Alan Henning 'killed by Islamic State'

[Johpa]

Christian terrorists worldwide have done a lot more than bomb a few abortion clinics in the US; killed more than a few doctors in the US. I see you have ignored their atrocities in the other example I gave; the DRC!

Typical response from the hate mates; as are the subsequent posts peddling the same nonsense.

That is; "Muslim murderers and terrorists use the Koran to justify their crimes; therefore all Muslims must secretly support them. But that Christian murderers and terrorists use the Bible to justify their crimes is irrelevant."

As I said before; that some groups pervert their religion to justify their crimes does not mean that all followers of that religion agree with them.

The hate mates accept this when it comes to Christian murderers and terrorists, but wont do so when it comes to Muslims.

There can only be one reason for this; their hatred of and prejudice toward Islam and Muslims.

Terrorists who happen to be Christian are not attempting to impose a theocracy, and in fact, since the time of Martin Luthor, Christendom has moved away from having any theocratic underpinnings, including the teachings of the modern Catholic Church. This is a significant qualitative difference between Islam and the other major monotheistic religions. Orthodox Christian teachings may condemn me to purgatory in the afterlife, but not in this life as that is reserved for the Second Coming. And we are not talking about some fringe anti-abortion groups that can be counted by a few dozen members from a tiny number of churches and whose actions are condemned by a huge majority of adherents.

And this once again brings up another significant difference. And that is that the Jihadists and the Salafis are practicing an orthodox interpretation of Islam and are not perverting the doctrine. In the New Testament Jesus advised his followers to turn the other cheek while in the Koran the Prophet beheads those who oppose him.

I too find hatred and prejudice against individual Muslims to be abhorrent, but I find my fear and dislike and prejudice aimed at their theological beliefs to be quite rational and unfortunately that places me in the unenviable position of offending some people who I do like on a one-on-one basis.

[simple1]

More than 120 Muslim scholars from around the world joined an open letter to the “fighters and followers” of the Islamic State, denouncing them as un-Islamic. Some may be interested to read the translated 'open letter' refuting IS ideology at the URL below.

http://lettertobaghdadi.com/index.php

[samran]

Christian terrorists worldwide have done a lot more than bomb a few abortion clinics in the US; killed more than a few doctors in the US. I see you have ignored their atrocities in the other example I gave; the DRC!

Typical response from the hate mates; as are the subsequent posts peddling the same nonsense.

That is; "Muslim murderers and terrorists use the Koran to justify their crimes; therefore all Muslims must secretly support them. But that Christian murderers and terrorists use the Bible to justify their crimes is irrelevant."

As I said before; that some groups pervert their religion to justify their crimes does not mean that all followers of that religion agree with them.

The hate mates accept this when it comes to Christian murderers and terrorists, but wont do so when it comes to Muslims.

There can only be one reason for this; their hatred of and prejudice toward Islam and Muslims.

Terrorists who happen to be Christian are not attempting to impose a theocracy, and in fact, since the time of Martin Luthor, Christendom has moved away from having any theocratic underpinnings, including the teachings of the modern Catholic Church. This is a significant qualitative difference between Islam and the other major monotheistic religions. Orthodox Christian teachings may condemn me to purgatory in the afterlife, but not in this life as that is reserved for the Second Coming. And we are not talking about some fringe anti-abortion groups that can be counted by a few dozen members from a tiny number of churches and whose actions are condemned by a huge majority of adherents.

And this once again brings up another significant difference. And that is that the Jihadists and the Salafis are practicing an orthodox interpretation of Islam and are not perverting the doctrine. In the New Testament Jesus advised his followers to turn the other cheek while in the Koran the Prophet beheads those who oppose him.

I too find hatred and prejudice against individual Muslims to be abhorrent, but I find my fear and dislike and prejudice aimed at their theological beliefs to be quite rational and unfortunately that places me in the unenviable position of offending some people who I do like on a one-on-one basis.

