Thailand beach murders: Hannah Witheridge and David Miller may have argued in bar with gangster

[Seastallion]

It's increasingly obvious that an untouchable Thai man is responsible for this and will never be caught. This is what happens in a society where certain people are above the law and know they can get away with murder. Most young men learn to cope with rejection but this guy feels he can have any woman he wants and commits murder if he doesn't get her. The product of a sick society.

It's not increasingly obvious at all.

Actually, I would say it's unlikely.

Untouchable persons do not use a hoe to stave in the back of a tourist's head.

The crime scene was badly contaminated from the start.

False leads have occurred.

This is not prevarication on the part of the police.

Chances are it's a Thai. But not an "untouchable" one. This crime reeks of very very low class scum.

[garet]

Maybe they were rather quick to rule out Thai's...

They never "ruled out" Thais.

Just because initially some suspects were Burmese workers who were working close to the murder scene doesn't mean that they ever ruled out Thais.

[Thailand]

Presumably the British tabloid journos have certain Police on a retainer so these stories will continue to appear so they can prolong this as much as possible.

Yes, needs to be swept under the table as soon as possible.

[navara]

A gangster who did it? Nah, a gangster without a gun? Commit a complete unprofitable murder? A gangster has a boss too. And it won't save your face, because nobody knows about it? Nope, a gangster theory seems to be unlikely.

IF the killers flee the island, then somebody have brought them. Interview the boatmen, the skippers, here and at other locations like Pattaya. I still believe it's local and somebody is keeping his mouth shut, a friend, parents, whoever.

I do believe that yabaah is involved, must be, not one normal soul would do a thing like this. Indeed, question the drug dealers and it might be the drug dealer who fled for the police, because he knew their names.

I hope the police is reading this forum to, chock dee.

[Alwyn]

The PM should unblock the DM website and the police can learn who to speak to without having to actually having to do the hard work!

You mean Daily Mail -= DM Website?

Is not blocked in the moment, was once when I tried yesterday evening, but not now,

From Udon Thani in the countryside.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2762055/Thai-divers-hunt-missing-murder-weapon-tourists-flock-spot-British-duo-murdered.html

Yup, Daily Mail. It seems a bit hit & miss as you pointed out. I use a VPN so have no issues. I know the DM isn't exactly the most objective media source but it's interesting to see what is being made of this in various cuntries.

[MobileContent]

So they have an argument in a bar and no one sees anything? The barman, security staff, other patrons? A local gangster? No one knows who this is? Selling drugs? No one knows who sells drugs there? Did the police not interview everyone from that bar immediately while the island was in lock down?

Local guy tries to chat up the girl, she rejects him, he gets angry,the guy steps in, local guy storms off, the girl follows to calm him down, shares a cigarette with him,the western guy sees she's gone and goes to look for her, finds the local guy raping her, intervenes and gets taken out by the local guy and his accomplice.

All these full moon parties and the drugs that go with them should banned forthwith.

Who could be involved in the drug trade there I wonder? You know, who would turn a blind eye for a share of the profits?

Regardless, the perpetrator is long gone but will probably return after this is all forgotten which will be in a couple of weeks when the police come up with nothing and the media find something else to tittilate the public with.

I would be very surprised if this gets solved but I hope it does.

This case will not get solved. Don't be surprised if on the end they will find a scapegoat and he will be shot for resisting arrest.

[Alwyn]

The PM should unblock the DM website and the police can learn who to speak to without having to actually having to do the hard work!

You mean Daily Mail -= DM Website?

Is not blocked in the moment, was once when I tried yesterday evening, but not now,

From Udon Thani in the countryside.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2762055/Thai-divers-hunt-missing-murder-weapon-tourists-flock-spot-British-duo-murdered.html

i live in Udon Thani and use True Hi-Speed Internet. The Daily Mail site is blocked as is any news item on Yahoo UK etc which is sourced to the Mail.

I invested in a VPN when I was in China as even facebook is banned in China, kept the subscription going so I could BBC iPlayer etc, (and the DM website!!)

[Moo2cm]

I knew somebody that was murdered in Thailand a few years back. By this point in the investigation you should be able to write any "may have" article off the top of your head and be as accurate as anything you see or read in the media.

Sympathies to the families.

[laobali]

This is when you find out what I suspect already about Resorts in Thailand, The locals look at the Tourists as lumps of meat with large wallets. If it is a "Local" who committed this crime then another local will know who it is , a local will know if someone has disappeared. So the question is will a Thai inform on a Thai for killing and diving away their bread and butter

Was that an unintentional slip? It seems that diving is the island's bread and butter income earner. The all night beach raves are the jam, served by gangsters and other opportunists.

