Costs & Expectations of Expat Aging Gay

[thaicurious]

Hi forum, Hoping to get some input from you guys.

I'm a few years away but heading towards 60, yikes, no idea how that happened, twice widowed, currently sans a relationship and though from a large involved family I find as I age, they die or go off on their own. No one told me to plan for that. Still have friends from as far back as childhood but they're dying too or into their own lives. I wind up seeing those I love less and less and this is getting real weird for me so I'm thinking of a complete change. I've never been to Thailand, have studied it for years, also am a student of Buddhism, not the Thai variety but I don't really see myself in Tibet. Maybe I'd check out Vietnam after acclimating to SEA for more exposure to the Mahayana schools. I'm not into religion as dogmatic but as interest so a preference, not a priority.

I understand from reading forums that gay socializing in Thailand might be a bit different from here, particularly for an aging (oh I hate that word) gay man. I still look pretty good, I've always kept my body in shape and my family tends to keep a youthful look beyond our years. People even younger sometimes get pissed off when they realize I'm older than them. But I know I'm not what I was and I know it's downhill from here. Given all that, I presume I might one day wind up buying my dates dinner, at least. I guess my free ride's nearly over, huh? Bummer. So I've never done anything like "pay for it" and you might be able to tell I'm a bit shy about that. Not that I really care, certainly not as a moral issue. And I do find human touch important, even that means massage, whatever. Always I knew one day this would be the case. Just thought I'd luck out and die first. haha. So much for planning.

So one of my concerns is "dating" costs, massages, etc. (I currently sort of hate the idea of it but I guess I'll get used to that, so pardon my being so vanilla.) I am practical minded so do consider that a budget item. Also my big concern is medical insurance. Not that I have issues as I don't. But in the states it is getting ridiculously expensive. Inflation on that has been insane. I never use the damned policy yet it continues to skyrocket at about 20% per year.

I understand medical care and therefore insurance costs are much lower in Thailand but I don't know how expensive that might get as I age so hoping especially to get input on that from any of you older guys. Here in the states, Medicare would kick in at 65 reducing those costs tremendously. But over the next few years, costs will be crazy. Also I think I understand that to get into the international insurance system, I need to do that by date certain. That I can only get in under whatever age and after that I'd be locked out of that system. So I'm considering making that switch now, though I've probably a few years to decide that.

My material needs are not much. I'd be happy biking around, hiking, walking the town, volunteering to bathe baby elephants in the river. I think I'd love that. Though I am concerned about getting bored after five years of not being productive. I've lived a very good life so to reduce spending even by far I wouldn't feel I missed out on anything. I love love love Thai food and I am a vegetarian mostly so I think I'd fit in with that. I do also love cheese and I understand that's an issue due to the Asian digestive system. So I guess cheese can get pricey. I don't drink much once I settle in but I imagine if I'm off on my own, particularly early on, I'd be out partying. My ability to pick up on another language, however is extremely lacking. I've tried. Can't do it. I'll be able to get some words to be polite but that's about it. From what I've been reading, I was thinking a good situation might be part year in Chiang Mai and then in Pattaya during I guess it's the burning season when the air up there goes bad.

If I sold out now, I'd have a very conservative budget that I'd like to keep at $1500/month US for about 9-10 years if that's doable and comfortable enough. I guess that's about 48,500 baht at today's rates. That would give my savings a chance to grow and then on top of that I'd collect pensions mid 60s so I figure from mid 60s to my mid 70s I'd have about 110,000 baht/month and then as I've some long lifers in the family I project that out to 100, so unless economies tank by then, I project about 145,000 baht/month from my mid 70s to 80s and then about 190,000 baht/month until dead.

My worst case scenario I suppose would be losing all my principal, relying on pensions and then instead of having insurance simply dying if I get sick. Solves that problem.

So TL:DR

What sort of lifestyle would I expect spending for all costs including entertainment and insurance 48,500 baht/month from mid/late 50s to mid 60s and then spending 110,000 baht/month from ages mid 60s to mid 70s? And if anyone knows, what sort of inflation, premiums might I expect for medical insurance in my 70s & 80s. I realize no one knows the future, but I'd love to hear from guys in their 70s 80s now who have been in the international insurance system for 20 whatever years.

Thank you in advance.

[Costas2008]

OP, what's the difference if you are gay or not?

We all live in the same country, we all have nearly the same expenses.

Why would living in Thailand make any difference for you?

You have a good income, enjoy it.

But please don't try to single yourself out.

[thaicurious]

OP, what's the difference if you are gay or not?

