Two Tourists Run Over On Zebra Crossing

[Momenthai]

Two tourists run over on zebra crossing

WASSAYOS NGAMKHAM

Two foreign visitors were crushed to death by an excavator as they held aloft road safety flags while crossing a busy road in Bangkok yesterday.

British tourist Gary Thomas Chambers, 28, and his Norwegian girlfriend Hanne Karlsen, 20, were seen waving the flags to alert passing traffic before stepping out onto the pedestrian crossing in front of the Princess Hotel on Lan Luang road in Pomprap Sattruphai district.

A witness said the two were then hit by an eight-wheel backhoe. The heavy vehicle mowed them down in the bus lane, crushing them both to death.

Pol Maj Akarachai Chamchoi, inspector of Nang Loeng station, said each of the tourists was carrying a safety flag. The flags were placed on the roadside so pedestrians could use them to signal oncoming vehicles to stop _ part of a government road safety campaign called ''Safe Crossing With Flags''.

Pol Maj Akarachai said the excavator belonged to the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration. The driver, Saichon Innork, 35, a city employee, was charged with reckless driving.

Mr Saichon said there was a problem with his brakes. He was driving back from a landscaping site and as he approached the hotel he spotted the two tourists but was unable to stop his vehicle. Police said the tyres had almost no tread.

From today's Bangkok Post. This is really sad. I wonder who had the great idea of giving people flags to wave when they want to cross the road!! I drive in Bkk and haven't read about this initiative. The police really need to crack down on this by fining those who are guilty of doing it. I nearly got run over on Sukhmvit Road....the car stopped, drove past and then started reversing to try to hit me again as he was annoyed that I had stepped out in front of him!! He had flashed me which I know in Thailand means "I'm not stopping" but in other countries this is usually a signal to let people go. Anyway that could be another post altogether.....

ps - I tried to post this in the news forum but it wouldn't let me

[meemiathai]

Very very sad. Especially of this age. So young.

And really stupid idea to implement such a system. Giving people false impression.

Edited July 19, 2006 by meemiathai

[Maejo Man]

Another one from the department of "amazing ideas" Extremely sad seeing that they thought they were doing the right thing.

[The Dan Sai Kid]

Another one from the department of "amazing ideas" Extremely sad seeing that they thought they were doing the right thing.

I am of the opinion that stopping at red lights for pedestrians is very important and the police should adopt a zero tolerance attititude.

I think that instead of carrying out helmet checks they should be carrying out red-light checks instead. They should confiscate the cars, with the owners having to collect them from a pound.

How quickly would people learn to slow down, or stop when they are at a pedestrian crossing then?

[Khun Jean]

The driver probably flashed his lights. Here it means "Be aware im not stopping for nobody!" while in many other countries it means they will give you passage.

Small misunderstandings can have big consequenses.

Very very unfortunate.

[doctormann]

This is very sad but not really that surprising, I'm afraid.

Here in Pattaya, where we do have some pedestrian crossings (but I haven't seen any flags) the local drivers seem to have do idea what the striped markings are for. Certainly, any pedestrian foolish enough to treat the crossings as they would in UK, for example, would not survive for very long.

From the driver's perspective, if you do try to stop for a pedestrian you would be very likely to get rear ended by a Baht bus and the pedestrian would probably get taken out by an under / over taking motorcycle in any case!

I don't think that any 'flag waving' initiative is likely to bear much fruit. The only answer really is to educate the populace in the matters of road safety at an early age and then to keep reinforcing the message. The laws relating to road safety (and I guess that there are plenty) need to be enforced.

The other day, in Pattaya, I saw a new, shiny, white police car bearing the slogan 'Road Safety Education Vehicle'. Nice idea but where do you start? It was parked up, by the way, and didn't seem to be educating anyone.

DM

[suiging]

It is often said that by Darwin's theory our local friends will soon be the cleaverest people on earth. The idiots are killing themselves at such a rate on the roads, by natural selection they will rule the world in a few short generations.

[Losangels]

It appears that pedestrians have no right of way here. Many drivers atttitude is that I own a vehicle therefore I am superior and of a high social class than the common pedestrians. Enforcement or lack of traffic laws enforcement contribute to this life threatening problem. I wish I have solution to the problem, meanwhile be extra careful when walking near traffic

[Scott]

This is really sad. I have been laughed at and had passengers get annoyed with me because I (almost) always stop for pedestrians in the Zebra crossing. It's where they are suppose to cross and it's where I am supposed to stop! These crossings are usually well marked and lit. I only proceed if it's clear that the person is NOT going to walk in front of me and I always slow way down, just in case.

