment on the island. The out of town police and local police both working the case, but seemingly neither working together or with not exactly the same goals. i.e one group want to nail the real perps, the other group just trying to make the whole thing disapear.

Local cops likely covering up their incompetence/stupidity/laziness.

[jucel]

I know this is just gossip, but according to one local well known part time somtam seller and full time island gossip, it appears there is a bit of a power stand off at the moment on the island. The out of town police and local police both working the case, but seemingly neither working together or with not exactly the same goals. i.e one group want to nail the real perps, the other group just trying to make the whole thing disapear.

The local police need sacking and replacing with either competent cops or the army! All these island need cleaning up

Btw it would be nice if some wealthy Brit came in with large reward. That would put the cat among the pigeons

no, not a wealthy Brit,

it is the opposite,

break the island,

no more tourists,

no more money

you watch how fast the killer is produced from his hole

Yeh that's the best way , but will it happen? Money trumps life every time in Thailand!

[jucel]

I know this is just gossip, but according to one local well known part time somtam seller and full time island gossip, it appears there is a bit of a power stand off at the moment on the island. The out of town police and local police both working the case, but seemingly neither working together or with not exactly the same goals. i.e one group want to nail the real perps, the other group just trying to make the whole thing disapear.

The local police need sacking and replacing with either competent cops or the army! All these island need cleaning up

Btw it would be nice if some wealthy Brit came in with large reward. That would put the cat among the pigeons

no, not a wealthy Brit,

it is the opposite,

break the island,

no more tourists,

no more money

you watch how fast the killer is produced from his hole

Yeh that's the best way , but will it happen? Money trumps life every time in Thailand!

[Plutojames88]

This case seems to be a battle of wills.

It's likely from what's been said a cover up was attempted, but now the good general has insisted they solve it.

If a conviction on Thai locals happens .

I personally along with millions of others will review my opinion of him.

I hope he shows courage and hangs these criminals .

[belg]

time for the general, sorry, PM, to close the island and take everybody's DNA

[smutcakes]

This case seems to be a battle of wills.

It's likely from what's been said a cover up was attempted, but now the good general has insisted they solve it.

If a conviction on Thai locals happens .

I personally along with millions of others will review my opinion of him.

I hope he shows courage and hangs these criminals .

Given the defamation laws in Thailand, i hope that guy who posted pics of alleged perpetrators gets out of Thailand asap. I cannot believe if he knew he would have been so stupid to blab his mouth off especially when in the island and in a bar about 100 meters from AC Bar. Given the defamation laws he might end up in prison for longer than the actual criminals if they are ever caught.

For that reason i cannot help but think that what happened on FB last night was the not malicious, but perhaps a little drunken over enthusiastic Bergerac wannabees, who will probably wake up with a real fear this morning!

Considering someone went down to where it was all allegedly happening about 1 hour later and all was closed and shut up, i find it difficult to believe. Hopefully the alleged person if innocent will come forward to be DNA tested to prove his innocence.