[Sparkles]

How many more theories are the BIB going to release to the media. Just get on with the job, the trail is now 7 days old

[blowin]

One thing that surprised me about Ko Toa is how late its bars shut. Walking home in the dark on a beach pitch black isn't a good idea. Why did they return to their hotel that way is there lit up areas on the beach now? I've been there twice and there was no lighting next to the beach. Also there is news reports of a second weapon a stick, can anyone confirm this? And the Chris Ware going home is to me strange, if it were my best mate from childhood killed I'd stay and try to help find out who did this to him. The gangster theory seems a little far fetched more over its a national vacationing on Ko To a who has returned home by now.

Sorry mr wilson we have been trough all this with the poor unfortunate Chris Ware. I am not going into it but I see you are new in these parts so do a bit of research and see what was said about this innocent man. But if you are troll poster I am sorry for bothering your fun.

I have said that this scourge YABA is involved as similar has happened our family perpetrated by by a small 16 year old boy. Ironically the court case is on next week and he barely (so he says) remembers what happened. But the damage he was able to do on his own was frightening as seen in this despicable murder. I could go on about the police and the dealers in this case but I would be going off topic. Just to say when this happens to you and and your family no words can explain the pain and torment these poor families are going trough and especially the friends that were on holidays with Hannah and David.

[laolover88]

On the basis that to hit the pocket is the best way to proceed... I should close down Koh Tao...no business until I get co-operation and the truth. Not difficult to do

[slygeeza]

One thing that surprised me about Ko Toa is how late its bars shut. Walking home in the dark on a beach pitch black isn't a good idea. Why did they return to their hotel that way is there lit up areas on the beach now? I've been there twice and there was no lighting next to the beach. Also there is news reports of a second weapon a stick, can anyone confirm this? And the Chris Ware going home is to me strange, if it were my best mate from childhood killed I'd stay and try to help find out who did this to him. The gangster theory seems a little far fetched more over its a national vacationing on Ko To a who has returned home by now.

Sorry mr wilson we have been trough all this with the poor unfortunate Chris Ware. I am not going into it but I see you are new in these parts so do a bit of research and see what was said about this innocent man. But if you are troll poster I am sorry for bothering your fun.

I have said that this scourge YABA is involved as similar has happened our family perpetrated by by a small 16 year old boy. Ironically the court case is on next week and he barely (so he says) remembers what happened. But the damage he was able to do on his own was frightening as seen in this despicable murder. I could go on about the police and the dealers in this case but I would be going off topic. Just to say when this happens to you and and your family no words can explain the pain and torment these poor families are going trough and especially the friends that were on holidays with Hannah and David.

people dont realize how much violent crime (much of it completely random and unprovoked) can be attributed to the effects of yaba, but sadly we all know who controls the yaba trade in Thailand so thats not going to change

[ukrules]

So they have an argument in a bar and no one sees anything? The barman, security staff, other patrons? A local gangster? No one knows who this is? Selling drugs? No one knows who sells drugs there? Did the police not interview everyone from that bar immediately while the island was in lock down?

The local gangster theory has been going around for some time now.

[ClutchClark]

One thing that surprised me about Ko Toa is how late its bars shut. Walking home in the dark on a beach pitch black isn't a good idea. Why did they return to their hotel that way is there lit up areas on the beach now? I've been there twice and there was no lighting next to the beach. Also there is news reports of a second weapon a stick, can anyone confirm this? And the Chris Ware going home is to me strange, if it were my best mate from childhood killed I'd stay and try to help find out who did this to him. The gangster theory seems a little far fetched more over its a national vacationing on Ko To a who has returned home by now.

Sorry mr wilson we have been trough all this with the poor unfortunate Chris Ware. I am not going into it but I see you are new in these parts so do a bit of research and see what was said about this innocent man. But if you are troll poster I am sorry for bothering your fun.

I have said that this scourge YABA is involved as similar has happened our family perpetrated by by a small 16 year old boy. Ironically the court case is on next week and he barely (so he says) remembers what happened. But the damage he was able to do on his own was frightening as seen in this despicable murder. I could go on about the police and the dealers in this case but I would be going off topic. Just to say when this happens to you and and your family no words can explain the pain and torment these poor families are going trough and especially the friends that were on holidays with Hannah and David.

people dont realize how much violent crime (much of it completely random and unprovoked) can be attributed to the effects of yaba, but sadly we all know who controls the yaba trade in Thailand so thats not going to change

Strange, I see Yaba busts making headlines all the time.

And what do you propose? Locking every junkie up?

This is not another grand conspiracy any more than drugs are anywhere.

