Working in Norway (short term)

[mrlegend123]

Hi,

I have been married for fours years to a Thai women and have two children with her. They are aged 3 and 1. We have lived in Thailand and the UK. With the UK my wife and family have been coming for 6 months at a time on a holiday visa (two holiday visas have been given to date). This was because I didn't have the financial requirement for a spouse visa. Now I work for an oil company on 40k a year and would like to sponser my wife for a spouse visa. Both my children have both passports. But I have been told by my company that I will be put into a placement of around 8 months with a separate contract in Norway and paying Norwegian tax. Then return afterwards and carry on working for the oil company in Aberdeen. Will this effect my option to sponser my wife for a spouse visa to live in the UK. We have been waiting for years to get to this stage. I hope this is not the case. Please advise.

Best regards,

Chris

[Richard W]

Arguably, you've hit the jackpot. Norway is in the EEA, so free movement of labour provisions mean you can take your wife and children with you to Norway. Unless the UK government has some loophole by Norway being in the EEA and not the EU, when your job moves to the UK, you can move them to England on a Family Permit because you've been exercising your treaty rights abroad and therefore have all the rights of a Frenchman. You even avoid the hefty charges of a settlement visa, further leave to remain, and settlement.

[Basil B]

As Richard puts it possibly you have hit the jackpot "by virtue of Article 28 of the EEA Agreement" which does include Norway even though not a full member of the EU.

The following maybe an interesting read: https://blogs.kent.ac.uk/eu-rights-clinic/2013/06/26/the-surinder-singh-route-understanding-the-law/

Just a point, not sure how long you have to work in Norway before you can get a Norwegian visa for you wife.

Edited September 23, 2014 by Basil B

[mrlegend123]

This is getting more and more unpredictable as further on I read. The plan was to get 6 month bank statements and apply for the spouse visa to the UK. But because I will be probably be paid for 6-8 months in Norway via NOK. Can I translate the bank statements and they will accept the financial requirement with uk and Norwegian bank statements. The second idea was due to the reply from 'Richard W', however I have been told maybe you need a permanent visa for Norway then apply for another visa for the uk. Then I was told that it was a ball-ache from one friend whose wife had a Schengen visa from Spain and he lived a worked in Norway then went to the uk and worked later on. So if the Norway route was easy to understand and direct I would go for it. But because its unpredictable and my wife is Thai there are so many steps involved I think it would be better to go through the uk way now.

Regards,

Chris

[Richard W]

... however I have been told maybe you need a permanent visa for Norway then apply for another visa for the uk.

Tosh! To quote Directive2004/38/EC:

Article 6

Right of residence for up to three months

1. Union citizens shall have the right of residence on the territory of another Member State for a period of up to three months without any conditions or any formalities other than the requirement to hold a valid identity card or passport.

2. The provisions of paragraph 1 shall also apply to family members in possession of a valid passport who are not nationals of a Member State, accompanying or joining the Union citizen.

In principle your whole family would move to Norway together. You might want to move first to sort out accommodation, though you don't want to lose your EU rights by not being in another EEA country long enough before your wife applies for a family permit for the move from Norway to the UK.

Then I was told that it was a ball-ache from one friend whose wife had a Schengen visa from Spain and he lived a worked in Norway then went to the uk and worked later on.

It's difficult to comment without facts or a clear statement of the problems. I recommend that you get your wife the appropriate visas that Norway and the UK may demand for families of EU nationals. Your children are British, so will move as easily as you do. It's not going to be worse than applying for a UK settlement visa.

I don't know where you'll be working in Norway. A quick Google search turns up a Thai temple outside Bergen, which looks promising, even though I only know of one Norwegian Thai on Thaivisa, namely Mole.

[7by7]

The EU freedom of movement rights apply equally to EEA countries as well.

This means that providing you are exercising an economic treaty right, which you will be as you will be working, then your wife can move to Norway with you.

The appropriate visa should be easy to obtain and free.

Different EEA states have different procedures for dealing with applications; but the rules are the same for all. This is how the UK deals with such applications, but you should contact the Norwegian embassy to find out their procedure.

Normally, these rights do not extend to the EEA state of which the EEA national is a citizen. However, if you have been living in another EEA state and your wife has been living there with you, then you can use these rules to move to the UK with her.

Again, as she will be applying under the EEA rules, the visa should be issued with the minimum of delay and will be free.

This is known as the Surinder Singh route*, after a case in the ECJ which makes it possible.

As she will be applying under the EEA regulations rather than the UK immigration rules then the financial and language requirements will not apply.

*Note that following a recent judgement in the ECJ this UKVI document is now technically out of date. Like many other EEA states the UK has yet to implement the changes ordered by the court; but those changes will make it easier, not harder.

[mrlegend123]

My wife and children are in Thailand at the moment. Which visa would see need to enter Norway.

