Presumption of innocence - Go on-----look it up

This case has produced reams of online debate.

I notice that both the Prime Minister and the chief of police have publicly stated that 'they have reviewed the evidence and they are (Prayut)'insisting police have solid forensic evidence to prove the men killed the young couple' (well known newspaper 4thOct) there is more - much more.

The point is that it is now impossible for these men to have any hope of a fair trial when the PM and police chief are at the very outset seeming to say they are guilty.

Even the worst work opportunity lawyer in the world should be able to laugh this case out of court

It better get laughed-out or else the PM and COP are going to get more than they bargained for...it is now claimed that the real perpetrator is running around free,...Nomsod, or Dodo - The son of village headman Warot Tuvichien is now considered by chat-forums (including Thai) as the real culprit. His alibis is/are not consistent with CCTV or students that know him.

More and more reports, questioning the validity of the investigation. "Perfect" it certainly isn't.

It's perfect for a Thai investigation of a crime against foreigners.

No Thais. Check.

Confessions. Check.

What else matters? It's perfect.

This tragedy is probably yet another example of below illustration.

Given the petition has reached such numbers, what is the procedural process that is expected of the UK authorities?

How come we only get articles like this from 'Coconuts BKK'--surely, if the Burmese have recanted their confessions then major news syndicates would be running the story?

And this one today--where are the big Media players?

They are running the story. Telegraph, Mirror, Independent, New York Daily News, Mail, Guardian etc etc etc.

Not sure what your point is- that the Coconuts Bkk article is inaccurate? Or that you'd rather read an article on it from a different source..?

I wasn't aware that the papers that you mention have printed that the boys have recanted their confessions-yes, those papers have more clout.

There is a lot of press coverage now:-

The Telegraph: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11145536/Thai-police-deny-cover-up-of-Britons-murders.html & http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11147921/Amnesty-urges-investigation-into-torture-of-Thai-island-murder-suspects.html

The Guardian: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/07/suspects-britons-murder-thailand-police-brutality

ITV News: http://www.itv.com/news/update/2014-10-07/burmese-murder-suspects-in-british-tourist-killings-say-they-were-beaten/

Daily Mail: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2784707/Burmese-migrants-RECANT-murder-confession-British-tourists-Human-rights-groups-urge-Thailand-investigate-claims-duo-tortured.html

The Mirror: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/thailand-beach-murders-burmese-suspect-4398149

New York Daily News: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/thai-police-deny-suspects-confessed-beach-murders-torture-article-1.1966290

Khaosod English: http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1412595379

Sydney Morning Herald: http://www.smh.com.au/national/myanmar-man-charged-in-murder-of-british-tourists-says-he-was-tortured-by-police-20141008-10rrxa.html

The Irish Times: http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/asia-pacific/murder-suspects-allege-thai-police-brutality-1.1955225

News.com.au: http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/thailand-beach-murders-burmese-suspect-claims-he-was-beaten-tortured-by-police/story-fnizu68q-1227083365604

New Zealand Herald: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11339226

A much closer look at this case needs to be conducted

Your the master of understatement, godden.

The Keystone cops trying desperately to fool the world into thinking they have a clue as to what they are doing.

I bet they hated the glare of the worlds press and media as this meant they just couldn't go out and pin this on the first unsuspecting illegal they could find.

Incompetent, inept, corrupt and rotten to the core. This is what serves Thailand as law enforcement.

Sky news: http://news.sky.com/story/1349276/thailand-murder-suspects-in-torture-claim

Bangkok post:. REMOVED AGAINST FORUM RULES.

Now the burmese have their lawyers perhaps we could start a fund to match the $1 million baht that the head man said he would pay if anyone could prove anyone from his family was involved....

Let's rustle up a million baht and offer it to the heads mans family if they give DNA samples to the UK authorities..All the sons and cousins...not put the samples in a taxi fto Singapore and end up in bkk...Let the uk compare them with the samples they have

If they have nothing to hide they'd jump at it and all this inuendo would vanish...

Then their sweet little Island can return to business as normal, even regain their already lost face and income,

What's worse for a Thai, loss of face or money? Well you have all of the above now..

Would be the perfect call for his disgusting offer of a million to prove his family did it...

The familes DNA holds the key..

When will you be starting your project, with full details of how much to raise, how you expect to raise it and lay out exactly how you are going to present it to the head mans family?

