Tanasak tells UN why Thai Army took control of the country

[trogers]

noitom, on 29 Sept 2014 - 08:01, said:

But he failed to explain that the army failed to support the elected government making it powerless.

He also didn't explain why there have been 19 coups, 12 successful, since 1932, and why this one will make any difference compared to the others...on an average a coup every 2 years, who are this the greatest failures in providing democracy and change, the elected governments, or those who have been in power the most, ie, the military. Seems to me there has been failure after failure after failure. To me, being a foreigner, there just doesn't seem to be another, in Thailand, capable of forming government dedicated to Thailand's, and Thais, future.

You cannot do much with brain cancer, and regrafting tumors elsewhere after they have been removed. Edited September 29, 2014 by trogers

[Commerce]

noitom, on 29 Sept 2014 - 08:01, said:

But he failed to explain that the army failed to support the elected government making it powerless.

He also didn't explain why there have been 19 coups, 12 successful, since 1932, and why this one will make any difference compared to the others...on an average a coup every 2 years, who are this the greatest failures in providing democracy and change, the elected governments, or those who have been in power the most, ie, the military. Seems to me there has been failure after failure after failure. To me, being a foreigner, there just doesn't seem to be another, in Thailand, capable of forming government dedicated to Thailand's, and Thais, future.

...on average a coup every 2 years? Think you need to check out your maths. [19 x 2] + 32 > 1970........ it's now 2014...?

Edited September 29, 2014 by Commerce

[Eric Loh]

But he failed to explain that the army failed to support the elected government making it powerless.

If a government is acting in a manner contrary to the needs of the nation, following their own narrow self serving agenda, and against the democratic procedures of that country, then an army should not support it.

And who have the right to judge the governments acts: The army and its political wing the Democrats?

Not a fan of the Shins, but it is a dangerous path!

As for the "returning happiness to the people" BS, This was never about the people, but about keeping the existing feudal system in place!

Who indeed has the right to judge the acts of a government who was arming it's supporters with war weapons, and using the police to suppress dissents?

Wouldn't call 7 months of bunker down street shut downs in various locations and daily deluge of verbal assault of the government, suppressing dissents. Plus the pro PDRC media, government servants, courts and independent agencies all running amok with their attack of the government signs of suppressing dissents. Talk about war weapons, both have equally abundance and the PDRC even have Navy Seals guns for hire in their camps.m

[binjalin]

Powerful institutions did nothing to support a govt under siege but the military deemed it necessary to act to "protect democracy" and "return happiness to the people". The happiest people would be those few powerful and mega rich business families whose interests were challenged by the policies of the former government.

The rest of the world knows exactly what happened and will not be easily conned by this "rationale"

don't u have that backward?

no he has it 'spot on' as usual

don't be CONNED... people in HK are fighting to retain democracy and here? well here we have the Army in control

[kamahele]

I don't know if this was the plan from the start or not but the prior government had made itself so weak in refusing to put down the protests that it could no longer function as a government. Perfect excuse or reason for the military to step in which made the opposition happy.

[MediaWatcher]

Commerce, on 29 Sept 2014 - 10:16, said:

MediaWatcher, on 29 Sept 2014 - 10:02, said:

noitom, on 29 Sept 2014 - 08:01, said:noitom, on 29 Sept 2014 - 08:01, said:

But he failed to explain that the army failed to support the elected government making it powerless.

He also didn't explain why there have been 19 coups, 12 successful, since 1932, and why this one will make any difference compared to the others...on an average a coup every 2 years, who are this the greatest failures in providing democracy and change, the elected governments, or those who have been in power the most, ie, the military. Seems to me there has been failure after failure after failure. To me, being a foreigner, there just doesn't seem to be another, in Thailand, capable of forming government dedicated to Thailand's, and Thais, future.

...on average a coup every 2 years? Think you need to check out your maths. [19 x 2] + 32 > 1970........ it's now 2014...?

My mistake, I should have said the military has been in control for approx. 50% of the time.

[Bluespunk]

Powerful institutions did nothing to support a govt under siege but the military deemed it necessary to act to "protect democracy" and "return happiness to the people". The happiest people would be those few powerful and mega rich business families whose interests were challenged by the policies of the former government.