[7by7]

As said

Different EEA states have different procedures for dealing with applications; but the rules are the same for all. This is how the UK deals with such applications, but you should contact the Norwegian embassy to find out their procedure.

UBC II Building, 18th floor
591 Sukhumvit Road, Soi 33
Bangkok 10110, Thailand

Tel: +66 (0)2204 6500
Fax: +66 (0)2262 0218
E-mail: [email protected]

See also Visas and Residence Permits, but I can't find any reference to EEA rights there.

BTW, assuming your children are British and hold British passports, they wont need visas to enter or live in Norway; just as you don't.

Edited September 25, 2014 by 7by7

[mrlegend123]

In both senerios how long will it take for my wife to get a British Passport.

Best regards,

Chris

[Richard W]

In both senerios how long will it take for my wife to get a British Passport.

Speaking from memory, starting from entry to the UK, it's 5 years to indefinite leave to remain (ILR) (non-EU route) and 5 years to permanent residence (EEA route), so nominally no difference. The final step of the EU route might be progressed quicker and might even be automatic. I believe some criminal convictions that would delay or derail the non-EU route would not affect the EEA route. Traffic offences are common hazards on the non-EU route - you can't get ILR within 24 months of a non-fixed penalty notice fine. Having got ILR or permanent residence, she will then be able to apply for naturalisation and then for a British passport.

[nzvic]

Norway has great welfare/pension system I understand. A NZ librarian worked there for only ten yrs and despite getting a kiwi superannuation, she was offered Norwegian pension which works out much higher...so she's shifted to their's. Added bonus if getting their high wages.

[7by7]

In both senerios how long will it take for my wife to get a British Passport.

Best regards,

Chris

The spouse or civil partner of a British citizen can apply for naturalisation once they have lived in the UK for at least three years and hold Indefinite Leave to Remain in the UK; which can only be applied for by those who enter the UK under the UK immigration rules.

As ILR takes 5 years to obtain, effectively your wife would have to live in the UK for at least this time.

For all others they need to have lived in the UK for at least 5 years and held ILR, or if entering under the EEA route Permanent Residence which also takes 5 years residence, for at least 1 year. So effectively 6 years residence.

However, if your wife enters using the EEA route rather than the UK immigration rules route she is still the spouse of a British citizen. Therefore, once she has PR she does not have to wait another year before she can apply for naturalisation but can do so immediately.

Provided she meets the residency and other requirements, of course.

One of which will be Knowledge of Life and Language in the UK. She wont need this for PR under the EEA route, but will need it for naturalisation.

See British citizenship basics for more details.

[mrlegend123]

Just one last question with the senerio to the UK route. If I have 2 months british bank statements with wage slips. Then I go to Norway for 6 months. I send my wife 4-5 month bank statement with wage slips from Norway (so in Norwegian) + 2 months british ones. Will I have to translate then to English? Will this be acceptable? I am hoping to apply for the visa for my wife before I go back to the UK reducing the amount of time we have to wait before settleing into the UK together.

[mrlegend123]

Sorry not the last question. I have just read up on the SS way and would like to ask when my wife comes to meet me in Norway. Does she need a residence visa or a schengen visa? How long does she have to stay in Norway for to apply for the EEA family permit? When I have been looking through the internet different people say different things. The schengen visa lasts for 3 months but can she stay for 6?

[Richard W]

I have just read up on the SS way and would like to ask when my wife comes to meet me in Norway. Does she need a residence visa or a schengen visa? How long does she have to stay in Norway for to apply for the EEA family permit? When I have been looking through the internet different people say different things. The schengen visa lasts for 3 months but can she stay for 6?

Within 3 months of arrival, each one of you needs to register under the registration scheme for EU/EEA nationals. You will then be able to stay for the full 8 months the job lasts. (I'm not sure about the rules about the time between jobs, but it's probably covered by the time one is allowed for finding another job.) I expect you will be able to register together.

[7by7]

A recent ECJ ruling says that a couple must have lived in the other EEA state for at least 3 months in order to benefit from Surinder Singh.

The UK has not yet changed it's regulations on this; which currently say that the couple must have "moved the centre of their life to the other EEA state."

But, to be sure, I'd go for three months minimum.

See Surinder Singh immigration route

[Donutz]

Just one last question with the senerio to the UK route. If I have 2 months british bank statements with wage slips. Then I go to Norway for 6 months. I send my wife 4-5 month bank statement with wage slips from Norway (so in Norwegian) + 2 months british ones. Will I have to translate then to English? Will this be acceptable? I am hoping to apply for the visa for my wife before I go back to the UK reducing the amount of time we have to wait before settleing into the UK together.