Now the burmese have their lawyers perhaps we could start a fund to match the $1 million baht that the head man said he would pay if anyone could prove anyone from his family was involved....

Let's rustle up a million baht and offer it to the heads mans family if they give DNA samples to the UK authorities..All the sons and cousins...not put the samples in a taxi fto Singapore and end up in bkk...Let the uk compare them with the samples they have

If they have nothing to hide they'd jump at it and all this inuendo would vanish...

Then their sweet little Island can return to business as normal, even regain their already lost face and income,

What's worse for a Thai, loss of face or money? Well you have all of the above now..

Would be the perfect call for his disgusting offer of a million to prove his family did it...

The familes DNA holds the key..

So of this one million baht, how much are you pledging? I missed that bit in your post.

The Times South Africa: http://www.timeslive.co.za/thetimes/2014/10/08/torture-twist-in-thai-case

Irish Independent: http://www.independent.ie/world-news/asia-pacific/coverup-claims-denied-in-thai-backpacker-murders-30647617.html

The only thing perfect here is the police corruption. They fabricate what they want and if there is no payment, everyone goes to court. They send inocent people to jail and ruin peoples lives and their families.

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Perhaps the UK Government should just do their own analysis on any samples recovered and fully publish them online for future verification by anyone who cares to do so.

For example the parents / siblings of the accused will show familial matches with the evidence assuming they are guilty.

This won't go away, proof of innocence would be just as damning as proof of guilt.

I suspect the Burmese and British governments will be setting this up right now if they care at all about this case.

There's nothing the Thai's could do to prevent this or meddle with it in any way.

That makes more sense than anything else. Burma as a country has a lot at stake and should be able to provide the families DNA samples. Can they be trusted to provide actual family members samples or just anyone of the street? The Brits would still need actual dna from the accused to prove who are actual family members in Burma. Makes you wonder.

If you read some of the accounts in the international newspapers linked above, you might assume that the unfortunate victims were having a late night stroll on the beach enjoying the (maybe) moonlit view of the Gulf of Siam before they were assaulted.

The Australian one in particular states: It is still unclear what prompted the killings.

Interesting development; according to Sanook news the public prosecutor on Samui has doubts about (at least part of) the story and evidence provided by the RTP, as he wont accept what's in the current 800-page report and just sent the entire case back to the police. So it's far from a shut case at this point.

how did the dna match?

UK Rules--you often suggest that the UK Government 'should' do XYZ--but, as we all know, this is very unlikely--Cameron has enough on his plate with ISIS, UKIP, and other anagrams and really--does he have the balls? The UK Police are about as likely to get involved as Deputy Dawg.

This has nothing to do with Cameron and how busy he is. There's a full and dedicated system in place for creating DNA profiles of the whole population, in fact I believe this is their ultimate goal.

When a victim arrives back in the UK after a vicious murder it is investigated, inquests can be held regardless of where the person dies.

If thi shappens samples will have been collected and stored permanently. These samples would be sent to a well equiped DNA lab along with 1000's of other samples collected every week and a full DNA profile of the material will have been produced.

This will have been done already as it's a standard procedure.

Read this - Section 5.2 in particular :

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/141958/mou-fco-acpo-coroners.pdf

If the families of the victims are fully satisfied that a full and honest investigation has taken place then I'm sure there will be no issue.

However if they aren't 100% satisfied then the following appears to apply :

request-assistance.JPG

Also this one from the above link :

request-assistance-2.JPG

So to sum it up, a murder investigation will be launched.

Do you think the families are full satisfied at this stage ?

Is it confirmed that the bodies of the deceased were sent for autopsy in the UK? I thought the Thais only send embalmed bodies abroad after removal of all internal organs in cases like this to avoid the embarrassment of conflicting autopsy reports.

Is is also confirmed that there will be inquests? Without reliable autopsies inquests would be a lot less effective.

Nothing is confirmed. From what I've read it's up to the families. If they are 100% satisfied with the investigation abroad then there would be no investigation.

Do you think the families of the victims are 100% satisfied ?

Don't expect any announcements of intentions. If we hear anything if will be when the results are beyond doubt.

I have a feeling that familial DNA testing could be useful here. Familial DNA analysis can be used to prove guilt just as easily as it can be used to prove innocence.

It's worth remembering that the victims bodies were repatriated quickly, before there were any suggestions that someone with influence may or may not have been involved in this case.