[ClutchClark]

On the basis that to hit the pocket is the best way to proceed... I should close down Koh Tao...no business until I get co-operation and the truth. Not difficult to do

Yes, because that is what we do in our Western countries--we destroy the economies of entire communities in order to force them to give up their bad guy. A bad guy that might not even be a member of that community.

[crazydrummerpauly]

Every day it's a new kind of suspect - on the BBC today it's 'Fishermen'...who next ?

[rondii]

Maybe they were rather quick to rule out Thai's...

They never ruled them out. Every report I have read that talked of suspect groups has always included "local Thais ".

[Globeman]

One thing that surprised me about Ko Toa is how late its bars shut. Walking home in the dark on a beach pitch black isn't a good idea. Why did they return to their hotel that way is there lit up areas on the beach now? I've been there twice and there was no lighting next to the beach. Also there is news reports of a second weapon a stick, can anyone confirm this? And the Chris Ware going home is to me strange, if it were my best mate from childhood killed I'd stay and try to help find out who did this to him. The gangster theory seems a little far fetched more over its a national vacationing on Ko To a who has returned home by now.

People like walking along the beach at night because it is a beautiful place. They certainly don't do it to get themselves raped and murdered.

Yes, the Chris Ware thing is strange - some people are strange. But the DNA testing appears to have cleared him.

The gangster theory is farfetched? Really? Why? They are everywhere in Thailand. A vacationing Thai? You think there are no gangsters on Koh Tao? That's a bit naive. Pick an island - any island - and it has a local mafia or three.. .and Koh Tao's is small and totally insular. You'd have trouble getting anyone to bear witness against such a person, unless the police jailed all of the guy's friends and all of his family.

The scenario that has been looming in my mind the whole time has been: Entitled youngster (that's 20s to me) of local mafia family - and one or two of his mates.... used to acting with total impunity, which, over the years, has made the little bastard into an egomaniacal bastard, capable of almost anything. Zipped on speed and booze - the world's best combination for having stupid ideas and actually following through on them. They decide to follow these two or happen upon them and decide to have a go at the girl, and things turn uglier and uglier. If there'd been an argument between the tourists and someone who fancies himself as a local "big dick" with an even more inflated (and falsely based) sense of pride than your average Thai male, that would make perfect sense - and explain the heights of the anger and cruelty. Speeding off his teats, he rounds up a mate or two to "teach them a lesson about who is important around here and showing "the proper respect." And, as always in his life... he gets away with it.

This was the first scenario dreamed up by most people who have lived here awhile... it was certainly the first guess of several people I know who lived in Koh Tao for extended periods. But these police clowns, keen not to implicate a Thai, in line with the nationalistic fantasies of their boss, (Quote: "I cannot believe a Thai person did this"), have been bungling about Keystone-style trying to blame migrant workers who normally wouldn't say boo to a mouse... aggressive Burmese migrant workers don't last long in places like koh Tao - they have no protection whatsoever, and as we have seen, are the first people to get blamed. Koh Tao would not be the place to be a Burmese criminal.

So finally they get on the right track... and it will be too late, and the guy will get away with it.

[ScotBkk]

So they have an argument in a bar and no one sees anything? The barman, security staff, other patrons? A local gangster? No one knows who this is? Selling drugs? No one knows who sells drugs there? Did the police not interview everyone from that bar immediately while the island was in lock down?

Local guy tries to chat up the girl, she rejects him, he gets angry,the guy steps in, local guy storms off, the girl follows to calm him down, shares a cigarette with him,the western guy sees she's gone and goes to look for her, finds the local guy raping her, intervenes and gets taken out by the local guy and his accomplice.

Why would an English tourist follow a local gangster out of a bar to calm him down?

I would imagine that they were seen earlier in the evening and then followed to the beach by two people, they thought they could knock out the boyfriend and rape the girl but they didn't expect them both to fight back, they panicked and killed both of them.

Local gangsters wouldn't be leaving tourists's bodies on beach, the bodies would be on a boat and disappearing into the ocean. I don't think the local police are protecting anyone in this case as the stakes are simply too high and there is too much international media involved in the case now. The army would not let some little two bit island gangster get off with murdering two tourists I just don't see it happening in today's Thailand they would know the situation themselves and they seem to take enjoyment in embarrassing the police force at any opportunity.

I'm just not buying the weird conspiracy theories, I think it's fairly likely that a couple of low paid Thais or Burmese committed the act and have fled the island since and I believe that sooner or later someone will rat them out. The Thais ALWAYS rat each other out eventually.

The evidence now suggests the girl shared a cigarette with her killer, given the DNA match and lipstick traces. Therefore she had some form of social contact beforehand. Did the killer(s) coerce her out of the bar somehow? I don't believe there are no witnesses.

Would it not have been easy for them to stick the cigarette in her mouth to throw Police off the scent? Did she smoke ?

