Key witness says foreigner kills British tourists

[JOC]

Wonder if it's a coincidence, that something like a day ago the "furious" local Thais were posting pictures of Sean in crossdressing-party at the beach and saying "why did you destroy our island", and making fun of him. The next day police announces they are looking for a "foreigner" despite Asian DNA found on Hannah. Sure the DNA could be another kind of Asian than Thai, but I'm almost predicting the announcement from police chief soon saying "We've now found the foreign guilty, it's Sean". Perhaps they are leaning towards this under pressure of the locals as well as the mafia? Or maybe not. The next announcement of this soap opera will be interesting (sarcastically speaking, I truly hope they get the right suspects and justice for the dead and their families, since these murders have been truly sickening)...

Talking about Sean. For a guy like him, he has been surprisingly quiet after leaving (?) Thailand. No journalist has managed (to my knowledge) to trace him, the hottest person in this investigation. Strange!

Has anyone considered, that he still might be in Thailand. In "protective" custody?? Maybe the police aren't so stupid afterall?

But again, like everyone here, I am just guessing.

Enough for today. Goodnight!

[Wilsonandson]

So the THIRD man was a farang..?

so.......the witness is better proof than the alleged DNA tests which showed asian origin of attackers? Unless of course my interpretation of yet another story is wrong.....

No a Mon family member on the run in Bkk (attending University).

[animatic]

70% match they have said, OK.

The question is, which 70%?

And that question might be used by some to muddy the waters. For a time that might work.

When trying to look for specific forensic matches, they won't be looking for the generic everybody on earth parts for matches,

but the ones that show familial connections, and yes the guys looking at DNA should know where to look and where not to bother.

Remember it's the big hats making the speeches, not the little guys who do the tech work.

This isn't how it works.

A DNA profiling test is designed to look for matches. They do not decide which bits to look at based on the family, the test measures the same things in every subject. It has to .

The point is to be able to say: this DNA comes from this person, with a less than one million to one possibility of a mistake. It is designed to be an identification method, but one which has 100% certainty.

To do this all DNA profiles look at 13 locations in each person's DNA. These are always the same places, and they are places that have (to simplify) between 1 and 20 repeats in each location. As each location is present twice (once on each pair of chromosomes) there are two repeat numbers for each location. So if we call each location A, B, C to M (13 locations) , each with 2 possible numbers, a DNA profile looks like this:

A (1,20): B (3, 7) :C (4, 1): D (12 17): E (20,1):F (3,9): G (5,11): H (6,20): I (2,2): J (3,19): K (8,9): L(6,16): M (2,11)

Because each of the numbers can be any value from 1 to 20 (I'm simplifying but the principle is true) the number of possible variations of this profile you can get is literally trillions. So if you test DNA left on the victim, and the suspect and they both have this profile, it identifies the suspect incontrovertibly, because there are so many different possible combinations, it is impossible to get the same one from two different people by chance. It would be like winning the lottery twice in a row.

Now, because a child gets exactly half of its chromosomes from the mother and half from the father, it is easy to tell if any suspect's DNA is from the child of a person from whom you have taken another DNA sample. Because in this case half the numbers will be the same. For half the numbers to be identical simply by chance would still be impossible for unrelated samples, because there are literally billions of possible combinations. So if you found a DNA profile like this:

A (1,3): B (3, 15) :C (4, 2): D (12 ,4): E (20,19):F (3,14): G (5,1): H (6,16): I (2,9): J (3,3): K (8,11): L(6,5): M (2,10)

Here at thirteen different places in this DNA one of the numbers is the same as the first profile, when each could have any possible value from 1 to 20 in the general population. This identifies this DNA as from a child of the first person, with no possible doubt.

The DNA profiling tests performed on all samples are the same, and do not involve "deciding" what to look at.

You miss read what I said, or at least my intent. You basically made my point in exquisite detail lost on all but a few here. The picture changes somewhat when looking at familial connections across generations and with cousins etc. and that is one the data sets they are in need of in this investigation. I broke all that down into some thing digestible for most who have been not grasping the picture well. Edited September 27, 2014 by animatic

[mango66]

And the "key witness" didn't come forward until now because..................

the bargening for the right amount,

and get instruction - training what to tell on interview took some time;

They could not start to train her - him , before they havn't got all details

how it happened, where exactly, weapons used, where stored ofter,

that was a punch of information to be put in the brain !!

and last lot least , to make him beleave he will get this money ever

or maybee some family member in hostage meantime;

[Tokay]

Considering some of the influential locals have refused to give a DNA test, I don't see what the point is of continuing this investigation. It's a farce at this point and everyone knows it.