I don't know how Norway processes immigration (D visa) but either route should work since you will be exercising your freedom of movement rights under 2004/38/EC. Applying now and entering on a type D (entry with intend to settle) visa or a regular type C visa (short stay and apply for residency).

During the first 3 months you have the right to stay there, so they cannot ask proof of funds etc. For long stay there are various options such as an income or being self sufficient, anything works as long as you are not an "unreasonable burden" for the Norwegian state. For details check the EU websites on travel/working in other EU/EEA states and/or Norwegian sources.

[7by7]

A recent ECJ ruling says that a couple must have lived in the other EEA state for at least 3 months in order to benefit from Surinder Singh.

The UK has not yet changed it's regulations on this; which currently say that the couple must have "moved the centre of their life to the other EEA state."

But, to be sure, I'd go for three months minimum.

See Surinder Singh immigration route

See also EU to investigate UK interpretation of Surinder Singh

Please ignore the stupid posts from two members more interested in baiting me than in this important development.

[mrlegend123]

If my wfie comes on a Schengen visa for 3 months. Then apply for the EEA permit. She will have to go home by then as she can't stay any longer. Plus trying to get a residence permit for Norway will take 8 months or more. How can be have a chance to have time for the EEA permit to come back while we are all in Norway.

[mrlegend123]

I will be in Norway working for 6-7 months while my wife and children will come in the middle of that when it is most convenient. Realistically, how do we do it?

[Richard W]

If my wfie comes on a Schengen visa for 3 months. Then apply for the EEA permit. She will have to go home by then as she can't stay any longer.

You apply as soon as you can; you do not wait three months. She and your child can then stay at least as long as you are working in Norway.

Plus trying to get a residence permit for Norway will take 8 months or more.

What is your source for this? Is this for the residence permit of an EU family member, or for residence permit of a member of a family of a Norwegian? The government is required to issue residence permits within 6 months of application.

How can be have a chance to have time for the EEA permit to come back while we are all in Norway.

Should you still be waiting for the Norwegian permit, you apply for the family permit to go to the UK regardless. I'd be surprised if you didn't have a receipt for the application for the Norwegian residence card. Use this as part of your evidence that you are exercising your 'treaty rights' under the EEA freedom of movement of labour provisions.

Did you read the English language page on the Norwegian website I linked to?

Edited September 29, 2014 by Richard W

[mrlegend123]

http://www.udi.no/en/want-to-apply/the-registration-scheme-for-eueea-nationals/?c=gbr#Employee-1 Rights and obligations

• You can change jobs and you can have one or more employers.
• You can bring your family to Norway. They must also register.
• After five years in Norway, you can be granted permanent right of residence.

So I will apply for this, how long will it take to recieve and allow my family to come to Norway. How long can they stay in Norway.' You can bring your family' - under what visa. I'm sorry for repeating myself but I just don't understand as its all new to me. So if my family come for two months then I apply will this make any difference for the family permit to the UK? So my wife can come on the Schegen Visa and we apply in 2 months? Different answer from 7by7 'a couple must have lived in the other EEA state for at least 3 months in order to benefit from Surinder Singh' and Richard W 'You apply as soon as you can; you do not wait three months. She and your child can then stay at least as long as you are working in Norway'.

Thanks for everyones help again.

Best regards,

[Richard W]

So I will apply for this, how long will it take to recieve and allow my family to come to Norway.

I don't believe that in practice you need to get yourself a residence permit to bring your family to Norway. In law you can all arrive together.

How long can they stay in Norway.' You can bring your family' - under what visa.

I suspect it's the short stay 'Class C' visa.

I'm sorry for repeating myself but I just don't understand as its all new to me. So if my family come for two months then I apply will this make any difference for the family permit to the UK? So my wife can come on the Schegen Visa and we apply in 2 months? Different answer from 7by7 'a couple must have lived in the other EEA state for at least 3 months in order to benefit from Surinder Singh' and Richard W 'You apply as soon as you can; you do not wait three months. She and your child can then stay at least as long as you are working in Norway'.

I don't see any contradiction between myself and 7b7 in this matter. He says you and your family should live in Norway for at least 3 months before applying for a family permit to the UK; I recommend at least 6 months to be on the safe side. I am presuming that the sooner you are together in Norway the better simply for private reasons. (On the other hand, you might be considering saving more money be keeping your family in Thailand.) I said you apply as soon as you can for Norwegian residence permits, and definitely within 3 months of arrival. 7by7 did not address the details of your stay in Norway. I am addressing them only reluctantly, for I have no personal experience and we must avoid giving bad advice.

[7by7]

Indeed, I know nothing of how Norway deals with EEA freedom of movement when it comes to the non EEA national family members of an EEA national.

As I said before.

Different EEA states have different procedures for dealing with applications; but the rules are the same for all. This is how the UK deals with such applications, but you should contact the Norwegian embassy to find out their procedure