Two Tourists Run Over On Zebra Crossing

[teko]

How's this for offending drivers? As part of the punishment of the offense, make them cross the road during rush hour on a busy road for example Asoke intersection minimum of ten times each day for at least one month!

now ya talking

[marshbags]

For safety,

I seriously think the laying of pedestrian crossings should be banned.

They are a death trap here in Thailand and it would take years to re educate the masses not familiar with the concept.

In many other countries we all expect safety when using them in a responsible way.

Also drivers are well aware of there purpose and generally obey traffic laws.

Foreigners expect the same laws and respect to pedestrians here while sadly they are not.

This is just Thai culture and not T.bashing by the way.

As for traffic lights / pedestrian crossings.

How many are going to stop on amber or red, sadly again not many.

So the safest way is to not have either but to have pedestrian bridges built at busy sections to enable the fit and walking to at least get across safely.

In my humble opinion, of course.

Apologies if these points have been raised already and i,ve missed them, if so may i be allowed to reiterate these important observations.

marshbags

Edited July 21, 2006 by marshbags

[Sunderland]

Few month ago it was an eldery women .. now tourist who's next??? Drivers here never seems not to stop when they sees any zebra crossing its sad....

During my first time in Bangkok i was almost hit by a slow moving car who refuse to stop...It stops only after i had to kick his licence plate till it breaks..

So that's what ended your pro career!

[alaina]

Tractor driver Saichol Innork, 34, said he was not speeding and did not see the victims

Now this is just not possible. BMA busses only have two speeds, speeding or in the way of traffic.

[teej]

It is quite possible that a FEW car drivers obeying the law at zebra crossings is a lot more dangerous than having NOBODY obey the law at all (I'm sure we can all assume that to get EVERYBODY to obey is just unrealistic in Thailand)... the reasoning why situation in which the the few stop is more dangerous than the situation when no car stops comes in the form of MOTORCYCLES (who will never stop, regardless of fines, police, laws, jail, impound, death penalty, etc. etc... just forget it, it won't happen)...

Consider a zebra crossing where nobody obeys the laws and everybody knows it. Pedestrians here are thus more careful (if they don't want to die). But consider the case where a few "good" drivers obey the law and stop for pedestrians. This guarantees something bad is going to happen, because the pedestrian will begin to cross and not see the INEVITABLE motorcycle whizzing by the car and *whack*, game over. If that doesn't happen then it's the guy in the next lane that is pissed at the guy who stopped and therefore speeds into the next lane (or better yet, over the yellow line) to pass and again, *whack*.

...Or they guy who stops gets rear-ended by the guy behind him then the guy behind that guy gets pissed and passes flashing his brights over the yellow line while the motorcycle tries to squeeze between the crashed cars, the curb and the fruit cart... you get the point... in the end the "good" driver will probably be held at fault, after all this is Thailand...

I'm not saying that the status quo is decent by any means, but at least there is no false sense of security.

[BangnaBound]

Tractor driver Saichol Innork, 34, said he was not speeding and did not see the victims

Now this is just not possible. BMA busses only have two speeds, speeding or in the way of traffic.

The articles seems to indicate that Mr. Innork was driving a wheeled excavator, in which case it would have been impossible for him to speeding as the vehicle he was driving had a top speed of only 30 kph, and that is only in a straight line after a long acceleration. Given the vehicle’s poor visibility and equally poor braking performance (even when functioning according to spec), I think it is possible in this situation that a well trained operator in a well maintained excavator may not have been able to stop in time.

By time the couple walked in front of the excavator it was probably less than 25 meters away. If they had seen it, I would hope that instinct would have overridden the false sense of security that the ‘safety flags’ provided. So I’m going to have to assume they didn’t see it, and the flags would seem to be a factor in that.

This is a tragic accident, but still an accident. There are a lot of bad drivers around here, but I think Mr. Innork is the scapegoat for the bureaucrat that came up with the truly asinine idea of ''Safe Crossing With Flags''.

[whimsy]

Stopping at a red light pedestrian crossing in Chiang Mai last year very nearly got us flattened by a following car. These days I do as the locals do and go through pedestrian crossing lights, albeit slowly and carefully.

I was riding a mortorbike down the moat road near the Amora hotel. I saw a Thai family with 3 young kids waiting to cross and dutifully slowed and stopped at the red traffic light at the pedestrian crossing after checking my mirrors and seeing that the nearest car was over 50m behind us. Next we hear a screech of tires as a pickup hauled on the brakes and came to a halt about 1 m behind us. Immediately, my girlfirend is berating me for the stupidity of stopping for pedestrians. Only in Thailand would your girlfriend chew you out for obeying the road rules. After that experience I do see her point of view.

