Circuit breakers

[Cyrus123]

I also just found out about wire caps, what would you guys prefer inside the box, those white connectors or some wire caps?

[Forkinhades]

I like wagos

[Forkinhades]

https://www.wagobox.com/shop/wago-222-lever-clamp-electrical-connectors/wago-222-413-20pcs-html.html

[Cyrus123]

As promised a picture with the hood of, I just started and haven't replaced the 16A for a 25A yet but cable wise it'll all be the same as now.

[Crossy]

It's a lot better than the "before" images

You need to ensure that there's no visible copper on those choc-blocs (see my earlier post on the subject), like Forky I like Wago terminals.

Ditto for the wires in the neutral block (just for neatness in this case).

Nice to see the white sleeve on the neutral interconnect Assuming those white wires on the earth bar are actually earths, a bit of green sleeving wouldn't go amiss.

[Cyrus123]

Thanx Crossy

I have been pulling of the cables for the shower heater, apart for the tiny nails clips for holding the cable they seem to have been glued to the concrete with some pink stuff (kind of looks like primer for plastering). Do you know what it is? Seems like a better idea than just the nails for a 4mm cable.

[Crossy]

Thanx Crossy

I have been pulling of the cables for the shower heater, apart for the tiny nails clips for holding the cable they seem to have been glued to the concrete with some pink stuff (kind of looks like primer for plastering). Do you know what it is? Seems like a better idea than just the nails for a 4mm cable.

No idea what the pink stuff is, it could even be paint from an earlier decorating job.

Those clips are pretty strong on their own (don't put them too far apart), assuming you can get them in without bashing your fingers (I use needle nose pliers to hold the pin whilst getting it started).

[Cyrus123]

I haven't seen any wago's around here but they seem handy.

No pink stuff either, I went with the biggest size alloid clips (they need to hold a 4mm, 2,5mm and 1.5mm cable together). They have two nails each so that should be strong enough!

Hehe and gonna get me some needle pliers indeed

Thanx!

Edited September 29, 2014 by Cyrus123

[wayned]

"assuming you can get them in without bashing your fingers (I use needle nose pliers to hold the pin whilst getting it started)".

I use the PVC wire channels wherever I can. I don't rely on the double sided tape to hold them. I secure them with screws also. They're great if you need to made changes or additions after installation. Po off the cover make the changes/additions and pop the cover back on.

[bankruatsteve]

"assuming you can get them in without bashing your fingers (I use needle nose pliers to hold the pin whilst getting it started)".

I use the PVC wire channels wherever I can. I don't rely on the double sided tape to hold them. I secure them with screws also. They're great if you need to made changes or additions after installation. Po off the cover make the changes/additions and pop the cover back on.

I use those too. The tape never seems to last so I paint them same color as the under and make sure to put extra in the crack (paint can be an excellent glue). Several years and still looking good.

[roytheoldboy]

Picture in case I choose the wrong breakers for the drawing and confuse someone, this is what's up:

Looks well Fked up in my opinion......a bit scarry.I've seen similar last year when I did an upgrade to the mother in laws.On first look it would appear that white is the neutral and black is the live.Or maybe you have like the american system with a high and a low leg (both live phases-120v to earth on each phase and 220v between them black and white which could be why both lines are being broken thru mcbs.(the zero volts portion of the circuit being derived from actual ground/earth..So the first thing I would do is get yourself a multimeter.Then I would actually physically trace the green wire to see if it goes to an earth electrode which is bashed into the ground.This needs to be a fairly substantial piece of metal.I have seen Thais use a 4 inch nail poked into lightly packed sand...scarry again. So when you have established that you do infact have an earth you can test with all circuit breakers off,test between earth and black,earth and white,and between black and white. This should give you an indication of what is what.

I'd to go with home pros extortionate prices last year also when I did that upgrade.Any of the smaller hardware shops in our village and surrounds didn't even stock any modular circuit breakers..just big screw in fuse things' from the arc'.In uk Screwfix have a double pole rcd 63amp retailing for £17(850baht).I dont know how they get away with charging such high prices for rcds.

