Scott Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 An off-topic,troll post and numerous replies have been deleted. Please stay on topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samran Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 What Australia needs is equality. If Muslims can walk around, drive a car and enter banks etc in disguise them give the same rights to all Australians to cover thier identity if they want. Don't divide the country and allow rights to only some. If banks thought it was a threat to public and their staff safety, they would have banned it long ago. They haven't. So if an institution with the biggest duty if care to its customers and assets doesn't give a toss, why should anyone else? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simple1 Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 This PC sheet is a big cover up, it really sucks. If they want to live and work in the civilized world, adapt or leave, PERIOD! Like European settlers to Australia adapted to the way of life of the Aboriginal peoples, you mean? As a person of aboriginal decent I am glad they didn't. We now have the wheel and many other wonderful things they brought to my country. Islam is totally frightening and a whole different thing. I don't want it in my country. Off topic, Our country. Aborigines are not recognised by the Australian Constitution; have you signed up for the referendum on http://www.recognise.org.au Did you know that Section 25 of the Constitution, has yet to be removed from legislation and allows the States to ban people from voting based on race? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simple1 Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 (edited) This PC sheet is a big cover up, it really sucks. If they want to live and work in the civilized world, adapt or leave, PERIOD! Like European settlers to Australia adapted to the way of life of the Aboriginal peoples, you mean? As a person of aboriginal decent I am glad they didn't. We now have the wheel and many other wonderful things they brought to my country. Islam is totally frightening and a whole different thing. I don't want it in my country. Duplicate post Edited October 6, 2014 by simple1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses G. Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 (edited) What Australia needs is equality. If Muslims can walk around, drive a car and enter banks etc in disguise them give the same rights to all Australians to cover thier identity if they want. Don't divide the country and allow rights to only some. If banks thought it was a threat to public and their staff safety, they would have banned it long ago. What a load of crap. Banks have to answer to societal norms, just like everyone else. The problem is that those norms were put into play long before Islamic terrorism became a. international threat. Edited October 6, 2014 by Ulysses G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samran Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 What Australia needs is equality. If Muslims can walk around, drive a car and enter banks etc in disguise them give the same rights to all Australians to cover thier identity if they want. Don't divide the country and allow rights to only some.If banks thought it was a threat to public and their staff safety, they would have banned it long ago.What a load of crap. Banks have to answer to societal norms, just like everyone else. The problem is that those norms were put into play long before Islamic terrorism became a. international threat. Tosh. Banks do whatever the heck they want which is in the best interests for their balance sheet. I haven't seen too many banks of late trying to placate civil society post GFC and bail outs, but all of a suddenly they turn into kittens when dealing with burkas? Gimmie a break. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses G. Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 Yeah sure. Banks are going to ban burkas when it is not the law of the land. You have a great imagination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samran Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 Yeah sure. Banks are going to ban burkas when it is not the law of the land. You have a great imagination. Our national parliament thought otherwise UG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H1w4yR1da Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 Regardless of whether it's happened in the west yet, the Burka has been used my male terrorists in the middle east to disguise themselves and to aid in carrying out terrorist attacks. Just because 'it hasn't happened here yet' is no reason not to ban it. Better safe than sorry. I believe there should be no place for the Burka in civilized societies. It looks like many countries are coming around to this way of thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7by7 Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 Regardless of whether it's happened in the west yet, the Burka has been used my male terrorists in the middle east to disguise themselves and to aid in carrying out terrorist attacks. Terrorists of all varieties and ideologies in many countries have for many years used all manner of items, shoes, backpacks, suitcases, parcels, litter bins etc., to hide their bombs. Would you ban all those, too? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samran Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 Regardless of whether it's happened in the west yet, the Burka has been used my male terrorists in the middle east to disguise themselves and to aid in carrying out terrorist attacks. Terrorists of all varieties and ideologies in many countries have for many years used all manner of items, shoes, backpacks, suitcases, parcels, litter bins etc., to hide their bombs. Would you ban all those, too? All these blokes have an unusual need to tell people what they should wear, eat and do in bed. I understand now, they just want everyone waking round in the nude. Bit scary isn't it? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Credo Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 Regardless of whether it's happened in the west yet, the Burka has been used my male terrorists in the middle east to disguise themselves and to aid in carrying out terrorist attacks. Terrorists of all varieties and ideologies in many countries have for many years used all manner of items, shoes, backpacks, suitcases, parcels, litter bins etc., to hide their bombs. Would you ban all those, too? Those items generally do not mask the identity of the person. The burqa does. But yes, if you walk around with a ski mask and a parcel you might expect some questions from the police. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giddyup Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 Regardless of whether it's happened in the west yet, the Burka has been used my male terrorists in the middle east to disguise themselves and to aid in carrying out terrorist attacks. Just because 'it hasn't happened here yet' is no reason not to ban it. Better safe than sorry. I believe there should be no place for the Burka in civilized societies. It looks like many countries are coming around to this way of thinking. I remember a case in the UK where a middle eastern guy (can't remember the nationality) robbed a post office and killed a couple of people, then donned a burka, posed as a woman, and flew back to Pakistan, or some other hell-hole, no questions asked. They did track him down eventually and gave him what was coming. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7by7 Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 (edited) As said before, in the UK at least, in situations where a persons identity needs to be established or confirmed a burka wearing woman is obliged to uncover her face. As would anyone wearing a ski mask, full face crash helmet etc. So I fail to see how a burka wearing man could board a flight out of the UK without being identified. Passports of those leaving the UK are not routinely checked by UKVI, but they are by the airlines. But banning the burka because criminals may wear one to disguise themselves whilst committing their crimes is not going to stop the criminals; there are plenty of other ways of disguising oneself; from ski masks to stockings over the head. Would you ban all those, too? Edited October 6, 2014 by 7by7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giddyup Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 (edited) As said before, in the UK at least, in situations where a persons identity needs to be established or confirmed a burka wearing woman is obliged to uncover her face. As would anyone wearing a ski mask, full face crash helmet etc. So I fail to see how a burka wearing man could board a flight out of the UK without being identified. Passports of those leaving the UK are not routinely checked by UKVI, but they are by the airlines. But banning the burka because criminals may wear one to disguise themselves whilst committing their crimes is not going to stop the criminals; there are plenty of other ways of disguising oneself; from ski masks to stockings over the head. Would you ban all those, too? I found the article, more recent than I remembered. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1537414/Murder-suspect-fled-under-Muslim-veil.html There are plenty of crimes now committed by criminals wearing burkas, walking into a bank wearing a stocking over your head might raise a bit more suspicion than someone wearing a burka. You think? If I can't see the face of the person I'm taking to, I wouldn't serve them in a shop, a bank or anywhere else. Edited October 6, 2014 by giddyup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 I believe this discussion is about Australia. Stick to the topic please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7by7 Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 (edited) It seems, giddyup, that in this particular case mistakes were made at the airport and he slipped through.From your link Liberal Democrat home affairs spokesman Nick Clegg said it “beggars belief” that a wanted criminal could leave the country hidden behind a veil.He told the BBC Radio 4 Today programme there were existing powers for people wearing veils to be searched and urged the Government to issue “urgent clarification” on whether immigration or airport officials should carry out the check.......Under the 1971 Immigration Act, travellers can be asked to lift the veil at passport control, with the option of using a private room with a female official present.All passengers coming into Britain are checked, but those departing are often selected randomly. Yes, a person entering a bank with a stocking over their head will be subject to instant suspicion; but there are plenty of other ways of hiding one's face which would not arouse same, such as a full face crash helmet, until asked to remove it and refusing. Edit: Apols, Scott; typed whilst you were posting the above. Edited October 6, 2014 by 7by7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses G. Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 Regardless of whether it's happened in the west yet, the Burka has been used my male terrorists in the middle east to disguise themselves and to aid in carrying out terrorist attacks. Terrorists of all varieties and ideologies in many countries have for many years used all manner of items, shoes, backpacks, suitcases, parcels, litter bins etc., to hide their bombs. Would you ban all those, too? Do they use them to cover their face? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H1w4yR1da Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 It seems, giddyup, that in this particular case mistakes were made at the airport and he slipped through. Right! It must have been a mistake. It couldn't have been that the security officers were too scared of being labeled 'racist' for asking the Burka wearing killer to show the face.It'd be interesting to see how many burka wearers actually show their faces when travelling through airports. Not many I bet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H1w4yR1da Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 As said before, in the UK at least, in situations where a persons identity needs to be established or confirmed a burka wearing woman is obliged to uncover her face. As would anyone wearing a ski mask, full face crash helmet etc. So I fail to see how a burka wearing man could board a flight out of the UK without being identified. Passports of those leaving the UK are not routinely checked by UKVI, but they are by the airlines. But banning the burka because criminals may wear one to disguise themselves whilst committing their crimes is not going to stop the criminals; there are plenty of other ways of disguising oneself; from ski masks to stockings over the head. Would you ban all those, too? The Burka offers a level of protection that the other items of clothing you listed do not.That protection is the fear of causing offence to the wearer or being seen as racist, bigoted or prejudiced when challenging the wearer to show her face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giddyup Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 (edited) It seems, giddyup, that in this particular case mistakes were made at the airport and he slipped through. From your link Liberal Democrat home affairs spokesman Nick Clegg said it “beggars belief” that a wanted criminal could leave the country hidden behind a veil. He told the BBC Radio 4 Today programme there were existing powers for people wearing veils to be searched and urged the Government to issue “urgent clarification” on whether immigration or airport officials should carry out the check....... Under the 1971 Immigration Act, travellers can be asked to lift the veil at passport control, with the option of using a private room with a female official present. All passengers coming into Britain are checked, but those departing are often selected randomly. Yes, a person entering a bank with a stocking