We all live in the same country, we all have nearly the same expenses.

Why would living in Thailand make any difference for you?

You have a good income, enjoy it.

But please don't try to single yourself out.

I'm not certain how that answers any of my questions or concerns but thank you for your input. I will do my very best to not single myself out, though I really don't know what that means so if I do it again, you just let me know.

[sustento]

I think what Costas is trying to say is that you are restricting the number of people who could help you if you confine your questions to the gay forum. The fact that you're gay won't make any difference to your living costs. A massage with a happy ending costs pretty much the same whether you're gay or straight. The only advantage that you have by being gay is that you're not likely to become a father any time soon.

[robertthebruce]

Hi

I am no expert, but with your kind of Budget, you could have a nice Retirement...

Life in Thailand is Good, and there is more positives than negatives....

Thai people are lovely, and they don't discriminate if you are Gay, well after four years here, I have felt no hostility towards me, as for Thai men, berry very nice and caring, and loving...

As for Massages and all that, never been down that road, so not sure what to expect...

My Thai partner, puts me first for everything, including food etc etc.

I am strict Vegetarian, and he is an excellent cook, we do eat out a lot, and the food is excellent, you DEFINETLY will not starve for sure here in Thailand..

Your choice of City's to love, is a personel choice, I live in Phuket, as I love the beach life etc etc,

I am a great believer life is for living and give Thailand a go, and see what happens...

All the best, and hope my input gives you a clearer picture of life here...

All the best

[AnotherOneAmerican]

"What sort of lifestyle would I expect spending for all costs including entertainment and insurance 48,500 baht/month from mid/late 50s to mid 60s and then spending 110,000 baht/month from ages mid 60s to mid 70s? And if anyone knows, what sort of inflation, premiums might I expect for medical insurance in my 70s & 80s. I realize no one knows the future, but I'd love to hear from guys in their 70s 80s now who have been in the international insurance system for 20 whatever years."

I'm happily living on 45k/month in Chiang Mai, that's a family of 5 (ages from 3 up to 65) and that includes my home loan repayments.

Come on out, you have plenty of money for the single, gay lifestyle, if you are reasonably prudent with money.

And you'll have a great time, nobody cares about your age or looks, if you have money to spend, you're in.

Loads of straight and gay English speakers from age 50 up.

I only have 30kBht accident insurance, zero health insurance.

Prices from,

Condo, $150/month inc utils, Cinema $3 (over 50 discount), Lunch in food court $2, gay massage $15.

Edited October 2, 2014 by AnotherOneAmerican

[thaicurious]

I think what Costas is trying to say is that you are restricting the number of people who could help you if you confine your questions to the gay forum. The fact that you're gay won't make any difference to your living costs. A massage with a happy ending costs pretty much the same whether you're gay or straight. The only advantage that you have by being gay is that you're not likely to become a father any time soon.

Thank you for clarification but besides that I am more comfortable discussing sexual matters within my own orientation (not that there's anything wrong with being str8), I would think there may be differences particularly with regard to costs which would justify asking not just anywhere but in a gay forum about gay relationships which might avail themselves to a gay man as he ages.

On the marriage front alone, for example, because of societal constraints, I won't have the advantage of marrying and through that buying into some less expensive Isaan property where I don't speak the language but which might protect myself from future inflation costs. And even though I prefer people my age, here in the US it is more likely that my age prefers younger than me as do the young prefer younger so I don't even know how that might work in LOS. Does all that come with a premium for being gay which doesn't currently offer the possibility of marriage so might that differ in other ways between the orientations?

Does the str8 world also have their version of the gay sauna or are there differing costs with regard to how ever else my day might go. Also I don't know what the employment situation (not for me, but) for locals might be. Would a male or female be more likely to be employed and have health insurance or would I have to carry those costs and do I have enough money for that. I certainly wouldn't want someone who I might love to be unprotected without insurance coverage so that might all differ depending on orientation.

And learning about what lifestyle such incomes might afford. I don't have to concern myself with the costs of raising a kid but are there other costs involved? Is the culture there more likely to expect support for an extended family if the relationship with a foreigner was with a female who you might marry or a gay man who might even have been, sadly, rejected from his own unaccepting family? So given such possibilities, I thought there might be differences which would indicate to me placement of such a question.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

I think you are under a sexual misapprehension,

Expats in Thailand are extremely sexually liberal.

We pretty much don't care about our pals sexual orientation.

Straight, gay, bi, ladyboy attracted, really nobody cares, it's all on offer, and many have dabbled in the variations available.

