Chiang Mai and the Hippie Trail

[JulieM]

The world's population has roughly doubled in my lifetime, from around 3.3 billion in 1960 to around 7 billion now. Parts of the world are shrinking rapidly, especially Japan, so we may see a reversal of this trend.

5,000 years ago the centers of the world's population and advancements were in China and India. It is no surprise to me that it is returning there. The pity is that Chairman Mao and his followers destroyed what was a beautiful and thoughtful Chinese culture.

[Konini]

The world's population has roughly doubled in my lifetime, from around 3.3 billion in 1960 to around 7 billion now. Parts of the world are shrinking rapidly, especially Japan, so we may see a reversal of this trend.

5,000 years ago the centers of the world's population and advancements were in China and India. It is no surprise to me that it is returning there. The pity is that Chairman Mao and his followers destroyed what was a beautiful and thoughtful Chinese culture.

Absolutely fascinating BBC documentary on this subect here very well researched and entertainingly presented. I rarely watch anything twice, this is one of the few things that I have. It's an hour long but well worth spending the time on. My husband who usually won't watch any of the doco's that i find declared it the best thing he'd watched this year.

Highly recommended.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

My point is that the places that have something of note worth visiting -- be it Angkor Wat, Goa or Sapa in Northern Vietnam, to name a few -- are and never will be what they were say 20 years ago. Let me emphasis this: They will NEVER be what they once were -- they will never "recover" from the onslaught of tourism.

Right, well that depends what you consider Angkor to be: as a historical site it's just as impressive as ever. Of course there are more people, so if you enjoy hangning somewhere with lesser crowds then probably just about anywhere else in Cambodia will do. And people there now will have just as good a time as xx years ago.

Or if you're looking for historical sites without any people (not as impressive as Angkor, mind) there's one less than an hour's drive South, past Sanpatong. https://www.google.com/search?q=wiang+tha+kan&tbm=isch

I do get your point of course; that combination of remoteness and grandeur at Ankhor specifically won't come back. On the other hand, a lot of places weren't accessible at all xx years ago, but are now.

[northernjohn]

About coming to Chiang Mai and feeling like it was "home"...

I dropped out of the wonderful world of work in 2009, on my 64th birthday. I had been over here the summer before, visiting Bali, Malaysia, and Thailand. I took a few weeks to move out of my apartment in South Seattle, and bought an open-ended return ticket to KL, Malaysia. I had considered staying there, until I took a closer look at the cost of living, and the local power structure. Suffered a bad bout of bronchitis in Bali. As I was recovering, I remembered how much I had enjoyed Thailand, particularly Chiang Mai.

The "decision" took about five minutes. I flew up here, and when I landed at CNX, I asked the cab driver to take me to the Hotel Khumsiphaya, near the Chang Phuak Gate, a place I had read about on some guy's blog. I walked in on a muggy June night, dropped my bag at the counter, and said I wanted to rent a room for a month, sight unseen. A little old Thai lady, the matriarch of the place, standing about four foot three, walked up to me, took a good look at me and the beard I had then, and said, "You look like communist!", and then laughed. I told her no, only a Socialist. That was OK, apparently.

I lived there for a couple of years, and moved out before it was sold, gutted, and badly "remodeled." They blew the charm right out of it. The old lobby was so lovely. Somerset Maugham would have felt at ease there. Gone.

I've been back "home" a few times since then. Seattle, formerly a great town for working class families, is now a yuppie/hipster haven, unaffordable for those of modest means. Chiang Mai is truly home now. I don't have the urge to do more traveling, nor the stamina. I guess I get a vicarious thrill out of seeing all the backpackers keeping the flame alive. Bless them all in their travels.

Growing up in Settle and leaving it in 71 I now find it to be a tourist delight. Of course the Pike street market is the starting place.

[Johpa]

Growing up in Settle and leaving it in 71 I now find it to be a tourist delight. Of course the Pike street market is the starting place.

If you liked the Pike Place Market and First Ave in 1971 then you must feel at home along Loi Khroh.

[Trujillo]

I just figure we have to be patient and cut them a lot of slack until they get used to being out in the world more.

I'm afraid that's just not going to happen. They Chinese expect the rest of the world to adapt to their way of doing things, because, after all, they are great and proud and their way is the right way. And there's a shit-ton of them too.