The flag idea is absolutely stupid and dangerous. A crosswalk is all that is needed if the law is enforced and cars will know they have to stop--gimmicks like this are dangerous and give a false sense of security.

Another one that I see and I hate is using the emergency flashers to signify that you are going straight. If you are at a 4 way intersection, it looks like it is the blinker that is one. The only ones who can see it's actually the emergency flashers are the people who are coming straight in front or behind the car!! I've almost had several accidents because I thought they were turning and I could go through.

I wish they would just enforce the correct laws and stop all the fancy stuff that ends up with dead bodiesl.

[moonoi]

This is really sad. I have been laughed at and had passengers get annoyed with me because I (almost) always stop for pedestrians in the Zebra crossing. It's where they are suppose to cross and it's where I am supposed to stop! These crossings are usually well marked and lit. I only proceed if it's clear that the person is NOT going to walk in front of me and I always slow way down, just in case.

The flag idea is absolutely stupid and dangerous. A crosswalk is all that is needed if the law is enforced and cars will know they have to stop--gimmicks like this are dangerous and give a false sense of security.

Another one that I see and I hate is using the emergency flashers to signify that you are going straight. If you are at a 4 way intersection, it looks like it is the blinker that is one. The only ones who can see it's actually the emergency flashers are the people who are coming straight in front or behind the car!! I've almost had several accidents because I thought they were turning and I could go through.

I wish they would just enforce the correct laws and stop all the fancy stuff that ends up with dead bodiesl.

Yeah I hate that hazard light thing as well. Apparently its not legal either. The only person who knows your going straight on using the hazard lights as an indicator is the person behind you..........I still can't understand the thai logic on that one

[Plus]

Maybe they should install red lights on demand - if someone is crossing the road he pushes the button and in 10 seconds the light turns red for cars and green for him.

There's one like that on Praditmanutham rd - the one that runs under Ekkamai Ramintra express way and it works. Cars also see countdown to the red.

The case of a backhow running over two people is ridiculous, if it wasn't true.

[salween]

I wish I could say unbelievable, but I’m actually surprised such incidents are not more common. Bangkok can be a very dangerous place for pedestrians, especially those who unknowingly believe that drivers will yield to them in pedestrian zones or anywhere else—flags or not. Reminds of my cycling days when friends used to say they would rather not have a light at the rear, gives the drivers something to aim at. Remedies, the pedestrian controlled red lights sound good, but don’t know how many we’re likely to see.

I trust even were they members of the Royal Family the lax enforcement of traffic laws (any laws) is unlikely to change.

[skippybangkok]

Cars stop 4 cars - not people. I live on Thonglor, and there are lights for people crossing at Camillion Hospital, everyone ignores the lights and drives right on.

Giving flags gives people the wrong impression they are "safe". Better to keep people feeling not at ease, at least they will be more careful.

I remember one time driving down Sukh. from 21 down, on the right outer lane on teh opposite side. A japanese tourist walked out infront of me looking in the opposite direction......... First time i really appreciated ABS. He ended up litterally 10 cm from my bull bar on the 4WD and was very pale when he realized he just used up all his merrit over the years. If I had looked at a radio setting for just half a second, it could have been -10cm. such is luck.

[andyfletch]

Maybe they should install red lights on demand - if someone is crossing the road he pushes the button and in 10 seconds the light turns red for cars and green for him.

There's one like that on Praditmanutham rd - the one that runs under Ekkamai Ramintra express way and it works. Cars also see countdown to the red.

The case of a backhow running over two people is ridiculous, if it wasn't true.

You should try the one's on Asoke then - they are regularly ignored by all and sundry from motor bikes to buses. I've taken to banging taxis on the boot lid as they go past - and my g/f has kicked a couple cos' shes just as pi$$ed off with the complete lack of road coutresy as I am. - and she's Thai!!!!

That is of course when I actually get the chance to spend some time there

Edited July 19, 2006 by andyfletch

[Plus]

I occasionally drive past Camillian Hospital in Thonglor and I've never seen a red light there. There's a major turn into the soi that lead to Ekamai and there might be a flashing yellow over it, that's all.

I haven't been to Asoke for a long time, don't remember any pedestrian operated lights.

