NGO questions if the two Myanmar suspects are scapegoats

[ggt]

This question comes up with anyone familiar with Thai justice...

[JoeLing]

The problems with a cover-up is that by its very nature it is imperfect. Anything used in its construction could be challenged, e.g. Hannah's phone spirited from the police desk to the bushes around the Myanmar's lodgings. That needs explaining, which, by its imperfection, will bring in another challenge.

How do they explain the wounds on David's body, which are more likely caused by a knuckle-knife, than a hoe or blunt instrument? How do they explain two Burmese boys half the size of David, overpowering him, and without Hannah screaming? How do they explain a confession when neither of the two accused could hardly speak a word of Thai? How do they explain the re-enactment scene when neither of the accused knew where to go?

But the biggie are the two accused. How do they cover this before a Burmese official visits them? Only one answer; they will be meeting Buddha before they expected.

Is this justice?

I tried to find the article where the police said they found

Hannah's phone behind the Myanmar's lodging.

I thought they just said, they found A mobile phone

belonging to one of the victims?

[JoeLing]

I am a foreigner, I have lived n Thailand for six years now. I think am I moving away from this country of fake smiles and xenophobia. ......

Hey, try Japan.

At least, if Japanese lose face, they commit Harakiri.

If Thais lose face, some foreigners lose their head.

The big question for me,

How often can Thai people shoot their own foot without limping?

[eeeya]

I am a foreigner, I have lived n Thailand for six years now. I think am I moving away from this country of fake smiles and xenophobia. Spend my descent salary in some other country where I can feel safer as a farang then in Thailand.

Goodbye...

Looks like old mate took TV too much to heart

[Beetlejuice]

I wonder how they are going to answer this one?

This post nails it.

On the contrary Dr Watson, the only connection I see here on the two photos in the red circles drawn around some phones.

[lausie]

I know this is my first post, so forgive me, I've been lurking for a while trying to make sense of it all.

I feel like I'm missing a trick. These questions have been going round in my head for the last week or so...

1. Where is Sean McAnna now? Did he make it out of Thailand? I've read a few posts that suggest he's in Italy, does anyone know that for sure?
2. If he has made it out of Thailand, why has he not spoken out? (perhaps he's worried about the backlash re his chequered crim history?! But still, do the right thing!!)
3. Have any of Hannah's or David's friends spoken out about events leading up to the time they parted ways?
4. Why is the FCO / UK authorities not doing more [read: anything] to intervene or at least draw attention to matters? When Thailand knew the world were watching they appeared to step it up. If we stop watching, these poor scapegoats will be killed for a crime I believe they didn't commit and the real murderers will be free to kill again.
5. Why are journalists/news agencies either in or outside of Thailand, not doing more to highlight some of the many questions that need answering?

I've only ever been a visitor to KT, so really don't know what its like to be there long term, but if the police don't do the right thing, I certainly won't visit again.

[EASYDOGG]

Hell YES !!

Make them pay the price..... International Tourist should stay away and avoid Koh Tao all together....

Hit the Bastards where it hurts the most until they deliver the real goods......

David and Hannah along with their loved ones at least deserves real justice.... ??????

Be careful with this one LOS..... stop the BS and do the right thing for once.

It appears face is more important than justice to this country or corruption has likely ensured the real culprits are free men. I may be wrong, but what has the police and successive governments done to show they support a clean upstanding society? We are within our right to doubt them and out of respect for the dead they could ask for outside help to verify the evidence and charges.

Will that happen? TIT

[stephen terry]

The problems with a cover-up is that by its very nature it is imperfect. Anything used in its construction could be challenged, e.g. Hannah's phone spirited from the police desk to the bushes around the Myanmar's lodgings. That needs explaining, which, by its imperfection, will bring in another challenge.

How do they explain the wounds on David's body, which are more likely caused by a knuckle-knife, than a hoe or blunt instrument? How do they explain two Burmese boys half the size of David, overpowering him, and without Hannah screaming? How do they explain a confession when neither of the two accused could hardly speak a word of Thai? How do they explain the re-enactment scene when neither of the accused knew where to go?

But the biggie are the two accused. How do they cover this before a Burmese official visits them? Only one answer; they will be meeting Buddha before they expected.

Is this justice?

I tried to find the article where the police said they found

Hannah's phone behind the Myanmar's lodging.

I thought they just said, they found A mobile phone

belonging to one of the victims?

I'm not going to trawl back, except I remember reading a quote from a RTP spokesman that said they found Miss W's phone in the bushes. It maybe a misquote or a hasty cover-up to change the story, but it needs clarifying, don't you think? Which then leads to the next question. Why hadn't the immediate vicinity been searched for evidence, previously? Don't you think it was so very convenient? And why had the suspect not disposed of it in the sea? Surely the bushes behind his lodgings would be an obvious search area?