[bankruatsteve]

Looks well Fked up in my opinion......a bit scarry.I've seen similar last year when I did an upgrade to the mother in laws.On first look it would appear that white is the neutral and black is the live.Or maybe you have like the american system with a high and a low leg (both live phases-120v to earth on each phase and 220v between them black and white which could be why both lines are being broken thru mcbs.(the zero volts portion of the circuit being derived from actual ground/earth..So the first thing I would do is get yourself a multimeter.Then I would actually physically trace the green wire to see if it goes to an earth electrode which is bashed into the ground.This needs to be a fairly substantial piece of metal.I have seen Thais use a 4 inch nail poked into lightly packed sand...scarry again. So when you have established that you do infact have an earth you can test with all circuit breakers off,test between earth and black,earth and white,and between black and white. This should give you an indication of what is what.

I'd to go with home pros extortionate prices last year also when I did that upgrade.Any of the smaller hardware shops in our village and surrounds didn't even stock any modular circuit breakers..just big screw in fuse things' from the arc'.In uk Screwfix have a double pole rcd 63amp retailing for £17(850baht).I dont know how they get away with charging such high prices for rcds.

Congratulations. You read the OP, apparently ignoring the 3 pages of responses following, and give your advice. Jeez.

[Cyrus123]

It seems like I'm going to be redoing a whole lot of wiring... What wire should I take for the ceiling lamps? The ones running from behind my outlets on 20A breakers.

If 2.5mm is the better choice I'd rather use that.

[yankee99]

i run my house on 16&10 amp breakers. Air, fridge, water heater and a lot more. All on 2.5sqm which i don't believe is rated for more then 16 amps but not sure. Remember you want the breaker to go before the wire.

[bankruatsteve]

Lighting circuits are usually put on 10a breaker with 1.5mm2 cable. You really don't have any issues with what you have now - except that it's not usually done that way in a proper installation.

Edited September 30, 2014 by bankruatsteve

[Crossy]

As noted previously, what he has now is fine and is 1,000,000 times safer than the original.

Provided he hasn't got any 3,000 Watt lights the 1.5 will be fine, yes even on a 20A breaker, it's not going to be overloaded and if a short develops the 20A will open long before the cable even gets warm.

It's not necessarily how we would do it in our home countries, but that doesn't mean it's wrong or unsafe.

[Cyrus123]

So could someone please try to explain to me how this works with the 25A RCD because I really don't get it.

What does the 25 Amps stand for?

Shower heater 3500w

Cooker 1300w

PC 500w

Fans 100w

Fridge 100w

Lights 100w

= 5600w / 220v = 25,45 Amps

My regular use right now already exceeds 25A yet is doesn't trip.

In the future there might be a 900w aircon, a 4500w shower heater, a 100w pump, adding another 11 amps.

But it seems the 25Amps on the RCD has nothing to do with this, what does it mean?

It's all very confusing!

Also I just found out that the earthing wire comming into my condo isn't 10mm like the hot and neutral wire but only 5mm thick. With the 5/15A meter would it be possible at all to take a 4500w shower heater? Would I need a 40A RCD? Is a 40A RCD even allowed on a 5mm earthing cable?

Edited October 1, 2014 by Cyrus123

[Crossy]

Your 25A breaker won't trip at 25.5A, ever.

Assuming it's a C curve (most are in Thailand) it will carry a 50% overload (38A) for 2 minutes or so before the thermal element thinks about opening, even at a 10x overload it will take 2 seconds to open.

You really need to measure the actual current draw if you're worried, but I doubt you're anywhere near the 25A in reality.

A 4500 Watt heater will pull about 20A, so no issue there, if it's running at the same time as your aircon and your kettle it may trip the incomer, but on a 5/15 meter you can't go bigger.

EDIT Do note that whilst 20A is overloading your meter (max 15A) these are incredibly robust devices and will withstand a 100% overload indefinitely, the accuracy falls off mind (and you can guarantee they don't read low).

[Cyrus123]

Thanx Crossy, I was actually going to buy a 5000 or 6000w heater with a 100w pump to increase shower pressure. Glad we had this conversation first because I don't think it's a good idea.

