Thailand beach murders: Police defend bizarre public 'reconstruction' of slayings by suspects

[loonodingle]

I don't know if anything can be done any longer but I urge any one of you here to do your bit and sign the petition.

https://www.change.org/p/the-government-of-the-united-kingdom-independently-investigate-the-horrific-murders-of-hannah-witheridge-and-david-miller

Tried to sign it and it didn't work. I wonder how many others it didn't work for

Hi try to go direct to www.change.org you will find the petition on there.

if you need to search enter this text

Independently Investigate the horrific murders of Hannah Witheridge and David Miller

Sending it to

This petition will be delivered to:

UK Ambassador to Thailand Mark Kent

The Government of the United Kingdom

This is the context of the petition

Knowing full well that the Thai authorities are notoriously corrupt and have in the past intentionally withheld and/or planted evidence in order to protect murderers that are well connected,and with accusations of police offering bribes to false witnesses, we are not able to trust that the two Myanmar nationals being detained have not had their confessions forced out of them and as such cannot trust that they are responsible for the horrific rape and murders of David Miller, 24, and Hannah Witheridge, 23.This being said, we demand a full independent investigation to be conducted by the government of the United Kingdom into these deaths in the hopes that the families of these victims may know justice has been served and that the deaths of two more possible innocents might be avoided.

[Luang]

I don't know if anything can be done any longer but I urge any one of you here to do your bit and sign the petition.

https://www.change.org/p/the-government-of-the-united-kingdom-independently-investigate-the-horrific-murders-of-hannah-witheridge-and-david-miller

Tried to sign it and it didn't work. I wonder how many others it didn't work for

Scroll to the bottom of the page, look to the right and you will see the language option. Sign and share with friends. I put it on CSI and thousands (Thai and Burmese) have since signed in the past few hours.

[Patsycat]

When i signed in it was almost 500 now it's almost 6000. That was just this afternoon, about 5 or six hours ago!!!

I shall send it to my Facebook friends and hopefully they will send and send and send.

Edited October 4, 2014 by Patsycat

[scubascuba3]

I don't know if anything can be done any longer but I urge any one of you here to do your bit and sign the petition.

https://www.change.org/p/the-government-of-the-united-kingdom-independently-investigate-the-horrific-murders-of-hannah-witheridge-and-david-miller

Tried to sign it and it didn't work. I wonder how many others it didn't work for

Hi try to go direct to www.change.org you will find the petition on there.

if you need to search enter this text

Independently Investigate the horrific murders of Hannah Witheridge and David Miller

Sending it to

This petition will be delivered to:

UK Ambassador to Thailand Mark Kent

The Government of the United Kingdom

This is the context of the petition

Knowing full well that the Thai authorities are notoriously corrupt and have in the past intentionally withheld and/or planted evidence in order to protect murderers that are well connected,and with accusations of police offering bribes to false witnesses, we are not able to trust that the two Myanmar nationals being detained have not had their confessions forced out of them and as such cannot trust that they are responsible for the horrific rape and murders of David Miller, 24, and Hannah Witheridge, 23.This being said, we demand a full independent investigation to be conducted by the government of the United Kingdom into these deaths in the hopes that the families of these victims may know justice has been served and that the deaths of two more possible innocents might be avoided.

Just signed, really good to see Thais signing also

[mrtoad]

The Sky News reporter who stepped in to her own story should be ashamed of herself.

She should be fired

[Trouble]

all of this Thai bashing, is really getting to be too much! Let the police do their work, and stay out of this! This murder, should have never been a topic, open for discussion on this forum. All of the negative bs from TV members has hurt the investigation, I am really embarrassed for some of you, you are really setting back, Thai, Farang relations!! How would you like it if foreigners came to your home country and continually insulted you, calling you stupid and worse. This is a everyday occurrence on TV, I only hope that Thai people are not reading these derogatory comments. Please remember, that Thailand is our host country, and that we are guests, and if we don't like it, then we need to go!

I will certainly agree that a certain amount of Thai bashing has occurred in relation to the murders. However, many on this forum who live in Thailand see everyday the real Thai society and culture and those of us who have repeatedly visited Thailand all carry away experiences from our visits. Sure there are those that see Thailand through rose tinted glasses.