[Frank James]

Growing up in Settle and leaving it in 71 I now find it to be a tourist delight. Of course the Pike street market is the starting place.

If you liked the Pike Place Market and First Ave in 1971 then you must feel at home along Loi Khroh.

Pike Place Market? How can you even mention that faux (was once genuine but no more) "farmer's market" after visiting just about any open air (under a roof but open) market in any Southeast Asian country? We have several markets here in Chiang Mai that make that touristic relic look very lame...Wawarot, Siriwatana, Mee Chok, etc.

In 1971 the PPM was almost demolished for condos, until the "city fathers" wised up and saved it as a tourist attraction. The surrounding sea of condos came along later. First Avenue then was a mile of so of really nasty waterfront bars. Now it's all upscale shopping.

But sure, take your out of town guests there, then up the Space Needle for $14. Whatever makes the till go ding ding.

Sorry, I know a lot of people enjoy that sort of stuff. Nothing wrong with it. Different strokes.

Anyway, I'm so happy to live in Chiang Mai now. "Everybody's gotta be somewhere." ----Bill Russell

[arunsakda]

How did the low budget vagabond travel from from Madras/Calcutta/Dhaka to

BKK in the 70/80's, with Burma so restrictive and borders closed to Farang.

Were passenger ships available or was flying the only option?

Edited October 9, 2014 by arunsakda

[Bill97]

How did the low budget vagabond travel from from Madras/Calcutta/Dhaka to

BKK in the 70/80's, with Burma so restrictive and borders closed to Farang.

Were passenger ships available or was flying the only option?

Ship to Penang on the deck, cargo ships, not passenger.

[harrry]

How did the low budget vagabond travel from from Madras/Calcutta/Dhaka to

BKK in the 70/80's, with Burma so restrictive and borders closed to Farang.

Were passenger ships available or was flying the only option?

Most flew either Calcutta to BKK or Nepal BKK though there was a regular ship to Penang. Ship was most useful for those traveling with motorbikes. It carried both cabin and bunk class passengers.

Edited October 9, 2014 by harrry

[harrry]

How did the low budget vagabond travel from from Madras/Calcutta/Dhaka to

BKK in the 70/80's, with Burma so restrictive and borders closed to Farang.

Were passenger ships available or was flying the only option?

Ship to Penang on the deck, cargo ships, not passenger.

Burma was not gernerally closed to foreigners but did have a 7 day or 14 day depending on the year visa for fly in passengers only.

[harrry]

Continuing the topic about boats. There used to be a regular ship between Perth and Singapore which was quite popular with those who liked a 6 day trip followed by a charter flight to England or by people like me who worked in the outback for 6 month periods so I could afford 6 months or more in Thailand. I used to use it as working as I did was just very basic camping and tthe 6 days of good food and party was a good start for a couple of days in Singapore then a few days travelling up through Malasia and Thailand in reasonable comfort till I restricted myself to more basic food and lodging so I could stay longer....and afford the nightlife.

For a while there were the Russian ships...the Karbarovsk comes to mind which plied this route and had some rather attractive Siberian girls working in the crew...well after 6 months in the outback anything was atractive.

The Russians dropped the route and the option was taken up by a much older ship the Eastern Queen which did the 6day trip on a regular fortnightly shedule.

[arunsakda]

Very interesting thread, I ended up watching "Last Hippy Standing " online today.

I have an older buddy I met in BKK about 10 yrs ago who had once traveled to SE Asia overland.

A big Greek from NYC, said after 3 months in India he was down to skin and bone.

No meat or alcohol to be had. He spoke of a very uncomfortable journey on a ship to Bali.

Now living (maybe) on Social Security and a small pension from City of San Francisco. A little far gone to get any reasonable communications out of him now....

Even though he was not habitually homeless I was always impressed that all his worldy possessions fit in a duffel bag.

The most treasured being a yellowed photograph posing with soldiers by an anti-aircraft gun in Cambodia.

Edited October 9, 2014 by arunsakda

[JulieM]

I was checking in for a flight to Bangkok from the US midwest about seven years ago when the airline check-in clerk started laughing. I asked him "what's up?"

