Immigration at Suvarnaphumi refused to give visa on arrival

[ALFREDO]

I have heard from many members and understand that, more of less, I just got shafted and can't do much about it without putting myself in danger. However, the second part of my problem is: before the end of the 30 days, if I got to an immigration office like in Pattaya, do you think they will still give me a 30 day visa exemption? Right now, that is the most important to me (my fixed ticket with Jetstar is for Oct 1 - Nov 29. If I can't get an extension, I face even more problems. Can someone give me advice on that?

Should be ok with extension.

You write in first posting "I am staying with my son in Chonburi and my other son in Roi Et."

These are Japanese sons? No Thai sons? You cannot get Visa using your sons as a reason for a Non Immigrant O Visa?

[Geordie59]

It was only a matter of time before something like this happened.

[Straight8]

if you have an iphone you should have been recording the whole thing then produced the phone just after he said "How much" and reported this.

Really? And what are the chances he would have been able to leave the room with phone intact???

I'd say less than 0.

[paz]

Clearly they should have sent OP back to where he came from given that he is not a tourist and clearly not interested in following the rules.

The officer took some risk and was benevolent at best for accepting OP into the country.

As for bad press? If your papers are in order and you are adhering to the rules, your visa is legitimate, there is no opportunity for this issue to occur.

So what came first? The chicken or the egg?

The apologist come first, especially when defending corruption as you did, winning the first prize for shame.

"benevolent".. ah!

[balo]

I find it hard to believe this story . A normal 30 day visa is given to any traveller without any questions asked .

But if it really happened I would report that immigration officer and would ask to speak to someone else. Corruption is a serious crime.

[paz]

I find it hard to believe this story . A normal 30 day visa is given to any traveller without any questions asked .

Not true. Virtually anybody can be questioned and refused, certain nationalities more than others, repeated out/in visa exempt, etc.

But if it really happened I would report that immigration officer and would ask to speak to someone else. Corruption is a serious crime.

When one is refused entry from an officer that has the power to do it, is not that he can talk to someone else. And if that next up officer is covering the back of his subordinate (for a share), nothing good will come out. Supposedly there is a process to appeal immigration decision but no details are known about it, for sure officers do not mention it and it has to be taken while detained. So people either flies out or in some cases pays up to be let in.

[needforspeed]

To late,

You have no prove at all, and you bribe a immigration official.

You should make your point before asking him if you could help hm.

You a guilty as the immigration official.

And because of this it will continue.

[bkkcanuck8]

And because of this it will continue.

Yes, all further corruption is all going to happen because of this OPer. No wonder foreigners are not liked that much - it is there fault

(the rest of the post I agree with)

[timendres]

Lesson: Never ask superfluous questions @immigration

This should be in bold large font. Simply walk through the process as if you cannot conceive of any possible issue. NEVER ask a question, and avoid conversation.

Only when someone asks you questions should you consider saying one word other than "สวัสดีครับ" or "ขอบคุณครับ". And then, you should be as innocent, naive, and polite as possible. The few times I have had to interact with immigration or the BIB, I simply spoke the little bit of Thai I am able to, showed constant respect, and acted as polite as possible. I have never had a problem.

[gigman]

By your action you just should be treated same as this "officer" .....corruption is on both sides ..."seller and buyer" this way next people will be affected same way.

It could cost you much less going back to any close countries to get full visa...

You should send a letter of complain to any possible office including new Prime minister...

To be honest next time I would use any kind of recording device on any contact with those people....IT IS EASY this days and cheap. (Any smart phone has recording software ...).

Satisfaction could be sweet. if you show him even sound recording after all.

[tenjinando]

By your action you just should be treated same as this "officer" .....corruption is on both sides ..."seller and buyer" this way next people will be affected same way.

It could cost you much less going back to any close countries to get full visa...

You should send a letter of complain to any possible office including new Prime minister...

To be honest next time I would use any kind of recording device on any contact with those people....IT IS EASY this days and cheap. (Any smart phone has recording software ...).

