Police address criticisms over Koh Tao arrest of Myanmar suspects

[j15mth]

Majority Of Thais have NO faith in the Thai Police arresting the correct people.Thai people think that the Thai Police are frightened of Loosing Face.

[toonsai]

This afternoon I saw Sorayuth on Channel 3 interviewing a police forensic scientist who was saying there was DNA found on Hannah's nipples from two males, neither of whom were David or the two suspects. I wonder what that is all about.

There is a Youtube clip in Thai of Khunying Pornthip saying the the Koh Tao case is a "cover-up" (kati ampran). Haven't seen any reports of that elsewhere.

Link for the youtube clip pls

[Bkk Cruiser]

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I don't know why people keep going on about these phones.

More curiously is why davids DNA is confirmed not on the hoe that is said to be the murder weapon.

The police said right from the start, the hoe was not the weapon used on David.

Now, they insist it was.

Second curiosity is , there is not a scrap of DNA or evidence putting David and Hannah physically together in any way shape or form.

As they would have everyone believe in the re-enactment.

Forget about the phones.

DNA on the hoe is the question.

Greenchair - you are correct in the statement "The police said right from the start, the hoe was not the weapon used on David". I have seen the internal RTP Line chat where the police amongst themselves are saying it wasn't a Hoe that caused the fatal injuries - the police themselves in these chats are saying they dont believe that the Burmese committed the attacks..and that the fingerprint evidence on the hoes is not being referred to. The Police forensic photo that is in the chat shows about coloured red 4 - 5 circles quite clearly highlighting fingerprints.on the handle of the hoe. The police internally are chatting why are not the fingerprints not being used as well. The chat session I saw also shows two very close up photos of Davids wounds to the back of and slightly above his right ear (a blue rubber gloved finger is pointing to the biggest wound) ..these show several deep wounds into the skull 2-3cm in length and about 0.3cm wide consistent with a penetrating wound from large bladed 'hunting" knife.. I am no forensics specialist - but they look like they were delivered by a rather strong or violent series of thrusts. These quite shocking wounds would be impossible from the hoe. I wont be providing proof as the phone was not mine - and Thais know to keep their mouths closed in such high profile cases. I hope these photos come out as evidence in the trial (but what judge would dare throw out this case based on conflicting evidence let alone allowing discussion on or a description of the actual weapon that could have inflicted these horrific woulds that doesn't match the now official story.)..There must be massive pressure on the investigating forensic officers from above to secure the conviction - that's the way it works here.

Bkk Cruiser: Good information. Well noted. Thank you.

I'm plugged into high level police gossip about police reform. They believe it won't happen. I'd be interested to hear what you think of pick up on this point.

Hi Catterwell.. I think we have similar bona fide access .. lets chat by PM. Unlike many mature Police forces in developed countries with proper fiscal processes. - there is a complete mix of behavior and levels of integrity. There are many good and diligent police - and unfortunately many bad eggs.. by which the entirety is judged. When the average salary of a 10 year inspector (with a Masters degree) is only 8500 Baht / month it is difficult to attract or retain the best candidates. Police on graduation are required to buy their own gun (4- 5 months salary) their own full uniform sets including ceremonials that can cost them 8 - 9 months salary. My contact spends 3000 Baht / month just on public transport to get to work and a 30 baht lunch - not much else to live on is there? Many of the Police would love to see some reform and salary parity. Anyway it's nice to get a positive response for a change. I am still waiting to have these types of conversations in the Thai Visa Lounge in Suk 7..if only they put some comfy lounge chairs upstairs I am sure people might feel more comfortable there and discuss face to face rather than online..

Edited October 6, 2014 by Bkk Cruiser

[greenchair]

3 people have gone very very quiet.

Sean. The owner and the son. Laying lower than low. Waiting , waiting .the suspense must be unbearable.

Are we gonna worm our Way out of this?

[Bkk Cruiser]

Majority Of Thais have NO faith in the Thai Police arresting the correct people.Thai people think that the Thai Police are frightened of Loosing Face.

First Point is generally a fair comment..but please have a think about your second point - who are the Police reporting to now? Its not their face they are worried about losing if they fail to "solve the case"... much more is at stake here.

[greenchair]

If the DNA evidence is infallibly conclusive, why did they need to beat confessions out of the Burmese boys?