He said when he punched up Bangkok on his computer, it automatically triggered a question from the Thai authorities. The question was: "does the traveller look like a hippy?"

I thought it was funny.

[arunsakda]

Thailand "No Hippy" 1979

[CMHomeboy78]

If they, or any other groups left accounts of their adventures, I'm unaware of them.

Perhaps other members know more.

You can start with Marco Polo, who was not impressed with certain groups in Southeast Asia eating raw meat (laap dip). But then there is a gap to the late 18th and into the 19th centuries when British and French expeditions covered the regions. You can find these in English, such as Frenchmen Henri Mouhot's descriptions of his travels off the grid.

What I had in mind were more recent travel narratives... but your mention of Marco Polo adds a new dimension to the Hippie Trail.

Maybe he could be considered as the first hippie to go overland across Asia - the few who preceded him were mostly Jesuits who had an agenda, so they wouldn't qualify.

Even though Marco Polo wasn't the first to make the trip, his account of it was the most popular and widely read. His detailed description of sexual practices, tattooing, and body piercing has a somewhat contemporary ring to it.

Although Chiang Mai didn't exist at the time, there are persistent tales and legends that Marco Polo visited the area. He certainly reported on Kublai Khan's capture of Pagan. He described the siege and devastation of the surrounding countryside, and the final assault which he said was made by the Khan's "jesters and jugglers" because the inhabitants were reduced to starvation.

Overland travel narratives have always been of interest to me. It's too bad that there are so few of them that aren't more or less fabulous.

[Colabamumbai]

I lived in Goa in the 70's and knew Eddie and most of the others. Very good post, good writing.

[UdeBoCM]

The Malaysia Hotel? I used to stay there too.

33 bahts a night in 1973 ($1 = 20 bahts)

66 bahts a night in 1976 ($1 = 25 bahts)

Now...?

[CMHomeboy78]

I lived in Goa in the 70's and knew Eddie and most of the others. Very good post, good writing.

I first heard about Eight Finger Eddie in an article in Life magazine in 1968. I was an art student in New York City at the time. Istanbul, Kabul, Lahore, Goa, Katmandu, were where I wanted to be.

It wasn't until eight years later that I made the trip... I just regret not going earlier.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Ah, the Chinese...Say what you will about them, if they hadn't shown up this year in their numbers, the 2013 - 2014 tourist year (set to fire up again soon) in Thailand would have been an economic disaster. I live in a residence hotel, and occasionally the place fills up with groups of them. It makes the management very happy, and happier still when they get in the bus and leave. I find them rather fascinating to watch, running around in Chiang Mai.

[...]

I just figure we have to be patient and cut them a lot of slack until they get used to being out in the world more. I'll say this for them---they're always neat and clean. And the girls are so cute in their little hats.

Yes, and also note that in Chiang Mai we're relatively blessed to be getting the younger / independently traveling crowd and less of the tour bus full of old uncles and aunties..

So far the ones I've met have been perfectly nice, educated and tidy people with great English to boot. Just perhaps a little more direct than Thai people; they're not shy to ask for things. They're a bit like Thai people who have had their kreng-jai module surgically removed, but perfectly fine people otherwise.

My wife often hosts tourists in a house she owns and was extremely reluctant to host Chinese people. Which clashed with my reluctance to profile people based on ethnicity/nationality, so I kind of forced it. (I think social and educational factors matter much more).

Anyway all Chinese people she received so far have been exceptionally tidy and easy to communicate with. (And *much* tidier than Western backpacker types.)

[harrry]

The Malaysia Hotel? I used to stay there too.

33 bahts a night in 1973 ($1 = 20 bahts)

66 bahts a night in 1976 ($1 = 25 bahts)

Now...?

It is now basically a gay pub. The original owners sold it a few years and the new owners have done it up I heard. Not being gay I have not stayed there lately as I have too many memories of the times I had and the girls that became good friends. I guess it has removed the sign on the swimming pool that said something like no working girls allowed in the pool. The photos on the page you get if you search for it in google bought back a few memories though.

Rates are round 850 on agoda.

Edited October 9, 2014 by harrry

[Smurkster]

This is so cool to seeing how all i know about this publication is little anecdotes and the like.. this book is I think at least a good 5 years older than me...

