As the world watches, PM Prayuth goes abroad

[jpeg]

I am not sure if the response was to me, as you seem to have mixed in two responses into one quote nest, but i suspect it is.

Do you seriously think if the army had not stepped in there would have been resolution to the way the country was being managed, would the previous government have sat down and thrashed out a resolution, the in fighting between the various factions would have continued, more innocent deaths would have occurred, pretty much overnight this stopped. At some point someone needs to step in and quell all the fighting and political unrest that occurs.

History is there to be changed, and i don't see any reason why i should doubt that it will not happen, you cannot simply keep reverting back in time to past events to judge what is occurring today. Non of us can foresee what the overall intentions of the new government are, but i for one m willing to give them a chance and from what i have seen so far is a man determined to make change.

I still have not seen a good 'alternative' to what occurred, and your post still does not address this, the army is not going around killing people for peace, they are stopping the killing of people in the name of peace.

Yes, I do. IF all this country's army's hadn't 'stepped in' oh so many times, and the people of this country had been ALLOWED to DEVELOP democracy, as that which was fought for and won in the West. But they weren't. Do try to think of the bigger consequences of continually supressing dissent, in all it's forms.

Ohh come on, listen to yourself, if things were left as they were do you seriously believe they would have self rectified over time and not festered into more unrest and power struggles. To some effect they were suppressing the dissent of multiple factions as their actions were beginning to have an adverse affect on the common person. I agree suppressing common political dissent should be a no..no, as this is normal democratic behavior, but when it gets to the stage it did, then someone needs to make a decision to step in and stop the rot.

It is a long road ahead and non of us know if we will see a democratically elected government rule with the peoples interests truly at heart, but at the moment i do not see anything better, do you ?

Still not sinking in. Is it

[muntergok]

Have the others attending these meetings been warned that he does not want to be asked any awkward or difficult questions ?

[gemini81]

Really..most of the world knows little about Thailand to begin with, let alone details to this depth, and let alone whether those abroad would really even care in their everyday normal lives, to be honest.

[Expat Girl]

I am not sure if the response was to me, as you seem to have mixed in two responses into one quote nest, but i suspect it is.

Do you seriously think if the army had not stepped in there would have been resolution to the way the country was being managed, would the previous government have sat down and thrashed out a resolution, the in fighting between the various factions would have continued, more innocent deaths would have occurred, pretty much overnight this stopped. At some point someone needs to step in and quell all the fighting and political unrest that occurs.

History is there to be changed, and i don't see any reason why i should doubt that it will not happen, you cannot simply keep reverting back in time to past events to judge what is occurring today. Non of us can foresee what the overall intentions of the new government are, but i for one m willing to give them a chance and from what i have seen so far is a man determined to make change.

I still have not seen a good 'alternative' to what occurred, and your post still does not address this, the army is not going around killing people for peace, they are stopping the killing of people in the name of peace.

Yes, I do. IF all this country's army's hadn't 'stepped in' oh so many times, and the people of this country had been ALLOWED to DEVELOP democracy, as that which was fought for and won in the West. But they weren't. Do try to think of the bigger consequences of continually supressing dissent, in all it's forms.

Ohh come on, listen to yourself, if things were left as they were do you seriously believe they would have self rectified over time and not festered into more unrest and power struggles. To some effect they were suppressing the dissent of multiple factions as their actions were beginning to have an adverse affect on the common person. I agree suppressing common political dissent should be a no..no, as this is normal democratic behavior, but when it gets to the stage it did, then someone needs to make a decision to step in and stop the rot.

It is a long road ahead and non of us know if we will see a democratically elected government rule with the peoples interests truly at heart, but at the moment i do not see anything better, do you ?

Still not sinking in. Is it

Is what not sinking in, i have yet to see a good argument to say what the military did was bad for the country at the time, again what was the alternative, can you give me a robust answer to that question, then it may sink in But i am sure your can't otherwise you would not be giving me silly one liners in response.

Edited September 22, 2014 by Expat Girl

[Nickymaster]

Have the others attending these meetings been warned that he does not want to be asked any awkward or difficult questions ?

To be fair, this joke has been used A LOT on Yingluck. Find something new if you want to be funny.