Thailand is a third world country but sometimes appears outwardly to be a modern, 21st century nation. It is NOT. It's culture is rooted in a stratified society and during the 20th century developed into a corrupt, anything goes, society where the end justifies the means. We see it in the daily stories right on TV. We read about the scams suffered by posters and tourists alike. To the outside world and those unfamiliar with Thailand its biggest claim to fame is it's sex industry known by all to be the most prolific in the world. To those that follow the goings on in Thailand, and don't view Thailand with blinders, there is a power structure that is self serving. The coup that took place not so long ago just replaced one group for another. There is peace on the streets now but other than a clean up here or there, nothing will really change as too many people have too much too loose. I know too many friends that live in Thailand that really have blinders on as they just go about their daily lives, hanging out with their expat friends and seeing little of the real Thailand. I envy them their ability to be oblivious to the real Thailand around them.

This investigation, the press releases, and the way things were handled in general show complete lack of professionalism. The continuing comments by officials about the tourism industry being hurt only too clearly indicate what they feel is the true concern for Thailand and its economy.

There are lots of questions to be answered and hopefully there will be a thorough independent investigative effort. I do hope they have found the culprits but many of us have reason to fear that the police might just want the case closed ASAP and might just find scapegoats. I really hope this in not the case and that real investigative work is what lead them to the accused. Let the press ask the right questions, if they can. Let the press follow the court cases, if they will.

[phuketandsee]

Myanmar murder suspects escorted to Samui court for extended detention

KOH TAO: -- Two Myanmar rape murder suspects were this morning escorted by the police from Phangan island to Samui island for permission from the court to detain them 12 more days for further questioning.

Win or Wepew, 21, and Cholin or Soren, 21, both of Arakanese ethnics, were handcuffed and taken on board a speed boat from Phangan island to Koh Samui under protection by about 10 police, both in uniforms and plainclothes.

The travel to Ban Nathon pier on Samui took three hours. Both were later put in car to the Samui provincial court.

The police sought 12 days from the court to further detain the two suspects with reason that the 48 hours allowed by law to detain them has expired while they still needed more time for questioning.

The police said they would officially indict the two suspects on October 8.
The two suspects were seen to be very exhausted as they have been questioned throughout the night.

While at Samui police station, Win, a prime suspect, who spoke little Thai as he has been working on Koh Tao for three years, admitted to the murder of David miller and raping and killing of Ms Hannah Witheridge.

Another suspect, Mao, was not escorted to the court today as the police have booked him as the witness to the case.

Mao was playing guitar with the two suspects but left to see his girlfriend before the murder took place.

Earlier he was also charged, but after the two confirmed he was not involved, and DNA test did not match the samples collected on the victim’s body, the police freed him but still kept him as witness.

http://www.thaivisa....tion/?p=8484841

More questioning?? After confessions and re-enactment?

Still any doubters out there?

[Luang]

all of this Thai bashing, is really getting to be too much! Let the police do their work, and stay out of this! This murder, should have never been a topic, open for discussion on this forum. All of the negative bs from TV members has hurt the investigation, I am really embarrassed for some of you, you are really setting back, Thai, Farang relations!! How would you like it if foreigners came to your home country and continually insulted you, calling you stupid and worse. This is a everyday occurrence on TV, I only hope that Thai people are not reading these derogatory comments. Please remember, that Thailand is our host country, and that we are guests, and if we don't like it, then we need to go!

I will certainly agree that a certain amount of Thai bashing has occurred in relation to the murders. However, many on this forum who live in Thailand see everyday the real Thai society and culture and those of us who have repeatedly visited Thailand all carry away experiences from our visits. Sure there are those that see Thailand through rose tinted glasses.