[1FinickyOne]

Nice memories! Fun post - and responses… Istanbul. the pudding shop, Teheran, Amir kabir hotel, Meshad, Herat, Kabul, grandmas 25 cent hamburger fries and a coke - a special treat, Mama's orange bread in Matala Crete, overland through the Khyber Pass, and on to Bangkok & Malaysia Hotel… when Sathorn Tai had canals… I made the trip in 1974… I did a 10 month backpack trip RTW… total cost $1700.

And the oddest tangential memory is this - - my grandparents had mostly died in their 50s, early 60s - I thought that was when people died and wanted to spend some time with my mid 50s parents… and so I returned home. My parents passed on - yes, but 40 years later in their 90s…

And to the poster… I always described my trips back through the years as finding Thailand as comfortable as lsiding into my favorite pair of slippers… took an early retirement and been here a dozen or more years now...

[harrry]

I do not know why but I too allways got the feeling of being home the minute I got my passport stamped. It did seem a bit more more friendly doing that in the old days....I remember a health official when there was a cholera outbreak in Thailand being quite upset that I had a yellow card and kept offering me a needle for free....very sharp he said as he kept touching the tip..

India did not quite have that effect though in some ways crossing the border to Pakistan does give the feeling of a weight being removed. Strangely the other place that gave me the home feeling was Iran. Right from the border I felt welcome, there was a war on and Americans were being held hostage in the embassy but I was welcome...that was to do with Governments.

[Emster23]

I recall reading Sobhraj book while hanging at Chewang on Koh Samuii for a month in 84, loaned to me by Australian post man Frank (Could consume more of everything than any two of us). "Frank, is this good idea to read before doing a year bang around Asia?". Generators, no disco, simple huts, maybe VHS tape of Tron for the 10th time at night... Remember postcards? Take at least 6 weeks to Q&A, looking through "post restante" at where ever you hoped to alight next.

No bottled water in India. Bali $1.25 per night w/ breakfast. Okay, so maybe 1 15watt light, squats and no fan... no tourist vans, ya ride with the locals. Khao San was maybe one guest house, couple eateries. I was up by Malaysia usually too

[strapper1]

This is without a doubt the best topic I have had the pleasure of reading. There is still a lot of adventure awaiting todays backpackers, they may have to look a little harder to find unspoiled locations, but they still exist! The world is your oyster!

[nealthewheel]

I left England in October 1976 and spent the next 7 months on the road between Europe and Iran doing car deliveries from Munich (if you were there on the route you would have seen the oval shaped Z for zoll plates). My initial trip took 3 weeks to hitch hike to Tehran and who can remember The Plaka in Athens, the Pudding Shop on the Asian side of the Bosporus and the "hotel" Amir Kabir in Tehran. All stops on the old hippie trial. What I witnessed I will never forget -- life turned around for me on those trips after seeing how cheap life was/is regarded once you left the "safety" of Austria and entered the former Yugoslavia and then onward to Turkey. Who remembers the border crossing names? They still haunt me hehehe. After those 7 months of travelling over 100,000 KMs overland I felt very lucky to get out alive - melodramatic no - it was a fact. The hippie trial was a perilous place compared to our Western standards.

Everyone who took a bite of that apple was never the same again and those of us who lived it can only really express what happened to us, to others who shared similar experiences because the stories are often doubted by youngsters. In those 7 months I think I may have slept in a bed perhaps no more than a dozen times. It was never easy and you lived by your wits. I got arrested an thrown out of Syria because one of our fellow travellers mentioned that we intended to spend Christmas on the West Bank - so I had to hitch hike from the border back to England and got one lift with an English truck driver on the 23rd of December and he dropped me at the top of the M3 5 days later. I needed a new passport as the Syrians had dubbed me an "enemy of the Arab nations" and stamped it all over my passport. At the time Syria only had a ceasefire with Israel. You see there are just so many stories to be told.