I'm not saying you have, but others do....To chastise moderate Muslims as being a hairbreadth away from a terrorist ignores the fact that they do what most people who call themselves Christians do, and pick and choose what they believe and err on the side of the peaceful stuff and away from the fire and brimstone stuff. As a catholic I'm told that being gay, having an abortion and a few other things are a sin. Many Catholics just don't believe that and human nature would tell us that the same applies for moderate Muslims.

My point is there are probably lots of fascinating theological debates to be had (not taking away from any of your points that you made on the influence of theology in respective faiths) but to police this by having a carte Blache approach that a Muslim is only one step away from being a terrorist is the equivalent of saying it is only Burmese in Thailand who commit crimes and murder.

You don't turn up to a crime scene with two suspects and say, well x is a Christian so he must have turned the other cheek, so therefore y must have done it. You need to rely in evidence and due process, otherwise we are no better than Isis themselves.

[JockPieandBeans]

@ BATHIK

I meant Muslims who are currently taking over Europe. We've got to make them listen of they'll start cutting people's heads off right in the center of London. They are just one step away already.

Maybe you missed the news, but it has already happened in London. Making them listen, is of no use. They are capable of listening, what they are not capable of is understanding that they have moved to Western Countries and should abide by those Countries rules and laws.

gree, but why do "white" people are far less successful at protecting their kids from the influence of government education and mass media?

Its called Liberalsm.

I guess what I want to say is that success of Islam feeds on failures of western democracy and Islamic extremism is only a symptom of a far bigger, fundamental problem. We've got to deal with symptoms, too, but unless the root cause is addressed they would just keep popping up like late stage cancer.

Correct. hey have it down to a T.

[H1w4yR1da]

To chastise moderate Muslims as being a hairbreadth away from a terrorist ignores the fact that they do what most people who call themselves Christians do, and pick and choose what they believe and err on the side of the peaceful stuff and away from the fire and brimstone stuff. As a catholic I'm told that being gay, having an abortion and a few other things are a sin. Many Catholics just don't believe that and human nature would tell us that the same applies for moderate Muslims.

Moderate Muslims usually aren't as moderate as you would have us believe.

"The percentage of Muslims in Middle Eastern and South Asia countries who say honor killings are never justified is shockingly low (31 percent in Egypt, 45 percent in Pakistan). Support for the stoning of adulterers is more than 40 percent in Bangladesh and 80 percent in Afghanistan. The death penalty for leaving Islam is almost, although not quite, as popular as stoning."

http://www.newsmax.com/RichLowry/Affleck-Islam-Maher-Harris/2014/10/07/id/599105/

Edited October 8, 2014 by H1w4yR1da

[JockPieandBeans]

More than 120 Muslim scholars from around the world joined an open letter to the “fighters and followers” of the Islamic State, denouncing them as un-Islamic. Some may be interested to read the translated 'open letter' refuting IS ideology at the URL below.

http://lettertobaghdadi.com/index.php

Having taken the time to read the open letter you provided.

My observations.

To Dr. Ibrahim Awwad Al-Badri, alias ‘Abu Bakr Al-Baghdadi’,

To the fighters and followers of the self-declared ‘Islamic State’,

Peace and the mercy of God be upon you.

Might be my way of thinking, but the above quote must be right up there as #1 condemnation of a bunch of murdering bastards, regardless of their race, creed or colour.

During your sermon dated 6th of Ramadan 1435 AH (4th July 2014 CE), you said,

paraphrasing Abu Bakr Al-Siddiq : ‘If you find what I say and do to be true, then assist me, and if

you find what I say and do to be false, then advise me and set me straight.’

The whole article appears to me. To be more of a condemnation of Baghdaddi's interpretation of the Qu'ran rather than the atrocities that have been carried out.

Which to me seems rather bizarre, when the article mentions 1400 year old passages are only his interpretation.

Anybody alive today, regardless of what kind of expert they claim to be. Are only doing the same as Baghdaddi, giving their interpretation.