over their head will be subject to instant suspicion; but there are plenty of other ways of hiding one's face which would not arouse same, such as a full face crash helmet, until asked to remove it and refusing. Edit: Apols, Scott; typed whilst you were posting the above. A similar mistake was made by you when you said "So I fail to see how a burka wearing man could board a flight out of the UK without being identified." No, sorry, I was wrong I notice. Too quick to "pooh, pooh" my statement. Edited October 6, 2014 by giddyup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorgal Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 (edited) I'm curious to know the opinion a any woman in general. Till now all male tales... Edited October 6, 2014 by Thorgal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7by7 Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 Regardless of whether it's happened in the west yet, the Burka has been used my male terrorists in the middle east to disguise themselves and to aid in carrying out terrorist attacks. Terrorists of all varieties and ideologies in many countries have for many years used all manner of items, shoes, backpacks, suitcases, parcels, litter bins etc., to hide their bombs. Would you ban all those, too? Do they use them to cover their face? No, but they use them to hide their bombs. Suicide bombers aren't concerned about being identified afterward! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7by7 Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 It'd be interesting to see how many burka wearers actually show their faces when travelling through airports. Not many I bet! At immigration when entering the UK; all of them. As said before, in the UK at least, in situations where a persons identity needs to be established or confirmed a burka wearing woman is obliged to uncover her face. As would anyone wearing a ski mask, full face crash helmet etc....... The Burka offers a level of protection that the other items of clothing you listed do not.That protection is the fear of causing offence to the wearer or being seen as racist, bigoted or prejudiced when challenging the wearer to show her face. I have already mentioned two situations where a burka wearing woman in the UK is obliged to uncover her face for identification purposes; when presenting herself for a driving test and at immigration when entering the UK. Scott has reminded us that this is a topic about Australia, so maybe an Australian member can confirm whether this is the same there or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simple1 Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 It'd be interesting to see how many burka wearers actually show their faces when travelling through airports. Not many I bet! At immigration when entering the UK; all of them. As said before, in the UK at least, in situations where a persons identity needs to be established or confirmed a burka wearing woman is obliged to uncover her face. As would anyone wearing a ski mask, full face crash helmet etc....... The Burka offers a level of protection that the other items of clothing you listed do not.That protection is the fear of causing offence to the wearer or being seen as racist, bigoted or prejudiced when challenging the wearer to show her face. I have already mentioned two situations where a burka wearing woman in the UK is obliged to uncover her face for identification purposes; when presenting herself for a driving test and at immigration when entering the UK. Scott has reminded us that this is a topic about Australia, so maybe an Australian member can confirm whether this is the same there or not. Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samran Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 It seems, giddyup, that in this particular case mistakes were made at the airport and he slipped through. Right! It must have been a mistake. It couldn't have been that the security officers were too scared of being labeled 'racist' for asking the Burka wearing killer to show the face.It'd be interesting to see how many burka wearers actually show their faces when travelling through airports. Not many I bet! Trust me, as someone who doesn't have white skin, immigration officers both in Australia and the UK didn't have any issues taking me aside. The last time I entered the UK they accused me basically of having a false Australian passport. Australia have no issue pulling me over. I actually think they revel in being <deleted>. But hey, that is just my perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samran Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 (edited) I'm curious to know the opinion a any woman in general. Till now all male tales... Yes, some of these blokes, defenders of women from misogyny. Typing from Pattaya.You couldn't make this stuff up. Edited October 6, 2014 by samran 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halloween Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 Trust me, as someone who doesn't have white skin, immigration officers both in Australia and the UK didn't have any issues taking me aside. The last time I entered the UK they accused me basically of having a false Australian passport. Australia have no issue pulling me over. I actually think they revel in being <deleted>. But hey, that is just my perspective. Travelling regularly from Thailand to Australia, I get pulled aside regularly too. Didn't realise it was because of the colour of my skin. Should I use more sunblock do you think? Or flash my lily-white butt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halloween Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 IMHO the burqua issue is worthy of a referendum. If the people of Oz decide they don't want it in their society, we may be accused of racism, sexism, religionism and being uncultured bigots. Fair enough. If you don't like it, go somewhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samran Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 (edited) Trust me, as someone who doesn't have white skin, immigration officers both in Australia and the UK didn't have any issues taking me aside. The last time I entered the UK they accused me basically of having a false Australian passport. Australia have no issue pulling me over. I actually think they revel in being . But hey, that is just my perspective. Travelling regularly from Thailand to Australia, I get pulled aside regularly too. Didn't realise it was because of the colour of my skin. Should I use more sunblock do you think? Or flash my lily-white butt? Which wasn't my point. The bloke before was trying to imply that they are scared to do their job for fears of being called racists. They clearly aren't scared of doing their job and targeting whoever they need to.As for the level of sunblock you need to use on your your bottom, Thai visa has a gay and lesbian section. Perhaps you should go ask there... Edited October 7, 2014 by samran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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