Maybe a new 3500w heater will do the trick. My hotel had good pressure with a 3500w heater while the heater I have in my condo now has difficulties heating low pressure. Perhaps it's just not a very good/old model. Will have to try out a new one.

Edited October 1, 2014 by Cyrus123

[bankruatsteve]

If you do go with larger heater and A/C and your breaker starts tripping, it will be time to petition for a larger meter (15/45) and go to 40a main breaker.

Do not install a pump unless you have reservoir (water tank) to draw from. You can't just hook into the water supply.

Does the light come on and stay on with your shower unit? If it can't heat low pressure then, yeah - it's probably time for a new one.

[Crossy]

The prevalence of 3,500 Watt heaters here is, at least in part, due to the 'standard' Thai supply being 5/15.

3500watts is about 16A @ 220V another 0.5 Amp or so for a pump won't break the power bank for that baby supply.

[Cyrus123]

I've made a ceiling lighting circuit on 3x1.5mm with a 6Amp MCB and now I also want a Main Switch since that's regulation back home.

Now the problem is of course I don't know what size.

I have:

5/15A Meter with 2x10mm cable and 5mm earthing to my condo.

1x 25A RCD

3x 20A MCB

1x 6A MCB

They have Main Switches in 20, 32, 40, 63 and 100 Amps. Which one do I take?

Edited October 3, 2014 by Cyrus123

[Crossy]

I've made a ceiling lighting circuit on 3x1.5mm with a 6Amp MCB and now I also want a Main Switch since that's regulation back home.

Now the problem is of course I don't know what size.

I have:

1x 25A RCD

3x 20A MCB

1x 6A MCB

They have Main Switches in 20, 32, 40, 63 and 100 Amps. Which one do I take?

In the UK your RCD would act as the main switch (it's double pole and acceptable as supply isolation), but if you want to add one for belt and braces go with the 32A (the 20A may restrict your usage too much).

[Cyrus123]

Thanx Crossy.

I'm not sure if I should take a bigger box. I don't have space for the main switch unless I remove one MCB.

I'd end up with a 20A MCB for the bathroom, a 6A MCB for all the ceiling lights and a 20A MCB for 5 outlets.

I think that would be up to regulations but no more space to add who knows what in the future...

[Cyrus123]

the 5/15a on the meter, what does it mean? Is 15 the maximum amount of Amps you may draw from it? So technically I should have a 15/45a installed?

[bankruatsteve]

Well... Like Crossy said, your 25a RCBO is a main switch. If you really want a cut-off in front of your box, then do that as a separate unit - it wouldn't need to be a circuit breaker or fused but it should be double pole (DPST).

[Crossy]

the 5/15a on the meter, what does it mean? Is 15 the maximum amount of Amps you may draw from it? So technically I should have a 15/45a installed?

This is technically correct, 15A is the maximum load, but meters are very robust, they will withstand a 100% overload forever, it's common practice in Thailand to fuse a 5/15 at 25-30A (or even more), they don't explode!

Upping to a 15/45 will need new incoming cables and in your small place isn't really necessary.

In reality your load will never get near even 25A unless you add a large water heater.

What you have now is many times safer than the original, as you're in a rental I would leave it as it is.

[Cyrus123]

No my realistic maximum load right now is about 18Amps.

However I used to have another room in the same building where I installed a 100w pump with 8000w shower heater... It was a heavenly shower but not very safe. Ahum the 1.5mm cable got quite hot.

If I upgrade the meter to 15/45a what size cable should I ask for?

Edited October 3, 2014 by Cyrus123

[Crossy]

PEA will expect you to have 16mm² incoming cable for a 15/45.

If you are paying the condo for power rather than direct to MEA/PEA they will probably let you get away with 10mm² on a 50A incomer.

How far from the meter to your room?

Have you actually measured your current consumption?

[bankruatsteve]

The cable specification will probably come from your PEA - or whoever supplies power. You have 10mm2 Cu already, right? Seems like that would be good already for 40 amp. Anyway... most likely they will tell you.