They didn't look particularly beat up to me - only sheepish and clearly regretting raping and killing those two unfortunate Brits.

I don't understand why people are so intent on protecting them when all of the investigative facts point to them being the guilty party.

Some of the facts point to them. Most of the facts point to more than two.

If you could just tell me how those little 21 year olds did all that on their own.

So far the police cannot say how it was done.

The burmese cannot say how it was done.

And probably you cannot even dream up how it was done.

You have who, what ,where ,when, why.

Nobody has the answer to HOW.

Purely my gut instincts.

Hang a young boy on that would you?

[Dogmatix]

I wonder what happened to this line of equiry. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rb9dT9STZXg.

The commentator says there were several witnesses that saw the headman's son there the night before and leaving on a boat in the wee hours of the morning. I suppose the witnesses could have been mistaken or changed their minds. Anyway, police seem to think the evidence from the CCTV at his Bangkok residence and that he was sitting an exam are reliable enough that there was no need to check his DNA and fingerprints or check flight lists that morning or confirm he was on a flight on a previous day.

[German Viking]

Simple solution Mr. Prayut with all respect, ban for a while of any tourism on this island and somebody will open the mouth.

Money counts, this is the only powerful weapon dry this bastards out.

Carpe Diem

[buhi]

I wonder what happened to this line of equiry. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rb9dT9STZXg.

The commentator says there were several witnesses that saw the headman's son there the night before and leaving on a boat in the wee hours of the morning. I suppose the witnesses could have been mistaken or changed their minds. Anyway, police seem to think the evidence from the CCTV at his Bangkok residence and that he was sitting an exam are reliable enough that there was no need to check his DNA and fingerprints or check flight lists that morning or confirm he was on a flight on a previous day.

Am I correct that the Island is Crown Property and not in fact owned by anyone living there?

Complicated and not worth discussing!

[visionchaser45]

I would like to know where all of the blood evidence is. Hacking people to death with a hoe produces lots of blood, which is cast off as the assailant swings the weapon. Blood would have also pooled around the bodies. So, what blood evidence was found on the suspect's belongings that links them to the crime? There are just too many unanswered questions. Besides, the "authorities" are notorious liars.

[mango66]

Can anybody send me a link, with pics, that show, the Myanmar with bruising and burns from boiling water, that was put upon them to own up, or whereabout of suspects ?? Id like to see it.. All these accusations of torture and so on, im finding it hard to believe nobody has taken pics...

ask the RTP,

they will show you how they do it !

dont worrie !!

[Dogmatix]

This afternoon I saw Sorayuth on Channel 3 interviewing a police forensic scientist who was saying there was DNA found on Hannah's nipples from two males, neither of whom were David or the two suspects. I wonder what that is all about.

There is a Youtube clip in Thai of Khunying Pornthip saying the the Koh Tao case is a "cover-up" (kati ampran). Haven't seen any reports of that elsewhere.

Link for the youtube clip pls

Sorry I can't find the clip any more. Perhaps it has been taken down but there is an article about it in Thai Rath here http://www.thairath.co.th/content/453781 . She did use the phrase คดีอำพราง which means cover-up or camoflage case but I think she mainly meant that the work had been done very poorly. She seems to be saying that there is absolutely no need for DNA samples to go abroad as Thais can check them which is of course true but can they be trusted.

[JohnThailandJohn]

They got the guys and now they will have their day in court. Videos, Witnesses, Confession, physical evidence and DNA. The suspects have lawyers who will be able to take their DNA again and compare it to that originally taken from the crime scene and analyzed in Thailand and Singapore.

It really is pathetic that faux internet forensic experts are going on with tiny bits of information, early police theories and imperfect reporting to come up with the most idiotic theories and then passing these off as plausible by pretending other facts don't exist.

The UK will not ask to become part of the investigation no matter how many people sign an internet petition. Like the rest of this nonsense, this is just not the way things work.

Most of you are no interested in justice, you just don't like who it turned out to be because you want to blame a Thai (specifically a rich one simply because he is rich) while others are angry and distrust the police. Get over it, the case is now going to be in the courts hands and it is so highly unlikely all the evidence including DNA (which can be verified again) are all a set-up.