Gay massage is exactly the same as hetero massage, same cost, same options.

Even the temple massage, where guys massage guys, and girls massage girls, the guys try 'extras' on.

Thailand is the wildest place you could imagine.

Actually without being here, it's impossible to imagine the goings on.

Nothing to stop you buying your own condo outright in your own name.

In Cm a decent 1 bed, 1 living, small kitchen condo starts from around $35,000.

Forget Issan, it's a rural backwoods redneck nightmare.

Every Thai national is entitled to free government health care, and it's pretty good too.

Forget the questions, come over for 3 months and try it first hand.

Edited October 2, 2014 by AnotherOneAmerican

[thaicurious]

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Hi

I am no expert, but with your kind of Budget, you could have a nice Retirement...

Life in Thailand is Good, and there is more positives than negatives....

Thai people are lovely, and they don't discriminate if you are Gay, well after four years here, I have felt no hostility towards me, as for Thai men, berry very nice and caring, and loving...

As for Massages and all that, never been down that road, so not sure what to expect...

My Thai partner, puts me first for everything, including food etc etc.

I am strict Vegetarian, and he is an excellent cook, we do eat out a lot, and the food is excellent, you DEFINETLY will not starve for sure here in Thailand..

Your choice of City's to love, is a personel choice, I live in Phuket, as I love the beach life etc etc,

I am a great believer life is for living and give Thailand a go, and see what happens...

All the best, and hope my input gives you a clearer picture of life here...

All the best

Thank you much. That was a lovely response. I don't require playing the field but I don't rule it out and I'd certainly expect myself to play until I found or fell into a permanent situation. Also I wouldn't rule it out if a partner wanted an open relationship. Given loyalty and emotional monogamy, I have no sexual jealousy issues. Sexually I can be open or monogamous. I'm pretty easy going in that regard.

My interest in Chiang Mai is both cost and especially all the temples there. I do enjoy Buddhism and though I haven't been yet, the pictures I've seen of the temples blow me away. They just look so beautiful. I think I'd love to be around that. And from what I've read I picked Pattaya as a second home (but I could be anywhere, I suppose) because it looks like a lot fun. haha. I was wondering also would living in two places at different times of year drive up my costs by much or would that be fairly negligible given my income?

You sound very lucky to have such a good partner. And one who can cook. Yay. I have always loved Asian food and Thai particularly. Yet it's not always so easy finding good Asian food here. I actually drive a half hour just to get a dish I love. Though I suppose there good pizza is more difficult to find. Always a trade off.

"What sort of lifestyle would I expect spending for all costs including entertainment and insurance 48,500 baht/month from mid/late 50s to mid 60s and then spending 110,000 baht/month from ages mid 60s to mid 70s? And if anyone knows, what sort of inflation, premiums might I expect for medical insurance in my 70s & 80s. I realize no one knows the future, but I'd love to hear from guys in their 70s 80s now who have been in the international insurance system for 20 whatever years."

I'm happily living on 45k/month in Chiang Mai, that's a family of 5 (ages from 3 up to 65) and that includes my home loan repayments.
Come on out, you have plenty of money for the single, gay lifestyle, if you are reasonably prudent with money.
And you'll have a great time, nobody cares about your age or looks, if you have money to spend, you're in.
Loads of straight and gay English speakers from age 50 up.

I only have 30kBht accident insurance, zero health insurance.

Prices from,
Condo, $150/month inc utils, Cinema $3 (over 50 discount), Lunch in food court $2, gay massage $15.

Thank you, that's good info. I'd be very uncomfortable without health insurance and so that is a concern of mine, especially as I age. So if anyone else can chime in with those costs I'd appreciate it. I'd especially like info on how much your premiums have risen over your years there so I might be able to project those figures into my future costs.

A discount on $3? Wow. I love it. It's hard to wrap my brain around those costs which should otherwise alleviate my fear of not having enough money. Particularly scary is not having the ability to go to work there if I so require or simply desire. Good to hear of so many English speaking people around my age. I'd require that socializing.

It sounds like you have a very nice family. That's something I'm starting to miss a lot. The generation before me is dying off--I can't believe how many people I've buried-- while being gay, I never had kids; and my brother's kids are off on their own life. So this is a tough transition for me.

I'm trying to decide now whether to stay here and start a new career in a new direction in place as I won't have kids and grand kids in my future so maybe I should have that instead, or should I go off on a Thai adventure. I don't yet know what to do. But I very much admire you guys who have taken that step. It scares me yet entices me. Very strange.