[CapeThai]

Wow.. So now it's Asian TOURIST done these senseless crimes,,, as the DNA matches these of Asian men ?

Hmm.... I smell more cover ups.. Asian tourist from another country conveniently long gone........ SORRY, CASE CLOSED... But we did tried solving the case successfully by taking DNA samples from local woman and running around like decapitated chickens accusing a quite normal Brit as being Gay........ and please don't forget it's NOT a normal thing wearing a bikini while on holiday on a 30*C + Island...... My God... My He have mercy on their souls....

Now, run off Sherlock, and see if you can't find a Unicorn....

RIP These Innocent Young people just trying to have a good time.......

[partington]

70% match they have said, OK.

The question is, which 70%?

And that question might be used by some to muddy the waters. For a time that might work.

When trying to look for specific forensic matches, they won't be looking for the generic everybody on earth parts for matches,

but the ones that show familial connections, and yes the guys looking at DNA should know where to look and where not to bother.

Remember it's the big hats making the speeches, not the little guys who do the tech work.

This isn't how it works.

A DNA profiling test is designed to look for matches. They do not decide which bits to look at based on the family, the test measures the same things in every subject. It has to .

The point is to be able to say: this DNA comes from this person, with a less than one million to one possibility of a mistake. It is designed to be an identification method, but one which has 100% certainty.

To do this all DNA profiles look at 13 locations in each person's DNA. These are always the same places, and they are places that have (to simplify) between 1 and 20 repeats in each location. As each location is present twice (once on each pair of chromosomes) there are two repeat numbers for each location. So if we call each location A, B, C to M (13 locations) , each with 2 possible numbers, a DNA profile looks like this:

A (1,20): B (3, 7) :C (4, 1): D (12 17): E (20,1):F (3,9): G (5,11): H (6,20): I (2,2): J (3,19): K (8,9): L(6,16): M (2,11)

Because each of the numbers can be any value from 1 to 20 (I'm simplifying but the principle is true) the number of possible variations of this profile you can get is literally trillions. So if you test DNA left on the victim, and the suspect and they both have this profile, it identifies the suspect incontrovertibly, because there are so many different possible combinations, it is impossible to get the same one from two different people by chance. It would be like winning the lottery twice in a row.

Now, because a child gets exactly half of its chromosomes from the mother and half from the father, it is easy to tell if any suspect's DNA is from the child of a person from whom you have taken another DNA sample. Because in this case half the numbers will be the same. For half the numbers to be identical simply by chance would still be impossible for unrelated samples, because there are literally billions of possible combinations. So if you found a DNA profile like this:

A (1,3): B (3, 15) :C (4, 2): D (12 ,4): E (20,19):F (3,14): G (5,1): H (6,16): I (2,9): J (3,3): K (8,11): L(6,5): M (2,10)

Here at thirteen different places in this DNA one of the numbers is the same as the first profile, when each could have any possible value from 1 to 20 in the general population. This identifies this DNA as from a child of the first person, with no possible doubt.

The DNA profiling tests performed on all samples are the same, and do not involve "deciding" what to look at.

You miss read what I said, or at least my intent. You basically made my point in exquisite detail lost on all but a few here. The picture changes somewhat when looking at familial connections across generations and with cousins etc. and that is one the data sets they are in need of in this investigation. I broke all that down into some thing digestible for most who have been not grasping the picture well.

This is just not true.You are BSing. The picture (whatever that means) does not change somewhat when looking at familial connections. They carry out the DNA profiling tests on the 13 STR sites as I have described and that's it. They are already saying they do not have the funding to even do this.

You have already stated clearly that you thought they pick and choose where in the DNA to look

the guys looking at DNA should know where to look and where not to bother.

and now you are pretending you thought otherwise. All tests are the same. They do not decide where to look- the test is standard.

Edited September 27, 2014 by partington

[iReason]

I'm getting real tired of looking at these toads SMILING during these photo-ops, given the tragic circumstances.

