Thailand beach murders: Police defend bizarre public 'reconstruction' of slayings by suspects

[chiang mai]

The FCO or some one from the British embassy should be present as the crimes were commited against uk citizens,to ensure that the DNA was taken in proper clinical surroundings.

So the families of the deceased know that the persons I being charged are the correct persons.

All I want for my daughter is justice and the correct justice not scape goats that conveniently wrap the case up.

Says who and where is that legislated and accepted?

[Lozza]

Independent forensic examination isthe only way to getat the truth here

Exactly, I'd bet it's all missing or contaminated.

[Docno]

Never mind boiling water - this whole farcical debacle makes my blood boil.

There is SO much evidence to suggest that these 2 migrant workers are NOT the killers, that I'm surprised that some international agency hasn't stepped in to set this to rights.

However - the DNA samples will have been tampered with by now - there's probably no real way of getting things verified properly.

Oh God in heaven above - please bring justice to this case - expose the truth and in the process, please help Thailand to WAKE THE HECK UP!!!!!!!!!!

If you commit a crime, you must pay the consequences. You may think you can escape scot-free right now - but believe you me, it will always come around in the end.

But hey - the Thai's know that, right?

They're Buddhist, so they must. They live by the laws of Karma, which they believe in stoically, right?

Someone? Anyone? Please tell me I'm right??!

"However - the DNA samples will have been tampered with by now - there's probably no real way of getting things verified properly."

Is this really the case? The original suspect samples were sent to Singapore before these Burmese men were arrested (I think!). So there should be 'clean' samples/data available. The question still unanswered is whether the DNA of these three men have really been checked against the original samples and/or whether the samples were really a match as reported. This could all be cleared up by sending the Burmese men's DNA samples to Singapore for checking against the earlier suspect samples. A simple public report from the Singapore lab after such a check would eliminate all doubt.

[bowerboy]

Sorry to belabour the point but in the crime pictures the deceased females face has been completely destroyed...smashed to peices and her head entirely caved in (she has been struck repeatedly over and over again in pure rage and total loss of control)....in stark contrast the deceased male has been killed with 2 or 3 simple blows to the back/side of the head and his face is completely intact as if he is almost sleeping....apart from the wounds in the back of his head he looks absolutely untouched.

The contrast is striking and in my opinion hugely significant....i hate armchair detectives but this particular scene is just inescapable.

No way in this world was this committed by those Burmese on a whim. The way the girls face was utterly destroyed is symbolic of something far far different to simple sexual desire....this is someone used to having his own way denied something he wanted with probably a huge loss of face added to the mix and an ample does of xenophobia and entitlment.

[Lozza]

I just saw the crime scene pictures on line showing the full wounds and full gravity of the attack.

This was VICIOUS, absolutely brutal....you need to see the pictures in order to really understand this crime...

It is simply beyond all comprehension that these Burmese guys could of done this. The verocity of the attack (especially on the poor deceased lady) is horrific...the pictures would indicate she was killed out of pure rage and hatred and he was killed for convenience.

Could you give me a hint.

[JOC]

..this should be the case to once and for all show the corruption and ineptitude of the Thai authorities I believe people should boycott visiting the island until the case is reopened and done properly and honestly.

Do you really think the corruption and the rot in the policeforce are confined to Koh Tao??

NO, it is sadly a picture of the whole country.

At the present speed, Thailand is heading towards being a failed state, smiling their fake smiles, as they are falling off the cliff.

And the really sad thing here, is that the outcome of this case wouldn't have been any different under any of the previous governments, because the real master here is corruption!!

[chiang mai]

Sorry to belabour the point but in the crime pictures the deceased females face has been completely destroyed...smashed to peices and her head entirely caved in (she has been struck repeatedly over and over again in pure rage and total loss of control)....in stark contrast the deceased male has been killed with 2 or 3 simple blows to the back/side of the head and his face is completely intact as if he is almost sleeping....apart from the wounds in the back of his head he looks absolutely untouched.

The contrast is striking and in my opinion hugely significant....i hate armchair detectives but this particular scene is just inescapable.

No way in this world was this committed by those Burmese on a whim. The way the girls face was utterly destroyed is symbolic of something far far different to simple sexual desire....this is someone used to having his own way denied something he wanted with probably a huge loss of face added to the mix and an ample does of xenophobia and entitlment.

And your degrees and experience in forensic medicine and psychiatry are from?

[ratcatcher]

The Sky News reporter who stepped in to her own story should be ashamed of herself.