Satisfaction could be sweet. if you show him even sound recording after all.

Thank you for your advice. As you suggest, any time you are mistreated, it is a case of "even Steven;" you deserve whatever comes to you whether you are in the right or in the wrong. It takes "two to tango."

[bkkcanuck8]

By your action you just should be treated same as this "officer" .....corruption is on both sides ..."seller and buyer" this way next people will be affected same way.

It could cost you much less going back to any close countries to get full visa...

You should send a letter of complain to any possible office including new Prime minister...

To be honest next time I would use any kind of recording device on any contact with those people....IT IS EASY this days and cheap. (Any smart phone has recording software ...).

Satisfaction could be sweet. if you show him even sound recording after all.

Use of recording devices in immigration at the airport is ALSO illegal. Many on this board have said that you cannot choose which laws you will obey and which ones you don't obey.... as such if someone is caught doing said action the punishment could be arrest and deportation (blacklisted due to criminal record)

[namdocmai]

What did the OP exactly do wrong? I don't understand it totally. Having to many 30 day visa excempt is a problem? I really didn't know that.

Today i applied for 3 tourist visa's of 2 months, i am getting this since 10 years in row, but today it was refused to me at the thai ambassy.

The problem was that i didn't bring bankaccountpapers (they don't mention that on their website) but then i got papers from the bank around the corner and then it still was refused.

They showed me my last used multiple visa and the stamps that i used to renew that multiple visa. I flew to singapore and was back 4 hours later to stay another 2 months and do it again.

Some months later i also had been in thailand for 30 days so that made 7 months in thailand for this year and that was the reason to refuse me the visa. I could only get 1 tourist visa of 2 months today.

So my question is: where can i find the official rules for visa? I mean the new rules where it says that i need to show my bankaccount to get a multiple visa??

The persons next to me at the embassy were not asked for their bankaccounts because they were clearly tourists. I even filled in my address of my wife's house. We are married for budha only.

So if i tell them i want to visit my wife then i am not welcome in thailadn (for 6 months) but if i say i am a tourist it is no problem. That's the lesson i learned today.

But i don't want to have problems like the OP by having to many single entry stamps in my passport. So i want to read the real visa law if i can find it somewhere.

[paz]

What did the OP exactly do wrong? I don't understand it totally. Having to many 30 day visa excempt is a problem? I really didn't know that.

Today i applied for 3 tourist visa's of 2 months, i am getting this since 10 years in row, but today it was refused to me at the thai ambassy.

The problem was that i didn't bring bankaccountpapers (they don't mention that on their website) but then i got papers from the bank around the corner and then it still was refused.

They showed me my last used multiple visa and the stamps that i used to renew that multiple visa. I flew to singapore and was back 4 hours later to stay another 2 months and do it again.

Some months later i also had been in thailand for 30 days so that made 7 months in thailand for this year and that was the reason to refuse me the visa. I could only get 1 tourist visa of 2 months today.

So my question is: where can i find the official rules for visa? I mean the new rules where it says that i need to show my bankaccount to get a multiple visa??

First of all it seems strange that you've been give triple entry tourist visa in the region, because they have not been issued since years already. You did not even mentioned where.

Then, there are no official rules or laws. Each consulate do as they like within the established types of visa that exist from Ministry of foreign affairs.

For example in your case you cannot expect to receive a non-imm 'O' visa, because you're not married, but you can receive double entry visa in Laos without showing proof of funds. Each entry can be extended 30 days making 6 months total in country.

[namdocmai]

What did the OP exactly do wrong? I don't understand it totally. Having to many 30 day visa excempt is a problem? I really didn't know that.

Today i applied for 3 tourist visa's of 2 months, i am getting this since 10 years in row, but today it was refused to me at the thai ambassy.

The problem was that i didn't bring bankaccountpapers (they don't mention that on their website) but then i got papers from the bank around the corner and then it still was refused.