I know they have them in Chiang Mai and they usually work. Pushing that button is the only way to cross the road not on red.

[Heng]

Mr Saichon said there was a problem with his brakes.

This is a very common and lame excuse. One of my few complaints about what is otherwise a rather comfortable life here in Thailand are the drivers of buses, trucks, and to a lesser extent construction vehicles (only mostly because there isn't much construction where I go). Duh your brakes failed, it's because you were driving like an idiot (and more often racing another vehicle either for fun or while trying to collect more passengers). These folks need to be publicly whipped.

[moonoi]

Will the BMA be held jointly liable for this tragic accident?

Seems that they allowed a badly maintained vehicle on the roads with bald tyres during the wettest period of the year in Thailand.......

I would say the driver was to blame for driving recklessly, at the same time though his employers should take some of the heat too. Or do they force people to drive vehicles in this condition?

[egeefay]

It was sad to hear that the two foreigners were killed at a zebra crossing while holding flags meant to slow down traffic.

Though much has changed in the LOS over the years, the rules of the road have not.

37 years ago when I was a Peace Corps Volunteer in Bangkok I was walking out to Paholyothin Rd. from Soi Sutisarn where I lived.

There was a zebra crossing across Paholyothin Rd. and I waited for traffic to clear before crossing.

A middle aged Thai woman wearing a Thai-style sarong stood beside me at the crosswalk.

A car in the lane nearest the sidewalk slowed down and stopped for us . Thinking the coast was clear, the Thai lady began crossing the street . For some reason I choose not to follow her.

Without warning, a car, coming up from behind at a fast clip swerved around the stopped vehicle and plowed right into the woman as she crossed the street, sending her flying in the air head over heals about 15 feet straight up...and then down with a thud.

The driver of the vehicle and his passenger quickly got out and without a moments hesitation, grabbed the poor woman by her arms and legs, put her in the back seat of their car and drove quickly off.

I'm guessing, but I think they probably took her somewhere and dumped her. I don't think she could have survived such a crushing blow .

My Thai wife's cousins came to visit us in the US 2 months ago and one comment they made was that in Thailand people may appear to be kind and courteous to each other but when they are behind the wheel they exhibit a rude and vicious side . They were impressed that Americans would slow down and let pedestrians cross the street or give way to shoppers with carts in the mall parking lot.

Edited July 19, 2006 by egeefay

[The Dan Sai Kid]

I know they have them in Chiang Mai and they usually work. Pushing that button is the only way to cross the road not on red.

Yes, they work in CM, but at least 50% of road users just plough on through them - there is not enough law enforcement - I think it is much more important than helmet checks - if someone is as stupid to ride a bike without a helmet then, on their own head ge it (pardon the pu). But, pedestrians should be able to cross roads without fear of getting mowed into, by all manner of road vehicles, when the lights are on red.

[Old Man River]

It was sad to hear that the two foreigners were killed at a zebra crossing while holding flags meant to slow down traffic.

Though much has changed in the LOS over the years, the rules of the road have not.

37 years ago when I was a Peace Corps Volunteer in Bangkok I was walking out to Paholyothin Rd. from Soi Sutisarn where I lived.

There was a zebra crossing across Paholyothin Rd. and I waited for traffic to clear before crossing.

A middle aged Thai woman wearing a Thai-style sarong stood beside me at the crosswalk.

A car in the lane nearest the sidewalk slowed down and stopped for us . Thinking the coast was clear, the Thai lady began crossing the street . For some reason I choose not to follow her.

Without warning, a car, coming up from behind at a fast clip swerved around the stopped vehicle and plowed right into the woman as she crossed the street, sending her flying in the air head over heals about 15 feet straight up...and then down with a thud.

The driver of the vehicle and his passenger quickly got out and without a moments hesitation, grabbed the poor woman by her arms and legs, put her in the back seat of their car and drove quickly off.

I'm guessing, but I think they probably took her somewhere and dumped her. I don't think she could have survived such a crushing blow .

My Thai wife's cousins came to visit us in the US 2 months ago and one comment they made was that in Thailand people may appear to be kind and courteous to each other but when they are behind the wheel they exhibit a rude and vicious side . They were impressed that Americans would slow down and let pedestrians cross the street or give way to shoppers with carts in the mall parking lot.

Complicating the issue on these zebra crossings is that in Singapore, if you enter a zebra crossing, traffic must stop and let you pass. Tourists come into Bangkok, see a zebra crossing, and immediately assume the same is true.