A reporter with shame? No such thing Jennifer

And so should every expat who remains in Thailand and supports the regime. Oh how you so easily berate others and yet do nothing tangible yourself to improve the situation... your money ultimately fuels their corrupt system.

Some of us, if you'd care to ingest, live happily here, are happily married, are respected, and don't go around flaunting 'farangisms', nor go to islands we know of, because of the dangers that we know are potentially hazardous.

To simply suggest that we 'support' the regime is utterly ridiculous.

As for our fuelling the corrupt system? THAT is itself self-supporting, and nothing to do whatsoever with caucasians, nor others from other countries living here - it is self-sufficient as it stands.

Tangible is what one pursues and perceives. Such tangibles, as initially perceived, sometimes go wrong, as a result of others' individual behaviour.

Are you trying to suggest that such murders do not happen in any country, as all within that country are perfect? Bizarre.

It is not for foreigners to improve upon this situation, it is governmental. That is the regime level, and most farang do not support as such.

I berate you, for insulting those of us who live happily here, and never even risk our lives. It is for foreign governments to postulate warnings about travel, a party to which we do not partake, especially those of us who have lived here for a long time.

An excellent post and I could not have stated it in a more succinct way.

For some days now Suffinator has been whingeing that all expats living here should end their residence here, regardless of how many years they've been here and how many commitments they've made financially and emotionally.

Every single expat of sound mind, as well as most informed Thais, is alarmed and disgusted by the poor way that this whole case has been handled from day one.

But to naively suggest that we all somehow up sticks and move back to wherever we came from is stupid to say the least. Unless he's been living here out of a suitcase in a hotel, I wonder if he realizes the absurdity of his comments.

Many expats here complain about Obama's America or Cameron's United Kingdom, same with our Australian mates etc.

I can appreciate his anger and disgust with the system he's seen in operation, but beyond that it is only a matter of time before we read about the next murder here and in England, the USA, Canada, and just about anywhere people live side by side. It's called life and death.

[SPB65]

If this is proven to be a set up then I think the world will shame Thailand to the point that no one will want to go there.

Agreed but Thailand has always been shameless and it doesn't give a hoot what anyone else really thinks. It's always been a ridiculous country but people will keep coming back as long as the seas stay warm, the food tasty, the girls available, the boutique hotels cheap etc etc.......They're stupid but not too stupid to know what people really want and that people will keep coming back for more no matter what goes on here. That said, I've had my fill of it all thank you very much.

[boomerangutang]

They always do these 'reenactments' with murder cases. It is totally normal here but they showed complete lack of self awareness by doing one for such a sesntive and internationally scrutinized case.

Not even most Thais are fooled by this. It is unbelievable.

I don't know about 'most Thais', but a Thai friend I know on the island does not believe the police and did say that many people on the island feel the same.

One proof that locals knew the Burmese were innocent was the fact that none of them yelled or threw things or tried to attack the Burmese when they were in plain sight. If locals had thought they were guilty, they would have made it known loud and rowdy, as Thais are known to do in re-enactments of lesser crimes.

The re-enactment was farcial to the 10th degree. The two 'suspects' were physically controlled like hand puppets through every motion. A real re-enactment would have had the suspects re-enacting their movements during the crime. The suspects couldn't do that, because they didn't do the crime. So the cops had to micro-direct the proceedings. Shameful. The entire police force should tear their stripes off their shirts and collars in shame.

[JOC]

RTP plant drugs all the time on people stopped at RTP check points...for a few thousand Baht. How hard is it to believe that they would not cover up a rich mans sons crime for millions of Baht.

In ten years here full time and a further ten years part time, I've never had that happen to me, never seen it happen to anyone else and never heard of it happening to anyone, not even family members in the village. Are you sure you're OK!

And you haven't been killed, so there are no murders in Thailand??

[JohnThailandJohn]

Please, can a real journalist look into a few basic questions and publish in a major newspaper?

1. Is it true that the victim's phone was handed over to police by her friend the day after the murder? Is this is same phone the police claim was found behind the room belonging to the suspects?

2. Since the suspects worked at the very same bar that the victims were at that night, and since they didn't flee, how is it possible that the initial blanket DNA tests did not find a match?!?

3. Is it true that relatives of prominent families on the island were exempted from giving DNA? If so, why? What law requires poor people to give DNA, but excuses rich people.

I know there are many, many more unanswered questions, but these stand out for me.