They showed me my last used multiple visa and the stamps that i used to renew that multiple visa. I flew to singapore and was back 4 hours later to stay another 2 months and do it again.

Some months later i also had been in thailand for 30 days so that made 7 months in thailand for this year and that was the reason to refuse me the visa. I could only get 1 tourist visa of 2 months today.

So my question is: where can i find the official rules for visa? I mean the new rules where it says that i need to show my bankaccount to get a multiple visa??

First of all it seems strange that you've been give triple entry tourist visa in the region, because they have not been issued since years already. You did not even mentioned where.

Then, there are no official rules or laws. Each consulate do as they like within the established types of visa that exist from Ministry of foreign affairs.

For example in your case you cannot expect to receive a non-imm 'O' visa, because you're not married, but you can receive double entry visa in Laos without showing proof of funds. Each entry can be extended 30 days making 6 months total in country.

I got the triple tourist visa 3x2 months from the Hague in the Netherlands last year. I didn't have to show them any funds.

yes i plan to go to laos and also get married to stop all that visa-nonsense. I have been avoiding it for many years by flying in and out but i m tired of that. I don't want to be busy with visa-stuff when i am in thailand, i want that non immi O for married and can renew it at the immigration in Bkk.

But i was planning to fly in out thailand many times coming period untill i am married officially. How many times are we allowed to fly in out on that 30 day tourist visa? One wrote 2-3 times in row but where can i find those rules so i can learn them? I don't want to get conned like the OP.

But if i showed sufficient funds today i would have gotten the 3x2 visa again, the embassy website didn't mention about showing funds so i didn't bring any financial papers. In 10 years i never had to do that and it was not mentioned on the website yesterday when i prepared all paperwork.

First they made problems about the fact i didn't bring bankpapers, then the problem was that i allready stayed in Thailand 7 months this year. It was also no good that i renewed my multiple visa's by flying to singapore to renew it and come back same day. I don't see the problem with that because it's totally legal as far as i see.

They asked me many times if i didn't work in thailand, which i don't do. People next to me told them about their travelling in and around thailand and got multiple visa's without any problem. And i could only get 1 visa for 2 months.

Edited October 7, 2014 by namdocmai

[paz]

But i was planning to fly in out thailand many times coming period untill i am married officially. How many times are we allowed to fly in out on that 30 day tourist visa? One wrote 2-3 times in row but where can i find those rules so i can learn them? I don't want to get conned like the OP.

If you have a torist visa (that gives you 60 days not 30), there is really no limit. You can also extend a tourist visa or visa exempt entry for 30 days more.

[namdocmai]

But i was planning to fly in out thailand many times coming period untill i am married officially. How many times are we allowed to fly in out on that 30 day tourist visa? One wrote 2-3 times in row but where can i find those rules so i can learn them? I don't want to get conned like the OP.

If you have a torist visa (that gives you 60 days not 30), there is really no limit. You can also extend a tourist visa or visa exempt entry for 30 days more.

Allright but my wife says i can't extend the 30 days on arrival visa. Some years ago we tried that and they wouldn't do it but that might be changed as well.

I was happy by flying in/out of thailand every 2 months, better sit in a plane then in the immigration office waiting many hours on a small chair.

So there are no rules about how many times we can fly in/out and get a 30 day visa? So one can do that 12 times a year and be in thailand all days.

Then i don't understand what the OP did wrong. Why he didn't get another 30 day visa because he arrived by air?

[paz]

Allright but my wife says i can't extend the 30 days on arrival visa. Some years ago we tried that and they wouldn't do it but that might be changed as well.

That is called visa exemption not visa on arrival. It can be extended 30 days starting 29/8 this year.

So there are no rules about how many times we can fly in/out and get a 30 day visa? So one can do that 12 times a year and be in thailand all days.

Cannot do repeated out/in on visa exemption. So for staying long time one needs a visa and/or extension. Otherwise if there are breaks between visa exempt entries, that's OK.