I can't imagine any cop in the real world smiling at any press conference regarding a double homicide.

Simpletons...

Watch it...you may get cited by the moderators for inflammatory remarks about Thai people as you are implying all Thai people are simpletons.

Cheers

No.

Not all.

That's your interpretation now, isn't it?

[jabis]

Had I had any hope about the case, I would've losed it after this...

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/police-now-rule-koh-tao-headmans-son-murder-suspect-turn-foreign-tourists-probe/

[balo]

doesn't he look happy and relieved now?

He is a rich man today why wouldnt he smile?

[toonsai]

Please support this Facebook page:

Justice for Hannah Witheridge and David Miller

https://www.facebook.com/justiceforHannahandDavid

[animatic]

70% match they have said, OK.

The question is, which 70%?

And that question might be used by some to muddy the waters. For a time that might work.

When trying to look for specific forensic matches, they won't be looking for the generic everybody on earth parts for matches,

but the ones that show familial connections, and yes the guys looking at DNA should know where to look and where not to bother.

Remember it's the big hats making the speeches, not the little guys who do the tech work.

This isn't how it works.

A DNA profiling test is designed to look for matches. They do not decide which bits to look at based on the family, the test measures the same things in every subject. It has to .

The point is to be able to say: this DNA comes from this person, with a less than one million to one possibility of a mistake. It is designed to be an identification method, but one which has 100% certainty.

To do this all DNA profiles look at 13 locations in each person's DNA. These are always the same places, and they are places that have (to simplify) between 1 and 20 repeats in each location. As each location is present twice (once on each pair of chromosomes) there are two repeat numbers for each location. So if we call each location A, B, C to M (13 locations) , each with 2 possible numbers, a DNA profile looks like this:

A (1,20): B (3, 7) :C (4, 1): D (12 17): E (20,1):F (3,9): G (5,11): H (6,20): I (2,2): J (3,19): K (8,9): L(6,16): M (2,11)

Because each of the numbers can be any value from 1 to 20 (I'm simplifying but the principle is true) the number of possible variations of this profile you can get is literally trillions. So if you test DNA left on the victim, and the suspect and they both have this profile, it identifies the suspect incontrovertibly, because there are so many different possible combinations, it is impossible to get the same one from two different people by chance. It would be like winning the lottery twice in a row.

Now, because a child gets exactly half of its chromosomes from the mother and half from the father, it is easy to tell if any suspect's DNA is from the child of a person from whom you have taken another DNA sample. Because in this case half the numbers will be the same. For half the numbers to be identical simply by chance would still be impossible for unrelated samples, because there are literally billions of possible combinations. So if you found a DNA profile like this:

A (1,3): B (3, 15) :C (4, 2): D (12 ,4): E (20,19):F (3,14): G (5,1): H (6,16): I (2,9): J (3,3): K (8,11): L(6,5): M (2,10)

Here at thirteen different places in this DNA one of the numbers is the same as the first profile, when each could have any possible value from 1 to 20 in the general population. This identifies this DNA as from a child of the first person, with no possible doubt.

The DNA profiling tests performed on all samples are the same, and do not involve "deciding" what to look at.

You miss read what I said, or at least my intent. You basically made my point in exquisite detail lost on all but a few here. The picture changes somewhat when looking at familial connections across generations and with cousins etc. and that is one the data sets they are in need of in this investigation. I broke all that down into some thing digestible for most who have been not grasping the picture well.

This is just not true.You are BSing. The picture (whatever that means) does not change somewhat when looking at familial connections. They carry out the DNA profiling tests on the 13 STR sites as I have described and that's it. They are already saying they do not have the funding to even do this.

You have already stated clearly that you thought they pick and choose where in the DNA to look

the guys looking at DNA should know where to look and where not to bother.

and now you are pretending you thought otherwise. All tests are the same. They do not decide where to look- the test is standard.

I am not pretending nor trying to be pretensious.

You say so clearly yourself,

they pick 13 STR sites and not the others.

That certainly sounds like choosing to me.

They know where to look and ignore places that are not irrelevant.

It is a standard because they have already decided what I was saying they did.

The sequencing systems are set up to not waste time and resources.

As I said before, we are saying the same thing in different ways,

but I am not being a pedant about it.