I would happily donate to a legal fund for defense for these guys. Perhaps an NGO can set that up here?

Not sure why try to answer these when you and others will go right back to facebook and come up with other conspiracy theories based on incorrect or unknown information.

The phone they found said belonged to one of the victims. Obviously it is not the same phone police police received, spoke about and is showed publicly at the start of the case. It may be his his phone or her 2nd Thai/UK phone.

The suspect didn't work at the bar.

No suspect was excluded from DNA testing. A son of a rich family who was not on the island at the time may or may have not been tested after police confirmed he wasn't on the island. The did dna testing on who they believed had the best chance being involved.

Despite their tactics, it appears based on numerous things, especially dna, they have caught the culprits. For many it is hard to accept because they maybe are not Thai or it wasn't a rich established Thai family on a killing/rape spree or it didn't fit what ever theory they were convinced happened or simply because jumping on a conspiracy bandwagon makes them feel good.

Edited October 4, 2014 by JohnThailandJohn

[Maestro]

I would say very clearly thats a phone inside a leather 'folio' case.. Looks like an Iphone 4 or 5 to me.

Identical objects, an iPhone 4 or 5?

[chiang mai]

RTP plant drugs all the time on people stopped at RTP check points...for a few thousand Baht. How hard is it to believe that they would not cover up a rich mans sons crime for millions of Baht.

In ten years here full time and a further ten years part time, I've never had that happen to me, never seen it happen to anyone else and never heard of it happening to anyone, not even family members in the village. Are you sure you're OK!

And you haven't been killed, so there are no murders in Thailand??

You seem to have difficulty reading beyond the first half of the first sentence before formulating your response, unfortunate that!

[bowerboy]

"And your degrees and experience in forensic medicine and psychiatry are from?"

That is my whole point.........the pictures just tell the entire story...see those and this whole thing opens up as clear as day.

As gruesome as they are, and if you have any interest in this case, then you need to see them before casting any judgement....they provide utter clarity of the motivation for this terrible crime.

[boomerangutang]

Not just the UK embassy, but the Myanmar embassy should step up to assist their nationals. This case (and 5 innocents' lives - two Brits and 3 Burmese) is bigger than diplomatic niceties.

[kcirtapyelrah]

Please, can a real journalist look into a few basic questions and publish in a major newspaper?

1. Is it true that the victim's phone was handed over to police by her friend the day after the murder? Is this is same phone the police claim was found behind the room belonging to the suspects?

2. Since the suspects worked at the very same bar that the victims were at that night, and since they didn't flee, how is it possible that the initial blanket DNA tests did not find a match?!?

3. Is it true that relatives of prominent families on the island were exempted from giving DNA? If so, why? What law requires poor people to give DNA, but excuses rich people.

I know there are many, many more unanswered questions, but these stand out for me.

I would happily donate to a legal fund for defense for these guys. Perhaps an NGO can set that up here?

Out of compassion, for the families and justice for the accused, I would be prepared to donate. Any other prepared to put their hand up?

[peterbkk9]

Disgusting frame up indeed.

And the world has to know about this.

The world has to know what Thailand is all about. Rotten to the core.

[bowerboy]

This shocking story involved "British Couple Murdered in Thailand, Woman Raped"

People who use Google to find the story will see the shocking truth and should only cast judgement after searching for the story

[car720]

I have not closely followed the details of this case. It does make reasonable sense to me that a couple of poorly paid immigrant workers -- who maybe have gone without sex for weeks or months or more -- could be on the beach at 4 AM drunk and/or doing drugs and could be sent into a frenzy when they realize two farangs are having sex on the beach close to them with the resultant outcome. It does not make much sense to me that a wealthy Thai scion of the local bigwigs who can get laid any time he wants would have a similar reaction if he stumbles upon the same couple under the same circumstances.

... unless there was some scenario that the girl had been propositioned earlier by a wealthy Thai and refused with the resultant outcome but I don't think applies.

Have you seen the way a rich and/or powerful Thai behaves at any time? Also, isn't it time that everyone realized that they never have and never will give a damn what a farang thinks. They are the centre of their world and the rest of us are neanderthals, to them.

[bowerboy]

I am saying that in the name of justice and understanding...nothing else

[Maestro]

Removed an off-topic post and a troll post.

[petedk]

Police ( SOMYOT )now threatening to take people to criminal court for talking about this case.

dont criticise them or else

Source?