[thaicurious]

I think you are under a sexual misapprehension,

Expats in Thailand are extremely sexually liberal.

We pretty much don't care about our pals sexual orientation.

Straight, gay, bi, ladyboy attracted, really nobody cares, it's all on offer, and many have dabbled in the variations available.

Gay massage is exactly the same as hetero massage, same cost, same options.

Even the temple massage, where guys massage guys, and girls massage girls, the guys try 'extras' on.

Thailand is the wildest place you could imagine.

Actually without being here, it's impossible to imagine the goings on.

Nothing to stop you buying your own condo outright in your own name.

In Cm a decent 1 bed, 1 living, small kitchen condo starts from around $35,000.

Forget Issan, it's a rural backwoods redneck nightmare.

Every Thai national is entitled to free government health care, and it's pretty good too.

Forget the questions, come over for 3 months and try it first hand.

Thank you for more good info. If I were to come over for a test run, would it make more sense to come when weather is the best to enjoy that or in the rainy season I've heard about which I guess would make it more difficult to get around but would give me a better idea of the not so very best of the place?

I wasn't aware that nationals there have health care so thanx for that info. Tough to think outside of this American mindset of mine. One of my reasons for considering Thailand is to get away from the judgmentalism of living here but still hard to imagine.

Edited October 2, 2014 by thaicurious

[sustento]

The very first thing you need to do before you make any major decisions is take a holiday in Thailand and see if you like it. Retiring to a place you've never actually been to is not a sensible thing to do.

[thaicurious]

The very first thing you need to do before you make any major decisions is take a holiday in Thailand and see if you like it. Retiring to a place you've never actually been to is not a sensible thing to do.

Yes, I definitely would. I'm not crazy about the idea of such a long flight, of course. So that has delayed my investigating in person. And one of my biggest fears is that I think I will love it there.

[sustento]

The very first thing you need to do before you make any major decisions is take a holiday in Thailand and see if you like it. Retiring to a place you've never actually been to is not a sensible thing to do.

Yes, I definitely would. I'm not crazy about the idea of such a long flight, of course. So that has delayed my investigating in person. And one of my biggest fears is that I think I will love it there.

You will but you have to understand that although superficially it may appear to be western culturally it is as far from western as you can get. There are a couple of books that you might want to read before you go.

Culture Shock Thailand by Robert and Nanthapa Cooper. Straightforward description of the things that are different.

Thailand Fever - Chris Pirazzi and Vitada Vasant. Written in English and Thai to try and explain some of the problems that might crop up in boyfriend/girlfriend situations although it's relevant to a lot of gay situations too

Mai Pen Rai Means Never MInd - The memoirs of an American housewife who lived in Bangkok and taught at the top university in Thailand. Old but still relevant. Amazon USA have used copies in stock at the moment.

[sustento]

A couple of websites you might want to look at

http://dreadedned.com/

http://www.radchada.com/

[robertthebruce]

I think the best idea is come over for sure.

If you like temples there is one ral stunner up in Chang Rai, it's called "The White Temple", it's beautiful, and that area of Thailamd is nice, clean Fresh air and quite mild in the cold season....

But come on over , put your wee toe in the water.... Test things out..

All the best

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Thank you for more good info. If I were to come over for a test run, would it make more sense to come when weather is the best to enjoy that or in the rainy season I've heard about which I guess would make it more difficult to get around but would give me a better idea of the not so very best of the place?

Not much rain this rainy season, sure Nov, Dec, Jan are the coolest months.

But in CM most days it's 30+C.

Bit of smog in march, April which you might want to avoid.

Doesn't bother me, it's all good.

[thaicurious]

The very first thing you need to do before you make any major decisions is take a holiday in Thailand and see if you like it. Retiring to a place you've never actually been to is not a sensible thing to do.

Yes, I definitely would. I'm not crazy about the idea of such a long flight, of course. So that has delayed my investigating in person. And one of my biggest fears is that I think I will love it there.

You will but you have to understand that although superficially it may appear to be western culturally it is as far from western as you can get. There are a couple of books that you might want to read before you go.

Culture Shock Thailand by Robert and Nanthapa Cooper. Straightforward description of the things that are different.

Thailand Fever - Chris Pirazzi and Vitada Vasant. Written in English and Thai to try and explain some of the problems that might crop up in boyfriend/girlfriend situations although it's relevant to a lot of gay situations too

Mai Pen Rai Means Never MInd - The memoirs of an American housewife who lived in Bangkok and taught at the top university in Thailand. Old but still relevant. Amazon USA have used copies in stock at the moment.