Thailand is a third world country but sometimes appears outwardly to be a modern, 21st century nation. It is NOT. It's culture is rooted in a stratified society and during the 20th century developed into a corrupt, anything goes, society where the end justifies the means. We see it in the daily stories right on TV. We read about the scams suffered by posters and tourists alike. To the outside world and those unfamiliar with Thailand its biggest claim to fame is it's sex industry known by all to be the most prolific in the world. To those that follow the goings on in Thailand, and don't view Thailand with blinders, there is a power structure that is self serving. The coup that took place not so long ago just replaced one group for another. There is peace on the streets now but other than a clean up here or there, nothing will really change as too many people have too much too loose. I know too many friends that live in Thailand that really have blinders on as they just go about their daily lives, hanging out with their expat friends and seeing little of the real Thailand. I envy them their ability to be oblivious to the real Thailand around them.

This investigation, the press releases, and the way things were handled in general show complete lack of professionalism. The continuing comments by officials about the tourism industry being hurt only too clearly indicate what they feel is the true concern for Thailand and its economy.

There are lots of questions to be answered and hopefully there will be a thorough independent investigative effort. I do hope they have found the culprits but many of us have reason to fear that the police might just want the case closed ASAP and might just find scapegoats. I really hope this in not the case and that real investigative work is what lead them to the accused. Let the press ask the right questions, if they can. Let the press follow the court cases, if they will.

I understand your logic, but, leave it to the press and justice will not be done. Go on forums, FB sites and sign petitions etc. just do something!

[phuketandsee]

Some really good news:

Rights group arranges lawyers for Myanmar men

A team of lawyers has been sent to help the two migrant Myanmar workers being charged with murdering two British tourists and raping one of them on Koh Tao, a prominent activist for the rights of migrant workers said yesterday.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Rights-group-arranges-lawyers-for-Myanmar-men-30244775.html

Edited October 4, 2014 by phuketandsee

[Adeeos]

I don't know if anything can be done any longer but I urge any one of you here to do your bit and sign the petition.

https://www.change.org/p/the-government-of-the-united-kingdom-independently-investigate-the-horrific-murders-of-hannah-witheridge-and-david-miller

Tried to sign it and it didn't work. I wonder how many others it didn't work for

Scroll to the bottom of the page, look to the right and you will see the language option. Sign and share with friends. I put it on CSI and thousands (Thai and Burmese) have since signed in the past few hours.

Done,,,

[Luang]

The Sky News reporter who stepped in to her own story should be ashamed of herself.

She should be fired

Not as ashamed as the British Ambassador to Thailand, Mark Kent ,should be!

https://twitter.com/KentBKK

[JohnThailandJohn]

OK, so tell me how it can be that at first it was announced that Thailand can't do real DNA testing and they sent DNA to Singapore for that?

Next tell me how the Thais were able to proclaim the suspects' DNA was a match after they did the testing in fewer than 24 hours when real DNA testing takes 2 - 4 days.

Next tell me what the motive was for the Thais first announcing that they wanted help from the US FBI but then they quickly changed their mind? The FBI has an office in Bangkok.

Tell me why, with this quick DNA test that Thais can't do, and that no one can do in less than 24 hours isn't being shared with the UK just to be good neighbors? Why the lack of transparency?

This whole thing stinks.

Nobody ever said Thailand cannot do real DNA testing. There are numerous types of DNA testing and they sent the original samples to Singapore for more advanced testing to find about more about the person they were looking for.

Singapore is closer and regardless if FBI has an office here or not, they don;t have a DNA lab here and obviously the Thais discovered Singapore could provide the same testing they wanted. This would be the most logical answer but could be many they chose Singapore over the US.

It was not 24 hours since they took their DNA but about 24 hours since they announced their confession.

Because this is Thailand and not the US or UK and they don't have to nor is it remotely the norm for one country to have another country step into a criminal case to verify evidence because internet whiners and conspiracy theorists are up in arms because who they wanted to be to blame (a rich Thai) was not.

The original DNA collected from the crimes scene is on file in numerous places including Singapore. The two suspects caught on video, seen around the time and scene and who have admitted their crime and whose DNA has been matched will still have their DNA match even if they die and should they die and disappear their family DNA will also be available should a lawyer, NGO or anyone else wish to pursue they are innocent.

Edited October 4, 2014 by JohnThailandJohn

[GOLDBUGGY]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Never mind boiling water - this whole farcical debacle makes my blood boil.