[Nickymaster]

What about 87% of these same people expressing regret at ever marching (once they smelt an agenda?)

No?

Don't believe me?

Its there in Bangkok Post .

As the prior poster understood (and eventually even these people in your photo)

What about 87% of these same people expressing regret at ever marching (once they smelt an agenda?)

You mean "the agenda" to have Prayuth clean-up Thailand?

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/Prayuth-govt-enjoys-high-approval-rating-of-8-8-po-30243756.html

Let's look at Yingluck's govenement approval rating in Aug 2013. A few months before the whitewash bill and a few months before Suthep started his protests.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Govts-approval-rating-lowest-in-2-years-30211860.html

Edited September 22, 2014 by Nickymaster

[AleG]

at the time that Suthep began his protest, the coup was a foregone conclusion.

the unrest was started so that the coup could be justified.

it's a tried and true MO for royalist anti-democrats in Thailand. We've seen it before.

So one 'alternative' would have been for the (royalist) courts to have more effectively removed and replaced the government with Suthep's 'former' party.

But that was not the blue print from Suthep. Remember he called for reform before elections and with a vague idea of an (unelected) interim government and reform council.

The obvious problem with his plan is that there was no constitutional mechanism to allow that.

The beauty of his plan is that there was a military available to do that. Do you not recall him calling for the military to step in as early as December?

The coup was not about stopping the unrest. The unrest was the key to open the door for the coup.

The unrest started when PTP used the Amnesty Bill as a means to whitewash Thaksin, after swearing for months that they wouldn't. That is a fact, if you can handle it.

Then PTP's little red helpers started, again, to use terrorism on behalf of their masters, murdering and maiming people.

All of that you choose to remove from your narrative and conscience, so why should anyone pay any attention to your self serving theories?

[AleG]

Quote Obama *(In Bangkok at state dinner )

Transcript

And today, I'm proud to stand beside the democratically-elected leader of Thailand, and to reaffirm the importance of upholding democracy, governance, rule of law, and universal human rights -- all of which I know, Madam Prime Minister, that you believe in very deeply. When we met in Bali last year, the Prime Minister and I discussed how we could deepen and broaden the partnership between our countries. And with this visit, I'm pleased that we've agreed to a series of efforts that revitalize our alliance to meet the challenges and opportunities of our time.

Read more: http://iipdigital.usembassy.gov/st/english/texttrans/2012/11/20121118138836.html#ixzz3E2JjOWGI

Too bad the actual (albeit unelected) PM wasn't there to hear about "the importance of upholding democracy, governance, rule of law, and universal human rights", if PTP would have followed that advice we wouldn't be in the current situation. But they just can't help themselves.

[tbthailand]

at the time that Suthep began his protest, the coup was a foregone conclusion.

the unrest was started so that the coup could be justified.

it's a tried and true MO for royalist anti-democrats in Thailand. We've seen it before.

So one 'alternative' would have been for the (royalist) courts to have more effectively removed and replaced the government with Suthep's 'former' party.

But that was not the blue print from Suthep. Remember he called for reform before elections and with a vague idea of an (unelected) interim government and reform council.

The obvious problem with his plan is that there was no constitutional mechanism to allow that.

The beauty of his plan is that there was a military available to do that. Do you not recall him calling for the military to step in as early as December?

The coup was not about stopping the unrest. The unrest was the key to open the door for the coup.

The unrest started when PTP used the Amnesty Bill as a means to whitewash Thaksin, after swearing for months that they wouldn't. That is a fact, if you can handle it.

Then PTP's little red helpers started, again, to use terrorism on behalf of their masters, murdering and maiming people.

All of that you choose to remove from your narrative and conscience, so why should anyone pay any attention to your self serving theories?

as a dyed-in-the-wool junta cheerleader, I recommend that you do not pay attention to reality and just keep waving the pom-poms.

[AleG]

The unrest started when PTP used the Amnesty Bill as a means to whitewash Thaksin, after swearing for months that they wouldn't. That is a fact, if you can handle it.

Then PTP's little red helpers started, again, to use terrorism on behalf of their masters, murdering and maiming people.