Thank you and for the websites. I'll look into the lit, already perused the sites. Interesting. Certainly seems gay life is accommodated there.

I definitely do not expect there to be here. Though even here people rarely fail to surprise me, so I've training in that.

[thaicurious]

I think the best idea is come over for sure.

If you like temples there is one ral stunner up in Chang Rai, it's called "The White Temple", it's beautiful, and that area of Thailamd is nice, clean Fresh air and quite mild in the cold season....

But come on over , put your wee toe in the water.... Test things out..

All the best

Already talking to a cousin here about heading over there for a few weeks. She suggested I ask if anyone might know of a community or an apartment building, etc., where I might like to live which might rent me a furnished place for a few weeks or a month so I get the feel for it. Any suggestions appreciated.

I'd never heard of the White Temple but on google imaging the place, wow, thank you. that took my breath away. Gorgeous. I wonder if they'll rent me a room. I hope they have a pool out back.

Speaking of testing the water, swimming laps is sort of my thing so if anyone knows of complexes with at least about a 25 meter or so pool, I'd appreciate it.

[thaicurious]

Thank you for more good info. If I were to come over for a test run, would it make more sense to come when weather is the best to enjoy that or in the rainy season I've heard about which I guess would make it more difficult to get around but would give me a better idea of the not so very best of the place?

Not much rain this rainy season, sure Nov, Dec, Jan are the coolest months.

But in CM most days it's 30+C.

Bit of smog in march, April which you might want to avoid.

Doesn't bother me, it's all good.

Good info. I'm already booked to see my dad in November but I could do Dec or after that. I just converted 30 to 86 f and I'm already in Florida so not a problem. I'm good with heat and humidity, lived in it most my life.

I guess the smog you speak of is the burning I've read about. I will avoid march/april. thank you.

Do most expats clear out during the smog or do people tend to stay put and find ways to cope?

Edited October 3, 2014 by thaicurious

[thaicurious]

I've been looking for swimming pools in Chiang Mai and Pattaya. I found a few that look pretty wonderful for swimming laps in Chiang Mai but seem a bit out of town. But I've noticed some hotels have good pools. For instance, I found online what looks fantastic, in Pattaya, Jomtien actually, at the Ambassador, a huge pool that would be perfect for laps. Looks about Olympic sized.

Does anyone know if those places might sell monthly memberships, sort of like a spa, so that non hotel guests can use the facilities? Or even better, does anyone know of an apartment complex in town with a large (lengthwise) pool?

Also I checked just before a few sites for medical insurance. It is stunning the savings over American. For similar insurance that I have today yet with a lesser deduct, Bupa quotes $264/month and Cigna quotes US $182/month with a 3000 deduct on their middle plan. I also put in for quotes in older years and got about 337 for mid/late 60s, 527 for mid/late 70s, 609 for mid/late 80s at today's rates. That is an incredible savings over what we pay here. Even good Medicare supplemental insurance is about $400/month, so these savings are stunning.

Edited October 3, 2014 by thaicurious

[Scott]

I am sort of a fly by the seat-of-your-pants type of person, so I may not be of much help. I had an elderly neighbor who lived in Thailand for many years. He actually was on a plane to the Philippines, where he planned to retire and met some nice people who said he should come to Thailand -- at least for a holiday. He bypassed actually even entering the Philippines, came to Thailand for his visit and stayed for close to 40 years. He returned briefly to his home country, but didn't like it and came back.

It's good to put some thought into it, but Thailand is an experience. Come on over. Get an inexpensive place, travel around a bit, check out CM, Pattaya. Be sure and make some visits to other major centers, like Hua Hin, Cha-am and of course Bangkok.

Temples are nice, but to be very honest, I've had friends who were into Buddhism and temples, and that wore thin very, very quickly. I spent time in Europe and they have some great cathedrals but it doesn't take long before driving by was good enough for me, if I did stop, it took about 5 minutes to see the inside.

If you are a tourist, you can get insurance for tourists. Then once you feel comfortable, go for the retirement end. You might want to travel a bit in Vietnam and Cambodia as well. At least worth a look-see.

Best of luck.

[thaicurious]

I am sort of a fly by the seat-of-your-pants type of person, so I may not be of much help. I had an elderly neighbor who lived in Thailand for many years. He actually was on a plane to the Philippines, where he planned to retire and met some nice people who said he should come to Thailand -- at least for a holiday. He bypassed actually even entering the Philippines, came to Thailand for his visit and stayed for close to 40 years. He returned briefly to his home country, but didn't like it and came back.