While the police without doubt made mistakes it is just idiotic the way some our pretending. The want transparency but they can;t handle even receiving a little info. OMFG, so the police didn't know who did this originally and focused their attention on numerous suspects until landing on these two whose DNA matched ... this is the way many investigations go around the world. You take reports as gold when it suites your need for a conspiracy but even the most uninformed of those of us in Thailand know the press is crap and things are lost in translation.

The DNA matches and we all know as well as the police it can be verified again and again as long as the two suspects bodies are around. So go off on idiotic phone and unmissing video BS to make yourself feel better but it just comes off as desperate and illogical and dishonest.

Can you cite the reference that confirms DNA was sent to Singapore for testing?

Of course not because I nor you are part of the investigation. We have statements it was sent because Thai labs were not cable of identifying race (only gender) and then later we have Thai officials stating the DNA came back as Asian.

But I see your point, ignore everything else and focus on something that has not been confirmed by you. Clearly it must have been the son of a rich Thai and a plethora of people including doctors, police, officials, friends of the suspects and soon the prosecutors, courts and their lawyers have plotted to cover it up by likely executing some immigrant workers.

Edited October 6, 2014 by JohnThailandJohn

[intune53]

3 people have gone very very quiet.

Sean. The owner and the son. Laying lower than low. Waiting , waiting .the suspense must be unbearable.

Are we gonna worm our Way out of this?

one of the people you just mentioned has updated their facebook cover photo yesterday. it now says "hello, goodbye".......

[German Viking]

I wonder what happened to this line of equiry. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rb9dT9STZXg.

The commentator says there were several witnesses that saw the headman's son there the night before and leaving on a boat in the wee hours of the morning. I suppose the witnesses could have been mistaken or changed their minds. Anyway, police seem to think the evidence from the CCTV at his Bangkok residence and that he was sitting an exam are reliable enough that there was no need to check his DNA and fingerprints or check flight lists that morning or confirm he was on a flight on a previous day.

Am I correct that the Island is Crown Property and not in fact owned by anyone living there?

Complicated and not worth discussing!

If this is true and this island is crown property empty it.

Case will be then soon solved.

[mango66]

You are scared to speak out. What freedom do you have ?

Hmm read my posts and you will see I am not afraid, under anonymity. That anonymity which protects me and allows me to express my opinions openly. It does not affect my freedom or privacy.

It's not like I have inside info or anything. Also, I am not concerned with people 'liking' my posts as I tend to offend many. Do you really want some troll knowing where you live?

Some tend to confuse anonymity with kryptonite, but they tend to reveal their one-dimensioned mentality very quickly and are easily ignored.

Old school is still better.

Bottom line is numbers tell the story.

People in US complain that there's 4,000 gun related homicides / year / 100 million people. Something like 5-10 times more than a lot of western European countries.

In Thailand there's 25,000 gun related homicides / year / 100 million people

So Thai Police get loads of experience. And some of the guys they have to nail are real "hardcore". It's not like the Koh Tao murders are the first they've investigated.

Wait and see what the UK Ambassador has to say as he will be privy to much more info than us.

And it's amazing they didn't crack down on visas before cause there are plenty of foreigners who increase the Police workload a lot. But Thailand is a generally life loving culture and appreciate tourism. So that's why they try to be nice to foreigners, I'd say keep it that way.

Nuff Said, have a good night boys

Dear Uncle !

You still live in the past - 20 years ago when thai loved foreign tourists,

Go out today on the street,

go out on first weekend on month when the thais are in the mall,

and than count how much are still smile or friendly to you !!

bypass a university and count the number of students which will spend an eyclick to you !!

You dreaming from the past my Uncle !!

[connda]

Now move along...nothing more to see here.

[StealthEnergiser]

This afternoon I saw Sorayuth on Channel 3 interviewing a police forensic scientist who was saying there was DNA found on Hannah's nipples from two males, neither of whom were David or the two suspects. I wonder what that is all about.

There is a Youtube clip in Thai of Khunying Pornthip saying the the Koh Tao case is a "cover-up" (kati ampran). Haven't seen any reports of that elsewhere.

Did they mention anything about doing further tests on high profile families on the island including alleged suspects that may have fled to bangkok.

[mataleo]

they had male phone too?