[samran]

To chastise moderate Muslims as being a hairbreadth away from a terrorist ignores the fact that they do what most people who call themselves Christians do, and pick and choose what they believe and err on the side of the peaceful stuff and away from the fire and brimstone stuff. As a catholic I'm told that being gay, having an abortion and a few other things are a sin. Many Catholics just don't believe that and human nature would tell us that the same applies for moderate Muslims.

Moderate Muslims usually aren't as moderate as you would have us believe.

"The percentage of Muslims in Middle Eastern and South Asia countries who say honor killings are never justified is shockingly low (31 percent in Egypt, 45 percent in Pakistan). Support for the stoning of adulterers is more than 40 percent in Bangladesh and 80 percent in Afghanistan. The death penalty for leaving Islam is almost, although not quite, as popular as stoning."

http://www.newsmax.com/RichLowry/Affleck-Islam-Maher-Harris/2014/10/07/id/599105/

And they are all pretty backward countries aren't they?

But we shouldn't get too high and mighty, a recent survey in Australia stated that sexual assault cases plenty of people believed it was partly the fault of the woman that the assult happened if she was dressed is a particular fashion and was under the influence of alcohol.

So these Neanderthal perspectives lie everywhere.

[happydude303]

This is my though on This, being an English citizen ... If Muslims are against this Isis then why Are they not going in to sort this bunch out, why are we. I think England should let them do what they want to each other, but what does get my goat is we accept there religion in England build them temples , even convert are churches into them , which I think is disgusting, but hay ho , but yet they will not tolerate any thing but Islam over there, to me this shows how they really need to change and come In to modern times and you know what this is my feeling and my point of view , and yes that is England freedom of speech and freedom of though. Maybe thats were we are going wrong and should not have tolerated it in the first place but then that would make England just as Backwards. Also the thing which upsets me is I do have a few Muslim friends which are good people but still you feel the resistance to them owning up to there responsibility and taking a stand against this, but hate it when we stand up for England and say enough is enough, ps love your neighbour, and love your enemy , if toe enemy strikes you on the cheek, turn the other cheek and let him strike that one and still forgive him , quoted from the greatest man to walk the planet Jesus Christ amen .if only man could really live by these rules what a wonderful world , but man being man we are weak , greedy and do things for man not for God

And just one more thing if these Isis lot are doing things that are not in the name of there prophet then they should be outraged by this and want to put a stop to it, as anything against Islam is a death sentence or am I wrong lmao. Now I must get back to waiting in a cue in the local government office In surin

Edited October 8, 2014 by happydude303

[simple1]

More than 120 Muslim scholars from around the world joined an open letter to the “fighters and followers” of the Islamic State, denouncing them as un-Islamic. Some may be interested to read the translated 'open letter' refuting IS ideology at the URL below.

http://lettertobaghdadi.com/index.php

Having taken the time to read the open letter you provided.

My observations.

To Dr. Ibrahim Awwad Al-Badri, alias ‘Abu Bakr Al-Baghdadi’,

To the fighters and followers of the self-declared ‘Islamic State’,

Peace and the mercy of God be upon you.

Might be my way of thinking, but the above quote must be right up there as #1 condemnation of a bunch of murdering bastards, regardless of their race, creed or colour.

During your sermon dated 6th of Ramadan 1435 AH (4th July 2014 CE), you said,

paraphrasing Abu Bakr Al-Siddiq : ‘If you find what I say and do to be true, then assist me, and if

you find what I say and do to be false, then advise me and set me straight.’

The whole article appears to me. To be more of a condemnation of Baghdaddi's interpretation of the Qu'ran rather than the atrocities that have been carried out.

Which to me seems rather bizarre, when the article mentions 1400 year old passages are only his interpretation.

Anybody alive today, regardless of what kind of expert they claim to be. Are only doing the same as Baghdaddi, giving their interpretation.

Reading other analysis, the letter is based upon classical Islamic cultural means of expression / communication. So the translation "Peace and the mercy of God be upon you" is a standard, shall I say, greetings, amongst all Muslims; nothing to be inferred.