It's good to put some thought into it, but Thailand is an experience. Come on over. Get an inexpensive place, travel around a bit, check out CM, Pattaya. Be sure and make some visits to other major centers, like Hua Hin, Cha-am and of course Bangkok.

Temples are nice, but to be very honest, I've had friends who were into Buddhism and temples, and that wore thin very, very quickly. I spent time in Europe and they have some great cathedrals but it doesn't take long before driving by was good enough for me, if I did stop, it took about 5 minutes to see the inside.

If you are a tourist, you can get insurance for tourists. Then once you feel comfortable, go for the retirement end. You might want to travel a bit in Vietnam and Cambodia as well. At least worth a look-see.

Best of luck.

Hi and thanx for more good info.

I wish I was fly by the seat but I'm more analysis paralysis. Though once I figure it out and settle in I'm there for good. I would imagine myself never returning once heading in that direction so that's a big step for me. The temples for me are really just for aesthetics. I'm also a big nature lover. What I imagine myself appreciating especially is getting out of the Judeo-Christian mindset of the USA and into a Buddhist culture. That has to be an improvement.

I'm torn between a few issues. One is that my dad is still alive at 86 and he fears me leaving but he's got his wife and my brother here and my brother is a responsible guy, having moved his in-laws in with him already. If needed, what's one more, haha. But also I'm thinking I should wait as long as possible more towards my pension date though I could in theory afford it now. Maybe I should work for a bit longer just to shore things up. But on the other hand, from what I've been reading about medical insurance, to get into Bupa, for instance, I'd have to sign up before I hit 60 to assure being able to have insurance after 70 so that's a huge issue and might influence my hand. All stuff I never had to consider before. I guess I thought life for me would be what my parents knew but being gay I didn't have marriage or kids so none of that support or anchoring. And now that I find so many of my loved ones dying off, I'm waking up to that. Thus my motto: Getting old sucks.

So maybe changing things up might be good for me. Anyway, I appreciate all the input. Thank you.

I'd appreciate too if someone could elucidate on just what my lifestyle might be given an initial budget of 1500/month US, so I guess that's about 48,000 at today's rates. It's so hard to image that's doable.

So say I've got med insurance for about $200 and I'm going to guess from what I've been reading $350 rent in Chiang Mai but maybe $500 in Pattaya (are there taxes on top of that?) I'm not sure about internet or electric and I guess water is minimal for bathing but you buy drinking water--I drink a lot of water. I do like air conditioning cold at night for sleeping though I'd imagine being out and about for most of the day. For food I already prefer Asian over Western and when I party I tend to be a weekend person, not an every night person. And I tend to settle in more so than travel. I live mostly in my head. I have had massages of course but not happy ending ones and I used to play in the baths when I was younger but not in many years. How much do expats pay to play? What might that budget be?

I don't understand the smog issue in that do people rent annually but then leave and also rent another place while keeping the smog apartment or do you rent 1/2 year in one place and 1/2 in a nonsmog apartment? And then I guess you'd have to rent only furnished places? How's that work?

Also I'm not sure how I feel about all the studio living I seem to find advertised. Never mind that seems like a lot of money when considering price per square foot and not even a full kitchen. To me it seems like renting a hotel room for the price of an apartment. And not that I use all of my house; it's actually mostly wasted space and I have lived on boats but I've never lived in a confined space on land. Seems a little strange to my mind. So I was wondering how expats accustomed to western living take to that.

[thaicurious]

I have more questions.

Does anyone have actual stats or a sense of what might be the median age of expats in Thailand. When I look at youtubes of gay bar scenes, everyone seems kinda old. I always think everyone's older than me anyway as I've got Peter Pan syndrome, also no wrinkles yet but I got some age spots so I guess I could show those off. Is 50s a little too young or would that fit in with the bar crowd?

Also, regarding dating, is the scene mostly older expats with younger locals or do middle aged/older Thai people also date expats? Do older expats date older expats or do most of them head over to Thailand with the expectation of dating younger?

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Also I'm not sure how I feel about all the studio living I seem to find advertised. Never mind that seems like a lot of money when considering price per square foot and not even a full kitchen. To me it seems like renting a hotel room for the price of an apartment. And not that I use all of my house; it's actually mostly wasted space and I have lived on boats but I've never lived in a confined space on land. Seems a little strange to my mind. So I was wondering how expats accustomed to western living take to that.

