Potential Effects on Thai Citizenship of Thais Naturalising

[Richard W]

I've split this off from 'Biometric Card' (whence the following quote) as it has only a little to do with biometric cards. It also makes it easier to move the thread if it's in the wrong forum. The relevance is that the last British Labour government contemplated compelling immigrants to naturalise as British on pain of expulsion, except where so doing would cost them their original nationality.

I asked you to quote the relevant law which says a Thai cannot have dual nationality.

You have not done so; instead you find an out of date law that was replaced years ago. Long before the 2008 amendments you found.

What a Thai can do is renounce their Thai nationality if they acquire another one.

If, as you yourself quoted, they desire to.

Not that they must, but if they desire to.

The current Thai nationality law is the Nationality Act BE 2508 as amended, just as the relevant British nationality law is the British Nationality Act 1981 as amended. Thus the Nationality Act (No. 4) BE 2551 (of 2008 AD) expresses the changes as amendments to the Nationality Act BE 2508, just as in Britain the Immigration Act 2014 amended the British Nationality Act 1981. The 2508 BE act may date from 1965 AD, but it remains the basis of the current law. There are another two nationality acts, but the translation I provided claims to have incorporated the changes they made.

If I am wrong, pray tell me what law replaced the law you dismiss as out of date. Ideally, quote me the law that now allows Thais to acquire another nationality without losing Thai nationality.

Section 15 of the 2508 act (as amended?) appears to allow dual nationality in at least some cases; it does not specify which. In my daughter's case, it would apply to her British nationality as derived from being born in Britain to a Thai mother settled in the UK. For Section 14, on the face of it, to preserve her British nationality as derived from me, my daughter will be required to go into a year-long sulk where she doesn't want to remain British but doesn't bother to renounce British nationality. It has been pointed out that this section originally only applied to children of foreign fathers who acquired Thai nationality simply by virtue of being born in Thailand.

To recap for those who haven't read the 'Biometric Card' topic, Section 22 states, amongst other matters, that, to be idiomatic, Thais forfeit Thai citizenship when they acquire another citizenship by naturalisation. Section 13 appears to allow an exception for those acquiring their spouse's nationality. Section 5 states that this loss only becomes effective when it is recorded in the Government Gazette. Thus Section 5 allows Section 22 not to be exercised by means of the simple failure to record such forfeitures in the Government Gazette.

[Richard W]

The amendments from the Nationality Act (No. 5) B.E. 2555 (2012 AD) are included at http://www.refworld.org/pdfid/506c08862.pdf . There's another consolidated translation up to 2008 in Appendix A of Patarin Khaochan's MA thesis. In her thesis, she states that in general naturalisation costs Thai citizens their nationality by Section 22. I haven't looked at her case studies to see her take on Thais acquiring their spouse's nationality by naturalisation.

[Donutz]

Sorry but not again please, potential effects dor Thai? NONE. It's spelled out in the nationality act that they may CHOSE to renounce their citizenship but by no means are forced to.

“Nationality Act, (No.4), B.E. 2551 (=2008)
Chapter 2. Loss of Thai Nationality.
(…)
Section 13.
A man or a woman of Thai nationality who marries an alien and may acquire the nationality of the wife or the husband according to law on nationality of his wife
or her husband may, If he or she desires to renounce Thai nationality, make a declaration of his or her intention before the competent official according to the form and in the manner prescribed in the Ministerial Regulations.

(...)

Section 15.

Except in the case under Section 14, a person who has Thai nationality and other nationality, or who acquires Thai nationa lity by naturalization may, if he desires to renounce Thai nationality, file an application with the competent official according to blablablabla

Source: http://www.refworld.org/pdfid/506c08862.pdf

See also:

- http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/750127-thai-national-or-not

- http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/658321-thai-wife-with-dual-citizenship-her-status-now-in-thailand/

- http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/753044-dual-nationality-thaiuk/

- http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/31508-dual-citizenship/

-

- tons of other topics.

- Common sense: many Thai have mulitple nationalities. Thajson for instance and he certainly didn't all gain them via birth or marriage... He might be well connected but also has many enemies, if it was illegal or he would lose his Thai citizenship, somebody would have nailed him by now.

Edited October 4, 2014 by Donutz

[MaprangHolmes]

Another pointless topic

[Donutz]

If section 22 would meant termination of Thai citizenship for all people that naturalize, pretty much all of the sections before about obtaining and losing citizenship would be void and pointless, and Thaksin would have been nailed aswell.

[Richard W]

Another pointless topic

Blame 7by7 for forgetting Samran's exposition. I assume 7by7 read Samran's posts, as he was posting in that thread. Samran's posts in the thread form a complete account.

Donutz, thank you for the link.

If section 22 would meant termination of Thai citizenship for all people that naturalize, pretty much all of the sections before about obtaining and losing citizenship would be void and pointless, and Thaksin would have been nailed aswell.

By Section 5, Section 22 only has effect if names are listed in the Government Gazette, and those who've naturalised as aliens aren't being listed. That's why there's the word 'potential' in the title of the thread. Perhaps 'theoretical' would have been better.

The act was originally written for a time when children acquired nationality from their fathers or the territory they were born in, and wives acquired their husband's nationalities automatically. Thus dual nationality was always possible. For subsequent developments, I recommend Samran's exposition.

[theoldgit]

This has little, if anything, to do with Visas to other countries, and is already going the road of the other thread which has turned into a baiting contest between two members.

This thread is closed.