Then i don't understand what the OP did wrong. Why he didn't get another 30 day visa because he arrived by air?

Again, that is not a visa, is a visa exemption. He got singled out and shook down by a corrupt officer and instead of holding his ground he paid up.

Edited October 7, 2014 by paz

[namdocmai]

Allright but my wife says i can't extend the 30 days on arrival visa. Some years ago we tried that and they wouldn't do it but that might be changed as well.

That is called visa exemption not visa on arrival. It can be extended 30 days starting 29/8 this year.

So there are no rules about how many times we can fly in/out and get a 30 day visa? So one can do that 12 times a year and be in thailand all days.

Cannot do repeated out/in on visa exemption. So for staying long time one needs a visa and/or extension. Otherwise if there are breaks between visa exempt entries, that's OK.

Then i don't understand what the OP did wrong. Why he didn't get another 30 day visa because he arrived by air?

Again, that is not a visa, is a visa exemption. He got singled out and shook down by a corrupt officer and instead of holding his ground he paid up.

Oh i see, i thought he had too many visa exemptions in his passport.

Well then i will also go for the extension at the immigration. So they don't give me multiple tourist visa's but instead want me to go to the immigration and pay them for extensions. I don't care for that if they were fast at that immigration and could speak english.

thanks for the explanation.

[Ajahnski]

First, a couple definitions.
"Bribery constitutes a crime and is defined by Black's Law Dictionary as the offering, giving, receiving, or soliciting of any item of value to influence the actions of an official or other person in charge of a public or legal duty" from Wikipedia, quoting Black's Law Dictionary

"Extortion. The obtaining of property from another induced by wrongful use of actual or threatened force, violence, or fear, or under color of official right." dictionary.com

By the facts given, Tenjinando (Mr. T) did not commit bribery. He should have either be allowed into the country or sent back home. The officer made it clear that he was threatening to expel him, but that did not have to do so. Make no mistake, he was using his official position (under color of official light) to threaten Mr. T. Of course, he didn't explicitly ask for the money, but we all should know that's not how these things work.

If the corrupt official had clearly stated that Mr. T must leave, and then Mr. T offered to pay in exchange for staying, then he would be guilty of bribery. (The problem is that the definition is worded ambiguously in order to make it general enough to be short.) Here, Mr. T asked what he could do to make things right, and it was the officer who broached the topic of money when he said "how much?"

I'm not an expert on this area of the law, but crimes must always be accompanied by intent. Mr. T had no desire to pay the money; my guess is that he would have happily filed the correct forms if the Thai law wasn't so horribly written. (I have a law degree. I can read most statutes almost as easily as I can read Harry Potter. The Thai translations of the law are so horrible that I often believe they are deliberately bad in order to squeeze more money from farang. It is also very difficult to find the Thai translations. There's no excuse for that in the internet age.)

The officer was soliciting a bribe, and (either simultaneously or alternatively) extorting money from Mr. T. It's time to stop blaming the vicitm.


Also, can anyone cite me a law that says no recording devices at airport immigration? I would seriously like to see that law, as I have resisted being extorted myself at the local immigration office. I'm considering getting a micro recorder cam for future interactions.

Most states define extortion as the gaining of property or money by almost any kind of force, or threat of 1) violence, 2) property damage, 3) harm to reputation, or 4) unfavorable government action. - See more at: http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-charges/extortion.html#sthash.FgvOr6Id.dpuf

Most states define extortion as the gaining of property or money by almost any kind of force, or threat of 1) violence, 2) property damage, 3) harm to reputation, or 4) unfavorable government action. - See more at: http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-charges/extortion.html#sthash.FgvOr6Id.dpuf

[bkkcanuck8]

First, a couple definitions.