All of that you choose to remove from your narrative and conscience, so why should anyone pay any attention to your self serving theories?

as a dyed-in-the-wool junta cheerleader, I recommend that you do not pay attention to reality and just keep waving the pom-poms.

The unrest began with PTP's "Amnesty" Bill, you can spin, you can call names you can stomp your feet as much as you like, but that is a fact and reality doesn't depend on your personal beliefs.

[tbthailand]

at the time that Suthep began his protest, the coup was a foregone conclusion.

the unrest was started so that the coup could be justified.

it's a tried and true MO for royalist anti-democrats in Thailand. We've seen it before.

So one 'alternative' would have been for the (royalist) courts to have more effectively removed and replaced the government with Suthep's 'former' party.

But that was not the blue print from Suthep. Remember he called for reform before elections and with a vague idea of an (unelected) interim government and reform council.

The obvious problem with his plan is that there was no constitutional mechanism to allow that.

The beauty of his plan is that there was a military available to do that. Do you not recall him calling for the military to step in as early as December?

The coup was not about stopping the unrest. The unrest was the key to open the door for the coup.

The unrest started when PTP used the Amnesty Bill as a means to whitewash Thaksin, after swearing for months that they wouldn't. That is a fact, if you can handle it.

Then PTP's little red helpers started, again, to use terrorism on behalf of their masters, murdering and maiming people.

All of that you choose to remove from your narrative and conscience, so why should anyone pay any attention to your self serving theories?

just a note to add that I remember well the violence from both sides in the recent months, as well as over the last decade, and I hope for a day when Thai people from all walks of life stop turning to violence in their political struggles.

[Fred Flinstone]

I still reckon they will whack this "dear leader"" Pin up boy if he wanders into the real world.

It will be a "'who done it"?

So many players want his arse .

Yanks

Brits
Aussies

Germans

French

Russians

Edited September 22, 2014 by Fred Flinstone

[tbthailand]

The unrest started when PTP used the Amnesty Bill as a means to whitewash Thaksin, after swearing for months that they wouldn't. That is a fact, if you can handle it.

Then PTP's little red helpers started, again, to use terrorism on behalf of their masters, murdering and maiming people.

All of that you choose to remove from your narrative and conscience, so why should anyone pay any attention to your self serving theories?

as a dyed-in-the-wool junta cheerleader, I recommend that you do not pay attention to reality and just keep waving the pom-poms.

The unrest began with PTP's "Amnesty" Bill, you can spin, you can call names you can stomp your feet as much as you like, but that is a fact and reality doesn't depend on your personal beliefs.

if you believe that the amnesty bill is the reason that Suthep was still on the streets well after the amnesty bill was dead, or that he cared about anything except his own acknowledged goal of 'rooting out' the Thaksin network (and what that then implies) from Thailand, then go ahead. It's up to you.

I think it would be more honest if you acknowledge what really happened and then continued to cheer the Junta on. The coup happened because the military determined that a coup was necessary to protect their own long-term interests.

[Fred Flinstone]

You guys are comedians -

You can't possibly win an election so you use guns to rule.

Watch the world will judge-

No amount of make believe here matters.

In the long run you loose.

Starting with the boss

[Nickymaster]

You guys are comedians -

You can't possibly win an election so you use guns to rule.

Watch the world will judge-

No amount of make believe here matters.

In the long run you loose.

Starting with the boss

Using the "you can't win an election" card is a sign of weakness. A sign that you have run out of arguments. Prayuth is popular. Get used to it.

YES! The world is the judge. I agree.

http://news.yahoo.com/photos/thailands-newly-appointed-prime-minister-prayuth-attends-meeting-photo-184132697.html

http://mcot-web.mcot.net/9ent/site/view/id/53bf6b72be047098308b45ba

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/09/06/uk-volkswagen-thailand-idUKKBN0H10FR20140906

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/junta-chief-meets-us-envoy/

http://www.thailandnews.co/2014/09/us-japanese-ambassadors-meet-new-thai-foreign-minister/

Edited September 22, 2014 by Nickymaster

[Expat Girl]

I still reckon they will whack this "dear leader"" Pin up boy if he wanders into the real world.

It will be a "'who done it"?

So many players want his arse .

