Refusal of Entry Clearance for Thai GF

[penco]

My Thai GF just got the result of her application for a 6 month Visitor Visa. They rejected the application on the basis of two things:

1. Lack of proof of a relationship, quote:

"you supplied no evidence to demonstrate an ongoing and genuine relationship as claimed, or that you have ever met in person"

2. Her unemployment, no income or assets, quote:

"not satisfied you are a genuine visitor or that you intend to leave the UK at end of your proposed visit"

Some background. We met 10 years ago in Thailand where she worked as the au pair of an English friend of mine and his Thai wife. I met her, that was it. No relationship at that time just we knew each other.

Earlier this year she contacted me on Facebook as she had become an FB friend of my mate's wife (he and spouse are now based in UK) and had seen me on my mate's wife's FB friend list. We chatted online via FB messaging and a relationship developed.

This summer I flew out to Thailand for a holiday (first time in 10 years), specifically to meet her. She met me at the airport and we had a lovely 2 weeks together. She shared my hotel room and we spent the time together. She gave up her job at a manufacturing company to be with me (against my wishes, I told her not to give up work but she did anyway). She has a young child who is looked after by her estranged husband's parents. She finally decided to divorce her husband after I returned to UK because she wants to be with me and get married and start a family.

I applied for a UK visitor visa for her and with the online form she filled in the bits she could and I did the other bits. I reviewed it when completed and submitted it. I supplied supporting documentation which I sent via the post and she handed it in at the office at the appointment she had. This included: mortgage statement, 6 months bank statements, 6 months payslips, letter from employer confirming employment history, colour copy of passport, colour copy of driving licence, gas and electric and water bills to prove my address, formal invitation letter, supporting evidence form and 4 sides of A4 explaining our relationship and how I would look after her. Financially it's not a problem for me, I'm not Bill Gates but the £20k limit or whatever is well within my budget.

Regarding point 1. "Relationship" - all of our interactions are online, only a few emails mostly just FB messaging and Google Hangouts. How do I prove that? Photos? I like many other people these days I haven't printed out a physical photo for years. They get shown to be people on my mobile/tablet or they're on FB/Picasa etc. Plus apart from 2.5 weeks together in Thailand we're in an online long distance relationship. I've been sending her money fairly regularly but that's only since the summer. We chat together online every day at least a couple of hours.

Regarding point 2. "Reasons to return to Thailand" - well she's divorced living with friends with no job and her child has basically been adopted by her ex-in-laws, so no family ties. Employment - how many factory owners are going to give their employees a 6 months sabbatical to visit UK? Having a job seems irrelevant.

I'm really at a loss as to what to do now.

It's forcing my hand but I'd be prepared to fly to Thailand and have a quickie marriage at an amphur then I guess apply for a settlement visa? But that seems very rash considering we've only spent less than 3 weeks as a couple together. The whole point of the 6 month trip to UK was to test the water and see if in the harsh reality of a living together in the UK, me at work etc that we were happy together and a viable couple. Then we would have returned to Thailand together, done the amphur marriage thing and applied for a settlement visa.

I cannot move out to Thailand. I have an elderly sick mother, a house here and a reasonable job. If truth be known, I prefer life here.

What's my next move?

[brewsterbudgen]

She shouldn't have given up her job. She should have applied for a much shorter "holiday", with a letter from her boss confirming she had a job to return to. You should have printed off photos of you and her together.

She should get another job. Visit her in Thailand again. Visit her family. Take lots of photos. Re-apply for a much shorter visit.

Another 6 months or so won't matter if you love each other.

Edited October 4, 2014 by brewsterbudgen

[David48]

What ever you are thinking ... 'marriage' is not a reason to get a Visa.

Develop a relationship, in person, not on Facebook, Skype etc.

Less then 3 weeks 'face time' ...

Mine is a relationship reply ... not a visa Assistance however, the UK Government has also detected that you have had little time 'together ... hence part of their refusal for the Visa.

[howerde]

Start gathering the evidence now, it is her application so she will need to show sufficent reason to return to Thailand, job/family/land/property etc etc, document all you conversions, you don't need to show the content, but show it is an ongoing relationship. remember there is no automatic entry for her if you do get married

[ajb1985]

If she can't get a visitor visa then it will be a lot harder to get a settlement visa.

How about just spend some time together in Thailand and build a genuine relationship that will be easy to prove as it will be a proper relationship.

[theoldgit]

I think you've really answered your own question.

Photos will prove you've met, how else could the ECO be satisfied, most, if not all people, use digital cameras and phones these days, but also most people print some off when they are applying for a visa. When my partner applies for her visas she prints a few off, on sheets of paper, showing us together at different locations over the years, maybe one from each trip, ECO's need hard evidence.

You've already indicated that you didn't think it was a good idea for her to give up her job, you were spot on, the ECO will be looking for evidence that she's likely to return, at the moment she doesn't seem to have any.

Visas are routinely issued for a six month period, that doesn't mean that she would be expected to visit the UK for six months.

Whilst a settlement visa should be a question of ticking the boxes, I agree with others that marriage isn't the way to go to get a visa.

[rct99q]

sorry to sound harsh, but they may done you a hugd favor. takd your time as others have stated. I would likd to add that it is your girlfriend, nit you, that needs to prove she will not overstay her visa. you being able to support her and providing everything does not always help a thais application. if everything is provided for free, why would she want to return to Thailand? Try and think like an immigration officer when looking at her application and ask that question.