[stumonster]

driving had a top speed of only 30 kph,

until you see the machinery , do not assume - to the operator it is probably a carrera with a scoop.

[Netfan]

BMA driver is jailed for deaths of two tourists

BANGKOK: -- The driver of a Bangkok Metropolitan Administration (BMA) tractor that ran over and killed two foreign tourists was jailed yesterday pending further investigation.

Norwegian Hanne Karlsen and Briton Garry Thomas, both aged 28, were killed on Tuesday while using a pedestrian crossing on Larnluang Road in the capital.

Both had been holding pedestrian flags, which are used as a signal for motorists to stop, as they crossed the road.

Tractor driver Saichol Innork, 34, said he was not speeding and did not see the victims. He has been charged with reckless driving that caused death.

Major Akkarapol Chaem-choy of Nang Lerng Police Station took Saichol into custody and said that police would call witnesses and gather enough evidence for public prosecutors to consider within one month.

The BMA has offered its condolences to the victims' families and will pay compensation, city clerk Khunying Nathanon Thavisin said.

The families had already been contacted by their respective embassies.

The official sum for compensation in such cases is up to Bt1 million, but if the families request a higher amount the city will find the funds, Nathanon said.

She said traffic laws would be more strictly enforced, and the pedestrian-flags project would be reviewed and made more effective.

The BMA requested that Saichol, who is employed by the Public Works Department, be granted bail because he did not flee the scene.

Its initial investigation found that Saichol's view had been obstructed by the vehicle's crane, Nathanon said.

Deputy BMA spokesman, Thanom Onketpol, said Saichol would be disciplined and perhaps fired.

An official at the BMA Traffic and Transport Department said the pedestrian-flags project was not a BMA initiative but was set up by community and district leaders.

Traffic police are overworked during rush hours and are unable to provide enough assistance to pedestrians, said the official who asked not to be named.

The BMA has 34 pedestrian crossings with signs that count down the time it will take for the lights to change, 50 with normal traffic lights and a further 600 with flashing yellow lights, the official said.

--The Nation 2006-07-20

Nowhere in this article does anyone accept any responsibility. The driver "didnt see", the BMA blames the driver- not the vehicle with bald tires, the flag idea is someone else's, traffic police are overworked.....nothing here is going to change until thais learn something about taking responsibility for their actions. it didnt take all that long in the states to change peoples perceptions about drunk driving, wearing mc helmets, even littering. why? because people were made to be accountable for their actions. people can bitch about frivilous lawsuits, but some of the not so frivilous ones have made life a little safer. hopefully the families of these two will demand a lot more than 1M baht each. Maybe 1B baht each would make someone take notice.

[Steely Dan]

BMA driver is jailed for deaths of two tourists

BANGKOK: -- The driver of a Bangkok Metropolitan Administration (BMA) tractor that ran over and killed two foreign tourists was jailed yesterday pending further investigation.

Norwegian Hanne Karlsen and Briton Garry Thomas, both aged 28, were killed on Tuesday while using a pedestrian crossing on Larnluang Road in the capital.

Both had been holding pedestrian flags, which are used as a signal for motorists to stop, as they crossed the road.

Tractor driver Saichol Innork, 34, said he was not speeding and did not see the victims. He has been charged with reckless driving that caused death.

Major Akkarapol Chaem-choy of Nang Lerng Police Station took Saichol into custody and said that police would call witnesses and gather enough evidence for public prosecutors to consider within one month.

The BMA has offered its condolences to the victims' families and will pay compensation, city clerk Khunying Nathanon Thavisin said.

The families had already been contacted by their respective embassies.

The official sum for compensation in such cases is up to Bt1 million, but if the families request a higher amount the city will find the funds, Nathanon said.

She said traffic laws would be more strictly enforced, and the pedestrian-flags project would be reviewed and made more effective.

The BMA requested that Saichol, who is employed by the Public Works Department, be granted bail because he did not flee the scene.

Its initial investigation found that Saichol's view had been obstructed by the vehicle's crane, Nathanon said.

Deputy BMA spokesman, Thanom Onketpol, said Saichol would be disciplined and perhaps fired.

An official at the BMA Traffic and Transport Department said the pedestrian-flags project was not a BMA initiative but was set up by community and district leaders.

Traffic police are overworked during rush hours and are unable to provide enough assistance to pedestrians, said the official who asked not to be named.