Yanks

Brits

Aussies

Germans

French

Russians

I think you need to wander into the real world, and not the stone age existence you seem to lumber in. Why do they all want to 'whack' him, the French, the Russians and so on, i am sure you cant give a sensible answer to that question, just another ramble.....

[mikemac]

Should be some interesting fireworks, as it will be the first time Prayuth has to deal with people saying all the things that are banned in this forum, without being able to arrest them at will for "attitude adjustment".

Sent from my IS11T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Wow, you really flushed all the snakes out of the long grass with that one !

At least the General can return to his home country whenever he feels like it, without the fear of being arrested and locked up.

[metisdead]

A number of off topic posts and replies have been removed.

[Plutojames88]

I still reckon they will whack this "dear leader"" Pin up boy if he wanders into the real world.

It will be a "'who done it"?

So many players want his arse .

Yanks

Brits

Aussies

Germans

French

Russians

Ok, I too am puzzled .

I noted the Kremlin being annoyed at Visa problems and being outraged ..check .

The Aussies , well yes ..they banned him.

The Americans well that a given.

The Germans yes ( that goes back ..but found that one)

British ..obvious at present ...

Sorry can't find a reason for the French ?

Anyone?

And your wasting your time arguing with these people Fred ...

Their replies place them in Bedrock

[rubl]

... , as for Australia not welcoming P.M. Prayuth, as has been said , show me that memo from the Australian Governments media unit or any interview from Foreign Minister Julie Bishop, as I haven't seen any that says that , Thailand has close ties with Australia and the heads of departments or business are in Australia or vise versa on a weekly basis.

I've been testing this brand new thing... Gruel or Groggle... something like that. Seems to work.

(Reuters) - Australia downgraded ties with Thailand on Saturday in the wake of this month's military coup, imposing a travel ban on the junta leaders and cutting defence cooperation in some of the toughest punitive measures taken by a foreign government.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/05/31/uk-thailand-politics-australia-idUKKBN0EB06O20140531

The interesting thing with democratic countries where the politicians sometimes kneejerk a bit or do what they think their voters like, is that they're more likely to public denounce a coup and publicly talk about travel bans. When after a while the ban is lifted or lessened there will be no public announcement. Politicians would not have anything to gain by such of course, only business and so.

As it is I have no idea what the current status is. Wouldn't be much surprised though if some traffic is possible. All IMHO and so.

[Boxclever]

He is banned from Australia from travel here-

He is also never going to be addressed or given any ear by "'any "" Australian Parliament representative.

The other Government members are also banned. *(From Australian soil)

Interesting. Why?

Because Australians don't take lightly to dictators that's why.

[baboon]

Should be some interesting fireworks, as it will be the first time Prayuth has to deal with people saying all the things that are banned in this forum, without being able to arrest them at will for "attitude adjustment".

Sent from my IS11T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Wow, you really flushed all the snakes out of the long grass with that one !

At least the General can return to his home country whenever he feels like it, without the fear of being arrested and locked up.

Quite. As can Bob Mugabe.

[rubl]

I still reckon they will whack this "dear leader"" Pin up boy if he wanders into the real world.

It will be a "'who done it"?

So many players want his arse .

Yanks

Brits

Aussies

Germans

French

Russians

Ok, I too am puzzled .

I noted the Kremlin being annoyed at Visa problems and being outraged ..check .

The Aussies , well yes ..they banned him.

The Americans well that a given.

The Germans yes ( that goes back ..but found that one)

British ..obvious at present ...

Sorry can't find a reason for the French ?

Anyone?

And your wasting your time arguing with these people Fred ...

Their replies place them in Bedrock

Totally agree, Fred's wasting both his and our time with his nonsense. As if thosecountries want PM Prayuth's ass. Personally I would have though that of the previous PM would be more interesting.

Anyway, as the world moves on, some seem stuck.

[rubl]

You guys are comedians -

You can't possibly win an election so you use guns to rule.

Watch the world will judge-

No amount of make believe here matters.

In the long run you loose.

Starting with the boss

You may have missed this, but none of "us" is actually participating in elections (I think) and certainly not in Thailand. As such "we" don't win or lose and somehow any Thai government frowns upon foreigners having arms and walking around with them here.

PS I've just been granted permission by my boss to tell you she never loses, is always right, and as farang you obviously know diddly <deleted>.