Now, how about all the other questions I posed? I'll add one more. Do YOU really believe these young boys brutally murdered Hannah and David?

[IAMSOBAD]

Amazing Dieland!

The new TAT SLOGAN.

Come for two weeks and stay for eternity... only in Amazing Dieland. The Asian Hub of Death.

[JoeLing]

The problems with a cover-up is that by its very nature it is imperfect. Anything used in its construction could be challenged, e.g. Hannah's phone spirited from the police desk to the bushes around the Myanmar's lodgings. That needs explaining, which, by its imperfection, will bring in another challenge.

How do they explain the wounds on David's body, which are more likely caused by a knuckle-knife, than a hoe or blunt instrument? How do they explain two Burmese boys half the size of David, overpowering him, and without Hannah screaming? How do they explain a confession when neither of the two accused could hardly speak a word of Thai? How do they explain the re-enactment scene when neither of the accused knew where to go?

But the biggie are the two accused. How do they cover this before a Burmese official visits them? Only one answer; they will be meeting Buddha before they expected.

Is this justice?

From what I know, Police are not supposed to lead the accused when they "re-enact" a crime.

On the news I saw, the Police clearly lead and showed the two "kids" where to go and what to do

and they did as they were told to do .

Now, how about all the other questions I posed? I'll add one more. Do YOU really believe these young boys brutally murdered Hannah and David?

Looks can deceive and I wouldn't bet they are innocent but knowing the system,

I'd say they are just poor sods from a small minority being framed.

[smokie36]

I wonder how they are going to answer this one?

This post nails it.

On the contrary Dr Watson, the only connection I see here on the two photos in the red circles drawn around some phones.

I'm intrigued Holmes that the two lads murdered ....then both raped....then murdered again....then decided to steal the phone....only to throw it in the bushes behind their hut later.

The only surprise in this case is the three weeks it took to solve wouldn't you say?

[LivinLOS]

The problems with a cover-up is that by its very nature it is imperfect. Anything used in its construction could be challenged, e.g. Hannah's phone spirited from the police desk to the bushes around the Myanmar's lodgings. That needs explaining, which, by its imperfection, will bring in another challenge.

How do they explain the wounds on David's body, which are more likely caused by a knuckle-knife, than a hoe or blunt instrument? How do they explain two Burmese boys half the size of David, overpowering him, and without Hannah screaming? How do they explain a confession when neither of the two accused could hardly speak a word of Thai? How do they explain the re-enactment scene when neither of the accused knew where to go?

But the biggie are the two accused. How do they cover this before a Burmese official visits them? Only one answer; they will be meeting Buddha before they expected.

Is this justice?

I tried to find the article where the police said they found

Hannah's phone behind the Myanmar's lodging.

I thought they just said, they found A mobile phone

belonging to one of the victims?

Bangkok post so cant be linked but clearly said it was Witheridge's mobile phone.. Stated by Pol Gen Somyot.

Google it..

[Tboy928]

Simple. Send the suspects' DNA to England where it can be compared to that on the victims.

As i sayd before , probaly UK goverment took their own DNA tests when bodys came home. What next they need do, send a offical down there, take their own DNA test on the suspects. . then we know for shure

[slim]

I lived in Thailand for 7 years. I left 4 years ago. I was glad to get out and I've never been back.

Of the many reasons I had for leaving was having to put up with people who were as thick as <deleted> who nevertheless thought themsleves superior.

Many Thais I found have this totally unjustified and unwarranted sense of importance - as if me, a mere Falang couldn't possibly understand what a Thai could understand,

as if fooling a Falang is childs play because we are in some way gullible.

This ludicrous stitch up of 2 innocent men will come back to haunt Thailand.

No-one beleives it.

The parents of the butchered couple wont.

I beleive the police who have "solved" this crime are to be rewarded.

They should be jailed.

Them and everyone else involved in this unbeleivable cover-up.

Lets hope sufficient pressure is put on the Thai Governemnt to allow for an independent examination of this case - thats if there's any evidence left that hasn't been adulterated.

[MikePhuket1970]

I lived in Thailand for 7 years. I left 4 years ago. I was glad to get out and I've never been back.

Of the many reasons I had for leaving was having to put up with people who were as thick as <deleted> who nevertheless thought themsleves superior.

Many Thais I found have this totally unjustified and unwarranted sense of importance - as if me, a mere Falang couldn't possibly understand what a Thai could understand,

as if fooling a Falang is childs play because we are in some way gullible.

This ludicrous stitch up of 2 innocent men will come back to haunt Thailand.

No-one beleives it.

The parents of the butchered couple wont.