"Bribery constitutes a crime and is defined by Black's Law Dictionary as the offering, giving, receiving, or soliciting of any item of value to influence the actions of an official or other person in charge of a public or legal duty" from Wikipedia, quoting Black's Law Dictionary

"Extortion. The obtaining of property from another induced by wrongful use of actual or threatened force, violence, or fear, or under color of official right." dictionary.com

By the facts given, Tenjinando (Mr. T) did not commit bribery. He should have either be allowed into the country or sent back home. The officer made it clear that he was threatening to expel him, but that did not have to do so. Make no mistake, he was using his official position (under color of official light) to threaten Mr. T. Of course, he didn't explicitly ask for the money, but we all should know that's not how these things work.

If the corrupt official had clearly stated that Mr. T must leave, and then Mr. T offered to pay in exchange for staying, then he would be guilty of bribery. (The problem is that the definition is worded ambiguously in order to make it general enough to be short.) Here, Mr. T asked what he could do to make things right, and it was the officer who broached the topic of money when he said "how much?"

I'm not an expert on this area of the law, but crimes must always be accompanied by intent. Mr. T had no desire to pay the money; my guess is that he would have happily filed the correct forms if the Thai law wasn't so horribly written. (I have a law degree. I can read most statutes almost as easily as I can read Harry Potter. The Thai translations of the law are so horrible that I often believe they are deliberately bad in order to squeeze more money from farang. It is also very difficult to find the Thai translations. There's no excuse for that in the internet age.)

The officer was soliciting a bribe, and (either simultaneously or alternatively) extorting money from Mr. T. It's time to stop blaming the vicitm.

Also, can anyone cite me a law that says no recording devices at airport immigration? I would seriously like to see that law, as I have resisted being extorted myself at the local immigration office. I'm considering getting a micro recorder cam for future interactions.

Most states define extortion as the gaining of property or money by almost any kind of force, or threat of 1) violence, 2) property damage, 3) harm to reputation, or 4) unfavorable government action. - See more at: http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-charges/extortion.html#sthash.FgvOr6Id.dpuf

Most states define extortion as the gaining of property or money by almost any kind of force, or threat of 1) violence, 2) property damage, 3) harm to reputation, or 4) unfavorable government action. - See more at: http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-charges/extortion.html#sthash.FgvOr6Id.dpuf

Bribery (giving money to an official) is not only a crime here, but also a crime in many western countries (it is one of a few laws that extends beyond national boundaries).

The problem is that the official was ONLY enforcing the current regulations.... but his wording let it be known that he was corruptible. The individual in this case took the first real steps and thus is guilty of bribery. Entering the country is not a right. The problem with your argument is that it was not "wrongful use of force" but enforcing the laws properly.

Extortion would kick in if the officer indicated that he was going to apprehend you for something you did not do and not release you until you settled up, or if they threatened violence against the individual etc.

He took me out and talked with me and let it be known that if he gave me a 30 day visa, he'd be in trouble: that meant he wanted a pay-off. I had no choice but say, "Is there anyway that I can help you for your trouble?" and he answered, "How much?"

Edited October 9, 2014 by bkkcanuck8

[blueyeshk]

I dont belive that's a real story but if it is u r just as guilty as him

[paz]

Bribery (giving money to an official) is not only a crime here, but also a crime in many western countries (it is one of a few laws that extends beyond national boundaries).

The problem is that the official was ONLY enforcing the current regulations.... but his wording let it be known that he was corruptible. The individual in this case took the first real steps and thus is guilty of bribery. Entering the country is not a right. The problem with your argument is that it was not "wrongful use of force" but enforcing the laws properly.

Extortion would kick in if the officer indicated that he was going to apprehend you for something you did not do and not release you until you settled up, or if they threatened violence against the individual etc.

It was extortion. For that not need violence, taking money illegally as alternative to punishment is enough. The apologists here are pathetic.

[Lindsay Summers]

You really shouldn't have paid the money!!!!

[bkkcanuck8]

It was a corrupt act of accepting a bribe which is just as bad as extortion -- both of which I consider to be akin to treason (selling your country for your personal gain).... so no I am not an apologist.... the officer should be in jail.