People constantly claim there are no interpretations of the Koran that are applicable other that the 'Sword Verses" and they override all expressions of tolerance, peace and so on in the Koran. The author and signatories to the letter are documenting their interpretation & understanding of the Koran and Islamic jurisprudence and saying the actions and statements of IS are contrary to the practice of Islam.

The letter underlines that there are alternate opinions that are denied by so many, of how the Koran can be more positively interpreted & applied in the Islamic world. To my mind this is a small, but positive step in the right direction.

[H1w4yR1da]

To chastise moderate Muslims as being a hairbreadth away from a terrorist ignores the fact that they do what most people who call themselves Christians do, and pick and choose what they believe and err on the side of the peaceful stuff and away from the fire and brimstone stuff. As a catholic I'm told that being gay, having an abortion and a few other things are a sin. Many Catholics just don't believe that and human nature would tell us that the same applies for moderate Muslims.

Moderate Muslims usually aren't as moderate as you would have us believe.

"The percentage of Muslims in Middle Eastern and South Asia countries who say honor killings are never justified is shockingly low (31 percent in Egypt, 45 percent in Pakistan). Support for the stoning of adulterers is more than 40 percent in Bangladesh and 80 percent in Afghanistan. The death penalty for leaving Islam is almost, although not quite, as popular as stoning."

http://www.newsmax.com/RichLowry/Affleck-Islam-Maher-Harris/2014/10/07/id/599105/

And they are all pretty backward countries aren't they?

But we shouldn't get too high and mighty, a recent survey in Australia stated that sexual assault cases plenty of people believed it was partly the fault of the woman that the assult happened if she was dressed is a particular fashion and was under the influence of alcohol.

So these Neanderthal perspectives lie everywhere.

Yet another deflection.

The quote addresses issues such as honor killings, stoning of adulterers and the death sentence for apostasy.

And naturally, the apologist switches the subject to some unverified report that bears no relation to the subject being discussed.

[JockPieandBeans]

Reading other analysis, the letter is based upon classical Islamic cultural means of expression / communication. So the translation "Peace and the mercy of God be upon you" is a standard, shall I say, greetings, amongst all Muslims; nothing to be inferred.

I understand that it is the standard greeting. That is not the issue. My issue is that it is hardly a greeting that is appropriate to a letter of condemnation to a group of murdering bastards.

People constantly claim there are no interpretations of the Koran that are applicable other that the 'Sword Verses" and they override all expressions of tolerance, peace and so on in the Koran. The author and signatories to the letter are documenting their interpretation & understanding of the Koran and Islamic jurisprudence and saying the actions and statements of IS are contrary to the practice of Islam.

I am not one of them. I appreciate that almost anything can have different interpretations to different people. Yes the author and signatories are documenting their interpretation. Again that is not the issue. The issue is that both the author and Baghdaddi are expressing their own interpretation. Nothing more and nothing less. It is the hypocrisy of one side calling the other down because their interpretation is apparently wrong. Unless you are at least 1400 years old you cannot say with certainty who is right and who is wrong.

And the above still does not change my view that the letter was a condemnation of Bagdaddi's interpretations rather than a condemnation of the atrocities that are being carried out.

[BATHIK]

@ BATHIK

I meant Muslims who are currently taking over Europe. We've got to make them listen of they'll start cutting people's heads off right in the center of London. They are just one step away already.

Maybe you missed the news, but it has already happened in London. Making them listen, is of no use. They are capable of listening, what they are not capable of is understanding that they have moved to Western Countries and should abide by those Countries rules and laws.

I didn't follow up on that. The throat was slit, no actual beheading yet, and it was done by a London native, not an immigrant. Right?

As I was saying - people turn to extremism as a response to failures of their local "democratic" governments. Some just rioted and looted shops, others turned to imams. Same disease, different symptom.

Immigrants come to Europe for the money, they don't care much about local rules, laws, or culture and don't feel that they should - not the principled kind of crowd.

[samran]

To chastise moderate Muslims as being a hairbreadth away from a terrorist ignores the fact that they do what most people who call themselves Christians do, and pick and choose what they believe and err on the side of the peaceful stuff and away from the fire and brimstone stuff. As a catholic I'm told that being gay, having an abortion and a few other things are a sin. Many Catholics just don't believe that and human nature would tell us that the same applies for moderate Muslims.