Possibly with respect,

uncle rubl

[rubl]

Should be some interesting fireworks, as it will be the first time Prayuth has to deal with people saying all the things that are banned in this forum, without being able to arrest them at will for "attitude adjustment".

Sent from my IS11T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Wow, you really flushed all the snakes out of the long grass with that one !

At least the General can return to his home country whenever he feels like it, without the fear of being arrested and locked up.

Quite. As can Bob Mugabe.

Plus Pres. Obama, Ms. Merkel, and about almost any of the guys and girls who'll be present to welcome PM Prayuth

[rubl]

I doubt if he will be even received by many of the ministers of the other countries attending.

He is likely to be be persona non grata?

The standard practice is either to shake hands and talk politely about the weather - or not let him in, as they used to do with the nice generals from Burma. You don't invite someone and then make him PNG. Not even Europeans would do that.

If he's there, he won't be actually shunned. Handshakes and small smiles and much discussion of his flight and the cool temperature will take place. Embraces? None. Two-handed handshakes? None. Handshake with other hand on the shoulder? Rub a lamp.

He will have little to say himself because his aides will tell him that no one will pay attention (see today's Page 1 of the English newspaper whose name starts with "Bangkok"). He will be there, in the words of at least a dozen very learned analysts seen and heard on TV and a couple of newspaper, to learn and show that Thailand is very concerned about its role and image in the world. And also blah-blah-blah and certainly yadda-yadda etc etc etc. In preparation, next time you fly, steal a few of those special plastic-lined bags.

My opinion is that the chances of his actually accomplishing anything but forced-smile front-page handshaking pictures for the swooning adulating masses of Thailand range from none, all the way to none at all. This is not, however, a minor achievement on the homefront, where the media will be forced to say that Europe welcomed him and obviously the diplomatic opposition to the coup is crumbling. And who will contradict them?

You might be right, you might be wrong. Much can happen in a few weeks time.

BTW I haven't seen the program, but what would PM Prayuth be supposed to achieve if he had been a somewhat more regular PM ? Anyway 10-16 October 2014, just noted in my agenda. Would that the future happen today.

PS you still tend to move from 'my opinion' to assuming that's correct and continuing with various assumptions based on that, but stated as facts. You should apply more logic, my dear.

[baboon]

Should be some interesting fireworks, as it will be the first time Prayuth has to deal with people saying all the things that are banned in this forum, without being able to arrest them at will for "attitude adjustment".

Sent from my IS11T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Wow, you really flushed all the snakes out of the long grass with that one !

At least the General can return to his home country whenever he feels like it, without the fear of being arrested and locked up.

Quite. As can Bob Mugabe.

Plus Pres. Obama, Ms. Merkel, and about almost any of the guys and girls who'll be present to welcome PM Prayuth

Which is of course why they are there.

[ThailandNoob]

Should be some interesting fireworks, as it will be the first time Prayuth has to deal with people saying all the things that are banned in this forum, without being able to arrest them at will for "attitude adjustment".

Sent from my IS11T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Wow, you really flushed all the snakes out of the long grass with that one !

At least the General can return to his home country whenever he feels like it, without the fear of being arrested and locked up.

Unlike Professor Pavin from Kyoto University, who has committed the heinous crime of calling for democracy.

Sent from my IS11T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Edited September 22, 2014 by ThailandNoob

[Baerboxer]

Do you think his predecessors have all been more warmly welcomed?

Let's wait and see as none of the leading countries' governments appear to be too critical at the moment. I'm sure some will be interested in the timetable for elections, freedom of speech etc. So I hope he's prepared for that.

I think you do other countries foreign services a disservice. They are all well aware of the issues connected with the previous administration which might explain why not one supported it.

Your question is relevant but the rest of the post is quite naive. The answer to the question is "yes, on occasion". It all depended if Thailand was involved in the issues of the day. When it was, then the answer to your question is "very much so". In the past couple of years, Thailand has withdrawn from virtually everything except the Free Trade Agreement talks, which it has essentially torpedoed. So this assures that Prayut will not be invited to discuss anything beyond the weather.