The rest of the world knows exactly what happened and will not be easily conned by this "rationale"

don't u have that backward?

no he has it 'spot on' as usual

don't be CONNED... people in HK are fighting to retain democracy and here? well here we have the Army in control

Yes, but to retain something it has to be there in the first place.

[Robby nz]

But he failed to explain that the army failed to support the elected government making it powerless.

If a government is acting in a manner contrary to the needs of the nation, following their own narrow self serving agenda, and against the democratic procedures of that country, then an army should not support it.

And who have the right to judge the governments acts: The army and its political wing the Democrats?

Not a fan of the Shins, but it is a dangerous path!

As for the "returning happiness to the people" BS, This was never about the people, but about keeping the existing feudal system in place!

The people have a right to judge the acts of the government and the opposition have a duty to judge the acts of the Government.

The people judged the acts of the PT Govt as unfair and aimed at increasing their hold on power and absolving a convicted criminal and all politicians of wrongdoing for the previous 4 years.

They saw this as unjust and came out in protest as was their right under the constitution.

As for the rest of your post, just the usual red crap from someone who has proved to be a fan of the shins by repeated posts.

[tigermoth]

something missing?? Freedom of speech.

[wave]

But he failed to explain that the army failed to support the elected government making it powerless.

If a government is acting in a manner contrary to the needs of the nation, following their own narrow self serving agenda, and against the democratic procedures of that country, then an army should not support it.

And who have the right to judge the governments acts: The army and its political wing the Democrats?

Not a fan of the Shins, but it is a dangerous path!

As for the "returning happiness to the people" BS, This was never about the people, but about keeping the existing feudal system in place!

The people have a right to judge the acts of the government and the opposition have a duty to judge the acts of the Government.

The people judged the acts of the PT Govt as unfair and aimed at increasing their hold on power and absolving a convicted criminal and all politicians of wrongdoing for the previous 4 years.

They saw this as unjust and came out in protest as was their right under the constitution.

As for the rest of your post, just the usual red crap from someone who has proved to be a fan of the shins by repeated posts.

Absolutely correct, the people do have a right to judge the acts of Government and that is achieved through the process of elections.

Sadly "the people" who opposed the government obstructed the election process which would have allowed "the people" to have a representative voice.

The government was never judged by the people it was overthrown by a military coup.

Now the people have no rights to judge "The Government" .....

What a massive failure.

[heyexile]

"we know that we cannot go against the tide of democracy." Well said General Tanasak.

But we can try. Buying time for national attitude adjustment and a redefining of the concept that even Eric Arthur Blair could scarcely have imagined.

[Dogmatix]

He will still be travelling round the world first class explaining the coup until it is time for him t step down. Nice work if you can get it.

[MaxYakov]

Can someone tell me why it is common to use someone's first name when referring to them in what would be considered a formal situation?

[brewsterbudgen]

Just words, which I very much doubt will impress or convince the world's democracies.

[chotthee]

And does he really believe that the UN believed his theory somehow I doubt it !

Yes. Now all Farang understand why Prayuth coup is absolutely needed.

It was a coup to stop Thais killing Thais.

I think Prayuth deserves to be award Noble Prize for Peace for saving life of many many innocent Thai (protesters) who could be killed by M79 of Thaksin's Men in Black.

[jucel]

I'm amazed how many westerners wax lyrical about having a military dictatorship & continuing this never ending patronage system!

I'm also amazed how many bang on about vote buying. EVERY political party in EVERY country buys votes, yet in the west it is done through a manifesto, rather than cash in hand!

[Bob12345]

I don't know if this was the plan from the start or not but the prior government had made itself so weak in refusing to put down the protests that it could no longer function as a government. Perfect excuse or reason for the military to step in which made the opposition happy.

The prior government tried to lay low as the protesters/military were trying to get them to act so they had an excuse for a coup.

When nothing happened they went a step further every time in the hope enough chaos would result and to be able to take over.

At the end they just jumped in on a random day that had seen no worse action than the day before as the protests were running out of steam.