There is SO much evidence to suggest that these 2 migrant workers are NOT the killers, that I'm surprised that some international agency hasn't stepped in to set this to rights.

However - the DNA samples will have been tampered with by now - there's probably no real way of getting things verified properly.

Oh God in heaven above - please bring justice to this case - expose the truth and in the process, please help Thailand to WAKE THE HECK UP!!!!!!!!!!

If you commit a crime, you must pay the consequences. You may think you can escape scot-free right now - but believe you me, it will always come around in the end.

But hey - the Thai's know that, right?

They're Buddhist, so they must. They live by the laws of Karma, which they believe in stoically, right?

Someone? Anyone? Please tell me I'm right??!

II am sorry but I don't see any evidence you presented to show they are as innocent as you say.

What is not in doubt, as all the accused had admitted before the boiling water, was that they were down by the beach during the approximate time of death and all admitted to seeing the victims together before there death. That is highly significant as it places them as the last ones to see them alive, other than the murderer(s) if it wasn't them.

Using boiling water, or for that matter any form of torture, to obtain a confession no doubt can lead to confessions of innocent people. This is why, in the West, this confession would not be allowed in a court of law as evidence. But having said that, using boiling water on a suspect, who later confesses to a crime, does not make him automatically innocent either, and as you suggest.

The overwhelming DNA Evidence, secured from Hanna from locations that would be very difficult to contaminate, cigarette butts that have been identified, located at the log but also at the crime scene, eyewitness accounts placing the suspects near the crime scene at or near the time of deaths, and there own initial confession that they were their during this time, is not fabricated evidence done by the police.

Now place 3 suspects into 3 different rooms, over several hours, and without time to create a fabricated story together, and they all come up with identical stories of how this crime was committed, and there part in the crime, and that in itself is pretty strong evidence they did it. So My Friend I tend to disagree with you. In my book they are guilty as sin. No matter how there confessions were obtained.

[Pundi6446]

Today’s re-enactment was greeted with dismay around the world.

A tourist was chosen to play 24-year-old David while a female TV journalist took the role of Hannah.

Maybe it was actually the first soap rewritten by the good general, returning happiness to the Thai people

Yes I believe so

[Luang]

Some really good news:

Rights group arranges lawyers for Myanmar men

A team of lawyers has been sent to help the two migrant Myanmar workers being charged with murdering two British tourists and raping one of them on Koh Tao, a prominent activist for the rights of migrant workers said yesterday.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Rights-group-arranges-lawyers-for-Myanmar-men-30244775.html

This is exactly what is needed to keep this in the public eye. Positive news indeed

[englishoak]

OK, so tell me how it can be that at first it was announced that Thailand can't do real DNA testing and they sent DNA to Singapore for that?

Next tell me how the Thais were able to proclaim the suspects' DNA was a match after they did the testing in fewer than 24 hours when real DNA testing takes 2 - 4 days.

Next tell me what the motive was for the Thais first announcing that they wanted help from the US FBI but then they quickly changed their mind? The FBI has an office in Bangkok.

Tell me why, with this quick DNA test that Thais can't do, and that no one can do in less than 24 hours isn't being shared with the UK just to be good neighbors? Why the lack of transparency?

This whole thing stinks.

Nobody ever said Thailand cannot do real DNA testing. There are numerous types of DNA testing and they sent the original samples to Singapore for more advanced testing to find about more about the person they were looking for.

Singapore is closer and regardless if FBI has an office here or not, they don;t have a DNA lab here and obviously the Thais discovered Singapore could provide the same testing they wanted. This would be the most logical answer but could be many they chose Singapore over the US.

It was not 24 hours since they took their DNA but about 24 hours since they announced their confession.

Because this is Thailand and not the US or UK and they don't have to nor is it remotely the norm for one country to have another country step into a criminal case to verify evidence because internet whiners and conspiracy theorists are up in arms because who they wanted to be to blame (a rich Thai) was not.