Chiang Mai, most of the expats I mix with are late 40s to early 60s, younger people don't have spare time.

Lots of foolish foreigners paying way over the odds for places to live.

Plenty on this forum, don't know why they do it, maybe they feel more secure surrounded by other foreigners.

2 bed house in the burbs with garden in a Thai community is easy for 5k/month + utils (no taxes)

I had a nice house 10Km from the center, nice lawn, 3 mango trees, 2 bed 2 shower, 1 aircon for 5K.

Add internet 630bht, elect 1,000bht, water 200bht, rubbish collection 100bht.

In town studio, 3k5, plus 1k5 for utils, total bill 5kbht, plenty available.

Separate living room and bedroom, starting from 6kbht.

If you're into fitness at minimal cost, huge number of mountain walkers/runners/cyclists.

I'm out 3 days a week or more with the boyz (all in their 40s and 50s), hundreds of trails and tracks through the mountains. And they wind through some really beautiful temples.

Edited October 4, 2014 by AnotherOneAmerican

[thaicurious]

Also I'm not sure how I feel about all the studio living I seem to find advertised. Never mind that seems like a lot of money when considering price per square foot and not even a full kitchen. To me it seems like renting a hotel room for the price of an apartment. And not that I use all of my house; it's actually mostly wasted space and I have lived on boats but I've never lived in a confined space on land. Seems a little strange to my mind. So I was wondering how expats accustomed to western living take to that.

Chiang Mai, most of the expats I mix with are late 40s to early 60s, younger people don't have spare time.

Lots of foolish foreigners paying way over the odds for places to live.

Plenty on this forum, don't know why they do it, maybe they feel more secure surrounded by other foreigners.

2 bed house in the burbs with garden in a Thai community is easy for 5k/month + utils (no taxes)

I had a nice house 10Km from the center, nice lawn, 3 mango trees, 2 bed 2 shower, 1 aircon for 5K.

Add internet 630bht, elect 1,000bht, water 200bht, rubbish collection 100bht.

In town studio, 3k5, plus 1k5 for utils, total bill 5kbht, plenty available.

Separate living room and bedroom, starting from 6kbht.

If you're into fitness at minimal cost, huge number of mountain walkers/runners/cyclists.

I'm out 3 days a week or more with the boyz (all in their 40s and 50s), hundreds of trails and tracks through the mountains. And they wind through some really beautiful temples.

Thank you for more good info. Very hard to wrap my brain around such prices but I'm working on it. That sure would give my savings a chance to grow back over 10 years or so before pension kicks in. I'm not sure of some of your usage of symbols, however. I take it that 5kbht is 5,000 baht or about $156 US, wow, I love the idea of that. But what is 3k5 or 1k5? Sorry but I've never seen $s expressed like that before. Oh, I think I see by adding up to your total. So 3k5 is 3,500? Interesting. That must be the metric system I've heard so much about. lol. No wonder we never switched haha. Interesting to see that utilities can be so expensive relative to housing costs, still more than reasonable though, obviously. I found what looks to be a pretty good website for locating apartments. This one (hope is okay to reference here) http://chiangmaiproperties.co.th/EN/index.aspx as most just seem to show the pricier stuff but this one seems to have the prices you talk about. If someone could peruse their location options and get back to me with best areas to look, I'd appreciate that. I think I figured out to look in Phra Sing and Si Phum but I really don't know what I'm doing.

A home with a garden out of town might be nice eventually (I have an extensive garden currently), and especially if I settled into a relationship, but I'd think to start I'd want to be city central. I don't know the area haha, never mind that part of the world, the area lol, but from google mapping and google streets it looks like I ought to start in the walled area I guess it might be called or over by the river? I'd want lots of convenience to start and to be around as many English speakers as possible, I'd think. And it would be good to be near some gay entertainment, bars whatever.

Though there also seems to be some nice stuff but further out, where I see more stuff with swimming pools, I guess out towards the zoo. And it happens that I'd probably go to the zoo a lot. I prefer that to bars. But maybe that would be better after settling in for a while.

I love your description of hiking & biking through trails leading past temples. That sounds wonderful. I've been a mountain biker since my early 40s when I discovered it. I've got a very good one which I guess I should sell here and buy a regular one over there. also I appreciate getting the ages of the bar scene there. That makes me feel a bit more comfortable.

I'll be with family later this month and some more next and approach them with this and see how freaked out they are. Then try to process all that and try to get out for an exploration trip later this year or early next.

Wow, ten, twenty years ago I'd never have guessed I'd be considering this. But I had more people still alive then. Life. What a long strange trip it's been.