Moderate Muslims usually aren't as moderate as you would have us believe.

"The percentage of Muslims in Middle Eastern and South Asia countries who say honor killings are never justified is shockingly low (31 percent in Egypt, 45 percent in Pakistan). Support for the stoning of adulterers is more than 40 percent in Bangladesh and 80 percent in Afghanistan. The death penalty for leaving Islam is almost, although not quite, as popular as stoning."

http://www.newsmax.com/RichLowry/Affleck-Islam-Maher-Harris/2014/10/07/id/599105/

And they are all pretty backward countries aren't they?

But we shouldn't get too high and mighty, a recent survey in Australia stated that sexual assault cases plenty of people believed it was partly the fault of the woman that the assult happened if she was dressed is a particular fashion and was under the influence of alcohol.

So these Neanderthal perspectives lie everywhere.

Yet another deflection.

The quote addresses issues such as honor killings, stoning of adulterers and the death sentence for apostasy.

And naturally, the apologist switches the subject to some unverified report that bears no relation to the subject being discussed.

Maybe in your world the term Neanderthal implies an improvement on the state of things, but in mine it is quite the opposite.

As for the reference to Australia, it was front page news a few weeks back. Your good at google. Look it up.

[BATHIK]

Terrorists who happen to be Christian are not attempting to impose a theocracy..

True, but maybe this inability to stand up for its values is what cost Christianity its dominant role in Western societies.

People naturally flock to power. Governments attract them with displays of military might and readiness to bomb anyone who gets in the way, and Islamists attract them sa dare devil rebels. What do Christians have to offer?

I bet the guy in these beheading videos does it to affirm his ultimate masculinity rather than to do any actual harm to the UK and the US. Killing a few people doesn't even register on ME violence map, he doesn't do that for the numbers but for the adrenaline high he gets from cutting people's heads of with his own hands and letting the whole world watch it.

Ironically for a religious person, he does it to enjoy the taste of "ultimate freedom" and inconvenient obedience to God will not be allowed to get in his way.

There are plenty of such sickos on the other side, too, just the means of expression are different.

On an unrelated note - in the first episode of the new season of Homeland there's an interesting number - after 9/11 the US had seven people on its "kill list", now it's two thousand. It sounds about right. What would be the number ten years from now?

[JockPieandBeans]

Talking about neanderthals

How would you describe these people samran ?

Are they " Extremist " Muslims ?

Are they " Moderate " Muslims ?

Or perhaps a group of Muslims in between that no-one really wants to talk about.

[harryfrompattaya]

David Cameron said Britain would do all it could "to hunt down these murderers and bring them to justice

When will you apologists wake up, the problem is ISLAM not a small group of 'extremists'

When will England fight back with Remember your leaders in 1936 with the Germans

England is doing the same with the Mideast States

[BATHIK]

When will you apologists wake up, the problem is ISLAM not a small group of 'extremists'

All this rhetoric manages to do is to turn a small group of extremists into entire Islam rising against you, a war you can't win.

[harryfrompattaya]

These despicable acts have been occurring for a while since the yanks entered Iraq and "gave them democracy" by getting rid of Saddam hoooray. Now look at the mess this Gung Ho attitude has caused.

These aid workers therefore know the risk, why do they still keep coming? What is in their head? While they may be helping the people on the ground don't see it that way and take perhaps a high level view of foreigners in their country how on earth can they be "Helping" when at the same time the countries they represent are dropping bombs on their land?

Once again the Americans is that the reason of beheading in South Thailand, China and Russia I doubt it Muslims just love to behead

Edited October 8, 2014 by harryfrompattaya

[harryfrompattaya]

UK cabbies wont be happy about one of their own being murdered like this....

Most UK cabbies in my town are of the same religion as the killers.

Fix their &&& do not take their Taxis

Is that to hard to do?