The original DNA collected from the crimes scene is on file in numerous places including Singapore. The two suspects caught on video, seen around the time and scene and who have admitted their crime and whose DNA has been matched will still have their DNA match even if they die and should they die and disappear their family DNA will also be available should a lawyer, NGO or anyone else wish to pursue they are innocent.

Sorry John but your not really making much sense yourself now, what your actually doing now is making up excuses and theories of your own.... opposing maybe but your just assuming and cant prove any of it.

Take a look in the mirror before accusing others of being conspiracy theorists or whiners etc , because that s exactly what your doing right now.

Ask any number of families who have tried to get answers out of Thailand for deaths of loved ones... most often they are stonewalled or fobbed off in circles. Go do some research on those still trying to get closure here, theres an awful lot

[scubascuba3]

Some really good news:

Rights group arranges lawyers for Myanmar men

A team of lawyers has been sent to help the two migrant Myanmar workers being charged with murdering two British tourists and raping one of them on Koh Tao, a prominent activist for the rights of migrant workers said yesterday.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Rights-group-arranges-lawyers-for-Myanmar-men-30244775.html

This is exactly what is needed to keep this in the public eye. Positive news indeed

Read this excerpt, sounds cobblers:

Meanwhile, local officials in Surat Thani said yesterday that tourists were returning to Koh Tao resort island in droves after the alleged culprits in the murders of British tourists Hannah Witheridge and David Miller were arrested.

Thawisak Inphrom, the chief of Koh Pha-ngan district, of which Koh Tao is part, said that tourism on Koh Tao has become "busy again" following the arrests.

"Tourists now have become more confident about safety on the island, and they are confident the authorities can provide safety for them," he said.

Kind of reminds me of Jaws

Edited October 4, 2014 by scubascuba3

[moodymoo]

How is anyone expected to believe that these two small, slightly built men brutally murdered two people? They 'confessed' that they murdered David then raped and murdered Hannah. It would have taken the two of them at least to overpower David, so who was restraining Hannah during that time?

This is my feeling about what happened. Hannah had an altercation with a Thai local in a bar that night. He lost face and was furious. He got a group together to exact revenge. Meanwhile, three Burmese migrant labourers were sitting on a tree trunk on the beach, playing guitar and drinking. One of them went home, leaving the other two. Sean McAnna had been asleep that night, but went out later on to try and find David. Through trying to find David, he met up with Hannah and ended up walking her back to her accommodation. On the way, at the beach, Hannah was set upon by the Thai man and his friends. Sean was minimally hurt but managed to run. David happened to be walking back shortly afterwards. Rather than running, he tried to help Hannah and was beaten. The two Burmese men came over to see the commotion and were spotted by the gang. The Thai who had lost face and his accomplices took it in turns to rape Hannah, but used condoms, aware that they didn't want to leave DNA. They then coerced/forced the Burmese men to rape her too, knowing that it would be their DNA that would be found. One of the condoms was accidentally left at the scene.

Very soon the next day, everyone on the island knew who had been responsible. The police spoke to the relevant families and were paid off. They then knew there were some Burmese men sitting on the beach that night because the 'witnesses' to this were the perpetrators of the crime themselves. They were also informed that if they caught these men they could pin the whole crime on them because of the DNA. So this was an easy solution that suited everyone.

[englishoak]

Some really good news:

Rights group arranges lawyers for Myanmar men

A team of lawyers has been sent to help the two migrant Myanmar workers being charged with murdering two British tourists and raping one of them on Koh Tao, a prominent activist for the rights of migrant workers said yesterday.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Rights-group-arranges-lawyers-for-Myanmar-men-30244775.html

This is exactly what is needed to keep this in the public eye. Positive news indeed

So it takes Andy Hall, someone who is being sued in Thailand for exposing human rights abuses by the company doing it to get the ball moving

Excellent, he is a respected activist with A LOT of international media support and back up.

GREAT NEWS

[Luang]

How is anyone expected to believe that these two small, slightly built men brutally murdered two people? They 'confessed' that they murdered David then raped and murdered Hannah. It would have taken the two of them at least to overpower David, so who was restraining Hannah during that time?