Good luck, if she is genuine then a year or two wont be a big issue.

my wife obtained a TRV for Canada (also a difficult country for thais to get visa) with a solid application and plenty of supporting documents.

[7by7]

If she can't get a visitor visa then it will be a lot harder to get a settlement visa.

Wrong; the criteria are different; especially as with a settlement visa there is, obviously, no need to show a reason to return.

Though, again obviously, the ECO does need to be satisfied that the relationship is genuine.

How about just spend some time together in Thailand and build a genuine relationship that will be easy to prove as it will be a proper relationship.

Could help, as the ECO seems to doubt the relationship, and even that they have actually met.

Penco; as others have said; do not marry her just to get her a visa. Only marry her if you are both sure that you want to spend the rest of your lives together.

Marry in haste, repent at leisure!

The problem seems to be lack of evidence; so gather that evidence and reapply.

Save photos and emails etc. to print for her next application.

I'm not a facebook user, but understand you can save or print pages from there.

Have a read of UK visit visa basics, you may find it useful.

[penco]

Thanks for the sage advice everyone. I hadn't realised it was necessary to actually provide photographic evidence of a relationship and now I realise I should have printed out the dozens of photographs I have of us together including when I first met her 10 years ago. I over-emphasised my capability to host her as I had thought that the main problem would be reassuring the UK government that she wouldn't ever be a burden on the state.

Before I left Thailand I trawled through these forums regarding a UK visitor visa and I discussed with her what I'd found. That it was important that she demonstrate that she has reasons to return to Thailand. I urged her not to give up her job and in fact took her to the bus station and put her on the bus back to Bangkok with some cash telling her that she must keep her job. The problem was that she wanted to be with me and annual leave seemed to be non-existent for her in her job (she worked in a factory). I don't know what employment is like in Thailand, I'm used to UK where it's normal to have at least 4 weeks paid annual leave.

Anyway as a result of what people have said here the plan of action is as follows:

1. She gets a job (she's effectively been on a long holiday, funded by me since she jacked her job in back in July)

2. I will go out to Thailand again in January for a couple of weeks. Meet the family, lots of photos etc i.e. gather lots more evidence. Plus more time together to see if we really do have something.

3. When I go in January take all the bits and pieces I need to for her UK visitor visa application and we sit down together and fill it out. Guess I probably need to take the laptop with me.

It's going to be expensive (two long longhaul foreign holidays in less than 6 months!) but it seems the best way forward.

Thanks everyone.

[bkkbarnstormer]

Thanks for the sage advice everyone. I hadn't realised it was necessary to actually provide photographic evidence of a relationship and now I realise I should have printed out the dozens of photographs I have of us together including when I first met her 10 years ago. I over-emphasised my capability to host her as I had thought that the main problem would be reassuring the UK government that she wouldn't ever be a burden on the state.

Before I left Thailand I trawled through these forums regarding a UK visitor visa and I discussed with her what I'd found. That it was important that she demonstrate that she has reasons to return to Thailand. I urged her not to give up her job and in fact took her to the bus station and put her on the bus back to Bangkok with some cash telling her that she must keep her job. The problem was that she wanted to be with me and annual leave seemed to be non-existent for her in her job (she worked in a factory). I don't know what employment is like in Thailand, I'm used to UK where it's normal to have at least 4 weeks paid annual leave.

Anyway as a result of what people have said here the plan of action is as follows:

1. She gets a job (she's effectively been on a long holiday, funded by me since she jacked her job in back in July)

2. I will go out to Thailand again in January for a couple of weeks. Meet the family, lots of photos etc i.e. gather lots more evidence. Plus more time together to see if we really do have something.

3. When I go in January take all the bits and pieces I need to for her UK visitor visa application and we sit down together and fill it out. Guess I probably need to take the laptop with me.

It's going to be expensive (two long longhaul foreign holidays in less than 6 months!) but it seems the best way forward.

Thanks everyone.

Would also recommend contact by email or print out any messages, call logs to show evidence of an enduring relationship.

The most important factor is to ensure she has a strong reason to return to Thailand.

[David48]

I think that 'loads of photos' is wrong. I read once a guy sent in 40 pages of photos ... @ 4 a page ... that would be 160 happy snaps ...

No government employee wants to look at a thousand holiday photos of people they have never met nor have any interest in.

With the Photos ... two things.

Prove that you have met each other.

Try for some inclusive Family photos .. it demonstrates that you have been included, in part, by her Family.

When thinking photos think ...

King's birthday

Queens Birthday

Her Mother's Birthday

Songkran

Christmas

LoyKathrong

These major events 'self date' the photo.

My humble opinion only ... I'm not a Visa Agent.

[David48]

Typically, Thai Factory Workers don't get any paid leave.

But most do have a break over the Songkran period of a few days up to a week ... depending on the Business.

So, while it might be only for a few days ... a short Songkran holiday might be the go.

By April next year hopefully you would have had more time together.

May I ask ... have you met her Family ... very important in Thai Culture ... not universally ... but with most Families it is.

[theoldgit]

Have to agree with David, don't overwhelm the ECO with too many photos, they are not going to plough through them.

When my partner has applied for her visas, she provides a sheet or two, with photos printed on them of us together on overseas trips, one from each trip cross referenced to passport stamps, that indicates that we have met and we travel regularly out of the country. Of course photos in Thailand on memorable dates will do equally well.

The ECO doesn't have long to make a decision and you need to make it as easy as possible for them, so do so by making the application concise and snappy with the relevant evidence jumping out at them.