[bunglebag]

My Wife tells me that the chit chat on Thai Forums is that Warod the son of the head man is not only connected to the Kings son and that some Army main man is part of their family but also took a flight from Samui using his Dad's name on morning of 15 Sept as they the family have a travel card with BK Air. He was on Koh Tao for the Full moon party on the 8th and stayed on.

You should maybe pass this info on to CSI LA (Facebook) as he was talking about early morning flights from Samui. Mind you if it is on the Thai chat forums he will have heard already most likely.

But to be honest I feel the truth will never be permitted to come out now. Family is too well connected and the country is too corrupt.

Edited October 6, 2014 by bunglebag

[animatic]

The most damning part of this whole thing is not that some of the public is saying they don't believe the police story,

but that ;

a ) The reputation of the RTP is such that so few believe them at face value.

b ) That they feel they can quiet things down by threatening people about disputing them.

Their lose of face is more important publicly than proving their are actually acting transparently.

c ) That they think threatening with prosecution those who state they don't believe them,

is actually a reasonable thing to do. It is not..

Edited October 6, 2014 by animatic

[Artisi]

Now move along...nothing more to see here.

Not for the blind.

[GOLDBUGGY]

maybe if they allowed an independent dna test to be performed we might believe them but as long as they keep sticking to their current "we did nothing wrong" testaments we all know its simply a cover up for their pathetic attempts to satisfy their "no thai did this" statement and the total unprofessional way they investigated it along with the way they allowed suspects to muddy the waters.

What they need to do is allow an agency from outside Thailand to go over the so called evidence as well as check the supposed dna samples taken from the local "mafia" and to take fresh dna samples for the supposed killers. This needs to be above board and not the current corrupt crap we are seeing.

And what about the false glove a L.A. Detective planted at the crime scene in the OJ Simpson Case? By your assessment, should the L.A. Police Department now be forced to submit all there DNA Evidence to Thailand because of that?

People can argue back and forth for months on if the Thai Police used these guys as a "Scapegoat". But I suggest this.

When you have the real killers locked up, you don't need "Scapegoats"!

I don't see why they should get any special treatment more than you and I would get. Especially when you look at the crime they committed. My heart goes out to the victims, and not their killers. If they looked scared when reacting there crime......then good!

[Artisi]

There can't be an independent investigation, DNA review, or whatever as the crime occurred under Thai jurisdiction. The only way another crime agency can legally get involved is if officially invited to by the Thai authorities.

Not completely true. Murder of a British Citizen anywhere in the world is a crime against UK law. In similar cases a Coronor in the UK has decided to hold an inquest into the circumstances of the death and use all the resources at hands to get at the facts. If they believe that the persons committing this crime are not the ones that did it they are fully at liberty to declare the death was at the hands of an individual, not the ones said to be involved and pass it to the Police for further investigation within its powers. They have done this in the case of a few murders in the Middle East.

Response from BIB "Solly- no red Engris"

[7Heaven]

Do you people realize you don't even know the facts you are questioning? You have not seen the police report and you have no seen the autopsy report and the case has not even been presented in court. You have bits of information from the press which some are accurate and some are not (as always in Thailand) and you have official statements from the police and again some perfectly accurate and some not as things get passed up to the head guy who makes the press statements. Then once translated (impossible to do perfectly accurately) you have info.

Then you have the other folks who get their info from blogs and believe they must be right because 90+ percent of the other blog readers believe in the blog. And those folks who believe they can solve crimes from a low resolution image. The Dr. Quincy folks can actually tell us how the murders were committed and with what weapon as well as the order of the wounds and if they occurred while the victims were alive despite them not know simple things like if blood had been wiped or rubbed away from any of the wounds.

Pathetic and desperate.

will never happen

[littlebw]

if it was these 2 then how did they escape?

did they use the motorbike? no cctv of the bike later?

if yes then surely this should be checked for forensics?

i dont know how far they lived from crime scene but would not more cctv pick them up returning home?

[Robert2006]

When they speak I don't listen all I see are their lips moving. They have been so corrupt for so long they lost their credibility with me and with most of the world.

Come on guys we know the game, who really did it and how much are they paying you?

[ScotBkk]

They got the guys and now they will have their day in court. Videos, Witnesses, Confession, physical evidence and DNA. The suspects have lawyers who will be able to take their DNA again and compare it to that originally taken from the crime scene and analyzed in Thailand and Singapore.