This is my feeling about what happened. Hannah had an altercation with a Thai local in a bar that night. He lost face and was furious. He got a group together to exact revenge. Meanwhile, three Burmese migrant labourers were sitting on a tree trunk on the beach, playing guitar and drinking. One of them went home, leaving the other two. Sean McAnna had been asleep that night, but went out later on to try and find David. Through trying to find David, he met up with Hannah and ended up walking her back to her accommodation. On the way, at the beach, Hannah was set upon by the Thai man and his friends. Sean was minimally hurt but managed to run. David happened to be walking back shortly afterwards. Rather than running, he tried to help Hannah and was beaten. The two Burmese men came over to see the commotion and were spotted by the gang. The Thai who had lost face and his accomplices took it in turns to rape Hannah, but used condoms, aware that they didn't want to leave DNA. They then coerced/forced the Burmese men to rape her too, knowing that it would be their DNA that would be found. One of the condoms was accidentally left at the scene.

Very soon the next day, everyone on the island knew who had been responsible. The police spoke to the relevant families and were paid off. They then knew there were some Burmese men sitting on the beach that night because the 'witnesses' to this were the perpetrators of the crime themselves. They were also informed that if they caught these men they could pin the whole crime on them because of the DNA. So this was an easy solution that suited everyone.

3/4 of that is believable. The Burmese bit too far fetched for me. The theory minus that element though could add up. I have wondered more and more of late as to what Sean's role in all this was , and have wondered if if he could have been involved in some way - those injuries look very similar to David's. Might explain why he won't talk....shame??

In saying that, I think as a Brit the shame would eventually be overcome by his sense of doing the right thing once home and telling all.

Edited October 4, 2014 by Luang

[USNret]

(1) The vests & helmets were unnecessary. There was no animosity in the crowd as it is universally understood among the people of Koh Tao that these poor kids are scapegoats. The locals know exactly who committed the crime.

(2) The two poor Cambodians had to be "walked through" the re-enactment: Shown where to walk, where to point, how to swing the weapon -- because they quite obviously had no understanding of the crime scene.

These two factors are widely discussed in Thai blogs. The people aren't stupid.

[moodymoo]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

How is anyone expected to believe that these two small, slightly built men brutally murdered two people? They 'confessed' that they murdered David then raped and murdered Hannah. It would have taken the two of them at least to overpower David, so who was restraining Hannah during that time?

This is my feeling about what happened. Hannah had an altercation with a Thai local in a bar that night. He lost face and was furious. He got a group together to exact revenge. Meanwhile, three Burmese migrant labourers were sitting on a tree trunk on the beach, playing guitar and drinking. One of them went home, leaving the other two. Sean McAnna had been asleep that night, but went out later on to try and find David. Through trying to find David, he met up with Hannah and ended up walking her back to her accommodation. On the way, at the beach, Hannah was set upon by the Thai man and his friends. Sean was minimally hurt but managed to run. David happened to be walking back shortly afterwards. Rather than running, he tried to help Hannah and was beaten. The two Burmese men came over to see the commotion and were spotted by the gang. The Thai who had lost face and his accomplices took it in turns to rape Hannah, but used condoms, aware that they didn't want to leave DNA. They then coerced/forced the Burmese men to rape her too, knowing that it would be their DNA that would be found. One of the condoms was accidentally left at the scene.

Very soon the next day, everyone on the island knew who had been responsible. The police spoke to the relevant families and were paid off. They then knew there were some Burmese men sitting on the beach that night because the 'witnesses' to this were the perpetrators of the crime themselves. They were also informed that if they caught these men they could pin the whole crime on them because of the DNA. So this was an easy solution that suited everyone.

3/4 of that is believable. The Burmese bit too far fetched for me. The theory minus that element though could add up. I have wondered more and more of late as to what Sean's role in all this was , and have wondered if if he could have been involved in some way - those injuries look very similar to David's. Might explain why he won't talk....shame??

In saying that, I think as a Brit the shame would eventually be overcome by his sense of doing the right thing once home and telling all.