The problem with your arguement of extortion is that up until he accepted money the officer legally did NOTHING wrong. The correct enforcement action was to refuse entry due to multiple in-out already..... The officer said that would get into trouble - which if he was violating a directive by not enforcing the new rules -- is correct. He might have been looking for a bribe, but at no point up until that point did he actually say anything or do anything which is not correct.

The person coming in "read into" that statement that he could get into trouble as an opening to broach the subject of whether the officer was open to receiving a bribe to which the officer was open to the idea, and what it would take. As such the person has now entered the country illegally (since legally he should have been sent back) and he has bribed an immigration officer. What would have happened if he had not offered a bribe? He would have had the regulations properly enforced against him. Therefore the individual is completely guilty of bribery.

[paz]

He would have had the regulations properly enforced against him. Therefore the individual is completely guilty of bribery

How do we know "properly" ? We haven't seen his passport. Plenty of people comes in with repeated visa exempt entry and are fine, despite the hates spewing bile about them "not having the proper visa".

Is pathetic and sick to defend a corrupt officer that is used to the trade and can repeat his crime at will, compare to an unprepared person that was taken in a contingency and shook up.

Happy to leave the last string of apologetic verbiage to you anyway.

Edited October 9, 2014 by paz

[bkkcanuck8]

He would have had the regulations properly enforced against him. Therefore the individual is completely guilty of bribery

How do we know "properly" ? We haven't seen his passport. Plenty of people comes in with repeated visa exempt entry and are fine, despite the hates spewing bile about them "not having the proper visa".

Is pathetic and sick to defend a corrupt officer that is used to the trade and can repeat his crime at will, compare to an unprepared person that was taken in a contingency and shook up.

Happy to leave the last string of apologetic verbiage to you anyway.

The original poster indicated that he has at least 4 and the superior indicated that he had too many. I am pretty sure under current rules that 4 is too much. If you read the OP it is fairly clear they are enforcing the new regulations.

the officer called his superior who questioned the fact that I had many visa on arrival stamps but on 4 visas

Who is defending the officer, but you seem to be giving the person bribing the officer a walk on the same illegal act. Both should be found guilty.

[paz]

The original poster indicated that he has at least 4 and the superior indicated that he had too many. I am pretty sure under current rules that 4 is too much. If you read the OP it is fairly clear they are enforcing the new regulations.

There is no rule that limits or counts visa exempt entry. You can go around and around in defending extorsion and corruption with the pretense that is starts from law enforcement. Blah.

Opps I broken my promise, I'll truly leave now.

[JimmyTheMook]

Good Lord !!!

Certainly hope he wore a clean latex glove during the extraction.

Tokyo Rose

[andygrabill]

If you dn't want to report it yourself, you can report it to your embassy. If the get many complaints, the take it up with the Thai government.

I cannot predict the future, but unless you have many back to back entries into Thailand, (leaving and re-entering the same day) you should be fine for the extension. I have not seen reports so far of people being denied the extension, especially with a ticket out to their home country you should be fine.

In the topic "problems at Bangkok airport" there are 2 simular cases (I am one of them)

In my case had to pay 3000 baht and the other guy 2000. I arrived from europe and applied for a 30 day entry. Normal stuff. Had been outside Thailand for 2 months. Thats what I do, work 2 months, go holiday 1 month. No attachments in Thailand, no work and things like that. To many stamps they said, borderrun, visarun, bullshit stuff to refuse you.

Made a complaint about it at the embassy back home, they take it very seriously. There have to be a stop to this otherwise it will increase and it will cost us a lot of money. There is a website to where you can report it without entering your name:

https://th.bribespot.com/

Reaction from embassy:

"Regarding your case at the Airport in August, I forward it to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Bangkok. Thank you once again for your information. I wish to reassure the Thai Government's strong commitment to fight against corruption. Unfortunately, the official in charge at the Ministry is on leave. I will follow up the matter once again and keep you update."

Edited October 25, 2014 by andygrabill