It really is pathetic that faux internet forensic experts are going on with tiny bits of information, early police theories and imperfect reporting to come up with the most idiotic theories and then passing these off as plausible by pretending other facts don't exist.

The UK will not ask to become part of the investigation no matter how many people sign an internet petition. Like the rest of this nonsense, this is just not the way things work.

Most of you are no interested in justice, you just don't like who it turned out to be because you want to blame a Thai (specifically a rich one simply because he is rich) while others are angry and distrust the police. Get over it, the case is now going to be in the courts hands and it is so highly unlikely all the evidence including DNA (which can be verified again) are all a set-up.

While the police without doubt made mistakes it is just idiotic the way some our pretending. The want transparency but they can;t handle even receiving a little info. OMFG, so the police didn't know who did this originally and focused their attention on numerous suspects until landing on these two whose DNA matched ... this is the way many investigations go around the world. You take reports as gold when it suites your need for a conspiracy but even the most uninformed of those of us in Thailand know the press is crap and things are lost in translation.

The DNA matches and we all know as well as the police it can be verified again and again as long as the two suspects bodies are around. So go off on idiotic phone and unmissing video BS to make yourself feel better but it just comes off as desperate and illogical and dishonest.

Can you cite the reference that confirms DNA was sent to Singapore for testing?

Of course not because I nor you are part of the investigation. We have statements it was sent because Thai labs were not cable of identifying race (only gender) and then later we have Thai officials stating the DNA came back as Asian.

But I see your point, ignore everything else and focus on something that has not been confirmed by you. Clearly it must have been the son of a rich Thai and a plethora of people including doctors, police, officials, friends of the suspects and soon the prosecutors, courts and their lawyers have plotted to cover it up by likely executing some immigrant workers.

Sorry double Post

Edited October 6, 2014 by ScotBkk

[englishoak]

They got the guys and now they will have their day in court. Videos, Witnesses, Confession, physical evidence and DNA. The suspects have lawyers who will be able to take their DNA again and compare it to that originally taken from the crime scene and analyzed in Thailand and Singapore.

It really is pathetic that faux internet forensic experts are going on with tiny bits of information, early police theories and imperfect reporting to come up with the most idiotic theories and then passing these off as plausible by pretending other facts don't exist.

The UK will not ask to become part of the investigation no matter how many people sign an internet petition. Like the rest of this nonsense, this is just not the way things work.

Most of you are no interested in justice, you just don't like who it turned out to be because you want to blame a Thai (specifically a rich one simply because he is rich) while others are angry and distrust the police. Get over it, the case is now going to be in the courts hands and it is so highly unlikely all the evidence including DNA (which can be verified again) are all a set-up.

While the police without doubt made mistakes it is just idiotic the way some our pretending. The want transparency but they can;t handle even receiving a little info. OMFG, so the police didn't know who did this originally and focused their attention on numerous suspects until landing on these two whose DNA matched ... this is the way many investigations go around the world. You take reports as gold when it suites your need for a conspiracy but even the most uninformed of those of us in Thailand know the press is crap and things are lost in translation.

The DNA matches and we all know as well as the police it can be verified again and again as long as the two suspects bodies are around. So go off on idiotic phone and unmissing video BS to make yourself feel better but it just comes off as desperate and illogical and dishonest.

Can you cite the reference that confirms DNA was sent to Singapore for testing?

Of course not because I nor you are part of the investigation. We have statements it was sent because Thai labs were not cable of identifying race (only gender) and then later we have Thai officials stating the DNA came back as Asian.

But I see your point, ignore everything else and focus on something that has not been confirmed by you. Clearly it must have been the son of a rich Thai and a plethora of people including doctors, police, officials, friends of the suspects and soon the prosecutors, courts and their lawyers have plotted to cover it up by likely executing some immigrant workers.

Good ole dependable Johnny Boy ... take em out and hang Em' High ........ he's totally convinced, so we should all be grateful for his running commentary and using up all his spare time to Hijack all the threads ...... do anything for anyone - he's got a heart of gold.

Hes a shill

[Robert2006]

When they speak I don't listen all I see are their lips moving. They have been so corrupt for so long they lost their credibility with me and apparently with most of the rest of the world.

Come on guys we know the game, who really did it and how much are they paying you?