I actually do think the DNA in Hannah matches up with these two guys, so I can only think that it happened as above or, even more macabre, the two Burmese came across Hannah after the crime and left DNA then. When Sean said he knew 'David was trying to protect' Hannah in his initial interview, I think he knew a lot more than he was letting on. I think he would have been too scared to speak the truth, and being a known witness to the crime he was set upon on the evening that all the subsequent drama ensued. He was rightly scared for his own life after knowing what these guys were capable of. Now he's out of Thailand, I wish he would speak up.

[farang000999]

Whatever happens it is good that there are so many Thais who know it is bullshit and hate the corruption and who are posting this CSI stuff.

[JohnThailandJohn]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Never mind boiling water - this whole farcical debacle makes my blood boil.

There is SO much evidence to suggest that these 2 migrant workers are NOT the killers, that I'm surprised that some international agency hasn't stepped in to set this to rights.

However - the DNA samples will have been tampered with by now - there's probably no real way of getting things verified properly.

Oh God in heaven above - please bring justice to this case - expose the truth and in the process, please help Thailand to WAKE THE HECK UP!!!!!!!!!!

If you commit a crime, you must pay the consequences. You may think you can escape scot-free right now - but believe you me, it will always come around in the end.

But hey - the Thai's know that, right?

They're Buddhist, so they must. They live by the laws of Karma, which they believe in stoically, right?

Someone? Anyone? Please tell me I'm right??!

II am sorry but I don't see any evidence you presented to show they are as innocent as you say.

What is not in doubt, as all the accused had admitted before the boiling water, was that they were down by the beach during the approximate time of death and all admitted to seeing the victims together before there death. That is highly significant as it places them as the last ones to see them alive, other than the murderer(s) if it wasn't them.

Using boiling water, or for that matter any form of torture, to obtain a confession no doubt can lead to confessions of innocent people. This is why, in the West, this confession would not be allowed in a court of law as evidence. But having said that, using boiling water on a suspect, who later confesses to a crime, does not make him automatically innocent either, and as you suggest.

The overwhelming DNA Evidence, secured from Hanna from locations that would be very difficult to contaminate, cigarette butts that have been identified, located at the log but also at the crime scene, eyewitness accounts placing the suspects near the crime scene at or near the time of deaths, and there own initial confession that they were their during this time, is not fabricated evidence done by the police.

Now place 3 suspects into 3 different rooms, over several hours, and without time to create a fabricated story together, and they all come up with identical stories of how this crime was committed, and there part in the crime, and that in itself is pretty strong evidence they did it. So My Friend I tend to disagree with you. In my book they are guilty as sin. No matter how there confessions were obtained.

Nobody has claimed these two were tortured with boiling water. They have been in custody, who could they make such a claim to? The allegation of torture and boiling water came from other questioned and released.

And what DNA is by now tampered with?? The original DNA was analyzed and they have the results and additional samples were sent to Singapore where they too have the results. At any time they can take new samples from the suspect to compare with the results on file from the dna collected at the scene.

Edited October 4, 2014 by JohnThailandJohn

[JoeLing]

...... Please remember, that Thailand is our host country, and that we are guests, and if we don't like it, then we need to go!

Dear Thailand, as I am only a Guest here in your country, please treat me as a guest!

Please keep me safe and treat me as any host would treat a guest in their own home.

Although, it used to be one of the nicest, friendliest and most generous homes I ever

lived in, greed made you to fill your house with more guests than you were able to

take care off. You neglect your guests, rip them off from the moment they step in to

your house right to the day they leave and should they experience any problems in

your home, you treat your guests as if they were criminals.

Should you have forgotten how to treat guests, any major hotel chain will be able to

give some insight in how to make Guests feel welcome and safe. How to treat guests

with respect and courtesy and most of all , how to make guests come back again.

There is an old saying in the hospitality business, treat your guests as if they would

be kings and queens, how ever small or big they are.

Now as I said before, I have no time for Thai bashers nor the Thai apologist with their

pink glasses but choose to respect my fellow forum buddies by holding my tongue on

the subject of their idiocracy.

So you can put down your pens and save your angry letters for another day. If I can

poke a little fun at my own ride then I'm going to take a few pot shots at the country

or the community I live in.