Edited September 29, 2014 by Bob12345

[Bob12345]

Who indeed has the right to judge the acts of a government who was arming it's supporters with war weapons, and using the police to suppress dissents?

Yeah, I still remember Yingluck driving to Isaan with a pickup truck filled with machine guns and handing them out in front of TV cameras.

Oh wait, this all happened in your mind so I could not have seen that.

[indyuk]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Democracy is a self fulfilling philosophy which enables a feudal system to transfer its power to the people. Once democratised the people exert their power by electing a government and an opposition to rule the nation in accordance with the laws enshrined in their constitution. The people reelect a party to government on the evidence of government's behaviour when in office. The peoples opposition moderates the excesses of the elected government in accordance with the constitution. Over time the democratic system modifies the constitution based on their experience of the efficacy of the original constitution and its amendments. These amendments to an existing constitution eventually achieve a peoples constitution thats is infallible.

And who have the right to judge the governments acts: The army and its political wing the Democrats?

If a government is acting in a manner contrary to the needs of the nation, following their own narrow self serving agenda, and against the democratic procedures of that country, then an army should not support it.

But he failed to explain that the army failed to support the elected government making it powerless.

Not a fan of the Shins, but it is a dangerous path!

As for the "returning happiness to the people" BS, This was never about the people, but about keeping the existing feudal system in place!

[Thai at Heart]

Said the man who's undemocratic organisation has intervened in the democratic process god knows how many times.

What have they been.doing all these years?

[Eric Loh]

And does he really believe that the UN believed his theory somehow I doubt it !

Yes. Now all Farang understand why Prayuth coup is absolutely needed.

It was a coup to stop Thais killing Thais.

I think Prayuth deserves to be award Noble Prize for Peace for saving life of many many innocent Thai (protesters) who could be killed by M79 of Thaksin's Men in Black.

You don't take over the government to stop a few Bangkok centric incidents. This must be the biggest cop out excuse for the coup. The military has fallen way short of fulfilling their responsibilties during the shut down and could have been more cooperative and helpful in preventing the killings. This is no country wide disturbance and does not warrant a coup unless it part of the overall establishment plan. For that every little excuse will be used for a takeover.

[than]

But he failed to explain that the army failed to support the elected government making it powerless.

"Elected government" not mean democracy if it not respect rule of law !

[Bluespunk]

And does he really believe that the UN believed his theory somehow I doubt it !

Yes. Now all Farang understand why Prayuth coup is absolutely needed.

It was a coup to stop Thais killing Thais.

I think Prayuth deserves to be award Noble Prize for Peace for saving life of many many innocent Thai (protesters) who could be killed by M79 of Thaksin's Men in Black.

You don't take over the government to stop a few Bangkok centric incidents. This must be the biggest cop out excuse for the coup. The military has fallen way short of fulfilling their responsibilties during the shut down and could have been more cooperative and helpful in preventing the killings. This is no country wide disturbance and does not warrant a coup unless it part of the overall establishment plan. For that every little excuse will be used for a takeover.

I could be wrong but I think chotthee was being sarcastic.

[JOC]

But he failed to explain that the army failed to support the elected government making it powerless.

If a government is acting in a manner contrary to the needs of the nation, following their own narrow self serving agenda, and against the democratic procedures of that country, then an army should not support it.

And who have the right to judge the governments acts: The army and its political wing the Democrats?

Not a fan of the Shins, but it is a dangerous path!

As for the "returning happiness to the people" BS, This was never about the people, but about keeping the existing feudal system in place!

The people have a right to judge the acts of the government and the opposition have a duty to judge the acts of the Government.

The people judged the acts of the PT Govt as unfair and aimed at increasing their hold on power and absolving a convicted criminal and all politicians of wrongdoing for the previous 4 years.

They saw this as unjust and came out in protest as was their right under the constitution.

As for the rest of your post, just the usual red crap from someone who has proved to be a fan of the shins by repeated posts.

What a load of &lt;deleted&gt;! I will transfer 1000 baht into your bankaccount for each post by me, where I am supporting the Shin-clan. So go searching, with repeated posts it should be worthwhile!