But your question misses the point, which is why you segue into strange territory. His predecessors, to a man and woman jack, have all been hugely welcome (no "d" on the end) in Europe. And Prayut will only be tolerated. This whole Asean-Europe thing is fairly new, maybe a decade. But through it all until now, every Thai leader was warmly welcomed because Thailand was on a Europe-approved road of democracy, development and much, much more. Prayut won't be cold-shouldered because he has nothing to offer. He'll be shunned because in Europe and elsewhere he is seen as the jack-booted thug that Burma and Indonesia used to be. (Doesn't matter if he is or isn't; that's Europe's opinion and they're sticking to it for now.)

Your last para is really out of touch. Leading European countries do NOT support the coup or the coup-makers, and will not support them. Not for years at least. Probably never, especially if Prayut continues to silence the opposition with 3am raids and prison, not to mention a verbal stupidity up there with Mister Biden.

Europe will support Thailand for many reasons, but without a kind word or a single pat on the shoulder for any of its ministers. They do business with regimes a lot more rotten than the Thai military, that's for sure, and they will do business with the Thai military. But not with a warm smile and personal regard.

Europe most certainly "supported" the previous government in every possible way you could name - from inviting Herself to the World Economic Forum to very, very warm greetings at the Asean-Europe shindig to many, many courtings over the FTA. It is arrant nonsense to claim Europe did not support the previous government, or the one before it, or the ones before it back to 2008 - when Europe, again, did not support the military regime. Europe is and was perfectly warm and welcoming and happy with previous governments including Democrats, Pheu Thai and PPP. Europe was and isn't warm OR welcoming to military coup regimes.

{snip}{snip} No, it is my belief that he will be treated politely and courteously as this is above all politics.

I was nodding along and then....

I disagree entirely. He will be treated politely and courteously BECAUSE of politics. They can't actually backhand him or shove him aside, BECAUSE of politics. They will have to put on their baby-kissing, flesh-pressing smiles and pretend "it's a pleasure to meet you" when they think exactly the opposite. And they will.

With utmost sincerity, they will fake it, because politics says they have to.

He isn't liked by the Americans or Aussies ...usually they get these kind of people out of the way.

Always good to put a little fantasy in these threads so we don't get bogged down with facts and opinion. Thanks.

.

wel·come

ˈwelkəm/

verb

past tense: welcomed; past participle: welcomed

Your prose reads like the nonsense that Thaksin's lobbyists come out with. Can you give us an example of where one government supported PTP during the protests against first their government and secondly against their caretaker administration?

I thought PTP were tying to get Thailand onto the UN Permanent Security Council? The former PM/DM did put herself about a bit, doing all those trade deals then. Great to here about the results some time. Did all the countries she visited invite her to banquets in her honor. I remember her saying how she always took some instant noodles as she couldn't stand the food. Her speeches were marvelous, thank you three times. Did she get nominated for a Nobel peace prize in the end?

Anyone who believes that the major countries' governments did not know exactly what the PTP administration was up to is naive. Just as the UN, World Bank and IMF knew. Many countries don't like the military throwing out an elected government and said so at the time, and have urged, and keep urging a return to democracy. I haven't read of one demanding the return of government to PTP have you? Why do you think that is? I know for a fact that the UN were concerned about PTP thieving the county dry from day 1. You won't believe me, and I won't be telling you my source, but I know that for sure.

[Plutojames88]

Aside from even being pro data ( you might not know) is enough to get yourself traced and placed on several intelligence agencies lists and monitored .eg all your Internet tracked.

You seem obligated to wheel out non - sense.

If countries love your Thai take off so much why are they banned from entering Australia?

Why has European and America repeatedly expressed their wish for democracy?

You say the old propaganda lines Luke "" no one has insisted the old Government is put back.

Anyone with diplomatic knowledge knows the judicial coup prior to the military dismissing the Prime minister was enough to keep other countries at bay, simply because they don't like interfering in politics.

No matter how disgusted they felt.

So you have bans in place and no real recognition .

However commence is different.

Your snub is mainly political with no one acknowledging his legitimate right to rule. Other than a few groupies claiming to see the greatness of the man.

And fearful Thais answering the dear leaders survey polls.

Freedoms need to be returned to the Thai people

Edited September 22, 2014 by Plutojames88