[simple1]

Reading other analysis, the letter is based upon classical Islamic cultural means of expression / communication. So the translation "Peace and the mercy of God be upon you" is a standard, shall I say, greetings, amongst all Muslims; nothing to be inferred.

I understand that it is the standard greeting. That is not the issue. My issue is that it is hardly a greeting that is appropriate to a letter of condemnation to a group of murdering bastards.

People constantly claim there are no interpretations of the Koran that are applicable other that the 'Sword Verses" and they override all expressions of tolerance, peace and so on in the Koran. The author and signatories to the letter are documenting their interpretation & understanding of the Koran and Islamic jurisprudence and saying the actions and statements of IS are contrary to the practice of Islam.

I am not one of them. I appreciate that almost anything can have different interpretations to different people. Yes the author and signatories are documenting their interpretation. Again that is not the issue. The issue is that both the author and Baghdaddi are expressing their own interpretation. Nothing more and nothing less. It is the hypocrisy of one side calling the other down because their interpretation is apparently wrong. Unless you are at least 1400 years old you cannot say with certainty who is right and who is wrong.

And the above still does not change my view that the letter was a condemnation of Bagdaddi's interpretations rather than a condemnation of the atrocities that are being carried out.

The interpretations in the letter are, in my opinion, a quintessential means of communication in Islamic culture. We will have to agree to disagree that the letter does actually condemn the ideological foundation of IS and its atrocities

[jacky54]

Another terrorist plot stopped, what will the excuses be, not real Muslims, tiny minority, they were on drugs/crazy or it's all the fault of western powers interfering in Islamic atrocity overseas? One thing that cannot be claimed is that the Koran forbids killing kaffirs or that beheading is not a koranic instruction.

Jihadi plot to attack UK smashed: MI5 seize Briton who'd fought in Syria amid fears his gang was planning a beheading

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2783689/Four-men-arrested-suspicion-terror-offences-series-raids-London.html

Edited October 8, 2014 by jacky54

[JockPieandBeans]

Reading other analysis, the letter is based upon classical Islamic cultural means of expression / communication. So the translation "Peace and the mercy of God be upon you" is a standard, shall I say, greetings, amongst all Muslims; nothing to be inferred.

I understand that it is the standard greeting. That is not the issue. My issue is that it is hardly a greeting that is appropriate to a letter of condemnation to a group of murdering bastards.

People constantly claim there are no interpretations of the Koran that are applicable other that the 'Sword Verses" and they override all expressions of tolerance, peace and so on in the Koran. The author and signatories to the letter are documenting their interpretation & understanding of the Koran and Islamic jurisprudence and saying the actions and statements of IS are contrary to the practice of Islam.

I am not one of them. I appreciate that almost anything can have different interpretations to different people. Yes the author and signatories are documenting their interpretation. Again that is not the issue. The issue is that both the author and Baghdaddi are expressing their own interpretation. Nothing more and nothing less. It is the hypocrisy of one side calling the other down because their interpretation is apparently wrong. Unless you are at least 1400 years old you cannot say with certainty who is right and who is wrong.

And the above still does not change my view that the letter was a condemnation of Bagdaddi's interpretations rather than a condemnation of the atrocities that are being carried out.

The interpretations in the letter are, in my opinion, a quintessential means of communication in Islamic culture. We will have to agree to disagree that the letter does actually condemn the ideological foundation of IS and its atrocities

Simple 1. you are indeed are entitled to your opinion. I have no issues with that.

Of course we can agree to disagree. That is the essence of reasonable debate.

[jacky54]

When will you apologists wake up, the problem is ISLAM not a small group of 'extremists'

All this rhetoric manages to do is to turn a small group of extremists into entire Islam rising against you, a war you can't win.

This war has been on and off for the past 1400 years and it's a war civilisation must win, the thought of losing it is too awful to contemplate.

[BATHIK]

For most of those 1400 years "civilization" wasn't aware it was at war with Islam, though.

And it wasn't, it's the modern day crusaders who signed us all up. Ten years ago everyone thought Bush was mad, now it's "Go America" all over again. Memories are short and people never learn.