[ttthailand]

If it was someone with money they would surely have a car off the island near where the boats would go to bring people on and off. I would think that there would be cameras somewhere, 7/11, car park, street, or some other local business showing everyone leaving that night and next day. Track every car and truck to where it is from by license plate. Could not be more than a few hundred and with a little help from the army it should be an easy task. Interview and take DNA from each driver and all people in car or truck.

I think also rise the reward to one or two million baht or even more. That is enough to turn most Thais even against their best friend. The cost could be in the billions of baht to Thailand if this does not get solved quickly and the lowlifes punished harshly.

[inzman]

I've read the reports several times on different blogs that a high so Thai was hitting on her in a bar and this caused a rukus. Certainly with the Thai mentality of face the instigator would seek retribution. This is an important lead to follow up on, or maybe because of influence it has been scrapped. Doesn't look like it will be solved at this point, seven days on, no leads?

[Thaiready]

Is there Gangsters in Thailand ?????

Never seen any....only a bunch of wannabe gangster low-life scum.

[Globeman]

Maybe they were rather quick to rule out Thai's...

They never ruled them out. Every report I have read that talked of suspect groups has always included "local Thais ".

Really? Got any links to these stories? Everything I read went from Burmese to Farang back to Burmese. The police have blatantly been avoiding going after Thai suspects. There are enough obvious ones to start with on that island.

[NCFC]

So they have an argument in a bar and no one sees anything? The barman, security staff, other patrons? A local gangster? No one knows who this is? Selling drugs? No one knows who sells drugs there? Did the police not interview everyone from that bar immediately while the island was in lock down?

Local guy tries to chat up the girl, she rejects him, he gets angry,the guy steps in, local guy storms off, the girl follows to calm him down, shares a cigarette with him,the western guy sees she's gone and goes to look for her, finds the local guy raping her, intervenes and gets taken out by the local guy and his accomplice.

Why would an English tourist follow a local gangster out of a bar to calm him down?

I would imagine that they were seen earlier in the evening and then followed to the beach by two people, they thought they could knock out the boyfriend and rape the girl but they didn't expect them both to fight back, they panicked and killed both of them.

Local gangsters wouldn't be leaving tourists's bodies on beach, the bodies would be on a boat and disappearing into the ocean. I don't think the local police are protecting anyone in this case as the stakes are simply too high and there is too much international media involved in the case now. The army would not let some little two bit island gangster get off with murdering two tourists I just don't see it happening in today's Thailand they would know the situation themselves and they seem to take enjoyment in embarrassing the police force at any opportunity.

I'm just not buying the weird conspiracy theories, I think it's fairly likely that a couple of low paid Thais or Burmese committed the act and have fled the island since and I believe that sooner or later someone will rat them out. The Thais ALWAYS rat each other out eventually.

The evidence now suggests the girl shared a cigarette with her killer, given the DNA match and lipstick traces. Therefore she had some form of social contact beforehand. Did the killer(s) coerce her out of the bar somehow? I don't believe there are no witnesses.

Would it not have been easy for them to stick the cigarette in her mouth to throw Police off the scent? Did she smoke ?

The cigarette butt was 20-30 metres from the body and without getting into the gruesome details too much just suffice to say i don't think they would have been able to put the cigarette in her mouth. Besides, why do that and leave the bloodied hoe?

Whether Hannah smoked should be easy to ascertain.

[jucel]

Been on about this for days. Shame on the local police. Where are all the Thai apologist sycophants now?

The local authorities have been running interference since the case opened.

Don't just get the perpetrators, have an enquiry into ALL the police on the island.

Heads need to roll and precedents set!

[lucaswallachia]

David's body was naked with the clothes strewn around, so he either was stripped by the murderers, skinny dipping, or having sex with Hannah.

[ClutchClark]

I've read the reports several times on different blogs that a high so Thai was hitting on her in a bar and this caused a rukus. Certainly with the Thai mentality of face the instigator would seek retribution. This is an important lead to follow up on, or maybe because of influence it has been scrapped. Doesn't look like it will be solved at this point, seven days on, no leads?

The majority of violent crime cases the world over take longer than 7 days unless it was an immediate family member or friend.

Police work takes time.

[andyww]

How many more theories are the BIB going to release to the media. Just get on with the job, the trail is now 7 days old

They will continue until the Western press lose interest and stop paying them for theories.

But this could be a very long time in this particular case.

[Lingba]

Obviously by local gangster they mean a foreign criminal who lives locally, not a local man, not a THAI!! That would be impossible to imagine it would seem.

yeah..and I'm beginning to wonder if the reason why solving this is taking so long is because the murderer(s) are/were Thai..and the feet are dragging in order to find alibis