Edited October 4, 2014 by JoeLing

[phuketandsee]

(1) The vests & helmets were unnecessary. There was no animosity in the crowd as it is universally understood among the people of Koh Tao that these poor kids are scapegoats. The locals know exactly who committed the crime.

(2) The two poor Cambodians had to be "walked through" the re-enactment: Shown where to walk, where to point, how to swing the weapon -- because they quite obviously had no understanding of the crime scene.

These two factors are widely discussed in Thai blogs. The people aren't stupid.

I understand they are Burmese. But your observations on the enactment (a re-enactment implies they had done it before) are spot on.

[JohnThailandJohn]

I suspect ...

Early on that an official with knowledge of a blonde hair found at the scene decided to use this to make an idiotic comment about Thai people not being capable of committing such a crime.

This upset many people just because of the sheer ignorance of the claim but really upset those Farang who dislike Thais as a whole because they feel inferior here. Then add the inferiority and jealousy they feel toward rich and powerful Thais and they decided for their own self-esteem needs this needed to be a rich Thai who committed the crime despite any actual evidence to suggest this to be the case.

Now it turns out not to be a Thai but rather some migrant workers and they just cannot accept it. Clearly some of how now come to terms with this as the hours pass but some just refuse to accept this and are finding wild conspiracy conspiracy theories based on inaccurate or unknown info or simply using far fetched or unfounded reasoning to discount not just the DNA evidence but the overwhelming evidence against these two ... not to mention the lack of any reasonable suspicion to believe it was a rich Thai, let alone one with a double penis that ejaculates two types of DNA.

[JohnThailandJohn]

(1) The vests & helmets were unnecessary. There was no animosity in the crowd as it is universally understood among the people of Koh Tao that these poor kids are scapegoats. The locals know exactly who committed the crime.

(2) The two poor Cambodians had to be "walked through" the re-enactment: Shown where to walk, where to point, how to swing the weapon -- because they quite obviously had no understanding of the crime scene.

These two factors are widely discussed in Thai blogs. The people aren't stupid.

I understand they are Burmese. But your observations on the enactment (a re-enactment implies they had done it before) are spot on.

Many local and international reporters actually there at the reenactment as well as foreigners taking part in the reenactment and not one has made such a comment as far as I can see. Numerous have stated it was a spectacle and something in their mind strange to do but none have said they needed to be directed how to do what in front of the hundreds of onlookers. But lets go to facebook to check the facts off of what they interpret from video snippets, likely without sound, of the reenactment.

There was no animosity displayed in the crowd because there were over 100 cops there. Did you see any animosity towards police? Also nobody was close to the victims. At the scenes, generally anger and attacks come from family members or friends or when a crime strikes home like killing a child. Had the police not taken steps to protect them the you would be saying they were trying to get the suspects killed.

Do you not see the illogical things you are desperately latching onto to not accept the overwhelming evidence against these guys?

Edited October 4, 2014 by JohnThailandJohn

[nitehawk56]

=

(1) The vests & helmets were unnecessary. There was no animosity in the crowd as it is universally understood among the people of Koh Tao that these poor kids are scapegoats. The locals know exactly who committed the crime.

(2) The two poor Cambodians had to be "walked through" the re-enactment: Shown where to walk, where to point, how to swing the weapon -- because they quite obviously had no understanding of the crime scene.

These two factors are widely discussed in Thai blogs. The people aren't stupid.

I understand they are Burmese. But your observations on the enactment (a re-enactment implies they had done it before) are spot on.

Based on these 2 factors alone, , your saying that the RTL had to coach them on what took place. Puppeteers RTL Puppets 2 Burmese

[JohnThailandJohn]

The are always vile disgusting shows that do nothing for the pursuit of justice.

Unfortunately, the police thought yesterday's show was a display of wonderful abilities and don't even realize how it makes everyone else want to vomit.

Actually crime scene reenactments are normal in murder cases even in first world countries but they are usually done via computer. They are important in most cases to show how the crime was committed and to show it was plausible or not depending on whose side put together the computer reenactment. Having the suspects actually do the reenactment is more valuable than a computer reenactment both in terms of accuracy as well as truth but certainly more insensitive to loved ones.