[BATHIK]

Thought it would be interesting:

11 point guidelines for journalists working on IS territory:

http://i100.independent.co.uk/article/isis-releases-11point-guide-for-journalists--lkyMOuuhHl

[7by7]

But somehow my observations of the broader debate make me an apologist.

More like a naive liberal than an apologist, IMO. Apologists are purposely lying and distorting the truth.

You and your mates have called me an apologist many times in various topics.

Are you now admitting that you are calling me a liar and a distorter of the truth?

[7by7]

<snip>

So who is the rabid dill around here?

I think the one who sides with killers of the innocent at ever opportunity, don't you..?

So who is that, then?

I don't recall any posts from anyone siding with killers of the innocent; none at all, let alone at every opportunity!

Edited October 9, 2014 by 7by7

[JockPieandBeans]

Lets have a look at your bullet points 7x7

But I will accept your word if you say you believe that

• the majority of British Muslims are as peace loving as the next, non Muslim, person;
• that the majority of British Muslims do not support, indeed abhor, IS and their activities and aims;
• that those who speak out publicly against IS and other Islamist extremists speak for the majority of British Muslims;
• that the majority of British Muslims are not jihadists wishing to establish a worldwide caliphate;
• that the majority of British Muslims do not wish to impose Sharia law in the UK nor turn the UK into a Muslim state.

A lot of claims in your bullet points, and nothing to back them up. The reason that there is nothing to back them up is that the information on the points you raised is not known. Not by you, me or anyone else. Therefore what you are presenting is nothing more than your OPINION. Of course, if you personally have carried out scientific studies to back up your claims, feel free to present your findings to the rest of us.

Perhaps you would like to give us your opinion on this video

How would you describe these people ?

Are they " Extremist " Muslims ?

Are they " Moderate " Muslims ?

Or perhaps a group of Muslims in between that no-one really wants to talk about.

[Scott]

A large number of posts and replies have been removed. Numerous are inflammatory, others are off-topic. Please keep the discussion civil.

[7by7]

Lets have a look at your bullet points 7x7

But I will accept your word if you say you believe that

• the majority of British Muslims are as peace loving as the next, non Muslim, person;
• that the majority of British Muslims do not support, indeed abhor, IS and their activities and aims;
• that those who speak out publicly against IS and other Islamist extremists speak for the majority of British Muslims;
• that the majority of British Muslims are not jihadists wishing to establish a worldwide caliphate;
• that the majority of British Muslims do not wish to impose Sharia law in the UK nor turn the UK into a Muslim state.

A lot of claims in your bullet points, and nothing to back them up. The reason that there is nothing to back them up is that the information on the points you raised is not known. Not by you, me or anyone else. Therefore what you are presenting is nothing more than your OPINION. Of course, if you personally have carried out scientific studies to back up your claims, feel free to present your findings to the rest of us.

I, and others, have provided many, many links to and quotes from Muslim spokespeople, such as the MCB, Imams and ordinary Muslims with which to back up my claims.

Including this video;

a campaign which is spreading worldwide among young Muslims:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ri21Mx9RDBw

Do you, as others have done, dismiss what they are saying as lies?

There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever to show that the majority of British Muslims do support, in anyway shape or form, IS or any other extremist group; all the evidence shows the opposite.

Of course, if you think that they do, or anyone else who thinks that they do, has carried out scientific studies to back up your claims, feel free to present your findings to the rest of us!

Perhaps you would like to give us your opinion on this video

How would you describe these people ?

Are they " Extremist " Muslims ?

Are they " Moderate " Muslims ?

Or perhaps a group of Muslims in between that no-one really wants to talk about.

I have never denied that there are extremist Muslim groups in the UK; neither have I ever supported what they have to say.

I will say, though, that like everyone in the UK, they have the right to protest; as long as they stay within the law. That is, and should be, a right enjoyed by all, from Islamists to the EDL.

This right is one of the fundamental freedoms we enjoy in the UK, one I personally cherish; even when I completely disagree with what the protesters have to say.