Roger wilco. Over and out.

Edited September 27, 2014 by animatic

[balo]

The key witness must come forward and not hide himself. We need to know if the key witness is a local , a foreigner and if he/she was a tourist or not.

If they do not reveal who it is , the speculations will just continue and we'll all think that the headman is the key witness,

[poweratradio]

But the DNA??

So the female victim is raped by two Asian men, and this mysterious farang comes along and kills her and David??

Please, please Thai police keep your mouths shut!!

This makes sense if they are part of a white supremacist group who decided they must die for fornicating with non whites.

[Thai at Heart]

I can feel a "patsy" coming forward.....this is just unbelievable that people of this position can blurb such garbage........he's not only a disgrace to the RTP....(although true to the RTP reputation), but a thorough disgrace to Thailand

This witness is going to say what?

That they were scared for their life by a foreigner? Right ho. And then what will it be?

Some close friend of the Thai bloke saying that he saw the foreigner who did a runner do it like superman subduing and killing 2 peoe and then raping the girl.

Soap opera writing of the poorest quality it will turn out to be.

[Briggsy]

No wonder Panya is grinning. I would be grinning if I had just received 10 million Baht to look the other way and tell a few lies.

[toonsai]

Please like and share the below Facebook page.

Justice for Hannah Witheridge and David Miller

https://www.facebook.com/justiceforHannahandDavid

[lannarebirth]

But the DNA??

So the female victim is raped by two Asian men, and this mysterious farang comes along and kills her and David??

Please, please Thai police keep your mouths shut!!

This makes sense if they are part of a white supremacist group who decided they must die for fornicating with non whites.

I'll bet that was said tongue in cheek thinking how absurd that proposition would be. Nothing here is too absurd to be floated as a possible scenario. We are dealing in the realm of the surreal.

[MJP]

Please like and share the below Facebook page.

Justice for Hannah Witheridge and David Miller

https://www.facebook.com/justiceforHannahandDavid

Good.

Please put it in your TVF Signatures.

[CapeThai]

But the DNA??

So the female victim is raped by two Asian men, and this mysterious farang comes along and kills her and David??

Please, please Thai police keep your mouths shut!!

Agreed... It sound to me more like some Monday morning hangover story.

No common sense at all

[ozzyrules]

.

.

.

.]

This is normal police practice all over Thailand. If you want protection from the police you put your money in the red box they give you and a policeman will turn up daily usually on a mother bike, collect the money that has been arranged by the police as the price of protection and a visible police presence is seen so no one messes with that house or property or business.

What a load of crap!

We have 3 houses (two rentals) all with red boxes. The police comes around two or three times a day to check that everything is okay. They sign a booklet in the box with time of the visit (makes it possible for us to check that they have actually been there) and a signature. For that service we pay 1500 baht/month for all 3 boxes, not by any secret envelopes in the box but to a officer coming around to collect the fee.

This protection costs us about 7-8 baht per visit, which I consider extremely cheap for the security provided. For 12 years never had any crime in or near any of the houses.

Sorry, that corruption theory just went down the drain!!

So you admit that business' pay the police, not just yours but many of them..

Yet you fail to see how this is corrupt??????

[CapeThai]

.

.

.

.]

This is normal police practice all over Thailand. If you want protection from the police you put your money in the red box they give you and a policeman will turn up daily usually on a mother bike, collect the money that has been arranged by the police as the price of protection and a visible police presence is seen so no one messes with that house or property or business.

What a load of crap!

We have 3 houses (two rentals) all with red boxes. The police comes around two or three times a day to check that everything is okay. They sign a booklet in the box with time of the visit (makes it possible for us to check that they have actually been there) and a signature. For that service we pay 1500 baht/month for all 3 boxes, not by any secret envelopes in the box but to a officer coming around to collect the fee.

This protection costs us about 7-8 baht per visit, which I consider extremely cheap for the security provided. For 12 years never had any crime in or near any of the houses.

Sorry, that corruption theory just went down the drain!!

So you admit that business' pay the police, not just yours but many of them..

Yet you fail to see how this is corrupt??????

Yeh... I hate peace...!!!!

[SteveFong]

I have not seen this story on CNN or BBC TV.

I watch a lot of news, but maybe I missed it on TV.