[onthemoon]

I have more questions.

Does anyone have actual stats or a sense of what might be the median age of expats in Thailand. When I look at youtubes of gay bar scenes, everyone seems kinda old. I always think everyone's older than me anyway as I've got Peter Pan syndrome, also no wrinkles yet but I got some age spots so I guess I could show those off. Is 50s a little too young or would that fit in with the bar crowd?

Also, regarding dating, is the scene mostly older expats with younger locals or do middle aged/older Thai people also date expats? Do older expats date older expats or do most of them head over to Thailand with the expectation of dating younger?

I was 28 when I moved to Thailand. So, no, 50s is not too young. But you have a wider choice of venues.

Ok, I am just over 50 now. I feel comfortable at the expat spots, especially Silom, but I feel kind of old in the Ratchada or RCA areas. Most places where Thai gays go are not "gay places", but these are mixed places. I always had the feeling that bars that cater only or specially to gays are a Western import, but that has changed - just look at Ramkhamhaeng. I don't know the youtube videos you are referring to, but of course the older expat looking for a younger local (male or female) would be in the spotlight. The "bar crowd" is different, depending on the bar you go to, obviously... And Bangkok, with a population of over 10 million, certainly has bars for any crowd you would like to be part of.

There are all kinds of age combinations in Thailand. Do not worry too much about older/younger, go with the flow and you'll meet people.

[onthemoon]

I just saw that you are looking at Chiang Mai, not Bangkok. Sorry. Would be too quiet for me - I grew up in a big city.

In any case, I totally agree that you need to come over and "feel" the country and the people for a few months before making a decision.

[balo]

Before even thinking about making a decision to choose Thailand as your new home, you need to stay here for a few weeks, or months. Life can be good here but not every westerner will feel at home , even expats living here for years can feel a bit lost in this kingdom.

[thaicurious]

I have more questions.

Does anyone have actual stats or a sense of what might be the median age of expats in Thailand. When I look at youtubes of gay bar scenes, everyone seems kinda old. I always think everyone's older than me anyway as I've got Peter Pan syndrome, also no wrinkles yet but I got some age spots so I guess I could show those off. Is 50s a little too young or would that fit in with the bar crowd?

Also, regarding dating, is the scene mostly older expats with younger locals or do middle aged/older Thai people also date expats? Do older expats date older expats or do most of them head over to Thailand with the expectation of dating younger?

I was 28 when I moved to Thailand. So, no, 50s is not too young. But you have a wider choice of venues.

Ok, I am just over 50 now. I feel comfortable at the expat spots, especially Silom, but I feel kind of old in the Ratchada or RCA areas. Most places where Thai gays go are not "gay places", but these are mixed places. I always had the feeling that bars that cater only or specially to gays are a Western import, but that has changed - just look at Ramkhamhaeng. I don't know the youtube videos you are referring to, but of course the older expat looking for a younger local (male or female) would be in the spotlight. The "bar crowd" is different, depending on the bar you go to, obviously... And Bangkok, with a population of over 10 million, certainly has bars for any crowd you would like to be part of.

There are all kinds of age combinations in Thailand. Do not worry too much about older/younger, go with the flow and you'll meet people.

Yeah, I've always been more of a suburban guy. I do love cities but only for short stints. So I could see a place like Bangkok for a weekend but not for an extended stay. Even Chiang Mai, just from pictures I've seen, seems to have a lot more busy-ness than I'm used to, though I could see that level of distraction as being fun for a while, especially as it seems so accessible to surrounding nature where I could decompress.

Of the youtubes I've seen, I probably keyworded gay plus expat so wound up with what I did. But I did just google image the areas you mentioned. I'd have had a very fun time there in my youth. We're so lucky to be gay, super fun life, especially when we are young. It's the aging without having a family of our own that seems more the challenge.

I appreciate your go with the flow advice. I know it is correct but my brain tends to plan even though that never seems to work out "Man plans; God laughs."

[thaicurious]

Before even thinking about making a decision to choose Thailand as your new home, you need to stay here for a few weeks, or months. Life can be good here but not every westerner will feel at home , even expats living here for years can feel a bit lost in this kingdom.

Yeah, I would definitely do that though I'm not sure as to its value. I thought I would like my last move but after five years I find I don't like it as much as I thought I would. It could just be my age, transitioning into older age which is freaking me out a bit.

Fortunately though, I've always felt a bit lost wherever I find myself so it shouldn't really matter where I feel lost.