I beleive the police who have "solved" this crime are to be rewarded.

They should be jailed.

Them and everyone else involved in this unbeleivable cover-up.

Lets hope sufficient pressure is put on the Thai Governemnt to allow for an independent examination of this case - thats if there's any evidence left that hasn't been adulterated.

I totally agree with you

[takkatan in the land]

thai police it's discredited far long time ago, all we have suffered them sometime know how corrupt they are

but this time they overpass their incompetence and they are getting exposed to the world media and opinion

I hope some day all people around the wold will be aware of what kind of police is ruling this country

it's intinity tasteless and unacceptable how thai police has been proceeding with this investigation

accusing always whoever is not thai first showing their despite and xenophobia upon foreigners

they are insulting everyone's intelligence with their constantly behavior of ineffectiveness and incompetence

they will never be able to restore all the extra and unnecessary pain they causing to the victim's families

[transam]

thai police it's discredited far long time ago, all we have suffered them sometime know how corrupt they are

but this time they overpass their incompetence and they are getting exposed to the world media and opinion

I hope some day all people around the wold will be aware of what kind of police is ruling this country

it's intinity tasteless and unacceptable how thai police has been proceeding with this investigation

accusing always whoever is not thai first showing their despite and xenophobia upon foreigners

they are insulting everyone's intelligence with their constantly behavior of ineffectiveness and incompetence

they will never be able to restore all the extra and unnecessary pain they causing to the victim's families

Be sure, the west knows how LOS works........

[Carrerakiss]

If you are suggesting the DNA was "planted" I trust YOU have very strong evidence, or are you just indulging in a bit of Cop Bashing?

I doubt, that given the international publicity surrounding these murders, the Royal Thai Police would take any chance on bungling the case.

As I indicated above, if you have evidence of wrong doing by our Police, I suggest you exhibit some Testicular Fortitude and bring it forward.

The female victims phone?

[Carrerakiss]

So many calls for an 'Independent investigation' involving an outside agency - obviously a good idea. But when did Thailand ever back off and admit to inadequacy or incompetence ? Get real - they never bring in 'outsiders' .

Get real? What about 2001?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/1952815.stm

A pair of detectives from Dyfed-Powys Police had been brought in to assist Royal Thai Police's floundering hunt, re-launching the inquiry for their man in September 2001.

They flew to the murder scene and later returned DNA evidence from the sarong used to strangle Ms Jones, and from other items in her £10-a-night Aree guesthouse room, for analysis in the UK.

In the initial investigations into her death Thai police arrested the hostel owner Andrew Gill, 33, after releasing a number of other suspects.

He had always vehemently denied any involvement in the death of the Liverpool University media and English graduate and was subsequently released without charge.

Their handling of the case has been strongly criticised by Ms Jones' parents Sue and Glyn, still angry no-one has been brought to justice.

In Ms Jones case pressure was brought because NO killer was found.

The RTP are capable of learning. This time round they knew they had to find someone to take the fall so as to make sure the case got closed.

Sly as a fox, strategic as frogspawn.

[greenchair]

It's also widely known that drugs are rampant on the island.. If anyone has any experience you can see clearly see that Montriwat enjoys a dabble here and there, as does McAnna..

​Many Thai's believe there was a meeting on the beach that night with a few people, including the son, possibly Montriwat and some unknowns, Sean may have been used to lure Hannah and then things went pear shaped..

The story goes the son was involved or knew what happened and he immediately told his Father something bad went down on the beach.. That's why you can see the Father at the beach wearing gloves, montriwat is also there... making sure to remove any evidence....

That's what I had thought. There were a bunch of guys at the beach. Perhaps sean who was friends with Hannah lured her down to the beach perhaps for some recreational drugs . David may have been with her or come abit later. A fight broke out and the rest is history. I think sean was there and ran when things got out of hand. As did the guy maw.

It is hard to believe 2 guys 21 years old in thailand only 2 weeks. Just sat at the beach playing guitar and went and did that. Rape,maybe, but not all that. Physically impossible, to be only those two.

[DennisF]

I really do hope that Sean has told everything he knows to someone in the media. His run-in with the bar manager and frantic Facebook posts really were the catalyst for all the conspiracy theories. Imagine if we'd never heard from Sean. I wonder whether this case would have be wound up much sooner?

Sean, why did you say the bar owner committed the crime?

Sean, what did you mean when you said the bar manager was the 'leader'?

Sean, you said that you were only guessing when you posted that David died defending Hannah. Yet you never said that you were only guessing when you named the murderer.

Sean, you made these explosive claims to the world.

What do you really know, Sean?

Tell the world now!

He's probably already sold his soul to the devil and his 'friends' plus these 2 poor Burmese kids down the river for i guess somewhere around £10k

Will just have to wait for the documentary...