I think it would make an interesting story.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/17/world/asia/thailand-british-tourist-deaths-tribute/

FINALLY!,

we got it to CNN

that is just what was needed to keep this going,

the reporter on the story MUST be kept pinged on Twitter,

they also put a link to the 13 year old girl who was raped and then thrown from a train,

Thailand,

the old days are over,

time to get rid of all the old police and make this a real military takeover

[MJP]

I have not seen this story on CNN or BBC TV.

I watch a lot of news, but maybe I missed it on TV.

I think it would make an interesting story.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/17/world/asia/thailand-british-tourist-deaths-tribute/

FINALLY!,

we got it to CNN

that is just what was needed to keep this going,

the reporter on the story MUST be kept pinged on Twitter,

they also put a link to the 13 year old girl who was raped and then thrown from a train,

Thailand,

the old days are over,

time to get rid of all the old police and make this a real military takeover

In a statement issued by the British Embassy in Bangkok, Witheridge's family said she was "a beautiful, intelligent, loving young woman who poured joy into the lives of all who knew her" and they were "utterly devastated and shocked by what has happened."

Miller's family described David Miller as "an artist by temperament, so talented. "He had a creative eye that he carried with him through life and in his degree. He was hard-working, bright and conscientious, with everything to look forward to."

[SteveFong]

People by and large don't realize just how far and how low Thais will go to fabricate a story, save face and save their butts.

It's quite obvious to anyone with any day to day knowledge of Thailand what is going on here; why the BIB said this, why the BIB said that, why the BIB played for time, why the crime scene was fouled, why the junta said whatever, what the headman's ploy was with his reward and alibis, why foreign social media was criticized etc etc ...yawn...

And we are all supposed to act dumb and soak up this nonsense like uneducated serfs living in a bygone age.

What to do? If the Thai authorities cannot face the truth, should this not be raised to an international rather than a domestic issue?

Although this was a great tragedy for the family, does it really rate as one of the world's great crisis that demands international investigation? What about all the Thais who die annually?

the answer is YES<

this does require international investigation so Thailand will grow up in the world and give people a real investigation and prosecution for ALL crimes in Thailand,

and to stop the mafia and the payoff systems,

do you prefer that Thailand just continue to rape and kill foreigners and then laugh about how stupid we all are for continuing to pay their bribes?

[MJP]

People by and large don't realize just how far and how low Thais will go to fabricate a story, save face and save their butts.

It's quite obvious to anyone with any day to day knowledge of Thailand what is going on here; why the BIB said this, why the BIB said that, why the BIB played for time, why the crime scene was fouled, why the junta said whatever, what the headman's ploy was with his reward and alibis, why foreign social media was criticized etc etc ...yawn...

And we are all supposed to act dumb and soak up this nonsense like uneducated serfs living in a bygone age.

What to do? If the Thai authorities cannot face the truth, should this not be raised to an international rather than a domestic issue?

Although this was a great tragedy for the family, does it really rate as one of the world's great crisis that demands international investigation? What about all the Thais who die annually?

the answer is YES<

this does require international investigation so Thailand will grow up in the world and give people a real investigation and prosecution for ALL crimes in Thailand,

and to stop the mafia and the payoff systems,

do you prefer that Thailand just continue to rape and kill foreigners and then laugh about how stupid we all are for continuing to pay their bribes?

I agree with Steve. Thailand needs to change for the benefit of Thai people.

[SteveFong]

I suggest all stay on the twitter feed of Kocha who did the CNN story,

this is the best lead yet, and if we keep the farce in the face of the world, eventually the TRUTH will rise to the surface,

and of course we know the TRUTH and FACE are not harmonious in Thailand

https://twitter.com/KochaOlarn

[DrTuner]

While getting murdered might not stop one from going to a holiday in Thailand, getting framed for one should do the trick.

[CharlieH]

Posts removed.

20) You will not post any member's personal information including emails, personal messages, photos or web site details. Advertising, sponsors, user accounts

[SteveFong]

I have made this case and the facebook page for the two brutally murdered young people from England, who were murdrered by ghosts after being raped by aliens

There is a facebook page for Thai ex pats with 24,000 members,

I just informed them, as well as Steve Forbes who is on my twitter feed and who is organizing an awards banquet in Bangkok

he just met w the Thai rep in NY last week