Apologies UKRules--

now I see where you are coming from--you suggest that DNA from the Burmese kids' families could be compared to the DNA present on the victims--now I understand--sorry, this would certainly prove that the Burmese boys were innocent or guilty, I presume.

Here's the non-suspect who fled the island the day after and has not provided a dna sample.

Mon sot.....

Taken from his fb page

His DNA ain't Asian

They not look like killers to me on this picture.

First good news in weeks - looks like some heads will roll over this and we might even see justice served and HiSo Brat and Rambo doing the reenactment. For the ones who are new here, I would like to say the following: If any author would write a crime novel with the official RTP story being his story line while making the mistake of leaving all those other question marks open (push knife stab wounds on David AND Sean, fistfight David before drowning, Sean left to run, the bloody guitar, the people who hunted Sean, no eye or ear witnesses, the staged reenactment, the torture, the phones, not interrogating all friends and everyone around Hannah and David that night and more), he would not sell one single book and critics would rip the author apart in mid air - he sure would never sell a book in his life and would be a subject to endless ridicule amongst the worldwide community of book authors and publishers. Think about it!

Interesting development; according to Sanook news the public prosecutor on Samui has doubts about (at least part of) the story and evidence provided by the RTP, as he wont accept what's in the current 800-page report and just sent the entire case back to the police. So it's far from a shut case at this point.

Yeah, I just heard, if so thats awesome to begin with.

Perhaps the UK Government should just do their own analysis on any samples recovered and fully publish them online for future verification by anyone who cares to do so.

For example the parents / siblings of the accused will show familial matches with the evidence assuming they are guilty.

This won't go away, proof of innocence would be just as damning as proof of guilt.

I suspect the Burmese and British governments will be setting this up right now if they care at all about this case.

There's nothing the Thai's could do to prevent this or meddle with it in any way.

You can bet your most precious appendages that the UK has already done full DNA, drug and alcohol testing etc. on both of the victims and now hanging out for any samples from the suspects and others it can lay its hands on. It will take time but it will be done, now whether it will make any difference to the outcome in Thailand - well that's another story.

Why did the DNA of these 2 Burmese suspects not match with DNA at the crime scene in the first round of DNA testing for people on the island???-fact And why are authorities afraid to test the DNA of "Nom Sod"??-fact (independent test-not by Thai authorities) The male victim had two phones-fact.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11147921/Amnesty-urges-investigation-into-torture-of-Thai-island-murder-suspects.html

Now that has clout to quote another, the pressure is mounting.

I wonder how JTJ will spin this one out

Good Article. The RTP cannot afford to have this case go to trial or undergo any kind of scrutiny at all - it will fall apart very quickly.

Makes it a bit scary for the lives of these two then - and the third "witness" being held incognito.

I wonder if the third witness knows really what happened, and RTP don't want him talking to the press/lawyers. I hope he doesn't meet with any kind of unfortunate accident.

here we go

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2784707/Burmese-migrants-RECANT-murder-confession-British-tourists-Human-rights-groups-urge-Thailand-investigate-claims-duo-tortured.html#ixzz3FXkge9st

http://bangkok.coconuts.co/2014/10/07/koh-tao-murders-accused-men-recant-confessions-tell-embassy-lawyer-they-were-tortured

A much closer look at this case needs to be conducted

Now that must be the understatement of the year.

Interesting development; according to Sanook news the public prosecutor on Samui has doubts about (at least part of) the story and evidence provided by the RTP, as he wont accept what's in the current 800-page report and just sent the entire case back to the police. So it's far from a shut case at this point.

Yeah, I just heard, if so thats awesome to begin with.

The BIB are looking more and more foolish in this awful ongoing saga

Interesting development; according to Sanook news the public prosecutor on Samui has doubts about (at least part of) the story and evidence provided by the RTP, as he wont accept what's in the current 800-page report and just sent the entire case back to the police. So it's far from a shut case at this point.

Yeah, I just heard, if so thats awesome to begin with.

A faulty case to begin with and too much exposure now on the international seen..especially with the suspects presumably admitting under pressure (torture) Thai-authorities, you just bought yourself a mother-load of bad press and in danger of loosing complete ground.

This tragedy is probably yet another example of below illustration.

a couple of million baht and they will be free and sent back to Burma. Money here buys justice ??????