[CMHomeboy78]

I left England in October 1976 and spent the next 7 months on the road between Europe and Iran doing car deliveries from Munich (if you were there on the route you would have seen the oval shaped Z for zoll plates). My initial trip took 3 weeks to hitch hike to Tehran and who can remember The Plaka in Athens, the Pudding Shop on the Asian side of the Bosporus and the "hotel" Amir Kabir in Tehran. All stops on the old hippie trial. What I witnessed I will never forget -- life turned around for me on those trips after seeing how cheap life was/is regarded once you left the "safety" of Austria and entered the former Yugoslavia and then onward to Turkey. Who remembers the border crossing names? They still haunt me hehehe. After those 7 months of travelling over 100,000 KMs overland I felt very lucky to get out alive - melodramatic no - it was a fact. The hippie trial was a perilous place compared to our Western standards.

Everyone who took a bite of that apple was never the same again and those of us who lived it can only really express what happened to us, to others who shared similar experiences because the stories are often doubted by youngsters. In those 7 months I think I may have slept in a bed perhaps no more than a dozen times. It was never easy and you lived by your wits. I got arrested an thrown out of Syria because one of our fellow travellers mentioned that we intended to spend Christmas on the West Bank - so I had to hitch hike from the border back to England and got one lift with an English truck driver on the 23rd of December and he dropped me at the top of the M3 5 days later. I needed a new passport as the Syrians had dubbed me an "enemy of the Arab nations" and stamped it all over my passport. At the time Syria only had a ceasefire with Israel. You see there are just so many stories to be told.

Great reply! Thanks a lot.

I remember the guys driving cars [usually Mercs] Munich-Tehran. Some of them would buy carpets and take them back to Europe to sell at a good profit... they made their nut coming and going.

[CMHomeboy78]

Nice memories! Fun post - and responses… Istanbul. the pudding shop, Teheran, Amir kabir hotel, Meshad, Herat, Kabul, grandmas 25 cent hamburger fries and a coke - a special treat, Mama's orange bread in Matala Crete, overland through the Khyber Pass, and on to Bangkok & Malaysia Hotel… when Sathorn Tai had canals… I made the trip in 1974… I did a 10 month backpack trip RTW… total cost $1700.

And the oddest tangential memory is this - - my grandparents had mostly died in their 50s, early 60s - I thought that was when people died and wanted to spend some time with my mid 50s parents… and so I returned home. My parents passed on - yes, but 40 years later in their 90s…

And to the poster… I always described my trips back through the years as finding Thailand as comfortable as lsiding into my favorite pair of slippers… took an early retirement and been here a dozen or more years now...

Wasn't "Grandma" the ex-wife of an American consular official in Katmandu who opened a restaurant? I may be thinking of someone else, but I do remember an American woman who had more or less gone native and had a restaurant there.

[northernjohn]

Growing up in Settle and leaving it in 71 I now find it to be a tourist delight. Of course the Pike street market is the starting place.

If you liked the Pike Place Market and First Ave in 1971 then you must feel at home along Loi Khroh.

Pike Place Market? How can you even mention that faux (was once genuine but no more) "farmer's market" after visiting just about any open air (under a roof but open) market in any Southeast Asian country? We have several markets here in Chiang Mai that make that touristic relic look very lame...Wawarot, Siriwatana, Mee Chok, etc.

In 1971 the PPM was almost demolished for condos, until the "city fathers" wised up and saved it as a tourist attraction. The surrounding sea of condos came along later. First Avenue then was a mile of so of really nasty waterfront bars. Now it's all upscale shopping.

But sure, take your out of town guests there, then up the Space Needle for $14. Whatever makes the till go ding ding.

Sorry, I know a lot of people enjoy that sort of stuff. Nothing wrong with it. Different strokes.

Anyway, I'm so happy to live in Chiang Mai now. "Everybody's gotta be somewhere." ----Bill Russell

True the Pike Place Market is not what it was when I was growing up. I think it was the only place in Seattle you could get horse meat. It is as you say not comparable to Chiang Mai markets either. But I am not comparing markets if you want to compare markets check out the one in Oaxaca. It is probably as big as half the markets here in Chiang Mai combined. I don't remember the price but you could buy any thing there. Including a saddle for a donkey. As you say different strokes for different folks. Also this is a different time. That is why I enjoy hearing the stories of the Hippies who made the hippie trail.

I am getting on in years and to old to travel to place's where I have to worry about money so when I do go back there I go lots of place's the hippies would never go.

If you have any more Hippy stories keep them coming.