You won't find any, because I am not a supporter of either side. I am just not supporting a powerstructure, where the fat cats are getting fatter every day, no matter what government. The politicians and their footsoldiers are just pawns for the people holding the real power in this country, who will do anything to avoid any change.

If you don't get that, you know very little about Thailand!

[rickirs]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

But he failed to explain that the army failed to support the elected government making it powerless.

If a government is acting in a manner contrary to the needs of the nation, following their own narrow self serving agenda, and against the democratic procedures of that country, then an army should not support it.

No. It is the PEOPLE THAT SHOULD NOT SUPPORT IT. That is how democracy works. The army should be nonpolitical and should not insert itself into governance of the people through its own unaccountable and nontransparent strucure.

[rickirs]

"Demo-cracy must be based on respect for the rule of law."

Here are selections of the Rule of Law prior to the May 2014 military coup from the 2007 Constitution:

Article 32. Arrest and detention of person shall not be made except by order or warrant issued by the Courts or there is a ground as provided by the law.

Article 36. A person shall enjoy the liberty of communication by lawful means.

Article 45. A person shall enjoy the liberty to express his opinion, make speech, write, print, publicise, and make expression by other means.

The prevention of a newspaper or other mass media from printing news or expressing their opinions, wholly or partly, or interference in any manner whatsoever in deprivation of the liberty under this section shall not be made except by the provisions of the law enacted in accordance with the provisions of paragraph two.

Article 63. A person shall enjoy the liberty to assemble peacefully and without arms.

Article 65. A person shall enjoy the liberty to unite and form a political party for the purpose of making political will of the people and carrying out political activities in fulfillment of such will through the democratic regime of government with the King as Head of State as provided in this Constitution.

Article 68. No person shall exercise the rights and liberties prescribed in the Constitution to overthrow the democratic regime of government with the King as Head of State under this Constitution or to acquire the power to rule the country by any means which is not in accordance with the modes provided in this Constitution.

Maybe Tanasak can explain how the Rule of Law was respected when the Junta’s first act after overthrowing the government was to suspend the 2007 Constitution.

[Wombat6]

But he failed to explain that the army failed to support the elected government making it powerless.

Who would support an "elected" government who was, it seemed, forgetting the reason that they were elected for. When a Government seems more concerned about how much they can rip off the Country to enlarge their personal wealth, mismanage populist vote buying schemes at the expense of the country. This "elected" government tried to use parliament to try and admonish criminals with an Amnesty bill ( and the main criminal was pulling the strings)......then naturally there is a backlash from the people who didn't want the farce to continue., You all know that the last Government was a joke !!

[brewsterbudgen]

But he failed to explain that the army failed to support the elected government making it powerless.

Who would support an "elected" government who was, it seemed, forgetting the reason that they were elected for. When a Government seems more concerned about how much they can rip off the Country to enlarge their personal wealth, mismanage populist vote buying schemes at the expense of the country. This "elected" government tried to use parliament to try and admonish criminals with an Amnesty bill ( and the main criminal was pulling the strings)......then naturally there is a backlash from the people who didn't want the farce to continue., You all know that the last Government was a joke !!

Then vote them out.

[khunpa]

"And it must be about good governance, transparency, accountability and equal access to justice. This was not the case in my country before May 22," the foreign minister said."

He's right, you know.

Has it changed since?

[Alwyn]

But he failed to explain that the army failed to support the elected government making it powerless.

If a government is acting in a manner contrary to the needs of the nation, following their own narrow self serving agenda, and against the democratic procedures of that country, then an army should not support it.

And who have the right to judge the governments acts: The army and its political wing the Democrats?

Not a fan of the Shins, but it is a dangerous path!

As for the "returning happiness to the people" BS, This was never about the people, but about keeping the existing feudal system in place!

I am no fan of military coups nor this returning happiness, but in this case I think the army had to act. The PT govt was no longer following democratic procedures and was subverting rule for the people into rule for our clique. And yes the PDRC was no better. That's why the military had to act. Democracy had been abandoned long before May 22nd.

But the PT government had stepped down and followed legal process by staying as caretaker government until an election could be held. The election was democratically blocked by hand grenades and violence though