The BMA has 34 pedestrian crossings with signs that count down the time it will take for the lights to change, 50 with normal traffic lights and a further 600 with flashing yellow lights, the official said.

--The Nation 2006-07-20

Nowhere in this article does anyone accept any responsibility. The driver "didnt see", the BMA blames the driver- not the vehicle with bald tires, the flag idea is someone else's, traffic police are overworked.....nothing here is going to change until thais learn something about taking responsibility for their actions. it didnt take all that long in the states to change peoples perceptions about drunk driving, wearing mc helmets, even littering. why? because people were made to be accountable for their actions. people can bitch about frivilous lawsuits, but some of the not so frivilous ones have made life a little safer. hopefully the families of these two will demand a lot more than 1M baht each. Maybe 1B baht each would make someone take notice.

Ah accountability, does the word actually exist in Thai? Indeed has anyone seen a Thai policeman fining anybody for failing to stop at a pedestrian crossing? I know the situation is tragic, but I had to laugh the other month when it look me ages to elicit from my girlfriend (who's English is excellent) what the Thai word for pedestrian was.

[Kerryd]

..............what the Thai word for pedestrian was.

เบ้า

(bpao)

(also known as "target" !)

[PeaceBlondie]

My condolences to the families of the dead farang.

What to say? I've been roundly accused lately for saying negative things about Thailand and Thai people. Well, let's see what I can say positive. Uhh, well, erm...this is the wild, wild southeast, and we came here to escape the overregulated "anal-retentive" home country, and we came here, not to Singapore, land of no chewing gum.

Uhh, well, Thais are fun-loving sanuk people who don't fear death; something about their Buddhism or their animism or reincarnation; if you've got a thousand lives, so what if one of them ends a bit soon?

Gosh, it's good exercise to sprint across a street like Silom during rush hour, dodging and weaving like a footballer; keeps the adrenalin pumping.

Oh, and it took more than a generation in the States to get people to wear seat belts. Colonel Stapp's rocket sled was in the early 1950's; the seat belt was invented by the Wright brothers and Lt. Foulois around 1910. The States still don't agree about making helmet use mandatory.

You've just got to love Thailand and the gracious Thai drivers, whose respect for humanity is....well...uhh, erm, beatific.

"Oh, Mr. Khun Poon-yai, is that your new BMW 760iL that my shoe just kicked? Well, sir, I was taught to behave as an English gentleman on his best behavior, but hey, Somchai, this is Thailand!! Mai bpen rai, sawadee, krhap khun crap! Smile!"

[Donz]

Did they look at traffic while crossing the road??

I mean even in sydney when I cross the road I ALWAYS look to see if any cars are comming, there are many deaths here also on crossings, so you should never just cross at a crossing expecting the cars to stop, because the chances are you may get hit.

Its sad for the victims, RIP

[marshbags]

Did they look at traffic while crossing the road??

I mean even in sydney when I cross the road I ALWAYS look to see if any cars are comming, there are many deaths here also on crossings, so you should never just cross at a crossing expecting the cars to stop, because the chances are you may get hit.

Its sad for the victims, RIP

Under normal conditions i,d agree but and most of us do this..................................but

The problem here is possibly a little different to the standard look right, left, then right again before crossing. ( U.K. anyway ) manouvers we are all taught from childhood.

The way traffic moves here and disobeys standard traffic laws make it very difficult to apply common sense.

There is first of all the driving the wrong way against the flow of traffic

Add to this the speed with which traffic moves, the lack of acknowledging what caution means and being aware of a possible dangerous / situation ahead.

They travel that fast that sometimes by the time you,ve checked for safety there is yet another no brainer on top of you who doesn,t give a sod about the fact that someone is about to cross and doesn,t even bother to slow down in anticipation of there actions.

How many times have we got off a bus or out of a taxi and had the luckiest of chances, being missed by a m.bike rider flying down the side of whatever, on the inside and knowing full well passengers are about to step off the vehicle on the supposedly safe side of it.

( pavement side ) and not even slowing down even though an idiot should know passengers are about to get off.

Even with eyes in every orifice the odds would still be stacked against you, i,m sad to say.

When there,s a possible hazard, surely slowing down is the normal thing to do.

Re education and heavy penalties need to be applied, and not just monetary, big time.

The carnage is truly sickening and so many innocent lives lost, how distressing it all is.

In this case, the families of the victims first of all then with all people of a caring nature, which applies to most of us i,m sure.

marshbags

Edited July 24, 2006 by marshbags

[Donz]

yes education and heavy penalties would do them a world of good IMO