Im afraid this is my suspicion too, threatening him was a failure so maybe a compensatory package worked??

Speculation but, he has been quiet and that is not a good thing...

[manarak]

A DNA test can take just two hours if Thai police invested in the new technology to solve this case faster.

So the only question is whether the suspects' DNA matches the DNA left by the murderers.

[balo]

Hannah's phone was planted, a friend of hers handed it in the next day, photo's on CSI La page. !

Who said that the phone found in the bushes was the girl's phone?

All articles seems to say "phone of the victim", and BangkokPost clearly say

"Police searched Win's residence on Thursday and found a mobile phone belonging to one of the two victims nearby"

So? Why not the guy's phone?

Yes if someone can confirm this it's more likely the phone belonged to David.

So we can end this phone discussion .

[englishoak]

Hannah's phone was planted, a friend of hers handed it in the next day, photo's on CSI La page. !

Who said that the phone found in the bushes was the girl's phone?

All articles seems to say "phone of the victim", and BangkokPost clearly say

"Police searched Win's residence on Thursday and found a mobile phone belonging to one of the two victims nearby"

So? Why not the guy's phone?

Yes if someone can confirm this it's more likely the phone belonged to David.

So we can end this phone discussion .

Because you said so ? righto

[bunglebag]

Simple. Send the suspects' DNA to England where it can be compared to that on the victims.

As i sayd before , probaly UK goverment took their own DNA tests when bodys came home. What next they need do, send a offical down there, take their own DNA test on the suspects. . then we know for shure

Also someone, be it an official from UK (though undercover) or even just a random concerned person covertly gain a DNA sample from Worat and / or other family members which could be brought to UK for comparison purposes (such as from a cigarette, cup etc)

[JoeLing]

.................

Lets hope sufficient pressure is put on the Thai Governemnt to allow for an independent examination of this case - thats if there's any evidence left that hasn't been adulterated.

Don't just hope, do something!!!

Sign the petition at:

http://www.change.org/p/the-government-of-the-united-kingdom-independently-investigate-the-horrific-murders-of-hannah-witheridge-and-david-miller#share

[thatswhatuthought]

Where to point ???

The guy in red is pointing at the guy jn white. As if to say ask him. The guy in white is pointing at the mansion on the Hill as if to say "The guy who lives there did it."

[JoeLing]

So many calls for an 'Independent investigation' involving an outside agency - obviously a good idea. But when did Thailand ever back off and admit to inadequacy or incompetence ? Get real - they never bring in 'outsiders' .

Get real? What about 2001?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/1952815.stm

A pair of detectives from Dyfed-Powys Police had been brought in to assist Royal Thai Police's floundering hunt, re-launching the inquiry for their man in September 2001.

They flew to the murder scene and later returned DNA evidence from the sarong used to strangle Ms Jones, and from other items in her £10-a-night Aree guesthouse room, for analysis in the UK.

In the initial investigations into her death Thai police arrested the hostel owner Andrew Gill, 33, after releasing a number of other suspects.

He had always vehemently denied any involvement in the death of the Liverpool University media and English graduate and was subsequently released without charge.

Their handling of the case has been strongly criticised by Ms Jones' parents Sue and Glyn, still angry no-one has been brought to justice.

In Ms Jones case pressure was brought because NO killer was found.

The RTP are capable of learning. This time round they knew they had to find someone to take the fall so as to make sure the case got closed.

Sly as a fox, strategic as frogspawn.

Well, in this case, let's hope the british police are capable to learn aswell.

[bunglebag]

A DNA test can take just two hours if Thai police invested in the new technology to solve this case faster.

So the only question is whether the suspects' DNA matches the DNA left by the murderers.

But they didn't.

Pol Lt Gen Kamrob Panyakaew, chief of the Office of Police Forensic Science, said experts in Bangkok were rushing to complete the tests, though each sample takes at least 48 hours to complete.

From an article in The Bangkok Post dated 28th September

AND he said this days after Mon's alleged DNA was allagedly cleared in less than 24 hours. Dodgy as. Total fit up

[LivinLOS]

Hannah's phone was planted, a friend of hers handed it in the next day, photo's on CSI La page. !

Who said that the phone found in the bushes was the girl's phone?

All articles seems to say "phone of the victim", and BangkokPost clearly say

"Police searched Win's residence on Thursday and found a mobile phone belonging to one of the two victims nearby"

So? Why not the guy's phone?

Yes if someone can confirm this it's more likely the phone belonged to David.

So we can end this phone discussion .

And as has been shown many times now.. Pol Gen Somyot said it was her phone.. The same ones theres photo evidence of her friends giving to the police the next day..

BKK post for source.