[Crossy]

I haven't been to Asoke for a long time, don't remember any pedestrian operated lights.

There are four or five on Asoke, installed over the last 8 months or so (one has never worked properly, permanent flashing yellow). Manned by police during the rush otherwise pretty well nobody takes notice of them.

Like Andyfletch I've taken to bashing taxis on the boot, sometimes they slow down to see what they've hit, more often they don't bother.

[percy2]

It was sad to hear that the two foreigners were killed at a zebra crossing while holding flags meant to slow down traffic.

Though much has changed in the LOS over the years, the rules of the road have not.

37 years ago when I was a Peace Corps Volunteer in Bangkok I was walking out to Paholyothin Rd. from Soi Sutisarn where I lived.

There was a zebra crossing across Paholyothin Rd. and I waited for traffic to clear before crossing.

A middle aged Thai woman wearing a Thai-style sarong stood beside me at the crosswalk.

A car in the lane nearest the sidewalk slowed down and stopped for us . Thinking the coast was clear, the Thai lady began crossing the street . For some reason I choose not to follow her.

Without warning, a car, coming up from behind at a fast clip swerved around the stopped vehicle and plowed right into the woman as she crossed the street, sending her flying in the air head over heals about 15 feet straight up...and then down with a thud.

The driver of the vehicle and his passenger quickly got out and without a moments hesitation, grabbed the poor woman by her arms and legs, put her in the back seat of their car and drove quickly off.

I'm guessing, but I think they probably took her somewhere and dumped her. I don't think she could have survived such a crushing blow .

My Thai wife's cousins came to visit us in the US 2 months ago and one comment they made was that in Thailand people may appear to be kind and courteous to each other but when they are behind the wheel they exhibit a rude and vicious side . They were impressed that Americans would slow down and let pedestrians cross the street or give way to shoppers with carts in the mall parking lot.

Complicating the issue on these zebra crossings is that in Singapore, if you enter a zebra crossing, traffic must stop and let you pass. Tourists come into Bangkok, see a zebra crossing, and immediately assume the same is true.

As someone intimated before its the same in UK. Probably where Singapore got the idea from

[Momenthai]

The two places where I have to run the gauntlet most are on Silom Road near Soi Convent and on Suk Road near Soi 33 and in both places I've nearly been hit....it doesn't help that I've usually had a few beers so become very righteous about getting the drivers to stop. Incidents like this make me realise that my one man crusade to get the drivers of Bangkok to stop at pedestrian crossings is not just futile but life threatening!!

[Plus]

It's not only in Singapore, of course, and, as far as I remember, Singapore also uses pedestrian operated lights for crossings.

"at least 50% of road users just plough on through them - there is not enough law enforcement" - is there any place in Thailand where it might work? No matter how hard you try, they'll keep running red lights. They must rename the coutnry if it ever works.

A number of factors need to come into place to force people to stop - BIG red lights, BIG countdown displays, BIG people ready to cross, and cops regularly policing specific areas. Maybe they can use cameras to take pictures of cars running red. That might work.

Will people pay the penalties if caught? Not very likely. They need a system to collect traffic fines like that, too.

[Amethyst]

Few month ago it was an eldery women .. now tourist who's next??? Drivers here never seems not to stop when they sees any zebra crossing its sad....

During my first time in Bangkok i was almost hit by a slow moving car who refuse to stop...It stops only after i had to kick his licence plate till it breaks..

Edited July 19, 2006 by tytus

[stumonster]

using a pedestrian crossing in thailand is an aquired skill - you need to watch how thais manage it and you need to wait until there is a few people ready to cross. then you edge out and block one lane at a time so cars can continue to zoom past in front and behind.

the worst one I ever used regularly was in saphan mai - and no way would I try it during the evening , it would be asking to be hit by some drunken speeding idiot.

[Losangels]

How's this for offending drivers? As part of the punishment of the offense, make them cross the road during rush hour on a busy road for example Asoke intersection minimum of ten times each day for at least one month!

[Amethyst]

The drivers need to be educate ... most of them will tell you their brakes is faulty..

[Payboy]

Like Andyfletch I've taken to bashing taxis on the boot, sometimes they slow down to see what they've hit, more often they don't bother.

Why just taxis?

[Losangels]

Like Andyfletch I've taken to bashing taxis on the boot, sometimes they slow down to see what they've hit, more often they don't bother.

Why just taxis?

Because they are unlikely to be poo-yai