[Wan123]

I too, having been a resident of this island for an extended stay, have a deep feeling in my stomach, an upset, about these young men charged with this crime. Although it is not relevant, one of the boys was just so cute, his looks do not have the feel of criminal behavior; his had was adjusted and he was looking up with his eyes, he seemed so innocent; like he wanted to be noticed. This young man would be noticed anyway, so it makes me feel that he had no reason to commit this crime.

I too feel that too often, it is people with no ability to defend themselves that get scapegoated, while it is true that the rich and politically connected can buy their way out.

It would be terrible to blame innocent people for a murder, and I hope British authorities can come to some further conclusions. The pall of repression on such an island is unsettling for people interested in scuba diving.

[shimizu]

"And your degrees and experience in forensic medicine and psychiatry are from?"

That is my whole point.........the pictures just tell the entire story...see those and this whole thing opens up as clear as day.

As gruesome as they are, and if you have any interest in this case, then you need to see them before casting any judgement....they provide utter clarity of the motivation for this terrible crime.

Completely agree with bowerboy. You don't need a degree in psychiatry, just life experience, and some knowledge of the oriental mindset. The Asian male ego is extremely fragile, and once face is lost, can only be regained by completely destroying the offender, what seems to be the case here, rather than a simple rape scenario. The two arrested suspects, are socially too low, to fit the profile, I would say.

Edited October 4, 2014 by shimizu

[greenchair]

There must have been a precursor to the crime. Probably was a fight with David for some reason. Then escalated to rape. She was screaming, and beat with hoe. Two people not possible. Sean knows. Sean ran. Man up

[boomerangutang]

Not sure why try to answer these when you and others will go right back to facebook and come up with other conspiracy theories based on incorrect or unknown information.

The phone they found said belonged to one of the victims. Obviously it is not the same phone police police received, spoke about and is showed publicly at the start of the case. It may be his his phone or her 2nd Thai/UK phone.

The suspect didn't work at the bar.

No suspect was excluded from DNA testing. A son of a rich family who was not on the island at the time may or may have not been tested after police confirmed he wasn't on the island. The did dna testing on who they believed had the best chance being involved.

Despite their tactics, it appears based on numerous things, especially dna, they have caught the culprits. For many it is hard to accept because they maybe are not Thai or it wasn't a rich established Thai family on a killing/rape spree or it didn't fit what ever theory they were convinced happened or simply because jumping on a conspiracy bandwagon makes them feel good.

You would make the cops smile. You contradict yourself in two side-by-side sentences: The son of the Headman was NOT DNA tested. Did any of the 203 Burmese men have the convenience of declining a DNA test? No, of course not. Only family members of the Headman, who were PRIME SUSPECTS for the first 10 days after the crime. They would still be prime suspects if the investigation wasn't subjective and inept. As for the rich son's alibi: it's as solid as wet toilet paper. It rests on a very poorly photoshopped still from a security camera.

I would say very clearly thats a phone inside a leather 'folio' case.. Looks like an Iphone 4 or 5 to me.

Identical objects, an iPhone 4 or 5?

[img=http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/p-top.jpg[/url]

[img=http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/p-bottom.jpg[/url]

you may be comparing two different items. the item that appears identical to the phone on the policeman's desk (the morning after the crime) is TO THE LEFT of the little case, not the case itself.

[MrJohnson]

I feel great sympathy for these two young men. Their lives are over. Confessions made the case will go almost straight to sentencing and no need for evidence to be examined or analysed. A travesty. The re-enactment merely part of the circus of deceit.

[Wan123]

I too am concerned that these workers have had no legal counsel, can't speak the language and if a person were to be in position to be framed, it would be in a situation like this. While I would hope that the police are more than lackeys of the wealthy, on the other hand, I can say definitely that in America, this could easily be a frame-up and how could they prove otherwise?

[pepi2005]

Bizarre is also that so many policemen are filming the spectacle with their obviously private Ipads, mobile phones and cameras.

I could possibly understand if a police investigator documents the scene in case the theater scene could somehow reveal something of interest (whatever that may be).

But police officials (ab)using the reconstruction of the murder and filming the 'show' (it can't be called otherwise with so many onlookers present) most likely just for their private purposes (sang som evening with buddies playing cards, watching the clip afterwards gaping at the big spectacle) is a scandal and against all rules of decency and good police work.

I agree fully - this feels a lot like public distraction and a staged spectacle, while the real murderers may well be back in their (Thai?) communities for a long time. It smelled bad from the point when the police already 'identified' the killers as foreigners before they even knew any details.